Sabbath, Mark of the Beast, Ellen White

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Mrs Ellen G White suffered some type of head injury didn't she, when she was younger? There was some story that I once read, about her being hit by a stone or something like that in the head. And that trauma alone could have been the reason for her strange encounters. Didn't this also cause her to end up dropping out of school as well? If it did, it must have been a very severe injury that she sustained.

Trauma can cause hallucinations, dellusions & nightmares amongst other things, depending on its severity, type & so on. I.e severe trauma to the head can lead to such disturbances. And also, someone once went on to preach about how, Mrs White would be brought back to life, before the 2nd coming of Christ and how she would walk with the Adventist team, during the time of trouble. I'm assuming he was quoting this from her writings or something.
 
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eleos1954

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Mrs Ellen G White suffered some type of head injury didn't she, when she was younger? There was some story that I once read, about her being hit by a stone or something like that in the head. And that trauma alone could have been the reason for her strange encounters. Didn't this also cause her to end up dropping out of school as well? If it did, it must have been a very severe injury that she sustained.

Trauma can cause hallucinations, dellusions & nightmares amongst other things, depending on its severity, type & so on. I.e severe trauma to the head can lead to such disturbances. And also, someone once went on to preach about how, Mrs White would be brought back to life, before the 2nd coming of Christ and how she would walk with the Adventist team, during the time of trouble. I'm assuming he was quoting this from her writings or something.

Ellen White always points one back to the bible, word of God.

And also, someone once went on to preach about how, Mrs White would be brought back to life, before the 2nd coming of Christ

Whoever might have taught/said this is in error .... and Ms. White herself never taught this .... she taught all (with few exceptions) sleep in the grave and the saved for all time will be in the 1st resurrection (including herself)

Regardless of her injury .... and/or education level .... one should look at what she wrote .... she was a very gifted author .... your should read The Great Controversy .... it goes through a lot of history and of course biblical references.

The point is .... one shouldn't take "someones word" about her writings (or any one else's writings for that matter) without checking them out for themselves using the bible and historical records.

The Word of God is the determining source for ruling out all mis-teachings .... period ... it doesn't matter where the teaching(s) comes from.

Study for yourself .... pray for understanding. Amen
 
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BobRyan

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Mrs Ellen G White suffered some type of head injury didn't she, when she was younger?
As did I.

She was hit by a rock that some child threw at her.

I was run over by a car at the age of 3 - that was driven by a drunk driver. In my case - I was put into a coma and doctors said I was not expected to live.

So "yeah" I get the idea that someone could indeed suffer a head injury as a child. No question about that.

I went on to become a software engineer - and am one of the more athletic guys I know at my age despite having been paralyzed on one side of my body for a few months after I came out of the coma - following the car incident.,
There was some story that I once read, about her being hit by a stone or something like that in the head.
yep - I think that is correct.
And that trauma alone could have been the reason for her strange encounters.
I think you are making a few wild leaps in logic just then.

She has authored a great many books including this commentary on the life of Christ - why don't you spend a little time to read it and see if you detect cognitive impairment.


Her writings were key to establishing a number of medical schools in our denomination. Her statements were very key in establishing training for doctors and nurses in teaching hospitals such a Loma Linda University , which is in one of the few documented "Blue Zones" in the world.
 
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BobRyan

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Now, I do not see why we should believe Mrs White's writings over God's word, do you?
In fact all claims to inspiration are to be tested by the Word of God as we see Paul being tested in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF the things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO"

In 1 Cor 3 we see that some first century NT Christians were saying "I am of Paul" and others "I am of Apollos" - but Paul condemned that practice without also condemning himself, his prophetic gift, his inspired writing or the NT church.

Same holds in this case.
 
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FPhelps

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Now, I do not see why we should believe Mrs White's writings over God's word, do you?

