Saddam and Gomorrah

[RealDealNeverstop]

Other than that bit about them trying to sodomize Lot and the angels, you're absoloutely right!

Really? Where does scripture say they tried to Sodomize Lot and the Angels? Is it even known Sodom and Gomorrah are not the real names of the cities? Or, let's try a common sense angle...if gay rape was the desire then why did Lot offer females? If gay rape was the desire then why didn't Lot offer himself? Things that make ya go hmmm....

 

[jgarden]

Saddam and Gomorrah

This is the way a city or a nation gets to be like Saddam and Gomorrah.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html

America has a chance to stop this in November.

Obama supports homosexuality, McCain does not.

It amazes me how Satan forces people to make a decision.

That decision tells what is really in a person's heart.

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Saddam and Gomorrah - I'm sure a president who can't remember how many houses he (or his wife) owns and a vice president, who just spent $150 000 in clothes (in September alone) in the middle of an economic "meltdown," will provide the moral leadership to take America to the "Promised Land!"

 

[Douger]

Realdealneverstop,
With all due respect, in other words I'm not trying to "stick it to you" in any way, but have you ever read the passage I'm referring to?
It's pretty graphic and straightforward. It specifies that the one's surrounding the house were "men" and the word "know" in these verses is clearly referencing sexual intercourse.
Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, and said, I pray you, bretheren, do no so wickedly.
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you , and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

A very similar and graphically described encounter happens in the book of Judges chapter 19 which uses the same terminology "know". The result is that the woman who the Benjamites accept in place of the man is raped to death.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Realdealneverstop,
With all due respect, in other words I'm not trying to "stick it to you" in any way, but have you ever read the passage I'm referring to?
It's pretty graphic and straightforward. It specifies that the one's surrounding the house were "men" and the word "know" in these verses is clearly referencing sexual intercourse.
Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, and said, I pray you, bretheren, do no so wickedly.
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you , and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

A very similar and graphically described encounter happens in the book of Judges chapter 19 which uses the same terminology "know". The result is that the woman who the Benjamites accept in place of the man is raped to death.

There's nothing there that actually responds to my post. It also doesn't say "only men" and it says all the people of the cities descended on Lot's house. Trying to compare the Judges 19 passage without researching the actual Hebrew is no less silly than comparing a chevy car manual to a ford car manual and saying "What's the diff? They're both manuals."

Lot was saying his daughters were virgins...that's not the same as saying have sex. When we say someone is a virgin do we also use the word virgin to mean "sex?" No. Instead of riding the Dobson wave it would help to really research that passage. Obviously I can't get a response to the simple things so I don't expect a response to these points either.

 

[Douger]

Sorry, figured it was easier to post a general request than just repost the thing again seeing as there were a few posts saying similar stuff! Wasn't trying to be a big ol' narcissist

I was just curious to know your views on that verse - for me it puts the OP in a different light, and it does seem like God's giving a reason that S+G were destroyed - and yeah, by that verse it really doesn't appear to have anything to do with homosexuality or gay marriage.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, but I agree, it doesn't seem to be what God destroyed those cities for.
However, all throughout history, rampant homosexuality almost always goes hand in hand with cruel, corrupt, all around nasty civilizations.

 

[Douger]

There's nothing there that actually responds to my post. It also doesn't say "only men" and it says all the people of the cities descended on Lot's house. Trying to compare the Judges 19 passage without researching the actual Hebrew is no less silly than comparing a chevy car manual to a ford car manual and saying "What's the diff? They're both manuals."

Lot was saying his daughters were virgins...that's not the same as saying have sex. When we say someone is a virgin do we also use the word virgin to mean "sex?" No. Instead of riding the Dobson wave it would help to really research that passage. Obviously I can't get a response to the simple things so I don't expect a response to these points either.

Uh, nice talking to you too?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Uh, nice talking to you too?

Don't mind me...just finishing a 12 hour day of working...with the flu. Decapitation actually sounds relaxing at this point because if my head throbs any harder I am going to sell it off as a Ballpeen hammer.

 

[Cabal]

I believe homosexuality is a sin, but I agree, it doesn't seem to be what God destroyed those cities for.
However, all throughout history, rampant homosexuality almost always goes hand in hand with cruel, corrupt, all around nasty civilizations.

Sure, the ezekiel verse doesn't close the issue at all, and I'm sure there are some parallels, I just find people tend to use S+G as being a self-explanatory anti-gay passage, which it really isn't.

 

[praying]

Saddam???? What happened to Sodom?

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Sure, the ezekiel verse doesn't close the issue at all, and I'm sure there are some parallels, I just find people tend to use S+G as being a self-explanatory anti-gay passage, which it really isn't.

Look at all of the other verses related to S + G then tell us how many speak about homosexuality.

 

[TheNewWorldMan]

Saddam and Gomorrah

FAIL

The correct spelling is "Sodom." "Saddam" is "Saddam Hussein," the late leader of Iraq.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Douger, here is the Hebrew word used in the verse you cited where the crowd wanted to "know" the angels inside. (And of course the crowd didn't know they were Angels...or who they were...that was why the crowd was demanding to "know" who they were. Now, can you find any sexual connotation in any of its uses? Can you find uses that may be in line with "wicked" actions?

3045. yada' (yaw-dah') 3046[wash my mouth]>>A primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively, instruction, designation, punishment, etc.) (as follow) -- acknowledge, acquaintance(-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, (un-)awares, can(-not), certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be (ig-)norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have (knowledge), (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have (understanding), X will be, wist, wit, wot.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

FAIL

The correct spelling is "Sodom." "Saddam" is "Saddam Hussein," the late leader of Iraq.

Guess it was missed where he was trying to tie B. Hussein Obama to Saddam?

