• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Sabbath School subject discussion thread

RC_NewProtestants

Senior Veteran
May 2, 2006
2,766
63
Washington State
Visit site
✟25,750.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Christianity is based on belief in everything God has spoken in His word. You appear as saying, the word has errors and is for limmited use.
The errors found does not change what is known as the Christian Gospel.

This all comes down to the presupposition the the Bible is the "Word of God" rather then the view that the Bible contains the Words of God. The latter is my view, the Bible references we use about the Bible being the Word of God were written before there even was a Bible. The Bible is also filled with the opinions of the writers, to say that the Bible is the Word of God says that those opinions are God's opinions. We know that is not true as can be seen in the book of Job. So logically the Bible is a mixture of man's ideas and God's instructions or revelations. I always ask people why if the Bible is the Word of God, that is the direct production of God that they don't kill Sabbath breakers because it is one of God's commands. How can they go against the very word of God? If you tack onto that that God does not change they really have no answer, other than to admit that not everything in the Bible is God's word. When they have to explain their positions they can no longer just quote a Bible verse they have to explain their use of the Bible verse and that is something that many Christians can't do.
 
Upvote 0

RC_NewProtestants

Senior Veteran
May 2, 2006
2,766
63
Washington State
Visit site
✟25,750.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
There is a good article on Spectrum on the issue of scripture:
http://www.spectrummagazine.org/articles/column/2008/06/09/not_%E2%80%9Csola%E2%80%9D_but_%E2%80%9Cprima_scriptura%E2%80%9D

Here is a section:
Martin Luther’s answer to Emperor Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire during his “heresy” trial before the Diet of Worms is instructive. “Unless I am convinced by the testimonies of Scripture or by clear reason, I cannot and will not recant,” he declared to the stunned assembly. “It is neither safe nor honorable to violate one’s conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. So help me God.”

Luther’s words amounted to a theological earthquake that opened deep and wide cracks in the belief that the Church of Rome has final authority, even over scripture, and Western culture has never been the same. It is noteworthy that in his defense Luther appealed to scripture or clear reason despite the many negative—and sometimes intemperate—things he said about human reason on some other occasions.

An exclusivist understanding of the role of scripture is not helpful for a number of reasons. One of these is that none of us can read scripture without being influenced by the circumstances in which we live. Another is that without studying other forms of contemporary knowledge, as well as the whole of scripture, it can be difficult to know how to apply what it says. Still further, the doctrine of “sola scriptura” makes it difficult for denominations to make effective use of the views of their pioneers, be they John Hus, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cramner, Count Nicholas Ludwig von Zinzendorf, John Wesley, or Ellen White. A fourth problem is that this doctrine makes it less likely that Christians will learn from religions other than their own. A fifth is that viewing scripture this way can needlessly make Christians appear dogmatic and obscurant.

Applying scripture to our lives is related to but different from reconstructing as accurately as possible what its various passages first meant, something that non-Christian historians and linguists can do equally well. For them the Bible is a cultural classic; however, for those of us who are Christians it is the primary religious canon too.

Some of the ancient Israelites apparently thought that it was a good idea to stone those who break the Sabbath. Most of them probably took it for granted that slavery was morally acceptable. Some of the first Christians seem to have believed that they could drink poison and handle snakes without being harmed. None of us believes these things today because we have learned much in the interlude.

We should let the ancients say what they did without necessarily feeling that we must agree in every detail. If we insist that we must always concur, we might read our own convictions into the ancient texts so as to avoid any uncomfortable difference. Doing this might solve our problems; however, it does so at the risk of distorting the Biblical materials. It is better to let them say what they did and for us to say what we must, always insisting that these maintain a constant and mutually beneficial dialogue with the overarching themes of scripture primary.
 
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Your fundamental beliefs and other church declarations say as follows;
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html#note1

1. Holy Scriptures:
The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)



AFFIRMATIONS
  1. We believe that Scripture is the divinely revealed word of God and is inspired by the Holy Spirit.
  2. We believe that the canon of Scripture is composed only of the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments.
  3. We believe that Scripture is the foundation of faith and the final authority in all matters of doctrine and practice.
  4. We believe that Scripture is the Word of God in human language.
1. The Bible the supreme standard. Seventh-day Adventists fully support the Reformation principle of sola scriptura, the Bible as its own interpreter and the Bible alone as the basis of all doctrines. The founders of the church developed fundamental beliefs through study of the Bible; they did not receive these doctrines through the visions of Ellen White. Her major role during the development of their doctrines was to guide in the understanding of the Bible and to confirm conclusions reached through Bible study.[1]
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Upvote 0

RC_NewProtestants

Senior Veteran
May 2, 2006
2,766
63
Washington State
Visit site
✟25,750.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Actually it is not a stretch at all. What many people fail to realize is that as the article states the Reformation was prima scriptora it did not devalue the reason necessary to understand or apply what the Bible said. However today many take the same tradition plus the Bible view as the Roman Catholic church did. Only now it is their tradition based upon whatever their denomination says or based upon what some particular Christian leader said. All Bible verses being read based upon their previous accepted beliefs, and if one differs from those beliefs, if one differs from accepting their restricted interpretation of a verse then they are declared to not follow the "word of God".
 
