Sacerdotalism

[Eucharisted]

Well, again, that's Peter to whom you're referring.

Actually, it's you I'm referring to. You are putting your theology into the Scripture as if your theology is the very Scripture itself. IOW, you are mixing up belief and Scripture. I was referring to your beliefs, not Scripture. You, not Peter.

 

[Standing Up]

Fallacy of associated guilt. Your argument for the priesthood is invalid.

Association fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was looking for that term when people were associating PRIESTS and PROPHETS and PASTORS.

Thanks Eucharisted, though you meant it not for good

 

[Standing Up]

Actually, it's you I'm referring to. You are putting your theology into the Scripture as if your theology is the very Scripture itself. IOW, you are mixing up belief and Scripture. I was referring to your beliefs, not Scripture. You, not Peter.

Okay, I guess. So now we can go back to Peter---

1 Peter 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Correct me here. Don't you believe the Church is built upon Peter the rock or the rock of confession (let the reader decide)?

Peter is talking to you and to me and to other believers. Shall we listen to him or to non-eyewitnesses? He's saying we are stones too, built up as a temple wherein God dwells. We are of the Melchizedek priesthood, called out of darkness into His light, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God. We are acceptable to God because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ who dwells in us.

 

[Eucharisted]

associating PRIESTS and PROPHETS (snip)

And once again Sacred Tradition is vindicated. But that's for another thread

 

[Standing Up]

Is it a human barrier between God and man?
Or is it a necessity as it was in the OT.

Is it a barrier or not?

Is it necessary or not?

 

[Eucharisted]

Okay, I guess. So now we can go back to Peter---

1 Peter 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Correct me here. Don't you believe the Church is built upon Peter the rock or the rock of confession (let the reader decide)?

Peter is talking to you and to me and to other believers. Shall we listen to him or to non-eyewitnesses? He's saying we are stones too, built up as a temple wherein God dwells. We are of the Melchizedek priesthood, called out of darkness into His light, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God. We are acceptable to God because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ who dwells in us.

The Church is built upon Peter and his faith, because the faith which Peter professed is the truth of Jesus Christ. I could go on about the Temple and the rock it was built on, but that's for another thread.

Heck, I could go through the whole Jewish background of the priesthood but it would take a few posts, and you Scripture Only Christians would just wave your hands and say, "So where's this in Scripture?" And after I point to Scripture you'll just wave your hands again and say, "Whatever, devil worshippers! Go suckle on the harlot of Babylon's teats!"

Really, your guys' hardheartedness is starting to disappoint me. And yes I am ranting rather than answering your question. Why? Because I already answered your question and I have had this same argument over spiritual sacrifices before. They all end the same way. Oh, the Protestants say they won't; they say, "We're different! We're ready to listen!" And than immediately after I present my side of the argument, they, probably out of some spirit of charity, parrot those often heard words "So where's this in Scripture?" and "Whatever, devil worshippers! Go suckle on the harlot of Babylon's teats!"

So, if you really want to know what the Church teaches on the priesthood, just read the documents. And if they don't provide enough clarification, you have a whole website - with over fifty miles of documents on it - to search for clarifications on "in the person of Jesus Christ", "spiritual sacrifices," etc.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

Heck, I could go through the whole Jewish background of the priesthood but it would take a few posts, and you Scripture Only Christians would just wave your hands and say, "So where's this in Scripture?" And after I point to Scripture you'll just wave your hands again and say, "Whatever, devil worshippers! Go suckle on the harlot of Babylon's teats!"
.

You make it sound like all non-RCs are of the Illuminati

Which reminds me of this movie I just saw for the first time last night...."Angels and Demons"....Kewl movie

 

[Standing Up]

Heck, I could go through the whole Jewish background of the priesthood but it would take a few posts, and you Scripture Only Christians would just wave your hands and say, "So where's this in Scripture?" And after I point to Scripture you'll just wave your hands again and say, "Whatever, devil worshippers! Go suckle on the harlot of Babylon's teats!"

We've already acknowledged that the concept of NT PRIEST came out from OT levitical-type priest.

Really, your guys' hardheartedness is starting to disappoint me. And yes I am ranting rather than answering your question. Why? Because I already answered your question -snip-

So, if you really want to know what the Church teaches on the priesthood, just read the documents. And if they don't provide enough clarification, you have a whole website - with over fifty miles of documents on it - to search for clarifications on "in the person of Jesus Christ", "spiritual sacrifices," etc.

Here's from your second cite---

" The Anaphora or Canon is one long prayer has the form of thanksgiving (eucharistia), thus following the example of Christ himself at the Last Supper, when he took bread and wine and "gave thanks" (Matthew 26:27; Mark 14:23; Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:23). "

So far so good. In fact, eucharist MEANS, it IS, thanksgiving.

