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Roy Moore: America “was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery”

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by tulc, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. tulc

    tulc loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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    Roy Moore: America "was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery"
    tulc(thought America was better after slavery) :wave:
     
  2. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree. I think that treating people as objects to be traded and exploited for profit is beneath the dignity of man.
     
  3. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi tulc,

    I must agree that I never considered the colonial days of slavery and thereafter until the civil war, as being the great days of America. I just can't ever agree that a society making money off the slave labor of others as being a great thing.

    I've always thought of America's greatest days as being those after WWII until about the 80's. I've always considered them as being the days of this nation when it's people experienced the most overall peace, although there was still a lot of racial inequality. They were days when God was pretty well accepted across the country and we weren't so divided into so many sub-groups of disagreement as we seem to be today. I believe that it is these days when families were most united.

    God bless you,
    In Christ, ted
     
  4. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I guess Moore didn't count the slave families who were broken up and sold in different directions.
     
  5. Brotherly Spirit

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    Not the best way to promote family values. Though it's true the past had more stable families, it needs to be related to the present. A message of family values that doesn't look back; but makes it clear it's about what benefits society as a whole, including other benefits gained.

    Also I don't understand the support for him. Every time I read something about him, it's never good. He easily could had said the 1980's/90's when we had conservative resurgence and economic boom. Even could had said the 1950's/1960's before the decline of family. The latter would been more defensible within the context of family values itself. Odd to think we'd need to go all the way back to the days of slavery to been great or had families.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  6. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My guess? It's just a bone thrown to people who actually pine for the days of chattel slavery.
     
  7. Yonny Costopoulis

    Yonny Costopoulis Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. A bone to the base.

    Just as Trump's statement that some KKK and Nazis are "very fine people".
     
  8. Brotherly Spirit

    Brotherly Spirit Member

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    It's short-sighted to get some votes now, while further causing division. Eventually it'll backfire when certain parts of the base shrink and others are turned away. As a party and movement, Republicans and conservatives need to distance themselves from past prejudice and bigotry. Doing more to expand their base to not rely on certain people who aren't contributing to it's future. This includes reaching the same people who are being alienated.
     
  9. SBC

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    America is the Nation as a whole.
    Slavery was a State Issue, per the Individual Sovereign States Laws, as was guaranteed to each individual sovereign State, by the US Fed Constitution.

    The Federations involvement with the States citizens had to do with then, as it is now, Property, Census, Taxation, Voting, Foreign Citizens, etc.

    In context ~ I agree with Moore, that America as a whole was great when families were united, despite slavery, in some states.

    You focused on the slavery, while Moore, not ignoring slavery, was focused on the unity of families.
    Slavery was absolved, nearly 150 years ago, yet in context, unity of families is waning, which was the point.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
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  10. Yonny Costopoulis

    Yonny Costopoulis Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!

    Who cares if slavery destroyed BLACK families and on a normal basis ripped them apart?

    The important thing is that it help bring WHITE families together!

    So it MUST have been a time of family unity.

    That is correct, is it not?
     
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  11. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    He was stating his opinion.

    And now you are stating your opinion.

    It was. Past American families seemed more united. Present American families seem more apart.

    Family values are only a part of that which separates families. So also does distance and religious beliefs.

    Then realize who is the author, his political standing, of what you read. Then wonder, if the author actually knows Moore, and what is their intent.

    He wasn't going back to the days of slavery, he simply acknowledged even thou slavery existed in the US, that American families seemed more United then today. Oh, and so did you...

    He didn't go back to the days of slavery. He said America, which indicates America. In which families throughout the history of America have been historically united. He could have ignored mentioning slavery, which everyone knows their families were not typically united. Then as now, all the slavery whiners, could have made his remarks about slaves his point. It was not his point. As he clearly stated his point was about the decline of American family unity, just as you agreed.

    I don't understand the vilification of him, without proof.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  12. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Gee, I don't know,
    Who cares that the Hebrews were in bondage for 400 years in Egypt?
    ....Why did the freed Hebrews leave Egypt?
    Who offered financing their leaving? The Egyptians.
    Who cares that Europeans sent tens of thousands WHITE men as prisoners to the American colonies to separate them from their families and do labor for the king?
    ....Why did only a few return after gaining freedom?
    ....Who offered to finance their return to Europe? No one.
    Who cares that BLACKS were captured in Africa, by BLACK Africans and sold to WHITE traders?
    ....Why did a FEW Black former slaves (in complaint of their treatment in America) return to Africa?
    ....Who offered to finance their traveling to Africa? The US government.

