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Blessed-one

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16th March 2003 at 06:44 PM pace said this in Post #648



No, nooooo :D The Grief, The overwhelming sense of LOSSSSssss, THE PAIN THE PAIN, CAN'T TAKE IT..... :cry:

Spoiler Warning....warning.......warning....warning even!

(Ok you have been warned already, why are you still looking?!)


The why = "Why did you have to die " :p


OF COURSE I liked her :D

cool, i thought you don't like her!
yeah.. how sad... oh

:Spoilers:

i don't get the bit with Aeries and the white materia, does that mean she has it all along?
 
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Susan

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Hey, this is for the FFIX fans:

What is the monster that your characters get the most money for defeating in the game? I need to upgrade the characters' armor, accessories and weapons for the final castle (Memoria at the Iifa Tree)

All my characters are at least level 50, I'm on Disc 4.

I've tried fighting the Yans on Vile Island, but while they provide much AP, they provide little else and cause me to waste huge amounts of healing items in near-losses.
 
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Blessed-one

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cool Brian, glad that you like Kenshin. There're more characters to come, i really like.... (can't tell yet, lol)

*spoiler*

She had it all the time, she got it from her mother, and it was fastened to her hair. When she died, it fell down, and it(holy) awakened on the end.

wow pace, i thought the materia falls out from inside her body, but it is just on her hair!

sorry Susan... can't answer your questions, it was ages ago that i playeed FF7.
 
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pace

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Today at 05:21 AM Blessed-one said this in Post #667

cool Brian, glad that you like Kenshin. There're more characters to come, i really like.... (can't tell yet, lol)



wow pace, i thought the materia falls out from inside her body, but it is just on her hair!

sorry Susan... can't answer your questions, it was ages ago that i playeed FF7.


*spoiler*

She talks to Cloud at the beginning, he asks whats that thing in her hair, she says she got it from her mother and she doesn't know what it is. Then you see it falls from her hair when she's killed by Sephy! Later when you find the Keystone with help from Bugenhagen, and you go inside that falling stream and watch that huge 'crystal' stone, you see she lose it again, only then realize that it was Holy all the time, memorise with Bugen that she told to you about it during the start, and discuss how it will save the earth or not. And you then find out Holy is hidden under Sephy, so you need to find him ;)
 
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pace

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Because I have played it three times, and watched other play it. And read articles over at gamefaqs in between. ;)

The first time I played through it, I didn't understand that much either.

The plot: http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_plot.txt (The stuff about the story is only half the text)

Look at Frequently asked questions, then "c) Cloud Strife" , and you'll get his story and why he acted as he did. It's about 10-20% speculation though, as the story is not easily fathomable.

 
 
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pace

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////////////////////// FF7 SPOILER \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


c) CLOUD STRIFE

i) What's Clouds problem??

Cloud main problem was an arrogant streak, which became his greatest weakness.
He wanted to be part of the gang, but he also felt superior. He was torn by
the desire to belong, but also the desire to be the greatest.

Cloud: "I used to think... they were all stupid."

Tifa: "What?"

Cloud: "You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."

Tifa: "But we were children, back then."

Cloud: "...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with
everyone, but I was never allowed into the group. Then later... I began to
think I was different... That I was different from those immature kids."
(Lifestream Sequence)

When he found out he wasn't the greatest, the shame it induced in him made him
cut himself off from his family and friends and much readier to believe his
memories acquired from Zack were the truth of his life.

ii) Why did he lie about his past?

Cloud didn't lie, he genuinely believed what he was saying when he told
everyone about the Nibelheim incident and being in SOLDIER. The effects of the
experiments he underwent afterwards and his prior problems with shame and low
self-esteem conspired to produce a split personality that was not healed until
Tifa visited his subconscious in the Lifestream. For detailed proof of this
refer to Zack and Clouds Escape from Nibelheim transcribed in the next section.

iii) Why did he obey Sephiroth's commands and why did he freak out?

Cloud is suffering from mental fragility bought about by his conflicting
memories of the past few years. As Sephiroth undermines his confidence
further, his self-doubt becomes crippling. The Jenova cells in Cloud allow
Sephiroth some mental control over him as well (the pains and blackouts he has
in the first half of the game as well as his realisation that Sephiroth was
summoning him to the Great North Cave). His childhood also shows a boy who
wanted to belong, but was afraid to get involved. As he realises he may not be
the man he thought he was but a clone he begins to find the idea of belonging
to Hojo's group of clones desirable and pathetically asks for a number. When
Hojo labels Cloud a failure and turns his back on him his fragile sense of self
finally shatters. This all comes to a head in the Great North Cave sequence.

