Sad News To Report

mkgal1

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Not a "rumor".

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41
Take a look at what divides the sheep from the goats:


Matthew 25 ~ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”



.......as I posted about the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, if you're going to make this about who "gets into heaven and who goes to hell" then the criteria isn't about who "confesses their sin and believes in Jesus"....instead it's who invited in the stranger, clothed the naked, fed the hungry, and visited the prisoners. THAT would be the criteria of "who is in and who is out".

Quoting Dr. Chuck Crisco ~
Jesus begins this sermon called the Olivet discourse in chapter 23 where he scolds the religious leaders as the Great Prophet and predicts their demise for murdering the saints, and thereby, he says, incurring the self-inflicted wrath of Rome.

Matthew 23:34, Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

At the disciples request, he explains to them that the temple will be destroyed, that there will be persecution which they must endure until the end when he comes in the clouds with judgment. He also tells them what kind of signs will precede this event so that they can be fully aware and alert for this event so as to flee the city when the Romans march toward it.

One argument raised against Matthew 25's sheep and goats story is that it is a different event, but remember there are no chapter headings. This is one unified sermon filled with various illustrations to impact them regarding its fulfillment.
 
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brinny

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Take a look at what divides the sheep from the goats:


Matthew 25 ~ “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”



.......as I posted about the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, if you're going to make this about who "gets into heaven and who goes to hell" then the criteria isn't about who "confesses their sin and believes in Jesus"....instead it's who invited in the stranger, clothed the naked, fed the hungry, and visited the prisoners. THAT would be the criteria of "who is in and who is out".
This is Jesus, condemning to a everlasting fire (hell).

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41

The bottom line, is that the rebellious, the goats, were condemned. He never knew them. They never repented nor sought His grace. They remained stubbornly in their sins and thus were condemned to hell.

The details about those who did to the "least of these" is just evidence of a heart that was changed from stone to flesh, and bore fruit of the Spirit as believer.

In addition, see post #337.
 
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mkgal1

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"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41

Hell IS terrifying. That is why we are warned to seek God's grace while it may be found. There will come a day when the door of grace closes.

'Tis best to heed His warning.

In addition see post #337.
None of this is "new" information to me, Brinny. I've heard all this for years - but only recently did I really study Scripture without all the voices like Billy Graham, Spurgeon, and Wilkerson.....threatening hell and eternal torment (not Jesus - it's not "His warning" that I can find)....and I see a whole different study of restoration of all humanity and all creation. It's truly freeing and encouraging.....truly Good News.
 
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mkgal1

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This is Jesus, condemning to a everlasting fire (hell).

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41

The bottom line, is that the rebellious, the goats, were condemned. He never knew them. They never repented nor sought His grace. They remained stubbornly in their sins and thus were condemned to hell.
I sure hope you're inviting in those strangers, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the prisoners then.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41

Hell IS terrifying. That is why we are warned to seek God's grace while it may be found. There will come a day when the door of grace closes.

'Tis best to heed His warning.

In addition see post #337.

None of this is "new" information to me, Brinny. I've heard all this for years - but only recently did I really study Scripture without all the voices like Billy Graham, Spurgeon, and Wilkerson.....threatening hell and eternal torment (not Jesus - it's not "His warning" that I can find)....and I see a whole different study of restoration of all humanity and all creation. It's truly freeing and encouraging.....truly Good News.
The verse i posted is Jesus condemning the rebellious and unrepentant to the eternal lake of fire.

It's a warning to us.

'Tis best to heed it.

If you are familiar with the Bible as you say, why were you asking for Bible verses. YOu are already aware of them, aren't you?

Nevertheless, see post #337.

Did you tamper with my post that you quoted?
 
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brinny

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brinny said:
This is Jesus, condemning to a everlasting fire (hell).

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41

The bottom line, is that the rebellious, the goats, were condemned. He never knew them. They never repented nor sought His grace. They remained stubbornly in their sins and thus were condemned to hell.
I sure hope you're inviting in those strangers, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the prisoners then.

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42
For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
I sure hope you're inviting in those strangers, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the prisoners then.
i'm a staunch advocate/crisis counselor for the homeless, downtrodden, abused, and the oppressed and cast aside. i always give whatever i have in my pocket to the homeless, and sometimes go to a bank machine to withdraw money and walk back to a homeless person i just introduced myself to and give them whatever i withdrew, etc.

Why do you ask?

And what has this got to do with the coming judgement of God that so many need to be warned about and given the GOOD News?

Tis best to heed Jesus' own warning.

If you are familiar with the Bible, and you say that you are, you are familiar with Jesus speaking on hell multiple times.

It is urgent.

TODAY is the day of salvation. NOW is the time.

i suspect He's not kidding.
 
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FineLinen

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"Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It’s God’s gift from start to finish! We don’t play the major role. If we did, we’d probably go around bragging that we’d done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing." -The Message-
 
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mkgal1

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Tis best to heed Jesus' own warning.
He wasn't speaking to us. Context is king, you know.

Quoting from linked article: Jesus begins this sermon called the Olivet discourse in chapter 23 where He scolds the religious leaders as the Great Prophet and predicts their demise for murdering the saints, and thereby, He says, incurring the self-inflicted wrath of Rome.

Matthew 23:34, Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
~ Men Who Stare at (Sheep) and Goats: Is This Judgment Past? — A New Day Dawning
 
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mkgal1

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This is Jesus, condemning to a everlasting fire (hell).

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" ~Matthew 25:41
Why do you ask?

And what has this got to do with the coming judgement of God that so many need to be warned about and given the GOOD News?


