Salvation Cannot be Lost

[Daniel C]

In the same passage where he's talking about giving eternal life, in John 10, the verse that the OP is basing his whole doctrine on, Jesus is using parables and metaphors and calling people sheep. You really want to stick with the Shakey ground you are trying to stand on?

Different conversation renniks,you are talking with me now ..........hello!!!




And hardly shakey ground. The Bible is a doctrine of eternal security. Here's John 11

''25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?''

 

[JLB777]

This isn't exactly spiritual rocket surgery. Unless a person has grieved the Holy Spirit somewhere along the way.

I asked a simple question.

Do you know the answer?

The question comes from a statement Jesus made.


For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Matthew 13:12


So here is the question again.


What is it a person must have, in order for more to be given?

JLB

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

What is it a person must have, in order for more to be given?

Obedient Joyful Continuing Faith, instead of disobedient, grumbling, on/off, unbelief.

 

[JLB777]

So you can add lying to your resume, eh? You know very well what I said about the mark of the beast.

Yes I do know very well.

Because it was in an open debate between you and I where I asked you very specifically...

Are born again Christians who take the mark of the beast still saved?


You answered very arrogantly, YES!



JLB

 

[Daniel C]

Are born again Christians who take the mark of the beast still saved?

JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

That totally ignores what Jesus and Paul said... you didn't address it at all? Yes, Jesus said whoever believes in him will not perish.

You tell Daniel C that he ignores what Jesus said. Yet then you MISQUOTE what Jesus said in John 10:28. Um, what do we call that? Oh, yeah, hypocrite.

Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish.

Not whoever once believed.

That's it. Just go ahead and twist Scripture as much as you want.

What you're implying is that Jesus said this:

"I give eternal life to those who continue to believe, and IF or AS LONG AS they continue to believe, they shall never perish".

But He NEVER said what you fantasize about what He said. There are NO CONDITIONS for recipients to meet in order to never perish.

He says those who don't remain in him will be broken off, the metaphor of branches isn't hard to understand.

Sure. In a different context, with farming metaphors, He taught that those who don't stay in fellowship will be excluded from service.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked a simple question.

Do you know the answer?

lol. Daniel C asked you a simple question, but you haven't answered it yet.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"So you can add lying to your resume, eh? You know very well what I said about the mark of the beast."

Yes I do know very well.

That's right. And that's WHY you are a liar, for the fallacious statement you made earlier.

Because it was in an open debate between you and I where I asked you very specifically...

Are born again Christians who take the mark of the beast still saved?


You answered very arrogantly, YES!

Prove it, false accuser. I specifically explained WHY no believers would take the mark.

I know full well that those who take the mark of the beast will be condemned to the lake of fire. So, obviously that cannot include any believers, since Jesus said recipients of eternal life (that would be all who have believed) shall never perish.

But for some some strange reason, you seem completely unaware of the fact that your man made theology is in direct conflict with what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life.

You have made it quite clear that recipients of eternal life CAN and DO perish.

 

[His student]

If one cannot lose salvation for lies or theft, why would he lose it for taking the mark of the beast?

It seems that not only have you lost your ability to think through questions like this logically - others who hold your position on eternal security have as well.

It's amazing to me that someone would call this silly question a "winner" when the answer to the question posed is so obvious.

Shallow thinking runs in packs it seems - or at least it seems to rub off.

Ready now? Here we go. Put your thinking cap on you guys.

Answer? (Wait for it.............)
If a born again believer cannot lose salvation for lies or theft (or for any other reason as I believe) then he would not take the Mark of the Beast.

I know - it's a heavy thinking lift.

Chew on it for a while before you make a fool of yourselves again.

If there is a rapture of the church by the way, (not that that is the only reason they might not be here to take the mark), born again believers may well be waving at you from a cloud if what I fear about you works salvation types comes to pass and you are left behind with the rest of those who are not yet justified through faith.

The good news is - it won't be too late to trust in Jesus (unless you take the Mark of the Beast - let the reader beware). The bad news is - it'll be a tough row to hoe after you miss the bus.

 

[His student]

I asked a simple question.
Do you know the answer?

So here is the question again. What is it a person must have, in order for more to be given?