Believing himself to be a failed clone given the identity of the kind of brave
and popular man he had always thought himself to be (he actually says to Tifa:
"I never lived up to being 'Cloud', Tifa... Maybe one day you'll meet the real
'Cloud'.") he basically has a severe nervous breakdown. Only through the
actions of Tifa, who forces him confront and reveal the truth, does he allow
himself to finally accept that although he wasn't the man he thought he was, he
is still a brave fighter and loyal friend (The Lifestream Sequence). This
coming to terms with himself and his past allows him to heal and reject
Sephiroth's control. After the Lifestream sequence Cloud sums up what had
happened to him thusly:

Cloud: "I left my village looking for glory, but never made it in to
SOLDIER...... I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from
my friend Zack... And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had
seen
in my life..... And I continued to play the charade as if it were true. I'm
physically built like someone in SOLDIER. Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't
that different. It was just the same procedure they use when creating members
of SOLDIER. You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy.
Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells...... For better or for
worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with the Jenova
Reunion. But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing. The
combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weaknesses are
what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm...... Cloud, the master of my own
illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more...... I'm
going to live my life without pretending."

Tifa: "You're sure messed up, Cloud!"

The final sequence of the last battle against Sephiroth is symbolic of Cloud
ridding himself of the last molecules of Jenova and Sephiroth's influence on
him for good.

Charkie also sent me an interesting interpretation on Sephiroths hold over
Cloud connected to the Cabbalistic meaning behind his name:

"I read a chapter about a concept called "gilgul," which means "transmigration
of souls" (AKA reincarnation). Apparently there are different schools of
thought in Kabbalah about the variety and extent to which this occurs. If
applied correctly, this explains a lot about FFVII. The Lifestream would be the
collection of souls, ready to be reborn elsewhere as other humans, or other
living things such as animals or plants (As shown in Bugenhagen's machine), or
possibly even inorganic matter. There's a Kabbalistic idea of "dybbuk," which
is person that died, but who, as an 'unclean' spirit, can attach itself to the
living and basically possess them. This explains Sephiroth's control of Cloud
quite adequately. Sephiroth left his body five years prior to the game's start,
and when he goes back in... Well, did he exude his power over Cloud anymore? I
don't remember... If not, then this is probably what was intended. Of course,
like I said, there are differing - and mutually exclusive - schools of thought
on the subject."

iv) Did he love Tifa or Aeris?

It's my belief he truly loved Tifa. There isn't much in the script to back
this up, but the way they spend the final night together alone before the
assault on the Crater is suggestive of something more than just friendship.
Tifa was prepared to give up her life to look after him when it looked like he
would be mentally and physically disabled for life. Certainly during the
Lifestream sequence its is implied that he had deep feelings for her he could
never express at the time: "......a sealed up secret...... wish......Tender
memories...... no one can ever know........." A large part of that sequence is
devoted to him confessing his desire to be closer to her. Did the arrival of
Aeris change these feelings? I don't think so. For sure Cloud felt very
strongly about her, and they become very close in a short space of time. But I
think her powers distanced herself from him as a romantic object.

v) Just where did Clud go in the Lifestream?

I had to include this from charkie - "For the plot timeline, you might want to
mention that Cloud made a stopover in the world of Final Fantasy Tactics. It
sounds like some little extra that has nothing to do with an actual timeline,
but upon his appearance in FFT (Due to a strange machine), he says the last
thing he remembers is falling into the Lifestream. It's unclear whether the
machine brought him from a different time, world, dimension, or any combination
of the three. It also may be that he left his body for the time of his comatose
state, or maybe FFT is even all in Cloud's head. On an interesting note,
Cloud's trip into the Lifestream is late in FFVII, when Cloud is likely level
40 or over, yet when he appears in FFT, he's at level 1. Is it a Superman/other
world type thing, or is the FFT world much stronger?"

I'm not sure if I should confuse non-FFT players by putting it in the Timeline,
buts it's a fun idea that, that's where he went. Aeris was there as well...
maybe that's where the Lifestream leads to. Oh dear, hope Sephiroth doesn't
get through.
 
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seebs

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Today at 11:26 AM S Walch said this in Post #672

Grr...... *dispises the PSX*

Sega Saturn 4eva!

The Sega saturn actually has better RPG's than the PSX does - most of the PSX RPG type things are FF rip-offs.

Could you make some specific recommendations here? I have Shining the Holy Ark and a couple of others, but I haven't had time to play them yet.
 
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pace

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Susan

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Yeah, that was kind of cool. Although I still don't like Final Fantasy 7. . .if they would do a rerelease with a few edits on the Barret and Cid dialogue (or rework the game where you can leave those characters OUT of your party entirely) I would buy that rerelease.
 
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Susan

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hmm. . .that makes me wonder if someone could hack the dialog in the PC version of FFVII and make a few dialog box edits or skips, without otherwise damaging the game? Has that ever been done? I have NO skill at that kind of thing, nor does anyone I know IRL though. Only some people I know online do. :p


edit to add: Don't worry about me though: I'm never playing it unedited again. I scratched my discs for the PSOne version (all that I have) more than a year ago so I wouldn't sin. :p
 
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