Sad News To Report

[mkgal1]

based on what is written in God's Word, is that some will reject Jesus Christ and the grace offered through Him, and will remain unrepentant, and thus are destined for the lake of fire, which is where the devil and his angels will also be, for all of eternity.

Tragic.

Brinny - if this were so and if it's such a critical thing to "believe in Jesus" or else a person "goes to an eternal hell" then why did the apostles not teach about it ONE time that's recorded for us in Acts (for instance, since that's the birth of the early church)?

You mentioned the "Lake of Fire" from Revelation 21. That passage states that Hades was thrown into the Lake of Fire (so Hades isn't eternal - it's destroyed by the LOF). That means the only possible mention of hell in the bible is the Lake of Fire. Why wasn't this ever mentioned (Lake of Fire) by Jesus? Why didn't Paul warn of the LOF? If it's so vital - eternal life or death for us - why don't we see it all throughout the Bible, if that were the plot?

Revelation 21:8 ~ But to the cowardly and unbelieving and having become abominable and murderers and the sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their portion is in the lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."​

.....but then there's this verse:

Deuteronomy 4:24 ~ "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.


​

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
based on what is written in God's Word, is that some will reject Jesus Christ and the grace offered through Him, and will remain unrepentant, and thus are destined for the lake of fire, which is where the devil and his angels will also be, for all of eternity.

Tragic.

Brinny - if this were so and if it's such a critical thing to "believe in Jesus" or else a person "goes to an eternal hell" then why did the apostles not teach about it ONE time that's recorded for us in Acts (for instance, since that's the birth of the early church)?

You mentioned the "Lake of Fire" from Revelation 21. That passage states that Hades was thrown into the Lake of Fire (so Hades isn't eternal - it's destroyed by the LOF). That means the only possible mention of hell in the bible is the Lake of Fire. Why wasn't this ever mentioned (Lake of Fire) by Jesus? Why didn't Paul warn of the LOF? If it's so vital - eternal life or death for us - why don't we see it all throughout the Bible, if that were the plot?

Revelation 21:8 ~ But to the cowardly and unbelieving and having become abominable and murderers and the sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their portion is in the lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."​

.....but then there's this verse:

Deuteronomy 4:24 ~ "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.


​

Are you saying that there is no judgement, no lake of fire, and that God does not judge everyone who is not amongst the saved (those who repented and accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior)

Please clarify.

Thank you.

 

[mkgal1]

Are you saying that there is no judgement, no lake of fire, and that God does not judge everyone who is not amongst the saved (those who repented and accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior)

Please clarify.

Thank you.

What I'm saying is that there's not any teaching of Jesus recorded that aligns with the typical idea that "if you don't believe in Jesus you go to hell for eternity as your punishment". It isn't there - Jesus didn't teach it...Paul didn't teach it.....so maybe the answer is that we are misinterpreting things like what the Lake of Fire is....or to what extent are we "judged" etc.....even what "saved" means.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Are you saying that there is no judgement, no lake of fire, and that God does not judge everyone who is not amongst the saved (those who repented and accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior)

Please clarify.

Thank you.

What I'm saying is that there's not any teaching of Jesus recorded that aligns with the typical idea that "if you don't believe in Jesus you go to hell". It isn't there - Jesus didn't teach it...Paul didn't teach it.....so maybe the answer is that we are misinterpreting things like what the Lake of Fire is....or to what extent are we "judged" etc.....even what "saved" means.

Where is it written that those who are unrepentant, reject/do not believe in Jesus as Savior do not go to hell, to everlasting punishment?

In addition, why did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God come here, shed His blood, and die on the cross?

Also, what does John 3:16 mean?

 

[mkgal1]

Where is it written that those who are unrepentant, reject/do not believe in Jesus as Savior do not go to hell, to everlasting punishment?

Where is is written that they DO go to hell? I started this new thread (so as to not derail FL's thread): Lake of Fire

 

[mkgal1]

In addition, why did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God come here, shed His blood, and die on the cross?

In my belief.......to "trample death by His death". IOW.....His death on the cross brought life where Adam's sin had brought death. He defeated death and sin. It's called the Great Reversal.

God’s Great Reversal: Key to the Gospel of Luke

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Where is it written that those who are unrepentant, reject/do not believe in Jesus as Savior do not go to hell, to everlasting punishment?

Where is is written that they DO go to hell? I started this new thread (so as to not derail FL's thread): Lake of Fire

Where do the unrepentant go?

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
In addition, why did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God come here, shed His blood, and die on the cross?

