Salvation before Jesus

[Duvduv]

According to the narrative of all self-identified Christian denominations there was no Jesus before the first century AD, with the assumption that Christianity existed in the first century, long before the days of Constantine and Eusebius. So naturally the question arises: what was the salvation for human beings (including Jews) for all the millennia before he arrived? Where was the grace and atonement for mankind to be saved from eternal damnation before the year 33 AD?! In addition, since it took quite a while for the world to know about his salvation, what happened to mankind who never heard about him even AFTER he was in the first century?

 

[Call me Nic]

Salvation has always been the same: faith in the Lord God.

Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8, 1 Peter 1:19-20). Just like I'm saved by faith on Jesus Christ, Abraham was saved because he believed (or had faith) in God (Romans 4:2-3, Romans 4:9). Salvation has always been achieved the same way: by calling upon the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13), and men were calling upon the name of the Lord since Genesis Chapter 4 (Genesis 4:26). So, salvation has always been the same according to the Bible, it's always been faith.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

According to the narrative of all self-identified Christian denominations there was no Jesus before the first century AD, with the assumption that Christianity existed in the first century, long before the days of Constantine and Eusebius. So naturally the question arises: what was the salvation for human beings (including Jews) for all the millennia before he arrived? Where was the grace and atonement for mankind to be saved from eternal damnation before the year 33 AD?! In addition, since it took quite a while for the world to know about his salvation, what happened to mankind who never heard about him even AFTER he was in the first century?

He existed with The Father before the 1st Century... John 1:1-18
Behold the lamb... John 1:29
...who was slain before the foundation of the world... Revelation 13:8
Revelation 20:11-13

His death was for all...past, present and future...

Who will not fear and glorify your name? For you alone are holy. All the nations will come and worship before you.

 

[dreadnought]

According to the narrative of all self-identified Christian denominations there was no Jesus before the first century AD, with the assumption that Christianity existed in the first century, long before the days of Constantine and Eusebius. So naturally the question arises: what was the salvation for human beings (including Jews) for all the millennia before he arrived? Where was the grace and atonement for mankind to be saved from eternal damnation before the year 33 AD?! In addition, since it took quite a while for the world to know about his salvation, what happened to mankind who never heard about him even AFTER he was in the first century?

People who don't think God could save people before the arrival of Jesus don't have much respect for his abilities.

 

[Duvduv]

The point is faith in God worked before 33 AD, so logically it can work after 33AD. I have asked this question for years and never got a logical answer to it!
Besides, he wasntw slaughtered like an animal that is sacrificed so the metaphor doesn't fit, especially since the atonement animal on Yom Kippur was a goat.

 

[Serving Zion]

According to the narrative of all self-identified Christian denominations there was no Jesus before the first century AD, with the assumption that Christianity existed in the first century, long before the days of Constantine and Eusebius. So naturally the question arises: what was the salvation for human beings (including Jews) for all the millennia before he arrived? Where was the grace and atonement for mankind to be saved from eternal damnation before the year 33 AD?! In addition, since it took quite a while for the world to know about his salvation, what happened to mankind who never heard about him even AFTER he was in the first century?

We should begin by establishing common understanding of what you mean when you use the expression "salvation".

.. does it mean to pass the judgement of God?

And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this judgment,
Hebrews 9:27

“That slave who knew his master’s will but did not prepare or act according to his desire will be harshly whipped. But the one who did not know and did things worthy of a beating will be whipped lightly. From everyone given much, much will be required; and from the one for whom more is provided, all the more they will ask of him.
Luke 12:47-48

 

[Tayla]

what was the salvation for human beings (including Jews) for all the millennia before he arrived?

The righteous were safely in Abraham's bosom. After his death, Jesus went to them and took them to the same place that the redeemed afterward and since go to.

 

[Tayla]

Where was the grace and atonement for mankind to be saved from eternal damnation before the year 33 AD?!

Jesus provided this by his incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection.

 

[Tayla]

In addition, since it took quite a while for the world to know about his salvation, what happened to mankind who never heard about him even AFTER he was in the first century?

In my view, everyone gets a chance to choose to accept or reject Christ's offer of salvation through his grace. The only time this could occur for people who never hear the gospel, or who hear it incorrectly, is just at their death, as part of the death process. Probably this occurs with their soul encountering Christ at this time.

