Saint Ellen

[woobadooba]

The man had his good and bad. Alright.

Incidentally the testimony that you shared about the man who was kicked paled in comparison to what happened to him later.

www.formeradventist.com/stories/jessdixon.html


My departure from Adventist pastoral ministry I think is unique, in that it did not center upon the controversial doctrines so central in the departure of many Adventist ministers. My only issue at the time was the authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ. It remains my primary issue today!
The Holy Spirit led me to purchase a copy of Martin Luther's commentary on Romans. I DISCOVERED the authentic Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ! After Bonnie and I knew we WERE saved,, I knew this was the primary message my congregation needed to hear so that they could smile, and believe when they sang, "Redeemed, how I love to proclaim it!"
And so for 18 months I preached on nothing .. I repeat, NOTHING but Justification by Faith.
I must point out that during part of this time the events of Glacier View were occurring. I did not preach a single sermon, nor make one statement about Des Ford and his position relative to the Sanctuary doctrine; nor Ellen White's inspiration or plagiarism or anything about the conflict brewing within the Church at that time. The ONLY subject I preached upon for 18 months was 100% Gospel, focusing upon the grand master subject, Justification by Faith alone.
Time will not permit me to tell of traumatic events which took place during those 18 months, but they included:

• Long sessions of questionings and stern warnings from the Conference President.
• Being told by a Conference officer, "Preach anything but the Gospel !" (A direct quote.) I was confusing and upsetting my congregation, he said.
• A Cardiologist told me I was having muscle spasms around the heart caused by the stress I was under. He said it could kill me, unless I removed the source of the stress.
• The head Deacon standing up and yelling in anger in the middle of my sermon over my preaching "Justification by faith!"
• Telephone harassment: waking us at 2:00 and 3:00 a.m. night after night.
• When things reached a climax in Dec. 1981 The Conference President said I would make a public statement of loyalty, which covered four specific areas or else I could never serve in the denomination , as a minister;
• He told us not to worship with our congregation as long as we remained in Bozeman. And I was to move my family out of the State within three weeks; find work, a place to live, packing and moving, enrolling our four children in new schools. He wanted that done in three weeks! However we did not move for six months.

Being totally ostracized and cut off from virtually all association with those we thought to be true friends was a shock. I was not prepared for the dark valley my wife and I were about to enter, including over ten years of severe, chronic depression.



One thing on the kicking story--one account says three times and another four. But oh well. Decide for yourselves.

More slanderous trash. This is utterly ridiculous. The comment of "Preach anything but the gospel" is more than enough reason to become highly suspicious of this testimony. Who would say such a thing? Perhaps Satan would, but it is not likely that anyone from the GC said this to this man.

And I am sure there is a lot more to this story than what this person is disclosing. He probably sought to do the very same thing that certain FORMERS are trying to do in here. That is, to undermine the SDA church.

These angry voices that spew their anti-SDA venom are all pawns in the hands of Satan leading people down a road of perdition! The sad thing is that they don't know what they are doing. Yet, that excuse will not save them in the day of God's wrath.

You will notice that they all have one thing in common: They spend every moment that they can assassinating the characters of prominent names in the SDA church and complaining about its doctrines. Thus they are divisive and antagonistic and thereby show that they wreak of hatred!

 

[NightEternal]

More slanderous trash. This is utterly ridiculous. The comment of "Preach anything but the gospel" is more than enough reason to become highly suspicious of this testimony. Who would say such a thing? Perhaps Satan would, but it is not likely that anyone from the GC said this to this man.

And I am sure there is a lot more to this story than what this person is disclosing. He probably sought to do the very same thing that certain FORMERS are trying to do in here. That is, to undermine the SDA church.

These angry voices that spew their anti-SDA venom are all pawns in the hands of Satan leading people down a road of perdition! The sad thing is that they don't know what they are doing. Yet, that excuse will not save them in the day of God's wrath.

You will notice that they all have one thing in common: They spend every moment that they can assassinating the characters of prominent names in the SDA church and complaining about its doctrines. Thus they are divisive and antagonistic and thereby show that they wreak of hatred!

And this post is not divisive and atagonistic? It 'reeks' of more hatred and intolerance than anything I have ever seen come from the keyboards of the formers here.

Nobody is 'slandering' Vandeman. Of course, this was the reaction that I totally expected.

If the story is not true, ANYONE is free to provide evidence this testimony is all lies and that he, indeed, did not kick this man in the leg.

Until then, I have no reason to disbelieve either of his testimonies, as I do not have the bias against formers that some clearly do.

And if you doubt the 'preach anything but the Gospel' statement, I challenge you to take ANY pulpit in ANY conservative SDA church and preach justification by faith strictly the way Luther taught it. I guarantee you, you will not be having access to that pulpit again, and that's if you can get to the end of the message without an elder or pastor mounting the platform and whispering in your ear that 'you need to end your message right now'. Why? Because it contradicts the righteousness by faith that EGW taught with a perfectionist slant.

I know, because it happened to me. Of course, I am a liar as well according to some here, so my experience doesn't mean a whole lot in the way of truth.

Some SDA ministers know this all to well, hence the warning to 'preach the party line and do not deviate'. I have heard some Liberal pastors say it with my own ears!

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

And I am sure there is a lot more to this story than what this person is disclosing. He probably sought to do the very same thing that certain FORMERS are trying to do in here. That is, to undermine the SDA church.

These angry voices that spew their anti-SDA venom are all pawns in the hands of Satan leading people down a road of perdition! The sad thing is that they don't know what they are doing. Yet, that excuse will not save them in the day of God's wrath.

