First up, there is only one servant in the parable. In v.44 Jesus said He would put the faithful servant in charge of His possessions if he remained faithful.
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Salvation loss. Is it possible?
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First up, there is only one servant in the parable. In v.44 Jesus said He would put the faithful servant in charge of His possessions if he remained faithful.
Hello Ron,
I could paste a mile of scripture also but it is a messy was to dialogue. This OP is about Luke 12:42-46. I believe that the parable is talking about just one servant who can either be rewarded or condemned depending upon his action.
How do you see the parable?
God bless,
Mick
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SeventyOne
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Right, and what's the opposite of being put in charge of someone's possessions? NOT being put in charge of their possessions.
And here's where you are inserting our works onto salvation. This is works salvation, a false gospel. Are those teaching a false gospel a faithful servant or an unfaithful one?
He says no such thing. Again, faithful = material rewards, unfaithful = no such rewards. If he's losing his salvation by unfaithfulness, then the opposite must show the gaining of salvation by faithfulness, but that's not the comparison. You make no sense when you jumble it up this way.
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Amen, if unfaithful he will NOT be put in charge of Jesus possessions but assigned a place with the unbelievers ... isn't that NOT being put in charge of possessions?
You say that continuing in repentance to remain saved is works salvation. Let's see what the Bible says -
In Luk_13:3, the word "repent" is Present Subjunctive, meaning that Jesus said unless we <u>continue</u> in repentance we will perish. So, here is a question, "Does a Christian need to continue in repentance to be saved and not perish?"
There are only two possible answers -
If you believe Jesus and say "Yes" then your belief in Once Saved is wrong.
If you say "No" then you believe that Jesus is wrong.
It must be one way or the other.
What do you say?
God bless,
Mick
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RESPONSE TO POST #362:
Luke 12 (NASB) ...Jesus' Parables on "BELIEVERS"... "Be in Readiness"
PARABLE ONE: THE "GOOD SLAVES" ARE TRUE BELIEVERS
35 “Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit.
36 Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast,
so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks.
37 Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes;
truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and
have them recline at the table, and
will come up and wait on them.
38 Whether he comes in the [p]second watch, or even in the [q]third, and finds them so,
blessed are those slaves.
PARABLE TWO: THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS WILL COME UNEXPECTEDLY
39 “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming,
he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
40 You too, be ready;
for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.”
41 Peter said,
“Lord, are You addressing this parable (#two) to us, (TRUE BELIEVERS)
OR to everyone else as well?”(UN-BELIEVERS)
42 And the Lord said,
“Who then is the faithful and sensible steward,(TRUE BELIEVER)
whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.(see VERSE 48B!)
45 BUT if that slave says in his heart,(SPIRIT)
‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will
cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,(WILLFUL SINNING AFTER SALVATION)
48 but the one who did not know it (GOD'S WILL), and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few (LASHES).(LESSOR CHASTISEMENT)
48b From everyone (BELIEVERS ONLY) who has been given much, much will be required;
and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
"LASHES" ARE NOT LOSS OF SALVATION!
Hebrews 12:6
For those whom the Lord loves (BELIEVERS) He DISCIPLINES, And He scourges (lashes) every son whom He receives.”
"a place with the unbelievers" IS NOT LOSS OF SALVATION!
It is a loss of FELLOWSHIP restorable by confession. 1 John 1
Luke 12 (NASB) ...Jesus' Parables on "BELIEVERS"... "Be in Readiness"
PARABLE ONE: THE "GOOD SLAVES" ARE TRUE BELIEVERS
35 “Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit.
36 Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast,
so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks.
37 Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes;
truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and
have them recline at the table, and
will come up and wait on them.
38 Whether he comes in the [p]second watch, or even in the [q]third, and finds them so,
blessed are those slaves.
PARABLE TWO: THE SECOND COMING OF JESUS WILL COME UNEXPECTEDLY
39 “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming,
he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
40 You too, be ready;
for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect.”
41 Peter said,
“Lord, are You addressing this parable (#two) to us, (TRUE BELIEVERS)
OR to everyone else as well?”(UN-BELIEVERS)
42 And the Lord said,
“Who then is the faithful and sensible steward,(TRUE BELIEVER)
whom his master will put in charge of his servants, to give them their rations at the proper time?
43 Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
44 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.(see VERSE 48B!)
45 BUT if that slave says in his heart,(SPIRIT)
‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; 46 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will
cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes,(WILLFUL SINNING AFTER SALVATION)
48 but the one who did not know it (GOD'S WILL), and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few (LASHES).(LESSOR CHASTISEMENT)
48b From everyone (BELIEVERS ONLY) who has been given much, much will be required;
and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.
"LASHES" ARE NOT LOSS OF SALVATION!
Hebrews 12:6
For those whom the Lord loves (BELIEVERS) He DISCIPLINES, And He scourges (lashes) every son whom He receives.”
"a place with the unbelievers" IS NOT LOSS OF SALVATION!
It is a loss of FELLOWSHIP restorable by confession. 1 John 1
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Hello Ron,
I have about 30 commentaries and there are many more online and I am yet to find one which interprets as you do. They all say that it is about Jesus returning to reward or condemn - Faithful believers will be rewarded and the unfaithful condemned. When He returns there will be no disciplining believers with lashes, as you suggest. The time of discipline will be over. It is quite outrageous to say that believers will be cut to pieces - Rom. 8:1 tells us that there is no condemnation for those in Christ.
