Roy Moore: America “was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery”

[archer75]

Perhaps it's a bit of gallows humor on my part. There is nothing more to do but laugh. And I have hope that in the end, he will be judged in the wrong for his obscenities, even if it is only by a Higher Authority.

Folks like Roy Moore don't deserve my pity, I shouldn't turn my innards in knots over this guy's behavior. That would not be a fruitful use of the little bit of ill-gotten mamon I have. They wouldn't be welcoming me into their eternal mansion, anyways. My pastor has taught me this perspective. Compassion on everyone is a nice ideal, but you only have so much time and energy.

I guess they are my "enemies" in the sense that they would certainly be happy to have me shot if they could get away with it. Just yesterday I was adding a prayer for enemies to my prayer rule booklet. You can find it here: Bp. Nikolai Velimirovich -- Bless My Enemies O Lord

This is important for me. While I don't suffer terrible from "anger" at these people, I think I do need to pray for them.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I'm surprised it took democrats so long to pivot to screaming "RACIST!" That's usually their move.

 

[FireDragon76]

I guess they are my "enemies" in the sense that they would certainly be happy to have me shot if they could get away with it. Just yesterday I was adding a prayer for enemies to my prayer rule booklet. You can find it here: Bp. Nikolai Velimirovich -- Bless My Enemies O Lord

This is important for me. While I don't suffer terrible from "anger" at these people, I think I do need to pray for them.

You are a better Christian than me. As for me, I let my sins be strong. Just don't let it drive you crazy thinking your salvation is dependent on being Mr. Nice. Anglicans do that far too often.

 

[archer75]

You are a better Christian than me. As for me, I let my sins be strong. Just don't let it drive you crazy thinking your salvation is dependent on being Mr. Nice. Anglicans do that far too often.

I'm sure I'm not, but I get so tied in knots sometimes - not even in anger (okay, sometimes, yes, in anger) but just trying to understand how certain things can exist at all - that I think I need to reduce the energy I put into that and pray that they'll help me turn to God.

I'm not sure what it means to "let one's sins be strong." I certainly don't think my salvation is dependent on being Mr. Nice, but I do try to maintain a basic level of civility - and if I'm honest, the reason is probably about half that I believe in civility and half that I don't want to be accused of being an "angry liberal" and then have the conversation permanently derailed. Because as we all know:

a) there is nothing to be angry about, and
b) no conservative was ever angry. Neither did any self-styled conservative build a successful media career by weaponizing anger.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Your attempt as a foreigner to impart your ideas that it is not good for American families to unite, regardless of who they are, is a fail.

God Bless,
SBC

You appear to be having problems with English comprehension. At no time did I suggest it is not good for American families to unite. Please reread my post and use dictionary as required. Thank you.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

The important thing to remember is regardless of RACE, people all over the globe have been separated from their families, and still are today. And silly to think that only WHITE people enjoy being with their own families.

The important thing to remember is the time you are saying was good for families was a time when Blacks had their families ripped apart by slave owners as a normal part of life.

If slave owners are ripping apart families, how can it be a good time for families? Unless of course you only count White families in your evaluation but ignore Black families.

I do understand that black people were not considered equal to white people in that time. Sadly in 21st century some people still seem to have same feelings, like KKK and Nazis, some of whom Trump called "very fine people". Imagine, in 21st century thinking blacks are less human than whites makes you "very fine person" in POTUS opinion. Sad!

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

I'm surprised it took democrats so long to pivot to screaming "RACIST!" That's usually their move.

I'm surprised it took so long for republicans to scream "racist" in attempt to create new reality where racism never happens, or racism is acceptable and carried out by "some very fine people" (Trump), depending on narrative being sought.

 

[FireDragon76]

Slavery is the main reason the black nuclear family is a weaker institution among African-Americans.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I'm surprised it took so long for republicans to scream "racist" in attempt to create new reality where racism never happens, or racism is acceptable, depending on narrative being sought.

Ah yes, the Pee Wee Herman gambit.

 

[Yonny Costopoulis]

Ah yes, the Pee Wee Herman gambit.

Oh no. You have moved up to name calling. This shows improvement in your debate skills from previous posts. Well done.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Oh no. You have moved up to name calling.

Ummmmmm, nooooooo, I didn't. But thanks anyway?

 

[Rion]

Slavery is the main reason the black nuclear family is a weaker institution among African-Americans.

That's far too simplistic. Had the Moynihan report not been rejected 50 years ago, most black families would be far better off now.

 

[SBC]

"I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery — they cared for one another." -Roy Moore

So. Roy Moore said that families were at that time united, clearly meaning that they are now not united or less united.

Why might one think this?

Roy Moore was responding to a question ~ according to the article ~

"When asked earlier this year when America was last great"....