Can you feel the love? This is the problem in so much of Christianity, so willing to damn and so anxious to see the wrath of God.

I just got the book unChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity... and Why It Matters (Hardcover)
by David Kinnaman (Author), Gabe Lyons (Author) Very interesting and a very important book I think. Very apropos for Adventists.

 

[AndrewK788]

Can you feel the love? This is the problem in so much of Christianity, so willing to damn and so anxious to see the wrath of God.

I just got the book unChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity... and Why It Matters (Hardcover)
by David Kinnaman (Author), Gabe Lyons (Author) Very interesting and a very important book I think. Very apropos for Adventists.

There are many who do not show the love of Christ in their actions here. The biggest mistake some of us SDAs make is thinking that there is something sacred about the SDA church in and of itself. You are saved through acceptance of Christ, not acceptance of SDA doctrine.

Although I do agree with most SDA doctrine but that isn't the point at all.

 

[djconklin]

tall: Being told by a Conference officer, "Preach anything but the Gospel !"

Who was this conference officer?

 

[NightEternal]

Well, I have been reported in this thread. Looks like the truce is pretty much complete toast now.

So be it then.

 

[djconklin]

truce? what truce? You have virtually always attacked. Even lied saying I called you a liar--with no apology.

If you break the rules why wouldn't you expect to get reported??

 

[NightEternal]

We are trying to work for a report-free forum. You would know that if you had been around.

I broke no rules. If you can prove to me Woob has not behaved in the way we have been saying, than my post stands.

You implied I was a liar Conklin, so you will be waiting for your apology for as long as I have been waiting for mine.

 

[djconklin]

I have been around--just not every day.

A personal attack isn't a violation of any rule? Who voted to allow that?

"You implied I was a liar Conklin" I have never implied that you were a liar. I asked for the proof and how to find it. I was led to it and that was it. You latter lied claiming I called you a liar--which I didn't do. Even now, in your post you are backing off from your previous lie.

 

[NightEternal]

Just answer the question Conklin. Has he or has he not been demonstrating this behavior?

He has, so there is no personal attack, only truth. Your report was groundless and petty.

You and DL both implied I was a liar for not taking my word on something and demanding proof. That is the same as outright stating it to my mind.

 

[tall73]

tall: Being told by a Conference officer, "Preach anything but the Gospel !"

Who was this conference officer?

No clue. That is why you can read it and see what you think of it.

You can call him up if you like as Night says.

I tend to believe that he was pressured. You of course do not have to believe that. I am just presenting the evidence as testimonial evidence. If you want to research it feel free.

 

[Sophia7]

I have been around--just not every day.

A personal attack isn't a violation of any rule? Who voted to allow that?

"You implied I was a liar Conklin" I have never implied that you were a liar. I asked for the proof and how to find it. I was led to it and that was it. You latter lied claiming I called you a liar--which I didn't do. Even now, in your post you are backing off from your previous lie.

Are you now saying that he lied previously? Would that not be calling him a liar?

 

[djconklin]

Sophia, now yes, not when he claimed I called him a liar--even he has backed off from that (as I duly noted).

 

[annie1speed]

It is absolutely inexcusable that a minister would be treated this way for preaching righteousness by faith for crying out loud! Do we actually think this is OKAY?

Hmmmm. no .... I mean NO!! Is that better?

 

[NightEternal]

Let's look at the offending post in question again, shall we?

*****Quote of the offending post removed as it is a now edited reported post*****

If that's a 'general' statement then I'll eat my keyboard right now.

 

[djconklin]

Want ketchup or mustard? hehe--left yourself wide-open for that one.

 

[tall73]

Want ketchup or mustard? hehe--left yourself wide-open for that one.

Noooooo

Not mustard:

(1905) M.H. 325
556. Under the head of stimulants and narcotics is classed a great variety of articles that, altogether, used as food or drink irritate the stomach, poison the blood, and excite the nerves. Their use is a positive evil. Men seek the excitement of stimulants, because, for the time, the results are agreeable. But there is always a reaction. The use of unnatural stimulants always tends to excess, and it is an active agent in promoting physical degeneration and decay. {CD 339.2} In this fast age, the less exciting the food, the better. Condiments are injurious in their nature.

Mustard

, pepper, spices, pickles, and other things of a like character, irritate the stomach and make the blood feverish and impure. The inflamed condition of the drunkard's stomach is often pictured as illustrating the effect of alcoholic liquors. A similarly inflamed condition is produced by the use of irritating condiments. Soon ordinary food does not satisfy the appetite. The system feels a want, a craving, for something more stimulating. {CD 339.3}

 

[djconklin]

Any evidence it ain't so? Or, is this just an attempt to cast ridicule?

And given the "food safety standards" of the day what were they calling "mustard"?

 

[tall73]

Any evidence it ain't so? Or, is this just an attempt to cast ridicule?

And given the "food safety standards" of the day what were they calling "mustard"?

huh?


It was a joke to go with your ketchup and mustard comment.

Don't stress over it too much.

 

[Loveaboveall]

Tall,

Unfortunately the story you posted is "believable". I have known some conference workers who demonstrated by their actions and words they had no clue what the Love of Jesus was let alone share it with others in their daily life. If this story is true it is very regretful, I hope that it is embelished... The system is flawed because humans are part of it. We cannot let individual human sinfulness come get us down and turn us away from God. I hope that this man has not turned from God, I can understand turning from the church but hopefully his faith is still strong. I look forward to the day when all things are made new and the sinful nature of us humans will be destroyed forever!