Round 3D Earth - flat Maps - sphere

[d taylor]

I asked if it LOOKS like a dome. Not whether it is one.

-
​

And i said no because when i am outside looking at the sky it is for the purpose of working on a landscape painting. So i see the sky as a backdrop to the land i am painting.

 

[rambot]

-
​

And i said no because when i am outside looking at the sky it is for the purpose of working on a landscape painting. So i see the sky as a backdrop to the land i am painting.

And when you look straight up you see land there too? No. You can't just ignore that

 

[d taylor]

And when you look straight up you see land there too? No. You can't just ignore that

-
​

If i am outside painting a landscape why would i look up where there is no land. Obviously you have not a single clue about landscape painting.

 

[rambot]

-
​

If i am outside painting a landscape why would i look up where there is no land. Obviously you have not a single clue about landscape painting.

Lol! It's true. But I'm actually not talking about OnLY landscape painting.
My understanding of how I view the sky is not based on a single hobby I enjoy and i dont understand why your is.
Moreso, an understanding that ignores 80% of the sky

 

[d taylor]

Lol! It's true. But I'm actually not talking about OnLY landscape painting.
My understanding of how I view the sky is not based on a single hobby I enjoy and i dont understand why your is.
Moreso, an understanding that ignores 80% of the sky

-
​

Well it is not a hobby as i have made my living by art, teaching and painting. When i was younger i never look up at the sky i was to busy playing, fishing, etc... Observing the sky was something i just did not do and i never gave a thought. I has other interest. I am close to 60 3 months away and until about 2017 i had never given the sky a thought. It only became an interest after learning The Bible's creation account in Gensis 1

 

[rambot]

-
​

Well it is not a hobby as i have made my living by art, teaching and painting. When i was younger i never look up at the sky i was to busy playing, fishing, etc... Observing the sky was something i just did not do and i never gave a thought. I has other interest. I am close to 60 3 months away and until about 2017 i had never given the sky a thought. It only became an interest after learning The Bible's creation account in Gensis 1

To summarize:
You never looked up into the sky either when you are kid or now. You only see the sky as a backdrop to the land. You've never considered that standing under the sky is more like a dome than a backdrop.

 

[The Liturgist]

-
​

Sure if the person is letting science dictate their Bible understanding

The idea that we are subordinating our understanding of Scripture to secular authorities simply because we acknowledge the obvious truth that the world is round, which we can assert based simply from such minor details as the travel time on airline flights between the Southern continents, which Flat Earthers claimed did not exist and were impossible (and tried to use the temporary interruption of such services during the Covid pandemic as proof) and the decrease in atmospheric pressure between sea level and mountainous regions, is profoundly offensive.

It represents an implication that people who do not believe in a flat Earth are somehow lacking in piety.

 

[BobRyan]

The large number of observed lunar eclipses at every position all over the sky -- proves the earth is round -- and in fact is a sphere.

 

[Edwin Wright]

I think a lot of people can see how water in the seas - is separated from water in the upper atmosphere by an "expanse" of atmosphere.

My point is that the "circle" is also viewed as "sphere" and "globe" in Is 40:22

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Aramaic Bible - Plain English : "And him who sits on the sphere of The Earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretched out the Heavens like a vaulted bowl, and stretched them out as a tent for a dwelling

Douay-Rheims Bible "It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

You are quoting from the corrupted Challoner version of the Douay-Rheims Holy Bible. The Latin Vulgate and the original Douay-Rheims refer to “gyrum terrae” and “compass of the earth” respectively, both of which mean circle of the earth. For further clarification, see The Corrupted Challoner Revision of the Douay-Rheims Holy Bible (1749–1752).

 

[The Liturgist]

You are quoting from the corrupted Challoner version of the Douay-Rheims Holy Bible.

The Challoner version is not corrupted. Furthermore, my friend @BobRyan surprised me by using other translations, which corroborate the Challoner Douai Rheims, for example, the Peshitta.

 

[The Liturgist]

The large number of observed lunar eclipses at every position all over the sky -- proves the earth is round -- and in fact is a sphere.

Well, technically its an oblate spheroid, but yes, indeed, for almost all practical purposes it is a sphere. Albeit not a smooth polished sphere but rather one with an irregular textured surface which can make the smooth polished surface of one’s airplane irregular and textured if someone is too cheap to buy an avionics system with enhanced GPWS.