    Why does the word SLAVE trip your trigger? Anyone subject to a MASTER, is the Subject, of a Master, regardless of what they are called.

    Hebrews were SUBJECT TO, the Egyptians.
    Hebrews were SUBJECT TO, their God.
    Hebrews were SUBJECT TO, their tribal father.
    Whites were SUBJECT TO, their king.
    Blacks were SUBJECT TO, their tribes.
    Christians are SUBJECT TO, their tribal father.
    Christians are SUBJECT TO, their God.
    Some Americans are SUBJECT TO, their government Master.
    Some Americans are the MASTER of their government Servants.
    Servants are SUBJECT TO, their Master.
    Prisoners are SUBJECT TO, their Master.

    Blacks, Whites, Chinese, Indians, etc. have all experience being SUBJECT TO....a Master.

    Some Master / Subject relationships interrupt the Subjects family relationships, some don't.
    Some Master / Subject relationship are involuntary, some are voluntary.

    No particular RACE has been excepted from INVOLUNTARY or VOLUNTARY Master / Subject relationships.

    To pretend otherwise is ludicrous.
    And to pretend slavery, kidnapping, involuntary forced or voluntary Master / Subject, does not exist world wide TODAY, is ludicrous.

    The important thing to remember is regardless of RACE, people all over the globe have been separated from their families, and still are today. And silly to think that only WHITE people enjoy being with their own families.

    Approx 150 years ago, it was not always the case, but more difficult for Black families to be united with their families, just as approx. 200 + years ago, thousands of white people were sent to the American colonies against their will and separated from their families. Awe, what about them....?

    Move on man, you didn't live 100+ years ago and neither did I, nor am I responsible for what men did or didn't do 100+ years ago, or this day.
    You can decide like we do in America, who your Master is or isn't, and if you want to or don't want to be in unity with your family.

    I happen to agree with Trump, with Moore, in the context of points they have made, that family unity is a good thing for American families.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  13. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    On what grounds is it thought that during the "slave days" any families were more "united"?
     
  14. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    I feel like Gomez Adams watching with glee as the model trains wreck, when I hear about this guy in the news.
     
  15. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'd like to learn your glee-technique...I've failed to enjoy this at all.
     
  16. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Before "grounds" can be established.... First reveal....
    Who said their thoughts were...."that during the "slave days" any families were more "united""?

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  17. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "I think it was great at the time when families were united — even though we had slavery — they cared for one another." -Roy Moore

    So. Roy Moore said that families were at that time united, clearly meaning that they are now not united or less united.

    Why might one think this?
     
  18. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    Perhaps it's a bit of gallows humor on my part. There is nothing more to do but laugh. And I have hope that in the end, he will be judged in the wrong for his obscenities, even if it is only by a Higher Authority.

    Folks like Roy Moore don't deserve my pity, I shouldn't turn my innards in knots over this guy's behavior. That would not be a fruitful use of the little bit of ill-gotten mamon I have. They wouldn't be welcoming me into their eternal mansion, anyways. My pastor has taught me this perspective. Compassion on everyone is a nice ideal, but you only have so much time and energy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  19. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Your attempt as a foreigner to impart your ideas that it is not good for American families to unite, regardless of who they are, is a fail.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  20. hengesthorsa

    hengesthorsa Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @SBC, I think I sort of followed what you said above. Is the idea that he said "although" we had slavery, "America" (the USA, I guess) was great at that time because "families were united"?

    I guess my reply is that I don't think "great" should be applied to a nation state in which owning humans is legal. Not only owning them, but whipping them, stealing their labor, and destroying their families as a matter of course. Further, the claim that "family togetherness" "makes up for it" is weak, because

    1) There were some 4 million slaves out of a total population of some 31 million in 1860 - about 13% of the population couldn't count on any kind of family unity. Because they were legally considered property and could be broken up like a set of dishes.
    2) It hasn't been shown that any families were "more united" at that time than they are now.

    So, if one shows why the slaves don't count and proves that families are and have been, on the whole, less united since that time, then one can support Moore's remark. Otherwise, it's not possible.
     
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