 

[Douger]

Can you find uses that may be in line with "wicked" actions?

Would "lie by man" count?
Here's a list of possible definitions for yada, carnal knowledge is one of them.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03045&version=

And of course the crowd didn't know they were Angels...or who they were...that was why the crowd was demanding to "know" who they were.

But then why does Lot say "do not so wickedly" and then offers them his virgin daughters instead, and then when they say they'll do even worse with him than with them they nearly break down the door (which Lot was standing in front of) in their attack.
It sure doesn't sound like they just wanted to get to know the strangers.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Would "lie by man" count?
Here's a list of possible definitions for yada, carnal knowledge is one of them.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=03045&version=

The "lie" part looks like it's talking about telling a lie due to the "+" following known, as in information. The possible carnal knowledge is quite a stretch and if you look at earlier translations it will be seen that is a new addition to possible translations.

But then why does Lot say "do not so wickedly" and then offers them his virgin daughters instead, and then when they say they'll do even worse with him than with them they nearly break down the door (which Lot was standing in front of) in their attack.
It sure doesn't sound like they just wanted to get to know the strangers.

Right at the top of the list for uses the word "punishment" appears:

"A primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing); used in a great variety of senses, figuratively, literally, euphemistically and inferentially (including observation, care, recognition; and causatively, instruction, designation, punishment, etc."

The wicked thing was speaking of physical violence and not sex. That is why it states ALL of the people of the cities descended on Lot's house. It doesn't say "only men" so it makes no sense to inject that condition when the scripture states otherwise.

Another overlooked part is even in granting your argument about yada meaning sex we see it cannot be correct because if sex was involved then it was rape that wouldv'e been the attempted act. Homosexual sex means two consenting peeps and it's clear the angels weren't consenting to anything.

Lot offered his daughters as a gift to distract the crowd and this is a theme seen in several movies where womyn offer themselves sexually to avoid someone else being beaten up.

 

[jgarden]

Saddam and Gomorrah

This is the way a city or a nation gets to be like Saddam and Gomorrah.

http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html

America has a chance to stop this in November.

Obama supports homosexuality, McCain does not.

It amazes me how Satan forces people to make a decision.

That decision tells what is really in a person's heart.

**********************************************************

Yes. History News Network’s poll of 109 historians found that 61% of them rank Bush as “worst ever” among U.S. presidents. Bush’s key competition comes from Buchanan, apparently, and a further 2% of the sample puts Bush right behind Buchanan as runner-up for “worst ever.” 96% of the respondents place the Bush presidency in the bottom tier of American presidencies. And was his presidency (it’s a bit wishful to speak of his presidency in the past tense–after all there are several more months left to go) a success or failure? On that score the numbers are still more resounding: 98% label it a “failure.”

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002804
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Saddam (Sodom) and Gomorrah - give the country a break!

The Republicans have already imposed the "worst of the worst" on an unsuspecting nation - after suffering under the Bush Administration for the last 8 years, America has already been to Hell and back.

 

[utdbear]

Ezekiel 16:49:

"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy."

Yup, sounds like gay marriage to me.

Don't know why you're looking in Ezekiel for the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It's in Genesis 19(Might want to gander at verses 3-5, it appears that's the straw).

 

[clirus]

jgarden quote

The Republicans have already imposed the "worst of the worst" on an unsuspecting nation - after suffering under the Bush Administration for the last 8 years, America has already been to Hell and back.

Response

I take issue with two words, imposed and back.

Imposed

The first economic crisis was the Internet bubble that was created in the democratic Clinton Administration by New York Investment companies.

The second economic crisis was from 9/11 and the rise of the Islamic Terrorists during the democratic Clinton Administration.

The third economic crisis was from the Sub Prime loan problem created by democratic legislation "Community Reinvestment Act" and New York Investment companies.

The investment companies were in New York and the Atheistic Liberal News Media is in New York. The New England states are the heart of liberalism. Maybe the liberalism of New York is the problem.

Back

We are not back yet. President Bush and a Republicans Congress got America through the Internet Bubble, the economic part of the 9/11 attack and is winning the war against Islamic Terrorists, but America and the world is not back.

The choice is the "stay the course" Republicans or the "cut and run" democrats. Iraq and the whole Middle East could return to Islamic Terrorist control and the economic problems could get a lot worse.

Republicans solve the problems that the democrats create. The Islamic Terrorist problem is not solved and the economic crisis is not solved, so it would be better to stick with Republicans, instead of creating a new set of problems by electing democrats.

Now is not the time to elect a charismatic actor that supports homosexuality and Socialism to be president of America.

 

[clirus]

nhislove quote

The actions of the sodomites were pretty clear when the Lord and and of his angels visited Lot.

Gen.19:5
They called to Lot , "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.

The word sodomy comes from sodom.

Truth is truth.

Response

Amen, Amen and Amen

 

[clirus]

Open quote

Tell me cilrus, do you honestly think that McCain if elected will stop, prevent or make illegal homosexual acts?
If so how, do you expect he will do so, if such moves would be unconstitiutional?

I expect if elected he will do nothing to change to status quo. So how is voting for Obama different?

Response

President Bush warned that there was a need for national congressional action to prevent judges from legalizing homosexual marriage. If Obama is elected and democrats control congress, they will appoint judges that support homosexual marriage and homosexuality. If McCain is elected and Republicans control congress, they will appoint judges that do not support homosexual marriage and homosexuality

The constitution does not support homosexuality. There are activist judges that pervert the constitution by interpreting the constitution to support inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality. In every vote by the people, homosexuality has been reject by the people.

A major part of the reason Atheists hate President Bush is because President Bush is a Christian that supports the Biblical concept of homosexuality. One could draw a lot of similarities between President Bush and Job.