Also eGPWS wouldn’t work if the world were flat, since it depends on a topological database that is mapped to the spherical surface of the planet.

 

[The Liturgist]

I think a lot of people can see how water in the seas - is separated from water in the upper atmosphere by an "expanse" of atmosphere.

My point is that the "circle" is also viewed as "sphere" and "globe" in Is 40:22

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Aramaic Bible - Plain English : "And him who sits on the sphere of The Earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretched out the Heavens like a vaulted bowl, and stretched them out as a tent for a dwelling

Douay-Rheims Bible "It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Very nice post. And I agree with your interpretation of the separation of waters, although I would add to it the waters on other celestial bodies, for example, the ice caps on Mars, or the comets, or possibly on Europa or Titan, which are thought might have subterranean liquid water.

 

[Edwin Wright]

The Challoner version is not corrupted. Furthermore, my friend @BobRyan surprised me by using other translations, which corroborate the Challoner Douai Rheims, for example, the Peshitta.

The (1749-1752) Challoner version (actually revision) is simply NOT the real Douay-Rheims of 1582/1609/1610 or its consolidated 1635 reprint thereof. Read the entry from The Catholic Encyclopedia (1909) quoted in the link that I provided. I am not knowledgeable concerning the Peshitta, but to imply that it "corroborates" what in essence is Challoner's erroneous translation of "gyrum terrae" from the Latin Vulgate or corrupt revision of "compass of the earth" from the Douay-Rheims is to suggest an unfounded consensus.

 

[The Liturgist]

is simply NOT the real Douay-Rheims of 1582/1609/1610 or its consolidated 1635 reprint thereof.

Indeed: unlike the original Douai-Rheims, it is actually a complete translation.

Read the entry from The Catholic Encyclopedia (1909) quoted in the link that I provided.

The Catholic Encyclopedia does not have “a 1909 edition”. It has a first edition, published in 1905-1912, and a slightly enlarged second edition published 1913-14 with some later supplements in 1918 and 1922. Furthermore, you should be aware that it is not an official publication of the Roman Catholic Church (such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church) and is known to be obsolete on several key issues.

Also, I am sure my traditional Catholic friend @chevyontheriver would share my bemusement at a Roman Catholic arguing for a flat Earth. I’m pretty sure that contradicts the writings of several known Catholic saints, since there was, you know, the whole evangelization of Africa, South America and the South Pacific, which would have been impossible on a flat Earth for reasons relating to distance.

 

[Edwin Wright]

Indeed: unlike the original Douai-Rheims, it is actually a complete translation.



The Catholic Encyclopedia was published in 1911. Furthermore, you should be aware that it is not an official publication of the Roman Catholic Church (such as the Catechism of the Catholic Church) and is known to be obsolete on several key issues.

Also, I am sure my traditional Catholic friend @chevyontheriver would share my bemusement at a Roman Catholic arguing for a flat Earth. I’m pretty sure that contradicts the writings of several known Catholic saints, since there was, you know, the whole evangelization of Africa, South America and the South Pacific, which would have been impossible on a flat Earth for reasons relating to distance.

The link provides you with a definitive reference for the 1909 edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia. Period. Rather than address the obvious corruption of Isaiah 40:22 in the Challoner revision, you cast dispersions on both the 1909 edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia and the original (complete) Douay-Rheims that was translated from the Latin Vulgate. My point is that the Challoner revision is a corruption of the original Douay-Rheims of which Isaiah 40:22 is objective evidence in terms of scriptural references in the shape of the earth debate. If you have objective evidence to the contrary, point it out. If not, please refrain from the straw man responses so prevalent on this forum.

 

[The Liturgist]

The link provides you with a definitive reference for the 1909 edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia. Period.

More of a question mark than a period I’m afraid since there is, in point of fact (pun most definitely intended) no 1909 edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia.

A complete publication history along with links to scans of the definite 1913-14 edition is available here: The Catholic Encyclopedia

 

[The Liturgist]

If not, please refrain from the straw man responses so prevalent on this forum.