1 John 1 tells us that we have fellowship as we walk in the light and, I agree, we lose fellowship if we go into sin. But, when we get into sin, we not only lose fellowship with Jesus, we begin to fellowship with the devil. 1 John 3:10 tells us who are the children of the Devil and who are children of God - anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God but a child of the devil.
I agree that confession restores fellowship with the Lord but sin is fellowship with the Devil.
In Luk_13:3, Jesus said, "Repent or perish", and "repent" is Present Tense meaning that we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish.
God bless,
Mick[/QUOTE]
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- Sep 22, 2015
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"cut him in pieces" is another metaphor/allegory...like "lashes"...mental chastisement, not physical abuse or death. A good "Master" would never never kill nor abuse a faithful servant who hypothetically and temporarily went astray...out of the will of the "Master" = God.
The moral of both parables:
"48b From everyone (BELIEVERS ONLY) who has been given much, much will be required;
and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more."
God entrusts nothing to UN-BELIEVERS who have rejected Him.
They are not God's slaves/servants.
RE: In Luke 13, Jesus said, "Repent or perish", and "repent" is Present Tense meaning that we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish.
A snippet taken out of context and MISS-interpreted!
Repent/Repentance is a new subject and off point from your focus on the OP and the Parables at hand.
Do want to go there?
The moral of both parables:
"48b From everyone (BELIEVERS ONLY) who has been given much, much will be required;
and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more."
God entrusts nothing to UN-BELIEVERS who have rejected Him.
They are not God's slaves/servants.
RE: In Luke 13, Jesus said, "Repent or perish", and "repent" is Present Tense meaning that we must continue in repentance otherwise we will perish.
A snippet taken out of context and MISS-interpreted!
Repent/Repentance is a new subject and off point from your focus on the OP and the Parables at hand.
Do want to go there?
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Hello Ron,
So you believe that when Jesus returns He will be disciplining some believers despite Rom. 8:1 telling us there is no, note no, condemnation for those in Christ. I mentioned that I had some 30 commentaries, with more online, and none go within a country mile of your interpretation.
Who has heard of Jesus returning to discipline some believers?
Who believes that being assigned a place with unbelievers is anything less than the lake of fire?
If you could show me just one commentary that supports your interpretation then I would be surprised.
Exactly, "God entrusts nothing to UN-BELIEVERS". If you check out the parable there is only one servant being spoken of and Jesus entrusts things to him so obviously, and by your reckoning, that servant is a believer. Jesus said He would reward that servant if he remained faithful but would condemn that same servant if he went astray.
One faithful, believing servant, two possible outcomes.
God bless,
Mick
So you believe that when Jesus returns He will be disciplining some believers despite Rom. 8:1 telling us there is no, note no, condemnation for those in Christ. I mentioned that I had some 30 commentaries, with more online, and none go within a country mile of your interpretation.
Who has heard of Jesus returning to discipline some believers?
Who believes that being assigned a place with unbelievers is anything less than the lake of fire?
If you could show me just one commentary that supports your interpretation then I would be surprised.
Exactly, "God entrusts nothing to UN-BELIEVERS". If you check out the parable there is only one servant being spoken of and Jesus entrusts things to him so obviously, and by your reckoning, that servant is a believer. Jesus said He would reward that servant if he remained faithful but would condemn that same servant if he went astray.
One faithful, believing servant, two possible outcomes.
God bless,
Mick
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SeventyOne
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What do I say? I say this is just another thread teaching the works salvation lie. Just another one of those whose sole purpose seems to be to seek to kill the steadfastness of true believers, to attempt to sow doubt and destroy faith. That's what I say.
This teaching is an enemy of the cross. I truly can't wait until the day comes that such things are wiped away forever.
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Response to Post #349: " he would be either rewarded for faithfulness or condemned for unfaithfulness."
Do you think the parable refers to the Second Coming of Christ? Judgment Seat of Christ and judging of Believer's works?
Nowhere does Luke 12 state that a servant/believer will be eternally "condemned" for sinning. Romans 8 states the contrary! Believers are forgiven for sinning. 1 John 1.
NEW ISSUE INTRODUCED: Was Judas I. a true believer who is now in the heavenly realms?
Do you now want to discuss that issue?
Do you think the parable refers to the Second Coming of Christ? Judgment Seat of Christ and judging of Believer's works?
Nowhere does Luke 12 state that a servant/believer will be eternally "condemned" for sinning. Romans 8 states the contrary! Believers are forgiven for sinning. 1 John 1.
NEW ISSUE INTRODUCED: Was Judas I. a true believer who is now in the heavenly realms?
Do you now want to discuss that issue?
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Let's keep away from the rabbit trails and deal with the simple parable Jesus has given us.
I can only ask, "Where is the place that unbelievers are sent to?" This is very basic stuff Ron.
Compare Luke with Matt. 24:51 which tells us: "He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Where is the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth? It is called the "outer darkness" in Matt. 22:13.
God bless,
Mick
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"assign him a place with the unbelievers." is NOT the same as spiritually judged and sentenced to the eternal "lake of fire". Revelation 20.
Jesus ate with unbelievers / Gentiles who were not allowed in Temple.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Jesus ate with unbelievers / Gentiles who were not allowed in Temple.
Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire compassion, and not sacrifice,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
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If you can't see that being assigned a place with unbelievers and hypocrites in the outer darkness, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, means hell then I can't really say much more.
Why don't we leave it at that Ron?
God bless,
Mick
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