Rome and America, A Comparative Analysis

[Agrippa]

I agree that the attacks were necessary to end the war, but it was NOT necessary to drop them on cities. An empty stretch of land or mountain would have been equally impressive. Rather than shooting them in the head, shoot the ground next to them and say "Do it or the next one flies at your skull." We didnt NEED to nuke the cities, we WANTED to. We DID need to use nukes, but not on civilian targets, innocent people

The supply of nuclear devices was limited. The largest number I've seen available before the start of the invasion in Japan in November was 4. Thus, each had to be used as if the Japanese would not have surrendered. What if we use one on Mt. Fuji (as a random example) and the Japanese decide not to surrender? Then we've used up 1/4 of our supply of A-bombs. So, instead, we hit Hiroshima, the HQ of a Japanese army, home to 4,000 officers in Hiroshima Castle alone and the city with the highest soldier:civilian ratio in Japan. Kyoto, a city with a larger population and a great deal of religious significance, was removed from the target list because it lacked any military value. The US went after the best target it could find.

 

[Agrippa]

There are a number of superficial similarities between Rome and the US that have been mentioned in this thread. But those similarities are only superficial. One can also name a multitude of superficial differences: a clear line of succession in the US, a corresponding lack of civil wars in the US compared to Rome, etc. As I said, however, these similarities and differences are merely superficial and did not cause the fall of the empire. The primary cause of the fall of the Western Roman Empire was the barbarian invasions of the 5th century caused by the movement of the Huns off the Russian steppes. The German tribes crippled the Western Empire's ability to collect tax revenues. Without money, the Emperor was essentially powerless to stem the decline. Culture, Christianity, and the other things mentioned had only a minor role to play. The Empire could have survived those events if the Germans had not crossed the Rhine. Notice that the Eastern Roman Empire managed to survive until 1453. How? It wasn't significantly different from the West; it wouldn't become Greek until the reign of Heraclius in the early 7th century. The Eastern Emperors had two advantages: the thick walls of Constantinople and the Turkish Straits. The Emperors could sit in Constantinople and watch the German tribesman eat their lunches outside while collecting tax revenues from Anatolia, Syria, and Egypt. So, while the US is vulnerable to a complete loss of tax revenue like the Western Empire, the same can be said of every government in the world.

 

[OhhJim]

Sure - we've added Iraq and Afghanistan and France and Mexico . . . .

I was going to add to the discussion, but you've convinced me that you either aren't serious, or have no clue what's going on in the world.

 

[Spawn]

I was going to add to the discussion, but you've convinced me that you either aren't serious, or have no clue what's going on in the world.

Note to self - becareful when making jokes sometimes people don't get them.

 

[Pentecostal Boy]

America has been on a steady DECLINE for decades now. They're really going down fast now that Bush is in his second term. The harder they close their fist the more slip through their fingers.

How do you figure We're the richest nation on earth and like someone said before we're not an empire GAston I didn't say that you said that.By the way.Britain hasn't fallen or else there wouldn't Be a U.K. personally I think that the U.S. will be here til after the rapture of the church.Oh by the way gaston Bush is a great PRisdent.OH by the way Gaston how would you know??????
YOur not from AMerica.You live in Canada!!!!!Sorry but that was a little weird you cominting(can't spell good can I?)on our president when ever he's not yours he's better than KERRY!

 

[Spawn]

Funny that the left also said that Reagan was pushing this country into decline too . . . .

 

[Illuminatus]

How do you figure We're the richest nation on earth and like someone said before we're not an empire GAston I didn't say that you said that.By the way.Britain hasn't fallen or else there wouldn't Be a U.K. personally I think that the U.S. will be here til after the rapture of the church.Oh by the way gaston Bush is a great PRisdent.OH by the way Gaston how would you know??????
YOur not from AMerica.You live in Canada!!!!!Sorry but that was a little weird you cominting(can't spell good can I?)on our president when ever he's not yours he's better than KERRY!

Well, for starters, you're not the richest nation on earth, at least if you're looking at GDP. Secondly, just because someone isn't American doesn't mean they're blind. This is something you seem not to have noticed, there is life outside the US. You aren't just an American, you're a member of the world community, and your president doesn't seem to care.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Well, for starters, you're not the richest nation on earth, at least if you're looking at GDP. Secondly, just because someone isn't American doesn't mean they're blind. This is something you seem not to have noticed, there is life outside the US. You aren't just an American, you're a member of the world community, and your president doesn't seem to care.

Of this I am forced to agree with. There are times when I actually feel ashamed to be an American. The day when I heard they were trying to make a constitutional amendment to deny gay marraige perminantly was one of those times

 

[Pentecostal Boy]

Gay marriage is evil!!!It speeks against it in the bible to!ANd by the way yes we are the richest nation.ANd how are we not helping people outside of us we liberated the IRaqui people!I know there's life outside of here.Verus shame on you that's all that I can say.MAd that we tried to make gay marriage illegal.SHame upon you.Do you think other nations would be where they are today if it wasn't for us?NO I don't think so.Europe might still be destroyed Japan might still be week and the Axis powers would of won.Now if that's the kind of world a person would ike to live in than I'm sorry to tell you but you have, and I quote, "have serious issues"!God has blessed America.We wouldn't be a nation if he hasn't blessed us.We're a super power yes but that doesn't make us like ROme.The U.K. is a super power to.But do you ever call them anything no!

