Salem witch hysteria and the moldy bread hypothesis

[durangodawood]

Any ideas?

Like statues to Klebold & Harris?

Maybe like what they do around Auschwitz, for example. Ive only seen pictures, but it looks pretty sombre, as it should be.

 

[Occams Barber]

From the point of view of physics, we don't yet understand most of nature. Regular matter of the types we have discovered and characterized well compose only about 5% of the Universe. The other 95% is stuff we don't understand yet. That implies there could possibly be an unseen world all around us. Let me be more correct: there is certainly an unseen world all around us, which we cannot currently detect with any technology we currently have to our best understanding. So....I'm pretty cautious about any thinking that tends towards presuming something doesn't exist because we haven't yet discovered it in modern science, etc.

If I adopted your thought process I'd be accepting that anything which can be conceived of could exist. Technically you're sort of right in the sense that disproving the existence of stuff is more or less impossible but accepting the probable existence of anything and everything is also problematic. It's a huge jump from "95% unknown" to "possibly demons?".

Just because we don't understand everything doesn't mean we make unfounded assumptions about the nature of the unknown. There is no reason to suppose that demons exist in the same way, as an atheist, I see no reason to suppose that God(s) exist. In our culture demons are part and parcel of religious belief.

As a Christian I assume demons form part of your religious worldview therefore you have reason to include them in your list of things which probably exist.

On the balance of probabilities, I can comfortably dismiss the concept of demons, along with dragons, elves, fairies and leprechauns, unless I get evidence to the contrary.

OB

 

[AV1611VET]

On the balance of probabilities, I can comfortably dismiss the concept of demons, along with dragons, elves, fairies and leprechauns, unless I get evidence to the contrary.

What would constitute evidence? ectoplasm?

 

[USincognito]

Thats pretty tacky.

I'd think memorials or a museum to mass murder would be in quieter taste.

Yeah. Me too. This is literally the shoulder patch for the police department. I despise what Salem has done to itself.

 

[durangodawood]

Yeah. Me too. This is literally the shoulder patch for the police department. I despise what Salem has done to itself.

Well thats America. Make a buck wherever you can.

 

[Halbhh]

If I adopted your thought process I'd be accepting that anything which can be conceived of could exist. Technically you're sort of right in the sense that disproving the existence of stuff is more or less impossible but accepting the probable existence of anything and everything is also problematic. It's a huge jump from "95% unknown" to "possibly demons?".

Just because we don't understand everything doesn't mean we make unfounded assumptions about the nature of the unknown. There is no reason to suppose that demons exist in the same way, as an atheist, I see no reason to suppose that God(s) exist. In our culture demons are part and parcel of religious belief.

As a Christian I assume demons form part of your religious worldview therefore you have reason to include them in your list of things which probably exist.

On the balance of probabilities, I can comfortably dismiss the concept of demons, along with dragons, elves, fairies and leprechauns, unless I get evidence to the contrary.

OB

If a story about 'demons' only existed in one culture or just one tradition, then it would seem less plausible certainly. Like unicorns. But, in contrast, when a similar seeming phenomena is widely accounted by many diverse cultures though, then it becomes more plausible to wonder if it's based on something real, regardless of how it could be diversely characterized (mythologized) on top of any real underlying events. You'd get both the real and the elaboration on top, both. Here's a good example: a great flood. If you only had it reported by just one culture, you'd probably guess it would be likely just some notable local flood, like a 100 year or 500 year flood, etc. and not really a 'great flood' or such. But in contrast, if you have diverse reports of a great flood in many cultures, then it becomes plausible that a much more rare event did occur, such as a once in 5,000 or 10,000 year flood or perhaps even (say with a comet impact at shallow angle in deep ocean) more like a truly great flood.

Anyway, diverse reports make something more likely real, in terms of plausibility.
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(This is sort of a different topic, but I've been noticing that what we in the U.S. believed to be a "100 year flood" type event we now are beginning to realize is going to be happening more often than just say 5 times in 500 years, etc. It may turn out that what we used to think was a "100 year flood" might be more like a 10 year flood going forward, due to global warming. What was once thought a '500 year flood' might be for a given location likely to happen this century.

 

[Occams Barber]

Anyway, diverse reports make something more likely real, in terms of plausibility.

"Diverse reports" would also point to the plausibility of the entire range of gods and other supernatural entities. Belief in demons tells us a lot more about the nature of humanity than it does the possibility of demonic existence. Demons are just one element in the panoply of supernatural beings invented by humans as an attempt to explain and control the unknown.

"Diverse reports" can be just as easily explained by the commonality of human nature as they can be by "plausibility".

OB

 

[JohnEmmett]

Belief in demons tells us a lot more about the nature of humanity than it does the possibility of demonic existence.

Doubt in demons tells us about the nature of humanity

 

[durangodawood]

Doubt in demons tells us about the nature of humanity

What does it tell us?

 

[JohnEmmett]

What does it tell us?

Lack of faith, presence of doubt

 

[Occams Barber]

What would constitute evidence? ectoplasm?

No idea, but I do subscribe to the Sagan standard that 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.'

OB

 

[JohnEmmett]

This exorcist has spoken to Satan himself

 

[JohnEmmett]

extraordinary evidence

 

[Occams Barber]

extraordinary evidence

Not really.

First person reports of alleged supernatural events are fairly run of the mill. CF is full of them.

OB

 

[JohnEmmett]

fairly run of the mill.

you simply can't perceive

 

[Occams Barber]

you simply can't perceive

True

I am nothing but an ignorant materialist entirely lacking in spirituality and a sense of the transcendent.

OB

 

[JohnEmmett]

True

K…

 

[Halbhh]

"Diverse reports" would also point to the plausibility of the entire range of gods and other supernatural entities. Belief in demons tells us a lot more about the nature of humanity than it does the possibility of demonic existence. Demons are just one element in the panoply of supernatural beings invented by humans as an attempt to explain and control the unknown.

"Diverse reports" can be just as easily explained by the commonality of human nature as they can be by "plausibility".

OB

Well, just speaking for myself, the fact that various people have come up with many diverse gods would not to me, myself, back when I was an atheist, have been suggestive that no god exists.

Instead, if it suggested anything at all to me back then (when I was an atheist), at best it would bring to mind or suggest that many tried to find something hard to find, and then most finally began to use their own ideas when trying to put a face on that ineffable something, which might exist quite easily, in that the human brain cannot comprehend Nature in precision, but only very approximately. I'm pretty much here just recalling some thoughts I had many decades ago.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Well, just speaking for myself, the fact that various people have come up with many diverse gods would not to me, myself, back when I was an atheist, have been suggestive that no god exists.

The god realm is a karmic realm

 

[Halbhh]

The god realm is a karmic realm

Does seem that way for some of them yes. Karma itself may be a kind of way of trying to enunciate the feeling that we will pay for our unrepented wrongs even if no one here on Earth deals that justice.