Salvation can never be lost

[pantingdeer]

Hi @Andrew98

Person A would not go to heaven. They have shown with their behaviour that they have not known Him or His ways.

Person B would not go to heaven. If they deny the Son and the Father before the face of others, they will be denied on Judgement Day.

Salvation is a gift and its precious. You cannot play about with it, ignore it or desecrate it without repercussion. Thise who won't are those who fear God. And fearing God is the start of wisdom.

I hope that helps in some way.

Love & Shalom

Can you please quote the scripture that states that Jesus would never have never known this man

 

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Maybe I wasn’t clear, sorry. You are misquoting the scripture. It does not say the demons believe in Jesus and shudder. It says the demons believe God is one. This is something Muslims also believe. Neither demons nor Muslims are saved because they don’t believe on Jesus for what he did on the cross.

May I ask what translation you are using so I can reference it?

 

[pantingdeer]

Some look at salvation as a get out of jail free card.

Grace does not give one license to sin. Why are we to work out our salvation with fear and trembling? We are asked to pick up our cross and follow Him.

I completely agree we should pick up our cross and follow Him but where does it say that failure to do such works means we are not saved?

 

[pantingdeer]

May I ask what translation you are using so I can reference it?

I was using KJV but they all say the same thing. I checked to make sure.

 

[charsan]

I completely agree we should pick up our cross and follow Him but where does it say that failure to do such works means we are not saved?

Luke 9:23 and Philippians 2:12. Believing on Christ is just he start not the whole thing and the Church has understood this from the beginning, that is why it is good not to solely rely on Scripture but also look up what the Church believed in harmony with Scripture. Scripture was not written to act as the only thing there is to go by indeed St. Paul says in part "But if I delay, this letter will let you know how we should conduct ourselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." 1 Tim 3:15

 

[eleos1954]

I understand your point about plucking out verses but it is a recurrent message e.g Acts 16:31.
Before I met this person the other day I would have 100% said that man A and man B both were never truly saved. This person and the YouTube channel I mention wholeheartedly believe Salvation is a gift from God from believing on Jesus alone and that is it. They believe the gift is eternal i.e. ours forever, from the moment we believe, taking the verses literally. It makes me wonder if they’re right because for all the verses that mention works they have an explanation.

It doesn't make logical sense nor biblical sense. Just because someone says they believe they automatically get their passport to heaven?

We always have choice (saved or not) one can walk away from God anytime they want to and if they choose to walk away they very well can forfeit their salvation.

Believing means learning and accepting all of Jesus’ teachings

More to "believing" than just "believing"

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

We learn and follow the Lamb ... for the rest of our days.

 

[pantingdeer]

Luke 9:23 and Philippians 2:12. Believing on Christ is just he start not the whole thing and the Church has understood this from the beginning, that is why it is good not to solely rely on Scripture but also look up what the Church believed in harmony with Scripture. Scripture was not written to act as the only thing there is to go by indeed St. Paul says in part "But if I delay, this letter will let you know how we should conduct ourselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth." 1 Tim 3:15

In that verse you quotes Paul says to use his letter to know how to conduct ourselves. It doesn’t say conduct yourselves according to the church.

 

[charsan]

In that verse you quotes Paul says to use his letter to know how to conduct ourselves. It doesn’t say conduct yourselves according to the church.

No, the verse specifically tells Timothy that it is that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth you will never find that we are to use Scripture only

 

[pantingdeer]

It doesn't make logical sense nor biblical sense. Just because someone says they believe they automatically get their passport to heaven?

We always have choice (saved or not) one can walk away from God anytime they want to and if they choose to walk away they very well can forfeit their salvation.

Believing means learning and accepting all of Jesus’ teachings

More to "believing" than just "believing"

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

We learn and follow the Lamb ... for the rest of our days.

