Salvation can never be lost

[pantingdeer]

Hypothetical:

Suppose a man hears the gospel, believes in it 100% and that day asks Jesus to be his saviour.

A) What if later in his life this same man commits adultery 20 times, rapes 100 people and murders 20 people and then kills himself.

B) what if the man did not do the above but 50 years later he denies Jesus as his saviour and converts to another religion

God cannot lie and in John 3:16, Jesus says that the man will not perish but will have everlasting life.

Does that mean the man in both circumstances will die and go to heaven?

 

[charsan]

Hypothetical:

Suppose a man hears the gospel, believes in it 100% and that day asks Jesus to be his saviour.

A) What if later in his life this same man commits adultery 20 times, rapes 100 people and murders 20 people and then kills himself.

B) what if the man did not do the above but 50 years later he denies Jesus as his saviour and converts to another religion

God cannot lie and in John 3:16, Jesus says that the man will not perish but will have everlasting life.

Does that mean the man in both circumstances will die and go to heaven?

As St. Paul says the man has to run the race and finish the fight. If this hypothetical man did this and was truly saved before he lost that free gift and unrepentant and hatred in his heart would damn himself to hell

 

[Basil the Great]

For what it is worth, this doctrine known as "once saved, always saved", was not held to by the Early Church. To the contrary, the Early Church was so concerned with grave/mortal sins, that there was even a rule at one time for a 10 year ban on receiving the Eucharist for a man who accidentally killed another man in a fight.

As to your question, only God knows for certain, but Jesus' warning in Matthew would seem to indicate that many will call him 'Lord' and yet still not be saved!

 

[Hammster]

Hypotheticals are difficult because they are hypothetical. I would argue that the man was never saved. Faith, in scripture, is paired with obedience. Our Father requires it. We are told that we (those in Christ) will be conformed to the image of Christ. We are told that we will be pruned to bear more fruit. We are told that the Father disciplines His children.

So it is hard to grasp that the person was saved, outside of some trauma that caused a mental break.

 

[pantingdeer]

Hypotheticals are difficult because they are hypothetical. I would argue that the man was never saved. Faith, in scripture, is paired with obedience. Our Father requires it. We are told that we (those in Christ) will be conformed to the image of Christ. We are told that we will be pruned to bear more fruit. We are told that the Father disciplines His children.

So it is hard to grasp that the person was saved, outside of some trauma that caused a mental break.

Obedience is not required. John 3 16. God cannot lie.

 

[pantingdeer]

Hypotheticals are difficult because they are hypothetical. I would argue that the man was never saved. Faith, in scripture, is paired with obedience. Our Father requires it. We are told that we (those in Christ) will be conformed to the image of Christ. We are told that we will be pruned to bear more fruit. We are told that the Father disciplines His children.

So it is hard to grasp that the person was saved, outside of some trauma that caused a mental break.

The hypothetical is difficult as I made it difficult because I don’t undertsand.

 

[Hammster]

Obedience is not required. John 3 16. God cannot lie.

Okay.

 

[pantingdeer]

For what it is worth, this doctrine known as "once saved, always saved", was not held to by the Early Church. To the contrary, the Early Church was so concerned with grave/mortal sins, that there was even a rule at one time for a 10 year ban on receiving the Eucharist for a man who accidentally killed another man in a fight.

As to your question, only God knows for certain, but Jesus' warning in Matthew would seem to indicate that many will call him 'Lord' and yet still not be saved!

Yes but in Matthew 7:23 Jesus said “I NEVER knew you” and so that does not describe the man I mention who previously believed in Jesus as his saviour. In Matthew 7:21 he says “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven” and the will of the Father is stated in John 6:40 “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

So the man I described did the will of the Father, which was to believe.

 

[charsan]

Yet it is not up to us to determine who is saved and who is not, only God can do that.

 

[pantingdeer]

For what it is worth, this doctrine known as "once saved, always saved", was not held to by the Early Church. To the contrary, the Early Church was so concerned with grave/mortal sins, that there was even a rule at one time for a 10 year ban on receiving the Eucharist for a man who accidentally killed another man in a fight.

As to your question, only God knows for certain, but Jesus' warning in Matthew would seem to indicate that many will call him 'Lord' and yet still not be saved!