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Gay marriage is evil!!!It speeks against it in the bible to!ANd by the way yes we are the richest nation.ANd how are we not helping people outside of us we liberated the IRaqui people!I know there's life outside of here.Verus shame on you that's all that I can say.MAd that we tried to make gay marriage illegal.SHame upon you.Do you think other nations would be where they are today if it wasn't for us?NO I don't think so.Europe might still be destroyed Japan might still be week and the Axis powers would of won.Now if that's the kind of world a person would ike to live in than I'm sorry to tell you but you have, and I quote, "have serious issues"!God has blessed America.We wouldn't be a nation if he hasn't blessed us.We're a super power yes but that doesn't make us like ROme.The U.K. is a super power to.But do you ever call them anything no!

Yet ANNOTHER reason why I am often times ashamed to call myself American. I REALLY hope you'll wise up as the years go by

 

[Pentecostal Boy]

Wise up?WHo you telling to wise up?Look in the bible! IT talks against homo sexuals!DO you know what that means?It means gay!I can't believe that you are from America.God Bless the U.S.A. let freedom ring!AShamed that your from America.YOu should be treated like that man in the book A Man Without A Country read it!!!!Then tell me if you would think about popping off about AMerica!

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Wise up?WHo you telling to wise up?Look in the bible! IT talks against homo sexuals!DO you know what that means?It means gay!I can't believe that you are from America.God Bless the U.S.A. let freedom ring!AShamed that your from America.YOu should be treated like that man in the book A Man Without A Country read it!!!!Then tell me if you would think about popping off about AMerica!

Ok...dude...lets un-wind the undies and keep in mind that not EVERYBODDY believed in the validity of the bible. To me, the bible is a collection of stories designed to teach the fundamentals of Christianity. And I ALSO think that your God, if he is loving and caring, really doesnt give a frak if your homosexual or not.

Yeah Im un-patriotic, I dont like America and I dont like what we've done. I dont HATE America, Im just not happy with it. We've built our country on BS and finger pointing. It takes a huge disaster with an astronomical death toll to unify us as a people, we can never get along. And even when something horrible happens, someone's blaming "the terrorists" for it, someone else is blaming the Pagans and homosexuals (Someone actually did say that about 9/11), someone's rattling off about how God's angry. We put toxins in our own water supply, we're obsessed with totally empty people who we call stars, we glorify mediocrity. How sad is it that we actually have mental disorders where people intentionally starve themselves or over-eat and in other parts of the world they dont have running water. We are spoiled brats, we have everything and we do nothing with it.

 

[Pentecostal Boy]

Actually God said it was wrong and if we can't do the few things he asks of us then we must not really love him very much.If you hate America so much then why don't you leave it?Every nation has its's problems but we're an awsome nation.Listen if you don't believe Gods word then maybe you're not a christian after all.

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Actually God said it was wrong

You dont know anything of the sort. You ASSUME you do. This is true of any religious person. No one can definitively say ANYONE said ANYTHING about ANYTHING.

If you hate America so much then why don't you leave it?

Did I not JUST get done explaining I do not HATE America, I am simply very dissatisfied. And If I could, believe me, I would. But going to annother country is not as simple as all that. You have to have money, which I do not have.

Listen if you don't believe Gods word then maybe you're not a christian after all.

Gee, what tipped you off?

 

[spinningwheelgirl]

You say that Britian did not fall. Well they do still have some of their territory, but the certianly do not rule nearly as much of the world as they use to. At the height of the British Empire they ruled over a 1/4 of the globe. Now they only rule a few islands. Sure the Queen of England may be Queen of a lot nations, but she certainly does not have politcal power over them. Britian did fall, but not in the same way that Rome did. Rome collapsed, Britian just let go of its territory.

 

[eaglex]

I say we're getting worst than Rome.

 

[Illuminatus]

Wise up?WHo you telling to wise up?Look in the bible! IT talks against homo sexuals!DO you know what that means?It means gay!

Here's the thing, and it frequently amazes me how many people have a hard time wrapping their minds around this concept. (Not just Americans, there's a lot of people like this up here, too.) Your objection to homosexuality is based on your religion. You don't have the right to impose your religion on anyone else. Banning same-sex marriage based on your religious values is a way of imposing your religion on others, which you are not allowed to do.

I can't believe that you are from America.God Bless the U.S.A. let freedom ring!AShamed that your from America.

Looking at this from a (mostly) unbiased outsider's point of view, one of the worst effects of Bush's presidency on your country has been how it's divided you. Look at yourselves! You're at each other's throats for the smallest things! Democrats and Republicans both bandy about terms like "un-American", and say that the others "hate America". You don't have to hate America to hate what America has become. It's sad.

 

[Spawn]

I say we're getting worst than Rome.

not just yet. But we're heading down that road. we do not have a negative birthrate yet.

 

[Pentecostal Boy]

Actually it does say in the bible that gays are wrong.ANd if your not a christian then how do you know?

 

[Antoninus Verus]

Actually it does say in the bible that gays are wrong.

You know, the needle on my troll meter is starting to jump a bit, is anyone else picking this up?

ANd if your not a christian then how do you know?

I dont, and nither do you. You THINK you do