Unless ofcoz, we are servants of Mrs Ellen White & not Jesus.
true, i am an ex sda. Not a big fan of her
 
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Freth

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The Lord loves those little children who try to do right, and he has promised that they shall be in his kingdom. But wicked children God does not love. He will not take them to the beautiful City, for he only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there. One fretful, disobedient child, would spoil all the harmony of heaven. When you feel tempted to speak impatient and fretful, remember the Lord sees you, and will not love you if you do wrong. When you do right and overcome wrong feelings, the Lord smiles upon you.
AY 61.2

Consider these verses.

Psalms 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.​
Amos 5:15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.​
Isaiah 1:18-20 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.​
Psalms 97:10-12 Ye that love the Lord, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart. Rejoice in the Lord, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.​
 
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BobRyan

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true, i am an ex sda. Not a big fan of her
This is a tradition SDA safe forum and we expect that non-SDAs and particularly ex-SDAs are not followers of the writings of Ellen White. This is not the surprising detail that some had supposed.

Our main concern is with "details" as mentioned in the OP.

I addressed a few of them here #14

And other posts on page one also addressed some of those details.


I suppose if one takes an oath to believe the 28 fundamental doctrines...expected to defend...


No doubt if one claims to be a baptist they would be inclined to post in support of certain baptist teachings and one would think that SDAs that chose to join this denomination would tend to post in favor of its doctrines.

I don't think there is news there.
 
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BobRyan

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Anyone who has studied the scriptures knows that the "plan of Salvation" was made before the foundation of the Earth,
wow there we have a tiny snip of your post where it appears that I actually agree with a piece of it -- and so not too surprising that it is also found in centuries old documents written by Ellen White.
"Christ was not alone in making his great sacrifice. It was the fulfilment of the covenant made between him and his Father before the foundation of the world was laid. With clasped hands they had entered into the solemn pledge that Christ would become the surety for the human race if they were overcome by Satan's sophistry" Youth's Instructor - 1900 ( YI June 14, 1900, par. 6)​

The text explicitly states that it was made before the foundation of the world, and it was a clasped-hands agreement between the Father and Son rather than a forced mandate of the Father to the Son

"The purpose and plan of grace existed from all eternity. Before the foundation of the world it was according to the determinate counsel of God that man should be created and endowed with power to do the divine will. The fall of man, with all its consequences, was not hidden from the Omnipotent. Redemption was not an after thought, a plan formulated after the fall of Adam, but an eternal purpose, suffered to be wrought out for the blessing, not only of this atom of a world, but for the good of all the worlds that God had created". (Signs of the Times - 1893) ST February 13, 1893, par. 3​

That text specifically states that it was NOT an "after thought" it was NOT "a plan formulated AFTER the fall".

But "should we expect" such informed clarity on what was being taught in Ellen White's day - among ex-SDAs? some say it is not reasonable to expect them to have such a clear presentation of the historic facts. I am not sure that is the case. Maybe they should indeed be informed on that point though they might be reluctant to post it.

"Sorrow filled heaven as it was realized that man was lost and that the world which God had created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness, and death, and that there was no way of escape for the offender. The whole family of Adam must die. I then saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father. Said my accompanying angel, “He is in close converse with His Father.” The anxiety of the angels seemed to be intense while Jesus was communing with His Father. Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father we could see His person. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with a loveliness which words cannot describe. He then made known to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; that He had been pleading with His Father, and had obtained permission to give His own life as a ransom for the race, to bear their sins, and take the sentence of death upon Himself, thus opening a way whereby they might, through the merits of His blood, find pardon for past transgressions, and by obedience be brought back to the garden from which they were driven. Then they could again have access to the glorious, immortal fruit of the tree of life to which they had now forfeited all right." (Early Writings) EW 126.1​
Wow! it is the "exact opposite" of the ex-SDA post! How is that possible that the real historic position in published statements is exactly the opposite of the suggested accusations made?

It appears to me that the environment for making such false accusations is most "ideal" when the group these accusations are made for - has the absolute least amount of information on the topic specific to the false charge made.

So then why come here to make those false accusations? how does that make any sense at all? why not go some place where the readers are much less likely to have read the public documents that refute the accusation?