" St. Cyprian of Carthage (died 258), one of the most important witnesses to the Latin tradition, provided a classical formulation of the inseparable bond between the liturgical celebration and the institution event, when he emphasised that the celebrant of the Eucharist must imitate closely the acts and words of the Lord at the Last Supper, upon which the validity of the sacrament depends.[3] "

Whoa. What just happened? We go from Paul and Peter and Jesus and scripture and precise first definition to someone who came along 200 years later who wasn't an eyewitness and who introduces the new sacrifice notion and you want us to believe that guy? The very early Church would reject that immediately as PROOF that it was not apostolic.

 

[Eucharisted]

We've already acknowledged that the concept of NT PRIEST came out from OT levitical-type priest.



Here's from your second cite---

" The Anaphora or Canon is one long prayer has the form of thanksgiving (eucharistia), thus following the example of Christ himself at the Last Supper, when he took bread and wine and "gave thanks" (Matthew 26:27; Mark 14:23; Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:23). "

So far so good. In fact, eucharist MEANS, it IS, thanksgiving.

" St. Cyprian of Carthage (died 258), one of the most important witnesses to the Latin tradition, provided a classical formulation of the inseparable bond between the liturgical celebration and the institution event, when he emphasised that the celebrant of the Eucharist must imitate closely the acts and words of the Lord at the Last Supper, upon which the validity of the sacrament depends.[3] "

Whoa. What just happened? We go from Peter and Jesus and scripture and precise first definition to someone who came along 200 years later who wasn't an eyewitness and who introduces the new sacrifice notion and you want us to believe that guy? The very early Church would reject that immediately as PROOF that it was not apostolic.

Thanks for proving my point about you Scripture Only Christians.

 

[Standing Up]

Thanks for proving my point about you Scripture Only Christians.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I'm using Tradition. Tradition says eucharist is thanksgiving.

It also shows where things skewed. Cyprian began a tradition. We know this because of Tradition.

Does that help?

 

[Eucharisted]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I'm using Tradition. Tradition says eucharist is thanksgiving.

It also shows where things skewed. Cyprian began a tradition. We know this because of Tradition.

Does that help?

Your theology isn't Catholic, so you applying your theology to Tradition doesn't work.

Quit using fallacies.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Your theology isn't Catholic, so you applying your theology to Tradition doesn't work.

Quit using fallacies.

According to the Church your Church broke away from, neither is yours

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381842/#post52251942

 

[Standing Up]

Your theology isn't Catholic, so you applying your theology to Tradition doesn't work.

Quit using fallacies.

From the citation again,

" it can only be founded on the "sacramental" authorization given to the whole Church by Jesus Christ himself. [...] And this is exactly the 'Priestly Ordination' and the 'Priesthood.'"[20] "

See those quotation marks around "sacramental"? They are there rightly because of fear of God; you see, the author already admitted that Jesus never did that, but rather, it was Cyprian.

 

[Eucharisted]

From the citation again,

" it can only be founded on the "sacramental" authorization given to the whole Church by Jesus Christ himself. [...] And this is exactly the 'Priestly Ordination' and the 'Priesthood.'"[20] "

See those quotation marks around "sacramental"? They are there rightly because of fear of God; you see, the author already admitted that Jesus never did that, but rather, it was Cyprian.

Only Chuck Norris could come up with a proper reply to such an insane conclusion - and even HE would have to think about what to say for at least ten minutes.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ unsubscribes............

 

[Christos Anesti]

But does it require a priest?

Yes the Eucharist does require a priest. It ALSO requires a congregation. The priest can not perform the Eucharist by himself. Does this imply that congregation is improperly standing in the way of the priests access to God ?

 

[Standing Up]

Only Chuck Norris could come up with a proper reply to such an insane conclusion - and even HE would have to think about what to say for at least ten minutes.

Okay. Take care.

 

[Standing Up]

Yes the Eucharist does require a priest. It ALSO requires a congregation. The priest can not perform the Eucharist by himself. Does this imply that congregation is improperly standing in the way of the priests access to God ?

What was that old saying? What happened if they had a war and no one showed up? Or was it the one about the tree falling in the forest?

 

[JESUS<3sYOU]

why do you use the word barrier when inquiring what they believe? that is a conclusion you have made upon yourself that you ATTEMPT to interject into their definition or beliefs.

Is your Pastor a barrier in hearing the Word of God?

Christ uses the Priest to bring his flock to him. This is what Christ did when he assemblied his Apostles and this is what the Apostles did when they ordained Bishops and Priests, and Deacons.

I agree with the above, as far as that part of the debate is concerned. Obviously we're having faith that Jesus did not intend for the Eucharist to be administered as this week's treat at the mall. Instead of complaining about barriers you could be praising God with hallelujahs.

 

[jckstraw72]

the sacraments are acts of Christ by and through His Body of believers, so yes, other people are necessary -- we are a body, if you want to call that a barrier then so be it.