 

[hedrick]

The point is faith in God worked before 33 AD, so logically it can work after 33AD. I have asked this question for years and never got a logical answer to it!
Besides, he wasntw slaughtered like an animal that is sacrificed so the metaphor doesn't fit, especially since the atonement animal on Yom Kippur was a goat.

I agree that logically it can. The different however is that the Logos has now appeared in flesh. That forces a decision that people before him didn't have. In principle rejecting Christ rejects God.

However in practice things aren't the simple. There are people who for one reason or another haven't heard or heard in a convincing fashion. So that means that even though accepting Christ in principle should be a requirement, we have to leave judgement to God.

 

[Sanoy]

The sin offering in Leviticus 4 was for unintentional sin. The priest, on behalf of himself or the Israelite congregation, would take a Bull and lay hands on it transferring their sin to it. There were two parts to this sacrifice, the faith of the person that brings the bull, and the bull to receive ones sins. Without either of these two, there is no forgiveness of sin. Leviticus 17:11 says "for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life." So without the sacrifice sin is still present. Faith is enough to do well in this life, but it is not enough for the next life.

There was not always a Temple to offer a bull, and faith prevailed during those times, but sin was not removed. When those people died they went to a better part of Sheol and awaited the Sacrifice of Christ to finish the work. Christs sacrifice is an even greater sacrifice than the one before and covers all sin for which one repents, not just accidental sin. Anyone who repents and puts their faith in Christ lays hands on Him, the perfect sacrifice.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The point is faith in God worked before 33 AD, so logically it can work after 33AD. I have asked this question for years and never got a logical answer to it!
Besides, he wasntw slaughtered like an animal that is sacrificed so the metaphor doesn't fit, especially since the atonement animal on Yom Kippur was a goat.

....actually, even though the death of Jesus reflects aspects of various sacrifices found from within the framework of the Law given at Mount Sinai after the Exodus, it is really the "Paschal Lamb" that Jesus' death MOST definitively and inherently reflects in its meaning and application, a sacrifice which forshadowed that of the Christ and was ordained before the giving of the Law to Moses.

 

[Duvduv]

Christians who rely so heavily on Sola Scripturum apparently have no source to explain how humanity mansged without before the appearance of Jesus in the first century and must rely on hypotheses.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Christians who rely so heavily on Sola Scripturum apparently have no source to explain how humanity mansged without before the appearance of Jesus in the first century and must rely on hypotheses.

Please explain this more fully in light of the responses you have gotten so far?

Making a blanket statement should have some examples of why you feel this way given that you have gotten responses.

Does this mean you reject that Jesus was the lamb slain BEFORE the foundation of the world?

Or do you reject scripture in general as an answer to theological questions? And if yes to this question, how do you make your theology choices or determine truth.

 

[Duvduv]

All I mean is that there is no scriptural explanation to describe salvation before Jesus appeared. And if one follows TULIP then one cannot explain the absence of Jesus since creation of totally depraved mankind.

 

[hedrick]

All I mean is that there is no scriptural explanation to describe salvation before Jesus appeared. And if one follows TULIP then one cannot explain the absence of Jesus since creation of totally depraved mankind.

Sure there is. First, there's the whole OT. Second, Paul's use of Abraham as a model for faith. Third Rom 3:25-26 says that he passed over what happened before, during his time of patient tolerance.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All I mean is that there is no scriptural explanation to describe salvation before Jesus appeared. And if one follows TULIP then one cannot explain the absence of Jesus since creation of totally depraved mankind.

You mentioned sola scriptura and now you mention those who follow TULIP.

You do know that most people who believe in sola scriptura do not necessarily believe in Calvinism(TULIP) and those who are Calvinists their are some 3 point, 4 point and 5 point Calvinists in that designation, right?

And that people that believe sola scriptura are not all any point (3, 4 or 5 point) Calvinists?

 

[Duvduv]

Either way, it comes out the same. There no scriptural explanation for the absence of Jesus before the first century.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

All I mean is that there is no scriptural explanation to describe salvation before Jesus appeared. And if one follows TULIP then one cannot explain the absence of Jesus since creation of totally depraved mankind.

...then don't follow TULIP, it's not like Peter, Paul and the rest of the Apostles were clearly either Catholic, or Orthodox, or exactly aligned with the interpretations of one of dozens of the largest Protestant offshoots.

 

[Duvduv]

Can we please stick to the central point?