In my belief.......to "trample death by His death". IOW.....His death on the cross brought life where Adam's sin had brought death. He defeated death and sin. It's called the Great Reversal.

Where is that written in God's Word?

 

[mkgal1]

Where do the unrepentant go?

You're deflecting from my question. Support your statement with Scripture.

 

[mkgal1]

Where is that written in God's Word?

That's what I'm asking you. We've all heard this....but I've searched Scripture and don't see it. I can't prove something that's NOT there.

 

[brinny]

brinny said: ↑
Where is that written in God's Word?

That's what I'm asking you. We've all heard this....but I've searched Scripture and don't see it. I can't prove something that's NOT there.

i asked you about what you posted below, and asked where this is written in God's Word.

mkgal1 said: ↑
In my belief.......to "trample death by His death". IOW.....His death on the cross brought life where Adam's sin had brought death. He defeated death and sin. It's called the Great Reversal.

 

[mkgal1]

i asked you about what you posted below, and asked where this is written in God's Word.

It's from the Orthodox liturgical hyms and prayer (interpreted from the Scriptures):


Selected Liturgical Hymns

THE PASCHAL TROPARION:

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!

HYPAKOE:

Before the dawn, Mary and the women came and found the stone rolled away from the tomb. They heard the angelic voice: “Why do you seek among the dead as a man the One who is Everlasting Light? Behold the clothes in the grave! Go and proclaim to the world: The Lord is risen!” He has slain death, as He is the Son of God, saving the race of men.

PASCHAL HYMN TO THE THEOTOKOS:

The angel cried to the Lady Full of Grace: Rejoice, O Pure Virgin! Again I say: Rejoice! Your Son is risen from His three days in the tomb! With Himself He has raised all the dead! Rejoice, all you people!

Shine! Shine! O New Jerusalem! The Glory of the Lord has shone on you! Exalt now and be glad, O Zion! Be radiant, O Pure Theotokos, in the Resurrection of your Son!

HYMN TO THE RESURRECTION:

Having beheld the Resurrection of Christ, let us worship, the holy Lord Jesus, the only Sinless One! We venerate Thy Cross, O Christ, and Thy Holy Resurrection we praise and glorify; for Thou art our God, and we know no other than Thee; we call on Thy name. Come, all you faithful, let us venerate Christ’s Holy Resurrection! For, behold, through the Cross joy has come into all the world. Let us ever bless the Lord, praising His Resurrection. By enduring the Cross for us, He destroyed death by death!

TROPARION OF ASCENSION:

O Christ God, Thou hast ascended in glory, granting joy to Thy disciples by the promise of the Holy Spirit. Through the blessing they were assured that Thou art the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world! ~ Common Prayers - Selected Liturgical Hymns

 

[brinny]

It's from the Orthodox liturgical hyms and prayer (interpreted from the Scriptures):


Selected Liturgical Hymns

THE PASCHAL TROPARION:

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!

HYPAKOE:

Before the dawn, Mary and the women came and found the stone rolled away from the tomb. They heard the angelic voice: “Why do you seek among the dead as a man the One who is Everlasting Light? Behold the clothes in the grave! Go and proclaim to the world: The Lord is risen!” He has slain death, as He is the Son of God, saving the race of men.

PASCHAL HYMN TO THE THEOTOKOS:

The angel cried to the Lady Full of Grace: Rejoice, O Pure Virgin! Again I say: Rejoice! Your Son is risen from His three days in the tomb! With Himself He has raised all the dead! Rejoice, all you people!

Shine! Shine! O New Jerusalem! The Glory of the Lord has shone on you! Exalt now and be glad, O Zion! Be radiant, O Pure Theotokos, in the Resurrection of your Son!

HYMN TO THE RESURRECTION:

Having beheld the Resurrection of Christ, let us worship, the holy Lord Jesus, the only Sinless One! We venerate Thy Cross, O Christ, and Thy Holy Resurrection we praise and glorify; for Thou art our God, and we know no other than Thee; we call on Thy name. Come, all you faithful, let us venerate Christ’s Holy Resurrection! For, behold, through the Cross joy has come into all the world. Let us ever bless the Lord, praising His Resurrection. By enduring the Cross for us, He destroyed death by death!

TROPARION OF ASCENSION:

O Christ God, Thou hast ascended in glory, granting joy to Thy disciples by the promise of the Holy Spirit. Through the blessing they were assured that Thou art the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world! ~ Common Prayers - Selected Liturgical Hymns

mkgal1 said: ↑
That's what I'm asking you. We've all heard this....but I've searched Scripture and don't see it. I can't prove something that's NOT there.

