Roman Catholic..anything wrong with it?

[bbbbbbb]

My patron saint, William Tyndale, should have been up there, IMHO

Tyndale and defying the Pope

William Tyndale

A clergyman hopelessly entrenched in Roman Catholic dogma once taunted Tyndale with the statement, “'We are better to be without God’s laws than the Pope’s!"”.

Tyndale was infuriated by such Roman Catholic heresies, and he replied, “"I defy the Pope and all his laws.
If God spare my life ere many years, I will cause the boy that drives the plow to know more of the scriptures than you!"”

Tyndale was then strangled and burnt at the stake in the prison yard, Oct. 6, 1536. His last words were, "Lord, open the king of England's eyes."
This prayer was answered three years later, in the publication of King Henry VIII’s 1539 English “Great Bible”.

Hi LLoJ! It has been awhile since I have seen you around. How have you been?

 

[Gabriel Anton]

Very true. As well, many can be truly lost even in the most Godly environment.

Peace be with you.

I commend and thank you for your wise words.

God bless you.

 

[Truth Lover]

Not always. Some of the most controversial doctrines are based upon Tradition instead of Scripture and have no Biblical basis whatsoever. They are defended by the unprovable claim that such was what the Apostles taught--or the church since its beginning--ergo, they must be true.

Which doctrines are you referring to?

2 Thessalonians 2:15 says we are to hold fast to what Paul taught what her by word of mouth or by letters from him. The oral tradition was preserved by the writings of the early church fathers. You can read this at new advent.org.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Peace be with you.

I commend and thank you for your wise words.

God bless you.

Thank you. God bless you, as well.

 

[Albion]

Which doctrines are you referring to?

The Assumption, for one.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 says we are to hold fast to what Paul taught what her by word of mouth or by letters from him.

(sigh) We have discussed that one at length. It not only doesn't tell us what traditions were in mind, but they most likely were customs rather than doctrines, the verse doesn't authorize anyone to create any new doctrines, and it has nothing to do with the process that the Catholic Church chose to call "Holy Tradition" at a later date.

They aren't even the same word (traditions vs Tradition).

 

[Jeepneytravel]

I am talking about the stupidity that leads to banal evil. The kind of stupidity that caused the majority of Germany to worship Hitler. To participate in the inquisition etc. I am not talking about unintelligence.

Also the Roman catholic church bishops blessed the German and Italian tanks....talk about playing both sides of the war....guess they were paying Italy back for giving them their new digs at the Vatican in 1929 in the Lateran treaty....

 

[prodromos]

Also the Roman catholic church bishops blessed the German and Italian tanks....talk about playing both sides of the war....guess they were paying Italy back for giving them their new digs at the Vatican in 1929 in the Lateran treaty....

"May they always miss their targets and reverse gear never fail"

The fact is, you have no idea what the nature of that blessing was. More than likely it was for the safety of the occupants.

 

[beebert]

Also the Roman catholic church bishops blessed the German and Italian tanks....talk about playing both sides of the war....guess they were paying Italy back for giving them their new digs at the Vatican in 1929 in the Lateran treaty....

Be careful with what it is that you judge though. Yes, catholicism as an institution has a lot of blood on its conscience, but as neither you nor I am a catholic, we don't know the church from within. I imagine you are protestant? Protestantism(not protestants) has done many serious wrongs too.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

Be careful with what it is that you judge though. Yes, catholicism as an institution has a lot of blood on its conscience, but as neither you nor I am a catholic, we don't know the church from within. I imagine you are protestant? Protestantism(not protestants) has done many serious wrongs too.

And it continues to have blood and filth on it's conscience...it seems it doesn't learn....
It isunfortunate that "christians" have to categorize people into their little pigeon holes....
A word of advice for you, it is possible to be a true Christian and follow Jesus teachings in the Bible, and the wordof God without belonging to any fancy denomination..you do know that right?

