Roman Catholic teachings denounced by Orthodox groups?

[SabbathBlessings]

Sure, but the quote says:

Those "certain fundamental beliefs" that are the "church’s understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture" are the ones that are primarily influenced by Ellen White, as said in thread to be a Prophet or to have spoke in Prophesy. As it is said in the "Official Beliefs":

I am not denying that the SDA church was blessed with the gift of prophesy, but that does not change our belief in Sola Scriptura and everything must be tested by scriptures and the scripture is the authority. Many think Ellen White wrote the 4th commandment but scripture tells us that God did. Exodus 34:28

 

[bbbbbbb]

This is incorrect, Ellen White helped form the SDA church and the teachings come directly from scripture. Ellen White also tells us all teachings must be tested by scripture.

Here is the official SDA belief so you are spreading false information.

It is belief #1

The Holy Scriptures, Old and New Testaments, are the written Word of God, given by divine inspiration.

The inspired authors spoke and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. In this Word, God has committed to humanity the knowledge necessary for salvation.

The Holy Scriptures are the supreme, authoritative, and the infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the test of experience, the definitive revealer of doctrines, and the trustworthy record of God’s acts in history.

(Ps. 119:105; Prov. 30:5, 6; Isa. 8:20; John 17:17; 1 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 4:12; 2 Peter 1:20, 21.)

The simple fact remains that nobody, simply by reading the Bible on their own, has come to the unique interpretations of scripture that Mrs. White proclaimed. Without Mrs. White there would be no SDA.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Notice in that post above - we find these words

I am an SDA - we have a prophet with direct message from God and 10's of thousands of pages of manuscript - messages directly guiding the church in these last days. I don't see how that argument you make above is helping you.

But STILL I am accountable to God for what I choose to accept or reject according to these scriptures.
​

How "odd" then to find this false accusation posted here - sometime after that...

It may be "odd" in your particular case, but your fellow Adventist, SabbathBlessings, seems to portray her beliefs as stemming entirely from the Bible alone without any significant interpretive and prophetic role by Mrs. White.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The simple fact remains that nobody, simply by reading the Bible on their own, has come to the unique interpretations of scripture that Mrs. White proclaimed. Without Mrs. White there would be no SDA.

I disagree- which part of the beliefs exactly? It's more compelling when you actually have proof or at least examples

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It may be "odd" in your particular case, but your fellow Adventist, SabbathBlessings, seems to portray her beliefs as stemming entirely from the Bible alone without any significant interpretive and prophetic role by Mrs. White.

You again misinterpret what I said. I am not denying that the SDA church was blessed with the gift of prophesy, but that does not change our belief in Sola Scriptura and everything must be tested by scriptures and the scripture is the authority.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The simple fact remains that nobody, simply by reading the Bible on their own, has come to the unique interpretations of scripture that Mrs. White proclaimed. Without Mrs. White there would be no SDA.

Many people who became Adventist never read an Ellen White book, never had an SDA upbringing and from reading the Bible only and help of the Holy Sprit came to the same understandings. There is only one Gospel and one Truth in the scriptures. The Holy Sprit will lead you into all Truth if you're willing to do the will of God and not your own.

We have @LoveGodsWord testimony who was not raised SDA, did not know of Ellen White. Pastor Doug lived in a cave and had no religious upbringing started reading the Bible and came to the same conclusion, so what you are saying is not true. There are many people who came to be Adventist that did not know EGW.

Here is Pastor Doug's personal Testimony

Two other pastors come to mind who came to the same conclusions Mark Finley and James Rafferty both former Catholics started reading the bible on their own and came to the same conclusions. There are thousands and thousands of members who have come to same the same conclusions just from reading the scriptures and not EGW.

And than we have these quotes who were before EGW and have come to similar conclusions about the Ten Commandments/Sabbath. I find this argument so strange to be honest because its all right there in our bibles!

Martin Luther:

I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also.
—MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72.

and

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
—D.L. MOODY, Weighed and Wanting, page 47.

and

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

 

[rturner76]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I do not believe the apostles founded the Catholic church and there is no such indication in scriptures. The church was built on the Word of God. Many of God's original church people were persecuted for Sabbath keeping by the Roman church.

