Sabbatarianism and the 1689 Confession: Were the Particular Baptists wrong?

[from scratch]

The OP said this




Which is a quote right out of section 22 of the BCF

[FONT=&quot] post #152 shows the BCF language about the "CHANGE" in section 22 to the still binding 4th commandment[/FONT]. (Context is everything)

[FONT=&quot]And here #150 -- with an example of D.L. Moody affirming those very same 7 points

And of Course here - #67 is where the Baptist Confession of faith affirms those very same 7 points regarding all TEN of the TEN Commandments including the 4th.

It has been explained dozens of times.

in Christ,

Bob
[/FONT]

Personally communication has its problems in expression. I doubt very seriously they were taking into account people with opposing beliefs when they wrote their confession. These days we must think about our words much differently.

 

[from scratch]

Sanctuary is pretty abominable, how can anyone stand before the judgment seat of Christ without Christ's intercession? Surely it is none, none is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.

Yet Ellen in all her wisdom says that her flock will be able to stand without Christ, oh the holding up for contempt and trampling underfoot the sacrifice of the Son of God.

QFT!!!

 

[LarryP2]

QFT!!!

Check out the letter Ellen White wrote to a sodomy-committing Preacher with a young girl as victim.

Maybe THAT'S what she meant by a mediator!

 

[BobRyan]

The OP said Christian Sabbath..

The OP said this

So as to not derail my Confessional thread, this will be a thread to talk about the nature of the Christian Sabbath as it is derived from Scripture and espoused in the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.

From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord’s Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished. (2LBCF 22.7)​

Which is a quote right out of section 22 of the BCF

[FONT=&quot] post #152 shows the BCF language about the "CHANGE" in section 22 to the still binding 4th commandment[/FONT]. (Context is everything)

[FONT=&quot]And here #150 -- with an example of D.L. Moody affirming those very same 7 points

And of Course here - #67 is where the Baptist Confession of faith affirms those very same 7 points regarding all TEN of the TEN Commandments including the 4th.

It has been explained dozens of times.

[/FONT]

Personally communication has its problems in expression. I doubt very seriously they were taking into account people with opposing beliefs

Clearly they were not wanting to confine themselves to pointless 'ranting against Seventh-day Adventists" when they came up with that confession. They merely stated their beliefs.

Same with WCF and D.L. Moody etc.

The low-brow tactic of "only attack Seventh-day Adventists no matter what the topic" was clearly not their agenda.

I think we all can agree to that obvious point.

in the case of this thread - the topic actually is the BCF.

I cannot be blamed for the fact that not everything it says is an attack against Seventh-day Adventist doctrine.

Normally this is an incredibly obvious point. But recently some posters are challenged by some basic concepts.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Personally communication has its problems in expression. I doubt very seriously they were taking into account people with opposing beliefs when they wrote their confession. These days we must think about our words much differently.

You are trying to converse with an automatic Adventist Sabbath-Product™®© spam-generating computer that randomly sends out Sabbath spam commercials. It actually cannot respond and interact to a human conversation. Artificial intelligence is still aways off.

 

[BobRyan]

You've seen the testimony of the Law itself,

I have seen what the Bible says on this subject -which is why we have this posted here.

[FONT=&quot]And now we have this post #152 where the BCF language about the "CHANGE" to the still binding 4th commandment is being claimed. There the BCF says it started in Eden as the 4th commandment - Sabbath - seventy-day of the week. But then the BCF says the commandment was bent, edited "Changed" at the cross. Which is an example of "Bending" and "Breaking" that Christ also condemned in Mark 7:6-13 when the Jewish "Magisterium" tried it with their own church tradition.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
The BCF (hint: The subject of this thread and the OP) points to the scriptures that declare the Sabbath Commandment starting with Adam in the Garden of Eden - Gen 2:3 post #219

But you rely on your uninspired extra-Biblical sources -- which is your own imagination as expressed in your posts -- to form an argument that is essentially a straw man. That's waging war on God's Law.

This means I myself will have to click the link for you and post the contents here, because you are using your imagination instead being focused on the details in the discussion.

in Christ,

bob

 

[BobRyan]

you rely on uninspired extra-Biblical sources .

Here is a great example of where it would have paid you to rely less on your imagination and more on the actual details in the discussion. Hint: This thread and the OP is entirely about the statements in the Baptist Confession of Faith. It is not my thread or my choice of topic. Progmonk did that for me -- I am not complaining about his choice of a topic - only his actions in abandoning the subject of his own thread.