Upvote 0

StormyOne

Senior Veteran
Aug 21, 2005
5,424
47
65
Alabama
✟5,866.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your fundamental beliefs and other church declarations say as follows;
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scripsda.html#note1

1. Holy Scriptures:
The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration through holy men of God who spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to man the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the authoritative revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God's acts in history. (2 Peter 1:20, 21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; Heb. 4:12.)
just because the church says it does not make it correct....
 
Upvote 0

moicherie

True Brit
Oct 13, 2005
1,542
26
United Kingdom
✟24,311.00
Faith
SDA
What up Stormy (my friend)...

I have to side with AT about the bible being the bottom line.

You cant build a house without a standard to measure each board.
The bible with 66books are accepted as the inspired word of God.
It has been the standard of Protestant Christianity.

CRIB

Would you build a house without relating or dealing with a builder or would you rely on a 1000 year old books about building?
 
Upvote 0

moicherie

True Brit
Oct 13, 2005
1,542
26
United Kingdom
✟24,311.00
Faith
SDA
The church today places more emphasis on the words in the bible than encouraging its members to develop a relationship with whom they say the bible is about.....strange huh? Its like teaching a husband how to be a good husband by telling him the only thing he should do is read a book written by James Dobson rather than learn to relate to the wife he lives with......
 
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,068
✟108,451.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Would you build a house without relating or dealing with a builder or would you rely on a 1000 year old books about building?
Hey moicherie, thank you for the dialog.......

If the house is 1000yrs old most likely the builder is dead, unless the builder is God. If so, you can believe and trust the blueprint forever.

God's word is spiritual (supernatural) it transends time. God made the blueprint not man, so the church should rely on it as the only standard.

The analogy I gave Stormy was to try an establish the bible as the only "ruler"(measuring tool) that all capenters should use if we're building one house( "church".)


Truth is, some builders use the historical part of the book in a manner that adds to the word.
Gen 2:1-3 does not command humanity to rest, it says that God rested on the seventh day. We stand devided because we wont follow your "lesser light."
I'd rather hear you stand by your prophet's word than adding to what is written in the word.

The book of Genesis contains supernatural and historical truths that even Jesus, the prophets and the apostles used these words to teach in their generation.

Jesus referenced Genesis about marriage to say that divorce was not originally an option. Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

What did Paul (or writer of Hebrews) call the word of God by referencing creation, Cain, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Gideon, Samson, David, Samuel, etc. Read Heb 11 Hbr 11:3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.





Pro 30:5Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Isa 40:8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The church today places more emphasis on the words in the bible than encouraging its members to develop a relationship with whom they say the bible is about.....strange huh?

You can't really have one without the other can you? That would be like having a body without the soul.

Its like teaching a husband how to be a good husband by telling him the only thing he should do is read a book written by James Dobson rather than learn to relate to the wife he lives with......

But there are many a wives who tell their husbands to read that book. Why? Becasue it helps them to better know and relate to their wives. Just by having a wife suggest one has some sort of a relationship...the book helps them to relate and enhance that relationship. Wife and I after years of marriage still enjoy a good marriage seminar...just went to one this past Saturday. Insightful!:)

AT
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
lol.... i am still looking for that rule that says you must believe and sign off on everything that the church says it believes......

And yet thats just what the Adventist church told me when I joined her in the 1980's....I must believe all of it to be an Seventh Day Adventist.

AT
 
Upvote 0

StormyOne

Senior Veteran
Aug 21, 2005
5,424
47
65
Alabama
✟5,866.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And yet thats just what the Adventist church told me when I joined her in the 1980's....I must believe all of it to be an Seventh Day Adventist.

AT
no where is it written that one must believe/agree to everything they are told....
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
no where is it written that one must believe/agree to everything they are told....

Thats my point...But the SDA church asked that you do in the baptismal vows.

But to be under the New Covenant of Christ Jesus one must believe the essentials of the christian faith including that no other way to salvation other than through Christ...do you agree?


AT
 
Upvote 0

moicherie

True Brit
Oct 13, 2005
1,542
26
United Kingdom
✟24,311.00
Faith
SDA
You can't really have one without the other can you? That would be like having a body without the soul.



But there are many a wives who tell their husbands to read that book. Why? Becasue it helps them to better know and relate to their wives. Just by having a wife suggest one has some sort of a relationship...the book helps them to relate and enhance that relationship. Wife and I after years of marriage still enjoy a good marriage seminar...just went to one this past Saturday. Insightful!:)

AT


Note I used the word only. I doubt James Dobson or marriage seminars is your only means of getting to know your Mrs. Did you run to James Dobson when you first saw her or were courting? If you want to know your wife's dislikes do you call James Dobson or speak to your Mrs?

The bible can help one to know God but its not the only way to know God there is difference and that is something the church has not accepted.
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Note I used the word only. I doubt James Dobson or marriage seminars is your only means of getting to know your Mrs. Did you run to James Dobson when you first saw her or were courting? If you want to know your wife's dislikes do you call James Dobson or speak to your Mrs?

The bible can help one to know God but its not the only way to know God there is difference and that is something the church has not accepted.


Ok...then kindly tell me how you know God in Christ with out the bible please? You can pray and talk to a god all day, but until you get to know Him through His word first, you have'nt a clue.


AT
 
Upvote 0