 

[beebert]

And it continues to have blood and filth on it's conscience...it seems it doesn't learn....
It isunfortunate that "christians" have to categorize people into their little pigeon holes....
A word of advice for you, it is possible to be a true Christian and follow Jesus teachings in the Bible, and the wordof God without belonging to any fancy denomination..you do know that right?

I am not saying anything about what you can do and can't do. But you should know, you who praise the knowledge of church history, that being outside of either the Orthodox or Catholic church would historically have been considered a matter so serious that you salvation would have been not only questioned, but seriously threatened. And I am not talking about the middle ages, no, this view was held already in the end of the first century and beginning of the second century by Ignatius of Antioch etc. Also, they claimed that the Eucharist was needed for salvation, they took John's words literally. You know why? Because they lived when the Gospel of John was written. Also, salvation is not something you do by yourself. Christians are not supposed to be heavenly utilitarians you know? And salvation is OF the world, not FROM it. Personally, I have no opinion on whether you need a church or not, I am just saying what has been held since the beginning of Christianity. The mistake of protestantism consists in saying that the Church is the totality of the ‘saved ones’, but saved individually (“I am saved”!), so that each salvation does not mean anything for the world, does not accomplish anything in the world; the salvation of the world is not accomplished in the salvation of each man. The church, in other words, becomes a sect – a sect obsessed with salvation as such, without relation either to the world or to the Kingdom of God. By renouncing cosmology, Protestantism actually renounces eschatology, since man has no other symbol, no other sacrament, i.e., no other knowledge of the Kingdom of God, than the world; so a man’s salvation is always also the salvation of the world, the knowledge of the church as the presence of the ‘new creation’. If Protestantism is individualizing salvation, and making it a personal salvation by emptying it of any cosmic and eschatological content, it makes man endlessly lonely, torn apart, separated from the world, from history, from the Kingdom of God. Protestantism, intending to purify Christianity from pagan contagion, in fact was the annihilation of the eschatology of Christianity. The world is created as communion with God, as ascent to God; it is created for spiritualization, but it is not ‘god’ and therefore spiritualization is always also the overcoming of the world, the liberation from it. Thus, the world is a ‘sacrament’. The fatal mistake of Protestantism is that, having justifiably rebelled against the immanentization of Christianity during the Middle Ages of Catholicism, it rejected the ‘sacrament’, not only religion as sin and fall, but also the religious nature of creation itself. Influenced by this de-sacramentalized view of the world, many of us (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise) have become agents of destruction, rather than agents of salvation for the life of the world.

 

[Jeepneytravel]

I am not saying anything about what you can do and can't do. But you should know, you who praise the knowledge of church history, that being outside of either the Orthodox or Catholic church would historically have been considered a matter so serious that you salvation would have been not only questioned, but seriously threatened. And I am not talking about the middle ages, no, this view was held already in the end of the first century and beginning of the second century by Ignatius of Antioch etc. Also, they claimed that the Eucharist was needed for salvation, they took John's words literally. You know why? Because they lived when the Gospel of John was written. Also, salvation is not something you do by yourself. Christians are not supposed to be heavenly utilitarians you know? And salvation is OF the world, not FROM it. Personally, I have no opinion on whether you need a church or not, I am just saying what has been held since the beginning of Christianity. The mistake of protestantism consists in saying that the Church is the totality of the ‘saved ones’, but saved individually (“I am saved”!), so that each salvation does not mean anything for the world, does not accomplish anything in the world; the salvation of the world is not accomplished in the salvation of each man. The church, in other words, becomes a sect – a sect obsessed with salvation as such, without relation either to the world or to the Kingdom of God. By renouncing cosmology, Protestantism actually renounces eschatology, since man has no other symbol, no other sacrament, i.e., no other knowledge of the Kingdom of God, than the world; so a man’s salvation is always also the salvation of the world, the knowledge of the church as the presence of the ‘new creation’. If Protestantism is individualizing salvation, and making it a personal salvation by emptying it of any cosmic and eschatological content, it makes man endlessly lonely, torn apart, separated from the world, from history, from the Kingdom of God. Protestantism, intending to purify Christianity from pagan contagion, in fact was the annihilation of the eschatology of Christianity. The world is created as communion with God, as ascent to God; it is created for spiritualization, but it is not ‘god’ and therefore spiritualization is always also the overcoming of the world, the liberation from it. Thus, the world is a ‘sacrament’. The fatal mistake of Protestantism is that, having justifiably rebelled against the immanentization of Christianity during the Middle Ages of Catholicism, it rejected the ‘sacrament’, not only religion as sin and fall, but also the religious nature of creation itself. Influenced by this de-sacramentalized view of the world, many of us (Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise) have become agents of destruction, rather than agents of salvation for the life of the world.