Some of the details in this discussion are so obvious that even pro-Sunday sources admit to them.

==========================================

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:3
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.


in the texts above we "see" that it is the Gen 2:3 details "alone" that form the holy, binding, nature of the Sabbath Commandment in the word "THEREFORE" as God uses it in Ex 20:11.

BCF - Sabbath in Eden -

BCF section 22 - points 7 and 8

• As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
• The Sabbath is kept holy to the Lord by those who, after the necessary preparation of their hearts and prior arranging of their common affairs, observe all day a holy rest from their own works[FONT=&quot], [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Section 19[/FONT]

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

Even the 1689 version points to Gen 2:3 as the start of the Sabbath Commandment.



1689 Section 19 (A few examples)

THE LAW OF GOD


19.1 God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart,1 and a specific precept not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.2 By this he bound him and all his descendants to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience. God promised life on fulfilling it, and threatened death on breaching it, and he endued him with power and ability to keep it.3
(1) Gen 1:27; Ecc 7:29; Rom 2:12a,14-15
(2) Gen 2:16-17
(3) Gen 2:16-17; Rom 10:5; Gal 3:10,12

19.2 The same law that was first written in the human heart continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall.1 It was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in TEN commandments (written in two tables) the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six our duty to our fellow beings.3

(1) For the Fourth Commandment: Gen 2:3; Exo 16; Gen 7:4; 8:10,12. For the Fifth Commandment: Gen 37:10. For the Sixth Commandment: Gen 4:3-15. For the Seventh Commandment: Gen 12:17. For the Eighth Commandment: Gen 31:30; 44:8. For the Ninth Commandment: Gen 27:12. For the Tenth Commandment: Gen 6:2; 13:10-11
(2) Rom 2:12a,14-15
(3) Exo 32:15-16; 34:4,28; Deu 10:4

 

[VictorC]

You've seen the testimony of the Law itself, and have shown you rely on uninspired extra-Biblical sources to form an argument that is essentially a straw man. That's waging war on God's Law.

I have seen what the Bible says on this subject -which is why we have this posted here.

[FONT=&quot]And now we have this post #152 where the BCF language

You just proved my point. Instead of the Law, you left it for "BCF language" that can't be reconciled with the Law. You're waging your own personal war on God's Law.

 

[VictorC]

Here is a great example of where it would have paid you to rely less on your imagination and more on the actual details in the discussion. Hint: This thread and the OP is entirely about the statements in the Baptist Confession of Faith. It is not my thread or my choice of topic. Progmonk did that for me -- I am not complaining about his choice of a topic - only his actions in abandoning the subject of his own thread.

Fair enough. Since I don't accept the Baptist Confession of Faith as an authority, you can continue your discussion with others who do. However, Progmonk's recent post quoted this source to affirm their adoption of Sunday observance in lieu of the Sabbath, and if the BCF is an authority you appeal to, then this is what you have adopted.

 

[BobRyan]

you rely on uninspired extra-Biblical sources .

Here is a great example of where it would have paid you to rely less on your imagination and more on the actual details in the discussion. Hint: This thread and the OP is entirely about the statements in the Baptist Confession of Faith. It is not my thread or my choice of topic. Progmonk did that for me -- I am not complaining about his choice of a topic - only his actions in abandoning the subject of his own thread.

Some of the details in this discussion are so obvious that even pro-Sunday sources admit to them.

==========================================

Ex 20:11
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:3
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.


in the texts above we "see" that it is the Gen 2:3 details "alone" that form the holy, binding, nature of the Sabbath Commandment in the word "THEREFORE" as God uses it in Ex 20:11.

BCF - Sabbath in Eden -

BCF section 22 - points 7 and 8

• As it is the law of nature that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, should be set apart for the worship of God, so He has given in His Word a positive, moral and perpetual commandment, binding upon all men, in all ages to this effect. He has particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath to be kept holy for Him. From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
• The Sabbath is kept holy to the Lord by those who, after the necessary preparation of their hearts and prior arranging of their common affairs, observe all day a holy rest from their own works[FONT=&quot], [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Section 19[/FONT]

• God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

• The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

• Besides this law, commonly called the moral law,God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

Even the 1689 version points to Gen 2:3 as the start of the Sabbath Commandment.



