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You probably should've read the stone tablets prior to responding instead if compounding your sin.
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Sabbath was made for man
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mmksparbud
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I am sorry, but you have not answered the question---the 10 were not just posted, they were rigorously enforced--please do not go off unto your own opinion--just historical facts. Sabbath keeping was strictly enforced, but it was Sunday, that is spelled out in the law books back then and in history books. Just asking an answer to my question, please! Society made the change slowly, but when?
I did look it up in Wiki--(Keeping the 10 Commandments in American History)but can't find the date of transition--it was an interesting article, though.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
The Sabbath wasn't enforced if it kept as Sunday, to say it was defeats any argument you have for the Sabbath because the Day is foremost important to keeping it NOT the action on another WRONG day.
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mmksparbud
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I have not addressed Sabbath keeping as the 7th day--the question is concerning the keeping of the 10 commandments in American history--I am making no argument about anything.
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Which churches kept the 7th day Sabbath?
In response to your previous post I'd like to ask why the Ten Commandments are necessary in light of Jesus' commandment to love and love your neighbor as yourself? How can you murder, why lie to yourself, why cheat on your spouse, are you going to steal your own stuff, etc? Most people seem to have no problem with such behavior, others find themselves in some kind of trouble and even restraint, if not death. Is it merely so you can promote the 7th day Sabbath? I think so.
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Such an argument requires the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath. Its still your sole focus and purpose. Quit trying to sneak in the back door.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Without proper Sabbath keeping the 10 commandments are only the 9 Commmandments thus invalid
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
It is what they do... anything to make you believe keeping 9 commandments obligates you to keeping the Sabbath (or missing one). It is like saying since a neighboring country has the same speed limit as we do then we must be citizens of that country and required to keep ALL of its laws
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mmksparbud
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Is there anyone out there that can understand my question?? I am not here discussing the Sabbath----historically, when the first settlers came here, and into much later, the 4th was considered Sunday and being kept as the Sabbath, so again, I am saying that I am not debating the 7th versus the 1st day--I am talking about the concept of keeping the 10 commandments-- the public considered the were enforcing the 10 y keeping Sunday as The Sabbath, so as far as they were concerned, they were keeping the 10--the question is when, in history, did everyone decide the 10 were no longer needed??? If this is too far off topic--should I open a separate thread to be better understood???
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Yup this "everyone" is "keeping" the Sunday Sabbath bait and switch is a common tactic here. We have arguments saying they are the same thing then another thread arguing one is in grievous sin by "keeping" Sunday instead of Saturday. Why someone would use such a bait and switch tactic here doesn't surprise me one bit.
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Sophrosyne,
How can we go along with that when Jesus tells us this plain and straight out!
Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
And note! He fulfilled it by keeping it himself as our example!
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
How can we go along with that when Jesus tells us this plain and straight out!
Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
And note! He fulfilled it by keeping it himself as our example!
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
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mmksparbud
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Since you have no intention of answering the question--why not button up and let someone else answer it?? Apparently this is over your head--I am not discussing sabbath I am talking about the 10 commandments--why is that so difficult for you to grasp?--Anyone else out there that can understand and answer the question??
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
The Law still exists, but it is unneeded for those whom believe in the one that fulfilled it on their behalf. Those who reject their redeemer the Law still exists for but the Law was for Israel ONLY.
As far as the Law goes if we love our neighbor then we are "seen" as complying with all the needs of the Law itself. This greatest commandment was iterated by Jesus and reiterated by his Apostles.
You have to call all instances of "loving your neighbor" as but lies as a commandment for Christians in order to deem the Law as having a use for us because those instances are at odds with the Law having say over us.
Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Now we have Jesus saying he fulfilled the Law and I've been told I have to fulfill the Law for myself and by loving my neighbor the Law is fulfilled.
Matthew 22:36-40New American Standard Bible (NASB)
36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law? 37 And He said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and [a]foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.
Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Galatians 5:14
For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well.
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Sophrosyne,
You surely will regard Jesus Christ's own statement I hope,
Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Do you want to be called the least?
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
You surely will regard Jesus Christ's own statement I hope,
Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Do you want to be called the least?
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Go back and read my post before in where loving your neighbor fulfills the Law and tell me those writers were liars
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Sophrosyne,
Yes those writers are right and I do also from love as it is the fulfilling of the law and true obedience to all He asks as we love to please Him, it is our greatest desire.
Jesus is the Author of the law and it will never be abrogated, will always be as he is eternal. The death of Christ on the cross or nothing will abrogate it. He is love and those 10 are the transcript of that love to us to practice and be of.
His law of love is spelled out in what we know as the 10 commandments and the first four are fulfilled if and when we love Him above all and the last 6 when and if we love our fellow man as ourselves.
It is my delight to do so!
1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Yes those writers are right and I do also from love as it is the fulfilling of the law and true obedience to all He asks as we love to please Him, it is our greatest desire.
Jesus is the Author of the law and it will never be abrogated, will always be as he is eternal. The death of Christ on the cross or nothing will abrogate it. He is love and those 10 are the transcript of that love to us to practice and be of.
His law of love is spelled out in what we know as the 10 commandments and the first four are fulfilled if and when we love Him above all and the last 6 when and if we love our fellow man as ourselves.
It is my delight to do so!
1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
How can Jesus be the author of the (Mosaic) Law when He claims it is his Father's commandments he keeps while we are to keep Jesus' commandments which equates not his Fathers?
NO.... ALL are fulfilled by loving your neighbor. The Bible authors didn't say what you are saying at all, you are adding to their words which isn't wise in fact there is a warning to those who add to the Bible.
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Because He and the father are one, from all eternity,
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
None of this logically addresses this verse:
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love.
We have 2 separate persons operating here with 2 separate sets of commandments. I see no logical reason why we would have only one person here instead. If it were only Jesus then it would have been simply written like this instead:
If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love... and the rest of the verse is unneeded. The fact it is INCLUDED puts your theological position as untenable.
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That is what we are talking about, the commandments and there is 10 of them and they are the law of love you keep speaking of and nothing else.
What puzzle's me is why you find the 10 are grievous to you.
His and His Father's commandments are one and the same. You forget at times Jesus spoke as a man and at times as God. As a man that could die He obeyed the Father's commandments for sure as we must, there is not two separate sets one for Jesus only and one for us who were not his Son!
What puzzle's me is why you find the 10 are grievous to you.
His and His Father's commandments are one and the same. You forget at times Jesus spoke as a man and at times as God. As a man that could die He obeyed the Father's commandments for sure as we must, there is not two separate sets one for Jesus only and one for us who were not his Son!
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