I am not concerned about what the church believed but what the Bible says. Is this man eternally saved? I don’t understand as so many people have different takes.

 

[Hammster]

I am not concerned about what the church believed but what the Bible says. Is this man eternally saved? I don’t understand as so many people have different takes.

What man? It’s a hypothetical.

 

[pantingdeer]

Yet it is not up to us to determine who is saved and who is not, only God can do that.

Is scripture not clear? How can one know if one is saved?

 

[pantingdeer]

What man? It’s a hypothetical.

There’s nothing wrong with a hypothetical. The answer is either yes or no. And for the record, I’m not trying to be cunning and catch people out - some people on YouTube say one thing and some people say the other. There must be an answer.

 

[Hammster]

There’s nothing wrong with a hypothetical. The answer is either yes or no. And for the record, I’m not trying to be cunning and catch people out - some people on YouTube say one thing and some people say the other. There must be an answer.

Except when I gave you an answer you said I was wrong. You didn’t ask for me to elaborate or explain. You just cited a verse. So I have no idea what you’re looking for since you seem to already have the answer you want.

 

[Lucke]

Yet it is not up to us to determine who is saved and who is not, only God can do that.

Yes, God know, obey the Word of Christ

 

[charsan]

Is scripture not clear? How can one know if one is saved?

No, there is nothing there to say you can judge another persons Salvation, that is why going by the Bible alone is a fallacy because going by the Bible alone you can make up anything. Like others said this is not a real world example and we could say all day this or that would be the man's fate but it would just be hypothetical.

 

[d taylor]

Once a person believes in The Messiah for the free gift of Gods Eternal Life they have it never to lose it.

 

[pantingdeer]

Except when I gave you an answer you said I was wrong. You didn’t ask for me to elaborate or explain. You just cited a verse. So I have no idea what you’re looking for since you seem to already have the answer you want.

I just want to get to the truth. Sorry.

I don’t think I am saved. I was brought up around the “once saved always saved” idea but it only applied if you were ‘truly saved’. I met someone online who said that works mean nothing and salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. I agreed with this but then he said that no matter what you do after being saved it does not matter as you have been saved through your faith. This disagreed with what I was taught when I grew up as I would have put this type of individual under the ‘never truly saved’ category.
So I do a lot of YouTube watching and I come across this channel called “Good hope” and his videos defend all of the views of the individual I met online. This made me really curious as he defends all the views through scripture so it appears that no matter what you do after being saved it does not affect your salvation.

Although the scriptures he explains to defend his view it just doesn’t seem right to be because of situations like I mentioned. What if someone truly believes and asks Jesus to be their Lord and saviour and then later denies Jesus as their saviour.

By what Good Hope says the man is still saved as it is by faith alone and anything else is works. But it’s hard to accept as the man later denies Jesus.

 

[Lazarus Short]

From First Corinthians 4:5, and I think it bears on the subject:

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God." - KJV

 

[Hammster]

I just want to get to the truth. Sorry.

I don’t think I am saved. I was brought up around the “once saved always saved” idea but it only applied if you were ‘truly saved’. I met someone online who said that works mean nothing and salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone. I agreed with this but then he said that no matter what you do after being saved it does not matter as you have been saved through your faith. This disagreed with what I was taught when I grew up as I would have put this type of individual under the ‘never truly saved’ category.
So I do a lot of YouTube watching and I come across this channel called “Good hope” and his videos defend all of the views of the individual I met online. This made me really curious as he defends all the views through scripture so it appears that no matter what you do after being saved it does not affect your salvation.

Although the scriptures he explains to defend his view it just doesn’t seem right to be because of situations like I mentioned. What if someone truly believes and asks Jesus to be their Lord and saviour and then later denies Jesus as their saviour.

By what Good Hope says the man is still saved as it is by faith alone and anything else is works. But it’s hard to accept as the man later denies Jesus.

We are justified (made righteous) by faith. That’s the truth. But like I said, faith is paired with obedience.


Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
— 1 Peter 1:1-2

It doesn’t appear that the hypothetical man is obedient. There’s no repentance, and good works. But again, hard to tell exactly what’s happening because it’s hypothetical.