Are you like most SDAs that have never read the nine volumes of the Testamonies yet you defend Ellen with passion?

IT appears that you provide the text book example of a failed accusation as if you had not read the basic material. You would not even have needed to read nine-volumes to get this one right - and still you missed it? How is that even possible.​
 
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BobRyan

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I've been reading her writings
They point to The Word
Clarify scripture
Drive one to study The Word
They have been a great help to me

Reading The Acts of the Apostles right now
Fascinating
amen!
 
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BobRyan

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Whoever might have taught/said this is in error .... and Ms. White herself never taught this .... she taught all (with few exceptions) sleep in the grave and the saved for all time will be in the 1st resurrection
Actually there are some statements about "all who die at the time of the sharing of the 3 angels messages" -- i.e. in those years where the 3 angels messages are being promoted by them - are raised in what she calls "special resurrection" at the end of the 7 last plagues just before the day and hour of the 2nd coming so that they along with the 144,000 see the Lord coming and the saints raised.
 
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BobRyan

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Calling the Sabbath (or Sunday) the Lord's day is something men do, and is not exactly Biblical;
Is 58:13
13 “If, because of the Sabbath, you restrain your foot
From doing as you wish on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a pleasure, and the holy day of the Lord honorable,
And honor it, desisting from your own ways,
From seeking your own pleasure
And speaking your own word,''

So John is the one that calls it "The Lord's Day" in Rev 1 and Isaiah calls it "The Holy DAY of the LORD" .. where God says "My Holy Day" in reference to it.

I don't see Isaiah and John at all out of step with each other in that case.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man

Indeed God made HIS Holy day to be a blessing for mankind. He still calls it "MY Holy Day"

, so it would be be more Biblical to call it "mans' day",
That would be ignoring a few key Bible details.
 
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Freth

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I suppose if one takes an oath to believe the 28 fundamental doctrines of which believing in Ellen is one, it would behoove him/her to try to defend Ellen. Ask yourself why the big guns were brought in to defend what she wrote. It is hard to cover up statements like Ellen made in much of her writings. For instance, the following degrading of Jesus making Him less than the Father.

Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost ... I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded His Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with the Father.... Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father, His person could be seen.... He then made known to the angelic host that a way of escape had been made for lost man. He told them that He had been pleading with His Father, and had offered to give His life a ransom, to take the sentence of death upon Himself ... Jesus bade the heavenly host be reconciled to the plan that His Father had accepted... Early Writings, pp. 149-151.

Anyone who has studied the scriptures knows that the "plan of Salvation" was made before the foundation of the Earth, yet Ellen tried to tell us it was after the fall of man. The story also makes Jesus subordinate to the Father and not of one accord.

@BobRyan answered your post before I had a chance to to respond. I will answer your assertions though.
  • I was baptized circa 1983, so my memory is a bit fuzzy. I don't remember an oath, nor anything concerning Ellen White.
  • As you just saw, no big guns were needed to defend what she wrote. Only her own words.
  • If you think Ellen White degrades Jesus in her writings then I would suggest reading Steps to Christ and Desire of Ages.
 
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Bob S

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So then why come here to make those false accusations? how does that make any sense at all? why not go some place where the readers are much less likely to have read the public documents that refute the accusation?
Exactly, I apologize for writing on this forum. I found the topic on "Similar Threads", but didn't realize it was not one from Sabbath and the Law which you know I write on. Please forgive me for intruding.
 
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BobRyan

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Was it ever said that Christ is equal to the Father??

Might some false accusations exist in that regard of the following form "degrading of Jesus making Him less than the Father"?

If such false acqusations exist - do we find published statements to the contrary?