A whole lot of words to say very little.....
How about follow this...Jesus said "where two or more are gatherered in my name there I shall be also"....that is good enough for me, and following the words of Jesus in the Bible of course. Matthew 18

 

[beebert]

A whole lot of words to say very little.....
How about follow this...Jesus said "where two or more are gatherered in my name there I shall be also"....that is good enough for me, and following the words of Jesus in the Bible of course. Matthew 18

Then we are two. But the social constructs that build up to different opposing views of what christianity is must be considered for there to be a unity in Faith.

 

[JRichard68]

Then we are two. But the social constructs that build up to different opposing views of what christianity is must be considered for there to be a unity in Faith.

That doesn't make sense. Can you say it another way?

 

[Albion]

JR,

The churches are separated by their socio-political views, so that even if there were some rapprochement on basic theology, there would still be a big divide.

 

[Phil 1:21]

But you should know, you who praise the knowledge of church history, that being outside of either the Orthodox or Catholic church would historically have been considered a matter so serious that you salvation would have been not only questioned, but seriously threatened.

It's cute how a particular denomination thinks they control the gates of heaven, as if God answers to them.

 

[beebert]

It's cute how a particular denomination thinks they control the gates of heaven, as if God answers to them.

Don't think that I am a catholic. Never said I was. But without the catholic/orthodox church, christianity wouldn't be here. And sola scriptura surely is a great problem, otherwise we wouldn't have 30 000 denominations. That was not Christ's intention. You who praise sola scriptura(it seems) should know this from scripture. It is not the people within the institution, nor is it the behavior of bishops, that should make you reject the church. But the validity of its teachings. If both the orthodox and catholic church is wrong, then Christ lied when he said that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against his church. And also, to quote an early church father:

“Do not say that you are the temple of the Lord, writes Jeremiah (cf. Jer. 7:4); nor should you say that faith alone in our Lord Jesus Christ can save you, for this is impossible unless you also acquire love for Him through your works.

As for faith by itself, ‘the devils also believe, and tremble’ (Jas. 2:19).”

 

[beebert]

That statement makes absolutely no logical sense. Is that English? If so, can you edit?

I am not english, I guess that is why. What I meant was that I agree to a certain extent, but at the same time, 30000 denominations teaching different things on important matters is a huge problem.

 

[Phil 1:21]

It is not the people within the institution, nor is it the behavior of bishops, that should make you reject the [RCC]. But the [inaccuracy] of [some] its teachings.

It's a package deal.

If both the orthodox and catholic church is wrong, then Christ lied when he said that the gates of hell wouldn't prevail against his church.

It's cute that you think that Jesus' church is comprised exclusively of those two denominations.

 

[beebert]

It's a package deal.



It's cute that you think that Jesus' church is comprised exclusively of those two denominations.

It is obviously not found in protestantism at least, sense not a single member taught what most denominations there taught until the 16th century. And honestly, most protestants betray the teachings of their heroes Luther and Calvin as well.

 

[JRichard68]

I am not english, I guess that is why. What I meant was that I agree to a certain extent, but at the same time, 30000 denominations teaching different things on important matters is a huge problem.

I see. My apologies. I'll edit my post, and please forgive me for being rude.