Then who founded the Catholic Church? Who founded the Church of Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Ethiopia, Syria, and so on were all in communion.

What you don't seem to understand is the Church was in action 300 years before the Biblical Cannon was decided. Are you saying the NT Church was founded in 300+ AD? What CHurch was there from 0 to 300? Not 30 years but 300 before the Biblical Cannon was decided. How does the NT supersede the previous 300 years when there was no Bible?

Your denomination took its best guess but the original Church still remains whilst the Protestant Church are valid based on whoever was lead by the Holy Spirit that day. No foundation in the original Church. Just a following based on their own personal interpretation of scripture. Not the apostolic succession which is recognized by the 3 oldest Churches.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then who founded the Catholic Church? Who founded the Church of Rome, Constantinople, Jerusalem, Ethiopia, Syria, and so on were all in communion.

What you don't seem to understand is the Church was in action 300 years before the Biblical Cannon was decided. Are you saying the NT Church was founded in 300+ AD? What CHurch was there from 0 to 300? Not 30 years but 300 before the Biblical Cannon was decided. How does the NT supersede the previous 300 years when there was no Bible?

Your denomination took its best guess but the original Church still remains whilst the Protestant Church are valid based on whoever was lead by the Holy Spirit that day. No foundation in the original Church. Just a following based on their own personal interpretation of scripture. Not the apostolic succession which is recognized by the 3 oldest Churches.

Here's a documentary that answers a lot of these questions...

 

[rturner76]

Here's a documentary that answers a lot of these questions...

I don't go for the anti-Catholic rhetoric.

 

[tampasteve]

I know for a fact this is not true. Many people who became Adventist never read an Ellen White book, never had an SDA upbringing and from reading the Bible only and help of the Holy Sprit came to the same understandings. There is only one Gospel and one Truth in the scriptures. The Holy Sprit will lead you into all Truth if you're willing to do the will of God and not your own.

We have @LoveGodsWord testimony who was not raised SDA, did not know of Ellen White. Pastor Doug lived in a cave and had no religious upbringing started reading the Bible and came to the same conclusion, so what you are saying is not true. There are many people who came to be Adventist that did not know EGW.

Here is Pastor Doug's personal Testimony

Two other pastors come to mind who came to the same conclusions Mark Finley and James Rafferty both former Catholics started reading the bible on their own and came to the same conclusions. There are thousands and thousands of members who have come to same the same conclusions just from reading the scriptures and not EGW.

And than we have Martin Luther:

I wonder exceedingly how it came to be imputed to me that I should reject the law of Ten Commandments...Whosoever abrogates the law must of necessity abrogate sin also.
—MARTIN LUTHER, Spiritual Antichrist, pages 71, 72.

and

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?
—D.L. MOODY, Weighed and Wanting, page 47.

and

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

Luther, Wesley and Moody were certainly not Saturday Sabbath worshipers, they were Sunday Service believers that believed in a Sabbath Rest. The two should not be confused from a Christian perspective and should not be used to support a SDA view of the Sabbath and it is disingenuous to take their quotes to support it. Many Protestants believe in Sabbath observance from the perspective of a Sabbath day of rest on Sunday. The issue to many non-Sabbatarians is the insistence of a Friday-Saturday Sabbath, not so much that a day of rest is commanded.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't go for the anti-Catholic rhetoric.

This is what Paul says will happen after His death:
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.


The documentary is not meant to provide anything but an accurate history of the early church.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Luther, Wesley and Moody were certainly not Saturday Sabbath worshipers, they were Sunday Service believers that believed in a Sabbath Rest. The two should not be confused from a Christian perspective and should not be used to support a SDA view of the Sabbath and it is disingenuous to take their quotes to support it. Many Protestants believe in Sabbath observance from the perspective of a Sabbath day of rest on Sunday. The issue to many non-Sabbatarians is the insistence of a Friday-Saturday Sabbath, not so much that a day of rest is commanded.

They were reformers and many came to the same conclusions after breaking away from how they were told to interpret scriptures to actually reading the scriptures.