His student said: ↑

This isn't exactly spiritual rocket surgery. Unless a person has grieved the Holy Spirit somewhere along the way.
The answer is what follows in the same post you found the above red words in. In that post I tell you in great detail what a person must have in order for more knowledge and wisdom to be given when considering a doctrine like this.

Perhaps I'm going into too much logic and detail for you guys in these posts.

Here's a much more simple answer for you. I hope you won't be too offended if I paraphrase my former answer quite bluntly in order for you to digest it better. (Honestly - I don't know how to say it more clear than I have before except with what follows here.)

Get your supposedly Spirit assisted head out of your armpit and look at the issue of eternal security vis a vis the warnings about judgment of the sins of believers in a proper theologically systematic way with a view to reconciling the apparent contradictions posed in this doctrine rather than simply picking your favorite side of the issue.

My first post a few pages back here, to which silly Phil took exception, addressed the proper way to reconcile the two sides of the dilemma posed with this doctrine.

I'm being very patient with you guys since it's quite possible that we are brothers in spite of your misunderstanding of the basics of the faith.

All of you guys can benefit from taking the time to go back slowly through all of my posts from that first one on (from page 28 or so) and think real hard about the things I said along the way.

 

[renniks]

Different conversation renniks,you are talking with me now ..........hello!!!




And hardly shakey ground. The Bible is a doctrine of eternal security. Here's John 11

''25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?''

Yes, notice the condition of belief. Not just belief, but living belief. I never push works salvation. Real faith will produce results, but salvation is conditional on continuing faith, not works

 

[renniks]

You tell Daniel C that he ignores what Jesus said. Yet then you MISQUOTE what Jesus said in John 10:28. Um, what do we call that? Oh, yeah, hypocrite.

Umm...I wasn't quoting John 10:28 here.?

 

[renniks]

What you're implying is that Jesus said this:

"I give eternal life to those who continue to believe, and IF or AS LONG AS they continue to believe, they shall never perish".

Who was he giving eternal life to? His sheep, (oh,no, another farming metaphor!), Who are defined as those who listen to and follow him, not those who once upon a Time did.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Those with a works based gospel do not understand salvation by grace.
that is why they worry about losing the false works-based ,dead religions

 

[His student]

Howdy!
To answer your question a born again Christian cannot take the mark of the beast,it's impossible:
mark 13:22
''For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.'' Hope that helps.

Helps a lot.
Thanks!

 

[JLB777]

I asked:
"The only real question is this:

Can a recipient of eternal life perish?

What say you?"

Will you die some day?



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Howdy!

To answer your question a born again Christian cannot take the mark of the beast,it's impossible:

mark 13:22
''For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.''

Hope that helps.

No, doesn’t come close.

No mention of the mark of the beast in this scripture.


JLB

 

[JLB777]

His student said: ↑

This isn't exactly spiritual rocket surgery. Unless a person has grieved the Holy Spirit somewhere along the way.

Yes I read that the first time, which is why I asked the question again.

This isn’t an answer, nor does it answer my question.


The answer is found in the parable Jesus explained to His disciples.


Last time -

What is it a person must have in order to be given more?


JLB

 

[renniks]

Those with a works based gospel do not understand salvation by grace.
that is why they worry about losing the false works-based ,dead religions

Where does scripture say that a former believer is still saved? Not works, continuing faith is necessary for salvation. There's plenty of warnings about falling into disbelief.

 

[His student]

Phil, yeshuaslavejeff, renniks, JBL et al - I'd be happy to take you through an abbreviated phase of one of my basic systematic theology classes on this subject that one takes in a Protestant seminary - first term.

No charge. we could do it right here.

It would require a certain amount of humility of course as we'd have to approach it as if you were a beginner in theology and not someone who has done a lot of posting of opinion online.

If you are willing to approach the subject of eternal security vis a vis the judgment of believers from the beginning it would benefit you greatly as you all seem to have missed some rather basic concepts in your rush to get involved in forums like this one.

Seriously - this is a great chance for you to get some basic seminary teaching free of charge.

All it will cost is a bit of humility and, since no one knows your true identity online, there's nothing to be lost really.