1689 Section 19 (A few examples)

THE LAW OF GOD


19.1 God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart,1 and a specific precept not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.2 By this he bound him and all his descendants to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience. God promised life on fulfilling it, and threatened death on breaching it, and he endued him with power and ability to keep it.3
(1) Gen 1:27; Ecc 7:29; Rom 2:12a,14-15
(2) Gen 2:16-17
(3) Gen 2:16-17; Rom 10:5; Gal 3:10,12

19.2 The same law that was first written in the human heart continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall.1 It was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in TEN commandments (written in two tables) the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six our duty to our fellow beings.3

(1) For the Fourth Commandment: Gen 2:3; Exo 16; Gen 7:4; 8:10,12. For the Fifth Commandment: Gen 37:10. For the Sixth Commandment: Gen 4:3-15. For the Seventh Commandment: Gen 12:17. For the Eighth Commandment: Gen 31:30; 44:8. For the Ninth Commandment: Gen 27:12. For the Tenth Commandment: Gen 6:2; 13:10-11
(2) Rom 2:12a,14-15
(3) Exo 32:15-16; 34:4,28; Deu 10:4

Fair enough. Since I don't accept the Baptist Confession of Faith as an authority, you can continue your discussion

1. I also do not accept it as an authority. ProgMonk might
2. See post 2 - most here are at war with all 7 points of the BCF. i differ with just 1 in that regard.
3. The "you and your discussion" is also false - since I am not the author of this thread.

Nice try though - it makes for a good story.

However, Progmonk's recent post quoted this source to affirm their adoption of Sunday observance in lieu of the Sabbath,

Which gets us to "post #2 " where I point out the 7 parts of that argument and show that while most here are at war with all 7 -- I only oppose one - the one where they try to bend the 4th commandment to point it to week-day-1.

and if the BCF is an authority you appeal to, then this is what you have adopted.

Why would I appeal to the BCF as an authority??

I only appeal to it since it is the subject of the thread AND it is an example of a pro-sunday source at war with those who place themselves in direct opposition to God's TEN Commandments.

This adds a level of "challenge" to those who wish to "imagine" and "Pretend" That only SDAs notice the glaring flaws in their argument.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You just proved my point. Instead of the Law, you left it for "BCF language" that can't be reconciled with the Law.

Some are at war with the BCF against all 7 points that it makes in section 19.

WE can all see that the Bible shows the SAbbath commandment for all mankind starting in Gen 2:3

The BCF points to the scriptures that declare the Sabbath Commandment starting with Adam in the Garden of Eden - Gen 2:3 post #219

Sabbath in Eden Gen 2:3 found in the Bible itself for "All mankind' even in the OT: (As we see in the "other" post #2)
(More along these lines from Alex at this link #1 )



=========================================== This was the earlier statement


- as we saw - #149 the 7 point list that even the pro-Sunday Sources affirm. (The same seven point list that we also find here -- #2)


And here #150 -- with an example of D.L. Moody affirming those very same 7 points

And of Course here - #67 where the Baptist Confession of faith affirms those very same 7 points.

And now we have this post #152 where the BCF language about the "CHANGE" to the still binding 4th commandment is being claimed. There the BCF says it started in Eden as the 4th commandment - Sabbath - seventy-day of the week. But then the BCF says the commandment was bent, edited "Changed" at the cross. Which is an example of "Bending" and "Breaking" that Christ also condemned in Mark 7:6-13 when the Jewish "Magisterium" tried it with their own church tradition.


The BCF points to the scriptures that declare the Sabbath Commandment starting with Adam in the Garden of Eden - Gen 2:3 post #219

Sabbath in Eden Gen 2:3 found in the Bible itself for "All mankind' even in the OT: (As we see in the "other" post #2)
(More along these lines from Alex at this link #1 )

And of course even the Catholics seem to love all SEVEN of the primary Baptist Confession of Faith points on the TEN commandments. #167

[FONT=&quot]Seven points - where ALL those at war with God's Ten Commandments - find themselves at war with all 7 points listed. (Which includes the Sabbath binding in Gen 2:3 in Eden - for the people of God as all TEN still are for the saints today).

[/FONT]

 

[VictorC]

<incoherent response deleted>

I would be happy to respond to your post, if you can find it in you to quote and compose a whole sentence for once.

 

[BobRyan]

See post 1.

See post 2 of this thread.

 

[BobRyan]

Some of the all-vitriol - all-acrymony threads pretend that only SDA's care about God's 4th commandment to the point of admitting that it still exists.

But as even the OP on this thread that at-war-with-Ten-Commandments idea is not entirely correct.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

ProgMonk begins on a thread (in OP) pointing to the Baptist Confession of Faith. There we find 7 main points in section 19 that those at war against God's Law can hardly agree with at all. Interesting that ProgMonk finds this fact difficult to deal with. Not sure why.