Romans 3:23 - Does "all" really mean "all"?

[Teke]

Romans 3:23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Protestants like to use this verse to "prove" that Mary sinned. But is this a good defense on their part? Hardly. My point in this thread is not to argue about the Immaculate Conception, but to point out that protestants use of this verse and specifically the word "all" does not necessarily mean all.

Firstly, let's start out with some logic here. Do infants sin or children below the age of reason sin? Do the senile sin? Do mentally retarded persons sin? In some cases they may know they aren't supposed to do something, but do they have knowledge that it is a sin? If a three year old is hitting a brother and is told not to but does it anyway are they sinning? No, they might know that they are not supposed to do it, but they don't have knowledge that they are sinning. So by just using simple logic here we can see that these people are subtracted from the "all" in Romans 3:23. So "all" does not mean "all" in these cases.

Now lets use some scripture to see if "all" means "all". The problem with this is that the word 'ALL' here is the Greek word, 'PAS', which can have different meanings to the absolute that we immediately think of. Here are some scripture verses.

John 12:19 So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!" This verse does not use the word "all" but the context is the same. "the whole world has gone after him." Really, did everyone in the whole world go after Christ?

Matthew 3:5-6 Then went out to him Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan, (6) and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. Really? Were all of Judea and all the region about the Jordan Baptized? Does "all" really mean all here?

Luke 2:1 In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled. Was everyone in the whole wide world enrolled or counted? Really?

Romans 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; Is this true, will everyone in Israel be saved? Really, every single person???

Romans 15:14 I myself am satisfied about you, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able to instruct one another. Gee, I thought only God was filled with "all" knowledge. But according to protestant definition of the word "all", apparently every single one of us is filled with "all" knowledge.

The Greek word 'PAS' in many verses in Scripture simply means a 'great number', 'most of', or 'a lot'. So its appearance in the quoted passage can in no way be used as an objection to the sinlessness of the Virgin Mary.

As an added bonus, what did the founder of protestantism say about Mary on her state of sin? Let's take a look.

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin."
Martin Luther: Sermon, 1527

"All" means "all". The difference of opinions lies in what one believes sin is. Generally it means to "miss the mark". The question follows, what is the mark. The mark is God.

And since none of us are going to be God, we all miss the mark. We are weak created creatures, meaning we do not have the strength of God. In realizing this truth, we realize our weakness.

But if sin is in relation to moral justice then there are varying degrees of how that is understood. And that by ones own judgement.
Jesus said, "judge not" or we'll be judged to the same degree as we pronounce it on another. So morally I can't judge anyone.

 

[Edial]

Romans 3:23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Protestants like to use this verse to "prove" that Mary sinned. But is this a good defense on their part? Hardly. My point in this thread is not to argue about the Immaculate Conception, but to point out that protestants use of this verse and specifically the word "all" does not necessarily mean all.

It is all (PAS), like in everyone.

(See explanation below).

Firstly, let's start out with some logic here. Do infants sin or children below the age of reason sin? Do the senile sin? Do mentally retarded persons sin? In some cases they may know they aren't supposed to do something, but do they have knowledge that it is a sin? If a three year old is hitting a brother and is told not to but does it anyway are they sinning? No, they might know that they are not supposed to do it, but they don't have knowledge that they are sinning. So by just using simple logic here we can see that these people are subtracted from the "all" in Romans 3:23. So "all" does not mean "all" in these cases.

If one is not aware of sinning, it does not mean that he is not sinning.
Presence of death testifies to it.

RO 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

Now lets use some scripture to see if "all" means "all". The problem with this is that the word 'ALL' here is the Greek word, 'PAS', which can have different meanings to the absolute that we immediately think of. Here are some scripture verses.

Let's not forget that there is PAS and there is HO PAS.
ALL and THE ALL.

When there is PAS (ALL) - it means everyone.

When there is HO PAS (THE ALL) - it means all in general, not everyone.

John 12:19

So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!" This verse does not use the word "all" but the context is the same. "the whole world has gone after him." Really, did everyone in the whole world go after Christ?

If this is not using ALL, let's skip it.

But please note that THE WHOLE WORLD has a HO (THE) in front of "whole world". Ho holos kosmos.

Matthew 3:5-6

Then went out to him Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan, (6) and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. Really? Were all of Judea and all the region about the Jordan Baptized? Does "all" really mean all here?

All the region has a HO. THE ALL region.
That covers the ALL Judea contextually.

HO PAS means ALL in general terms.

Luke 2:1

In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled. Was everyone in the whole wide world enrolled or counted? Really?

HO PAS. All the world - in general terms, not everyone.

Romans 11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; Is this true, will everyone in Israel be saved? Really, every single person???

PAS. No HO PAS. That means every single one.

Revelation presents 144,000 as the true Israel from 12 tribes.
Each and every single one of them will be saved.

PAS - ALL, as in every one.

Romans 15:14

I myself am satisfied about you, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able to instruct one another. Gee, I thought only God was filled with "all" knowledge. But according to protestant definition of the word "all", apparently every single one of us is filled with "all" knowledge.

RO 15:14 I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another.
Complete in knowledge - combination words of:
Complete - pas+pleroo
knowledge - gnosis

HO PAS means general knowledge.
PAS means specific and entire knowledge.

The point in the text is that we have that entire specific knowledge concerning the mystery of salvation, so we are competent in instructing each other.
That entire specific knowledge of salvation mystery is Jesus Christ who is revealed to us.

The Greek word 'PAS' in many verses in Scripture simply means a 'great number', 'most of', or 'a lot'. So its appearance in the quoted passage can in no way be used as an objection to the sinlessness of the Virgin Mary.

HO PAS means a 'great number', 'most of', or 'a lot', not just PAS.

Dictionary definitions "bunch them" together.

As an added bonus, what did the founder of protestantism say about Mary on her state of sin? Let's take a look.

"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin."
Martin Luther: Sermon, 1527

Lutheranism is NOT based on Luther, but the Lutheran Confessions.

Otherwise, the very purpose of Luther's complaint against the ifallibility of the Pope is lost.

But I understand how this could be misunderstood.

Thanks,
Ed