Are you saying that the lyrics of the song you posted is not based on scripture? What do you mean you searched scripture and couldn't find it and you cannot prove soomething that is not there?

 

[mkgal1]

Are you saying that the lyrics of the song you posted is not based on scripture?

Those are "lyrics of a song". They are liturgical hymns and prayers (recited during worship). They're absolutely "based on Scripture". Do you not recognize the "plot"?

What do you mean you searched scripture and couldn't find it and you cannot prove soomething that is not there?

I've searched Scripture and can't find "believe in Me or else you will be sent to a place of eternal punishment" or anything like it. You've asked me to show you where it says those that DON'T believe *won't* go to hell.....but I don't think that's even been discussed in the Bible. That's what I mean by me not being able to prove something that's not there.

Since it's your assertion that "it's all through the Bible" that the unrepentant are shown no mercy.....then I believe it's up to you to support that with some Scripture. It shouldn't be difficult if it's like you say it is....."all through the Bible".

 

[mkgal1]

If one man remains outside the love of God then one man has defeated the love of God. ~ St Augustine.

.....and I believe God is victorious. His love doesn't fail.

 

[mkgal1]

Brinny....think about what the resurrection meant. As the hymn states:

The Lord is risen!” He has slain death, as He is the Son of God, saving the race of men.

.....that may be worded awkwardly since it's translated from Greek (the race of men). It's better understood in English to mean "the whole human race".

Man's Fall and Resurrection — St. Andrew Greek orthodox Church

 

[brinny]

Those are "lyrics of a song". They are liturgical hymns and prayers (recited during worship). They're absolutely "based on Scripture". Do you not recognize the "plot"?


I've searched Scripture and can't find "believe in Me or else you will be sent to a place of eternal punishment" or anything like it. You've asked me to show you where it says those that DON'T believe *won't* go to hell.....but I don't think that's even been discussed in the Bible. That's what I mean by me not being able to prove something that's not there.

Since it's your assertion that "it's all through the Bible" that the unrepentant are shown no mercy.....then I believe it's up to you to support that with some Scripture. It shouldn't be difficult if it's like you say it is....."all through the Bible".

I've searched Scripture and can't find "believe in Me or else you will be sent to a place of eternal punishment" or anything like it.

That's the entire reason that Jesus was sent here, to shed his blood and die on the cross, so that those who repented would not face a holy God's wrath.

God's wrath is not pretty. There is no more grace or mercy when an unrepentant sinner stands before a holy God.

It's judgement and condemnation and sentencing.

There is a REASON that God sent His only begotten Son here to be crucified, shedding His blood and dying, and that is for those who repent to not face God's wrath.

This might help.

 

[brinny]

Brinny....think about what the resurrection meant. As the hymn states:

The Lord is risen!” He has slain death, as He is the Son of God, saving the race of men.

.....that may be worded awkwardly since it's translated from Greek (the race of men). It's better understood in English to mean "the whole human race".

Man's Fall and Resurrection — St. Andrew Greek orthodox Church

His grace IS offered to ALL. Not ALL will repent, accepting His grace.

 

[mkgal1]

That's the entire reason that Jesus was sent here, to shed his blood and die on the cross, so that those who repented would not face a holy God's wrath.

You still haven't provided Scripture for that. That is doctrine.....and interpretation, and that's not what I glean from Scripture.

Quoting from:
MAN'S FALL AND RESURRECTION
By Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos

We usually think of the fall in juridical terms, in meanings which have been taken from the law courts. We consider that Adam's sin was simply a transgression of a law, an external one, and that this transgression created guilt in man, with the result that this guilt has been inherited in Adam's descendants.

But this view of sin is not Orthodox. In Orthodoxy we regard sin as an illness of man. Man fell ill and this illness had an effect on the whole human race. Saint Cyril of Alexandria uses the image of the plant. When the root of the plant has become ill, then the branches also fall ill. We can interpret Adam's sin in this way as well.

What Adam failed to do, Christ, Who is called the new Adam, succeeded in doing. We can interpret the phrase from the troparion that Christ raised up "Adam with the whole human race." ~ Man's Fall and Resurrection — St. Andrew Greek orthodox Church

1 Corinthians 15:22 ~ For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[mkgal1]

Not ALL will repent, accepting His grace.

Show me.....and show me where it says they go to hell for eternity. You seem to just be repeating what most of us have heard - but where does Scripture back that up?