I haven’t provided a strawman response. A strawman would represent a mischaracterization of your argument, in order to make it easier to argue against, which I have not done - what I have done is objected to the idea that the Challoner is corrupted, which implies intentional malice.

If you want actual evidence as to the shape of the Earth, the fact that it is an oblate spheroid can be ascertained by comparing the travel times of commercial flights between equidistant points descending in latitude, which will show a consistency with the “great circle route” which is indicated by the shortest path between two points on a globe.

There are, contrary to the claims of some flat Earth advocates, airline flights connecting Australia to Africa, Africa to South America, and South America to Australia, which make the point even more clear.

 

[Edwin Wright]

I haven’t provided a strawman response. A strawman would represent a mischaracterization of your argument, in order to make it easier to argue against, which I have not done - what I have done is objected to the idea that the Challoner is corrupted, which implies intentional malice.

If you want actual evidence as to the shape of the Earth, the fact that it is an oblate spheroid can be ascertained by comparing the travel times of commercial flights between equidistant points descending in latitude, which will show a consistency with the “great circle route” which is indicated by the shortest path between two points on a globe.

There are, contrary to the claims of some flat Earth advocates, airline flights connecting Australia to Africa, Africa to South America, and South America to Australia, which make the point even more clear.

As you may know, the original Douay-Rheims Holy Bible was heavily suppressed in seventeenth England, leading to the martyrdom of many Catholic Englishmen. By the time the suppression was lifted, the only revision required was that of modernizing the spelling, not changing the words. Challoner would have known Latin well enough to have read gyrum terrae as compass of the earth. But he chose to revise the phrase as globe. The link that I provided explains the logical impossibility of Challoner's revision. Moreover, he eliminated probably a thousand pages of notes and annotations from the original Douay-Rheims. You don't call that corruption or malice? I do.

But, yes, your responses are strawman because you have not dealt with the fact of Challoner's mistranslation of the phrase, an obviously verifiable fact, but instead have cast dispersions on the sources and have introduced new arguments that in your view are subsumed under the heliocentric model. Focus on the fact of the argument at hand and avoid tangential arguments. Do you agree that Challoner's globe of the earth is a corruption of the original Douay-Rheims' compass of the earth? YES or NO?

 

[Edwin Wright]

More of a question mark than a period I’m afraid since there is, in point of fact (pun most definitely intended) no 1909 edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia.

A complete publication history along with links to scans of the definite 1913-14 edition is available here: The Catholic Encyclopedia

Here is the Internet Archive link to the 1909 volume referenced in the previous link provided. Check the entry titled, Douay Bible.

The Catholic encyclopedia; an international work of reference on the constitution, doctrine, discipline, and history of the Catholic Church : Herbermann, Charles George, 1840-1916 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

30 40

archive.org

 

[chevyontheriver]

Also, I am sure my traditional Catholic friend @chevyontheriver would share my bemusement at a Roman Catholic arguing for a flat Earth. I’m pretty sure that contradicts the writings of several known Catholic saints, since there was, you know, the whole evangelization of Africa, South America and the South Pacific, which would have been impossible on a flat Earth for reasons relating to distance.

I'm not sure it's bemusement. More like incomprehension that any sort of Christian can be so distrusting of physics and astronomy and geography and geology as to put non-systematic statements of the Bible over what we ought to know of our planet. It is a fundamental betrayal of truth while thinking one is committed to it. We know that people have walked across Antarctica. We know that people have flown over Antarctica. We know people have observed the apparent path of the sun in Antarctica observing what can only be possible from a spheroid. We can predict eclipses. We can measure the radius of the earth. We can observe the earth from space. I have a picture taken by the Apollo astronauts showing a LEM descending to the surface of the moon with the earth in the background. The earth IS spheroid. Maintaining that it is not is incomprehensible. The mental gymnastics involved in maintaining the earth is flat are breathtaking. I get it that a Fundamentalist might be tempted to engage in that endeavor. After all, if the Bible says the earth is flat then it's a done deal. Except in Job the earth is a sphere hanging from a string. For a Catholic to fall into the same cognitive trap because such and such Church Father said something like that, or some pope said something like that, is an infalliblism that is astounding. We may as well go out and bless all homosexual partnerships, have to bless them even, because pope Francis approved of it. Argh.