I'd responded that I hope you're making sure you are feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting prisoners in jail - because, IF you are going to use this as an example of "Jesus condemning people to an everlasting hell" - then THAT is the criteria that separates the sheep and the goats in that passage. It says NOTHING about "those who have believed on Jesus" or "those that said the sinner's prayer" or, actually, it says nothing about Jesus or the cross being a criteria of those who were blessed. Go back and read the passage again - without the "eternal hell" lens informing you what it's about. Look for what sets the two groups apart from one another.

Matthew 25:34-36 ~
Then the King will say to those on His right, Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

35 For I was hungry
and you gave Me something to eat;
I was thirsty
and you gave Me something to drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you took care of Me;
I was in prison and you visited Me.’
 
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Anthony2019

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Some happy news to report..... God is love.

His love is perfect. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres (1 Corinthians 13:7).

"Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good; for his steadfast love endures forever! Let Israel say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let the house of Aaron say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Let those who fear the Lord say, “His steadfast love endures forever.” Out of my distress I called on the Lord; the Lord answered me and set me free" (Psalms 118:1-29).

"The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness" (Lamentations 3:22-23).

"But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness" (Psalms 86:15).

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love" (1 John 4:7-8).
 
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renniks

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"Now God has us where he wants us, with all the time in this world and the next to shower grace and kindness upon us in Christ Jesus. Saving is all his idea, and all his work. All we do is trust him enough to let him do it. It’s God’s gift from start to finish! We don’t play the major role. If we did, we’d probably go around bragging that we’d done the whole thing! No, we neither make nor save ourselves. God does both the making and saving. He creates each of us by Christ Jesus to join him in the work he does, the good work he has gotten ready for us to do, work we had better be doing." -The Message-
What is your point? See bolded. Not everyone will let God save them. Good grief, look how evil some people are, sex trafficking, rape, senseless murder, most will not be saved because they love the darkness.
 
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mkgal1

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Not everyone will let God save them.
You know the entire future and doubt the ability of God's love?

What we see now is humanity in a corrupt place - but what about when God is revealed separate from the allures of the trappings of our culture (like status, wealth, and the praises of mankind)? Where are we given an expiration of His mercy and love?
 
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renniks

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You know the entire future and doubt the ability of God's love?

What we see now is humanity in a corrupt place - but what about when God is revealed separate from the allures of the trappings of our culture (like status, wealth, and the praises of mankind)?
You mean like it was in Eden? And yet we still fell. What will be revealed in the end is God's anger with sin, and his love for those who have chosen to humble themselves.
 
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mkgal1

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You mean like it was in Eden? And yet we still fell. What will be revealed in the end is God's anger with sin, and his love for those who have chosen to humble themselves.
No, expecting Eden is quite a leap from where they were.

You're still making the claim to know the future that God holds in His hands. ISTM that God took care of sin at the cross.
 
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renniks

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No, expecting Eden is quite a leap from where they were.

You're still making the claim to know the future that God holds in His hands. ISTM that God took care of sin at the cross.
And you're claiming to know things that aren't in the Book....
Rev. 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
 
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mkgal1

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And you're claiming to know things that aren't in the Book....
You may be forgetting or overlooking things which ARE "in the Book" like all that FineLinen has highlighted in this thread:


I believe
 
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renniks

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You may be forgetting or overlooking things which ARE "in the Book" like all that FineLinen has highlighted in this thread:


I believe
I put together a similar list of verses to prove that I can make the Bible say we should murder people. It's very easy to pick verses with no context and support any doctrine.
 
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mkgal1

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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:


PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER TWO
I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

ARTICLE 5
"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"


631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476 The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:



Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.477
Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487



Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488
IN BRIEF

636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (Heb 2:14). ~ Catechism of the Catholic Church - Christ Descended into Hell
 
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FineLinen

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What is your point? See bolded. Not everyone will let God save them. Good grief, look how evil some people are, sex trafficking, rape, senseless murder, most will not be saved because they love the darkness.

Dear Ren: My friend if any of our salvation is as a result of what we do, it is doomed from the start. Salvation begins in Him, is sustained by Him and ends fully in Him. The entire process is wholly of Him. "No man can come to Me unless it is granted of My Father">>>

NOBODY!

“Millions choose evil; may they not always choose it? The reply is that this is the sinner’s will arrayed in battle against the Divine will. One must ultimately yield. I expect it will not be God. God will not coerce the sinner’s will by force. He faces it as a consuming fire, and the day comes when the sinner sinks down beaten and cries out: ‘God I yield.’ Terrible is God against sin, foolish the soul that contests against Him…the sinner is one who has courage to enter a contest of his will against God’s will. My orthodox friends tremble for God. I do not. I exhort them to 'have faith in God.” -P.T. Barnum-
 
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FineLinen

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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:


PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER TWO
I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

ARTICLE 5
"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"


631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476 The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:



Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.477
Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell

632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfilment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.

635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485 Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487



Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488
IN BRIEF

636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (Heb 2:14). ~ Catechism of the Catholic Church - Christ Descended into Hell

Dear Gal: The unlimited Christ does amazing things!

The risen Christ preaches to the dead

“Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; which once were disobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water… for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

Dead=

nekros= a corpse (from nekus)=

Breathed his last/ lifeless.

Deceased/ departed.

Destitute of life/ without life.

Inanimate.

Disobedient= apeitheo=

Not to allow one’s self to be persuaded.

To refuse or withhold belief & obedience.

To refuse belief and obedience.

Not to comply with.

Live= zao=

To be alive with resurrection life.

"Who shall render an account unto him who is holding in readiness to judge living and dead; for, unto this end, even unto the dead, was the glad-message delivered,—in order that they might be judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, but might live according to God in spirit." -Rotherham Emphasized-

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