Moore excepted slaves, uh, who were not then Americans, or particularly families united. He spoke of families in the past being more united, and? In his opinion, American families seem to be not so united.

Perhaps you think American families are united. And? Some people don't. And?

American families IMO are deeply divided because of numerous things ~
from politics, to alternative life styles, to urban vs rural lifestyle, to finances, to foreigners entering illegally, to religion, and a whole host of other things, which was not typically case, before the civil war.
God Bless,
SBC

 

[JackRT]

Slavery is the main reason the black nuclear family is a weaker institution among African-Americans.

Moore mentions "strong family values". At the same time those good families were breaking up slave families selling off fathers and mothers and children separately. Family values indeed.

 

[SBC]

@SBC, I think I sort of followed what you said above. Is the idea that he said "although" we had slavery, "America" (the USA, I guess) was great at that time because "families were united"?

I think you missed his point.
Families were united much more before the CW than today, and he excepted slaves, because that was not the case for them.

I guess my reply is that I don't think "great" should be applied to a nation state in which owning humans is legal.

He was not highlighting slavery, he excepted it out of his remark. IOW, he was not talking about slavery being great, or their family unity.

Not only owning them, but whipping them, stealing their labor, and destroying their families as a matter of course. Further, the claim that "family togetherness" "makes up for it" is weak, because

1) There were some 4 million slaves out of a total population of some 31 million in 1860 - about 13% of the population couldn't count on any kind of family unity. Because they were legally considered property and could be broken up like a set of dishes.
2) It hasn't been shown that any families were "more united" at that time than they are now.

So, if one shows why the slaves don't count and proves that families are and have been, on the whole, less united since that time, then one can support Moore's remark. Otherwise, it's not possible.

Noted. You see the word slavery, and think that was the topic. It wasn't.
If slavery IS a topic you want to talk about, why not start a thread, where actual past slaves comments about their own life can be revealed instead of only hearsay and opinions?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[archer75]

Roy Moore was responding to a question ~ according to the article ~

"When asked earlier this year when America was last great"....

Moore excepted slaves, uh, who were not then Americans, or particularly families united. He spoke of families in the past being more united, and? In his opinion, American families seem to be not so united.

Perhaps you think American families are united. And? Some people don't. And?

American families IMO are deeply divided because of numerous things ~
from politics, to alternative life styles, to urban vs rural lifestyle, to finances, to foreigners entering illegally, to religion, and a whole host of other things, which was not typically case, before the civil war.
God Bless,
SBC

You have misunderstood Moore. He did not "except" slaves.

I can't understand your sentence towards the end: "Moore excepted slaves, uh, who were not then Americans, or particularly families united." What does "particularly families united mean"?

 

[archer75]

I think you missed his point.
Families were united much more before the CW than today, and he excepted slaves, because that was not the case for them.



He was not highlighting slavery, he excepted it out of his remark. IOW, he was not talking about slavery being great, or their family unity.



Noted. You see the word slavery, and think that was the topic. It wasn't.
If slavery IS a topic you want to talk about, why not start a thread, where actual past slaves comments about their own life can be revealed instead of only hearsay and opinions?

God Bless,
SBC

Again, he did not except slaves. He said that America was great at that time because families were more united "even though we had slavery." He did not say that slave families were not united.

I didn't bring up slavery. Roy Moore did. And it's in the very topic of this thread. Therefore, it is on-topic.

I'm sure that this thread can take some comments from former slaves about their lives.

 

[Elliewaves]

He probably also thought it was a great time because older men quite often wed very young teenage girls. And the girls either had to just take it and get used to it or their older husband could commit them to an institution for female hysterics and move on to the next young thing. Or had forced affairs with young slave women while their wife looked the other way. It would have been a great time for him in Alabama. if he didn't die of cholera or diptheria or the gripe or an STD first, after the leeches and the bleeding were of no help.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's far too simplistic. Had the Moynihan report not been rejected 50 years ago, most black families would be far better off now.

You got me to look that one up, I'll have to do research on it (I've never heard of the Moynihan report).

edit: I found this, it seems to suggest the Moynihan report was never fully implemented, though conservatives made hay of its analysis of the structure of black families to argue that self-help was all that was necessary: The Moynihan Report

I'm not sure how I see it downplays the problems that slavery caused for the black family, the report is merely stating matter-of-factly that the black community has patterns of living that make equality with whites difficult, aside from just passing civil rights laws. Today we would see structural racism, going back to slavery, as part of that behavior, at least some of us would.

 

[archer75]

He probably also thought it was a great time because older men quite often wed very young teenage girls. Or had forced affairs with young slave women. It would have been a great time for him in Alabama.

These Roy Moores just don't want to live in the world. They're desperate to hide from it in an imaginary golden age.

Here's an idea: if you think the antebellum US was so great, get in a time machine and go spend the rest of your life there. But you don't get to pick who you are. That's chosen at random.