Just because it doesn’t seem right doesn’t make it not true though. Those verses say believing is all that is needed to be saved. If we can never be good enough on our own accord to enter heaven isn’t it our faith in Jesus the only thing that can save us? If our sins are now paid through believing on Him then what more can we do? Are we relying on ourselves to enter heaven or on Jesus?

 

[pantingdeer]

It doesn't make logical sense nor biblical sense. Just because someone says they believe they automatically get their passport to heaven?

We always have choice (saved or not) one can walk away from God anytime they want to and if they choose to walk away they very well can forfeit their salvation.

Believing means learning and accepting all of Jesus’ teachings

More to "believing" than just "believing"

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps.

We learn and follow the Lamb ... for the rest of our days.

I am undecided in my mind. I don’t know. What this YouTube channel “Good Hope” says goes against everything I ever thought but he backs it up with scripture and explains verses that initially seem to suggest works are required.
I suggest having a look at some of his videos. Maybe you’ll be able to see if he’s going wrong somewhere.

 

[pantingdeer]

No, the verse specifically tells Timothy that it is that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth you will never find that we are to use Scripture only

So I should follow what man does and not what the Bible says?

 

[eleos1954]

I am undecided in my mind. I don’t know. What this YouTube channel “Good Hope” says goes against everything I ever thought but he backs it up with scripture and explains verses that initially seem to suggest works are required.
I suggest having a look at some of his videos. Maybe you’ll be able to see if he’s going wrong somewhere.

Regardless where one might receive teaching .... compare it yourself with His word .... like I said ... people can and do ... take scripture and skew it to mean what they want it to mean .... rather than what it really means .... know what I mean? LOL

Scripture studying yourself is the only way you will know for sure.

 

[charsan]

So I should follow what man does and not what the Bible says?

The Church was founded by Christ, it was man that split it up. Essentially by doing what you are you are listening to man not God or the Bible. YouTube is not the place you should get your information but you should get your information from a Church, the Early Church Fathers, and Scripture.

 

[pantingdeer]

Regardless where one might receive teaching .... compare it yourself with His word .... like I said ... people can and do ... take scripture and skew it to mean what they want it to mean .... rather than what it really means .... know what I mean? LOL

Scripture studying yourself is the only way you will know for sure.

I agree 100% with what you say. I don’t trust anyone anymore, especially if they don’t quote verses. But please do check his channel out. He backs everything with scripture and feels very convinced in his faith. He preaches in prisons too.

 

[eleos1954]

I agree 100% with what you say. I don’t trust anyone anymore, especially if they don’t quote verses. But please do check his channel out. He backs everything with scripture and feels very convinced in his faith. He preaches in prisons too.

I have limited internet and don't do videos for the most part.

 

[charsan]

I don’t trust anyone anymore, especially if they don’t quote verses.

Anyone can make verses say what they want, going by someone who quotes verses is not reliable

 

[TzephanYahu]

Can you please quote the scripture that states that Jesus would never have never known this man

I hope you don't misubderstand. I mean person A would have never known the Messiah if he didn't follow His ways.

If you want scripture references, here you go: 1 John 2:3-6. Matthew 7:21-23.

In short, loving Him and knowing Him means keeping His ways, being obedient and not just paying Him lip service or telying on a prayer you made years ago but having nothing after. Hopefully that makes sense.

Love & Shalom

 

[pantingdeer]

I have limited internet and don't do videos for the most part.

Fair enough.

 

[pantingdeer]

Anyone can make verses say what they want, going by someone who quotes verses is not reliable

Of course. This person explains in details. Do see some of his videos of you can. I think they are quite good.

 

[charsan]

Of course. This person explains in details. Do see some of his videos of you can. I think they are quite good.

Sorry I rely on my Church not some YouTube yahoo. Really I can't believe this new generation YouTube should never be a first source of information. Do you know his credentials? Is he ordained? Don't trust YouTube personalities but research and not on a forum but study what the early Church taught, study to show yourself approved before the Lord.

I am not trying to be mean, it's frustrating to try to help someone and get shoot down because it's not what they want to hear.