There is no Sunday rest in the scriptures or a day that God blessed, sanctified to be holy. Those scriptures God tells us very clearly are on the seventh day and it was that way from Creation Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13

The Romans Catholic Church admits they changed the day from Sunday to Saturday without scriptural authority like predicted in Daniel 7:25

I am surprised people deny this when they openly admit to it and seem proud of it.


It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.


Q. Have you any other proofs that they(Protestants) are not guided by the Scripture?
A. Yes; so many, that we cannot admit more than a mere specimen into this small work. They reject much that is clearly contained in Scripture, and profess more that is nowhere discoverable in that Divine Book.
Q. Give some examples of both?
A. They should, if the Scripture were their only rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; —they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, "Remember thou keep holy the SABBATH-day;" for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated;...
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 101 Imprimatuer

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.


Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.
—C. F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath, November 11, 1895.

 

[tampasteve]

I could respond further, but I am going to bow out of this thread. I apologize for being part of dragging this thread off course and into Sabbatarianism, as that is not the topic of the thread.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I could respond further, but I am going to bow out of this thread. I apologize for being part of dragging this thread off course and into Sabbatarianism, as that is not the topic of the thread.

Yes, I am sorry too. I was not really paying attention to the topic and started responding to the posts. I am not trying to be offensive or disrespectful to anyone or their beliefs. There is a lot of misinformation about SDA's and am sure other denominations feel the same way. We should all be seeking to find the Truth because following God's true Word in my opinion is the only thing that matters. God bless all.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I disagree- which part of the beliefs exactly? It's more compelling when you actually have proof or at least examples instead of just making accusations.

May I ask you a personal question? Did you become SDA by simply reading the Bible on your own without any contact with the teachings of the SDA?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

May I ask you a personal question? Did you become SDA by simply reading the Bible on your own without any contact with the teachings of the SDA?

The SDA church is made up of millions of people so my personal story does not make it everyone elses. You made the claim that all SDA's came to the conclusion of scripture because of EGW and that is simply not true. I can tell you I becoming an Adventist had nothing to do with EGW and everything to do with the Holy Spirit impressing on my heart when I was breaking a commandment that was personally written by our Creator and Savior.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The SDA church is made up of millions of people so my personal story does not make it everyone elses. You made the claim that all SDA's came to the conclusion of scripture because of EGW and that is simply not true.

I did not ask you about the experience of all of the members of your denomination, but your own personal experience. Unless you can honestly tell me otherwise, I will conclude that you only came to your beliefs through the teachings of the SDA and not through personal Bible study. I have yet to meet any member of the SDA, the JW's, or the CoJCoLDS, who, through personal Bible study apart from these groups, determined the same conclusions and joined them.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Notice in that post above - we find these words

I am an SDA - we have a prophet with direct message from God and 10's of thousands of pages of manuscript - messages directly guiding the church in these last days. I don't see how that argument you make above is helping you.

But STILL I am accountable to God for what I choose to accept or reject according to these scriptures.
​

How "odd" then to find this false accusation posted here - sometime after that...

not sure what you mean by that post. My name is not bbbbbbbb that mentioned Ellen White. That poster makes the claim the Ellen White guides, or maybe her writings guide SDA beliefs. I did not make that accusation.
The question I would have is does the SDA hold all of Ms White's writings as coming from God? Has she made any errors that were corrected by later members of the SDA?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I did not ask you about the experience of all of the members of your denomination, but your own personal experience. Unless you can honestly tell me otherwise, I will conclude that you only came to your beliefs through the teachings of the SDA and not through personal Bible study. I have yet to meet any member of the SDA, the JW's, or the CoJCoLDS, who, through personal Bible study apart from these groups, determined the same conclusions and joined them.

I already gave you examples and there are thousands who came to be an Adventist that never knew about Ellen White before coming up with the same conclusions.

You could pretend to know what 20 million people think, but only God is all knowing so its best to leave it there.

 

[bbbbbbb]

not sure what you mean by that post. My name is not bbbbbbbb that mentioned Ellen White. That poster makes the claim the Ellen White guides, or maybe her writings guide SDA beliefs. I did not make that accusation.
The question I would have is does the SDA hold all of Ms White's writings as coming from God? Has she made any errors that were corrected by later members of the SDA?

Yes, I was also puzzled that I was conflated with yourself.