God is the Father of Christ; Christ is the Son of God. To Christ has been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father. All the counsels of God are opened to His Son. 8T 268.3​
In the words of David referred to by Peter—“The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool,” the Father is called Lord, who said unto Christ, who is also Lord, and equal with the Father, “Sit thou on my right hand.” “Therefore,” said Peter, “let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 3SP 271.1​
To save the transgressor of God's law, Christ, the one equal with the Father, came to live heaven before men, that they might learn to know what it is to have heaven in the heart. He illustrated what man must be to be worthy of the precious boon of the life that measures with the life of God. CE 76.2​
 
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BobRyan

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Thanks SB, I didn't realize I wasn't in the forum I always post in. I will have to trace how I got here and started posting. I hope I can remove my posts,
and then today


Exactly, I apologize for writing on this forum. I found the topic on "Similar Threads", but didn't realize it was not one from Sabbath and the Law which you know I write on. Please forgive me for intruding.


That above was posted in response to this...
wow there we have a tiny snip of your post where it appears that I actually agree with a piece of it -- and so not too surprising that it is also found in centuries old documents written by Ellen White.
"Christ was not alone in making his great sacrifice. It was the fulfilment of the covenant made between him and his Father before the foundation of the world was laid. With clasped hands they had entered into the solemn pledge that Christ would become the surety for the human race if they were overcome by Satan's sophistry" Youth's Instructor - 1900 ( YI June 14, 1900, par. 6)​

The text explicitly states that it was made before the foundation of the world, and it was a clasped-hands agreement between the Father and Son rather than a forced mandate of the Father to the Son

"The purpose and plan of grace existed from all eternity. Before the foundation of the world it was according to the determinate counsel of God that man should be created and endowed with power to do the divine will. The fall of man, with all its consequences, was not hidden from the Omnipotent. Redemption was not an after thought, a plan formulated after the fall of Adam, but an eternal purpose, suffered to be wrought out for the blessing, not only of this atom of a world, but for the good of all the worlds that God had created". (Signs of the Times - 1893) ST February 13, 1893, par. 3​

That text specifically states that it was NOT an "after thought" it was NOT "a plan formulated AFTER the fall".

But "should we expect" such informed clarity on what was being taught in Ellen White's day - among ex-SDAs? some say it is not reasonable to expect them to have such a clear presentation of the historic facts. I am not sure that is the case. Maybe they should indeed be informed on that point though they might be reluctant to post it.

"Sorrow filled heaven as it was realized that man was lost and that the world which God had created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness, and death, and that there was no way of escape for the offender. The whole family of Adam must die. I then saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father. Said my accompanying angel, “He is in close converse with His Father.” The anxiety of the angels seemed to be intense while Jesus was communing with His Father. Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came from the Father we could see His person. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and trouble, and shone with a loveliness which words cannot describe. He then made known to the angelic choir that a way of escape had been made for lost man; that He had been pleading with His Father, and had obtained permission to give His own life as a ransom for the race, to bear their sins, and take the sentence of death upon Himself, thus opening a way whereby they might, through the merits of His blood, find pardon for past transgressions, and by obedience be brought back to the garden from which they were driven. Then they could again have access to the glorious, immortal fruit of the tree of life to which they had now forfeited all right." (Early Writings) EW 126.1​
Wow! it is the "exact opposite" of the ex-SDA post! How is that possible that the real historic position in published statements is exactly the opposite of the suggested accusations made?

It appears to me that the environment for making such false accusations is most "ideal" when the group these accusations are made for - has the absolute least amount of information on the topic specific to the false charge made.

So then why come here to make those false accusations? how does that make any sense at all? why not go some place where the readers are much less likely to have read the public documents that refute the accusation?

IT appears that you provide the text book example of a failed accusation as if you had not read the basic material. You would not even have needed to read nine-volumes to get this one right - and still you missed it? How is that even possible.​

my post above includes debunking evidence in published statements from over a century ago - and asks this question

Wow! it is the "exact opposite" of the ex-SDA post! How is that possible that the real historic position in published statements is exactly the opposite of the suggested accusations made?​
It appears to me that the ideal environment for making such false accusations is with a group having least amount of information on the topic specific to the false charge made.​
So then why come here to make those false accusations? how does that make any sense at all? why not go some place where the readers are much less likely to have read the public documents that refute the accusation?​
 
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