Roman Catholic..anything wrong with it?

[Phil 1:21]

And honestly, most protestants betray the teachings of their heroes Luther and Calvin as well.

I was more a fan of Hobbes.

 

[beebert]

I see. My apologies. I'll edit my post, and please forgive me for being rude.

No no there is no problem! I didn't think you were rude!

 

[Albion]

Don't think that I am a catholic. Never said I was. But without the catholic/orthodox church, christianity wouldn't be here.

You have a problem with that thesis right off the bat. You want us to think that there is one true church--and then named two competing communions (RC and EO) as that one and only. The fact is that the Scriptures were codified, not written, by the undivided church from which most of today's denominations descend (including those two).

And sola scriptura surely is a great problem, otherwise we wouldn't have 30 000 denominations.

We had a bunch before Luther expounded upon the importance of Scripture Alone, so this theory also appears to be dubious.

 

[Petros2015]

The Sabbath day was instituted by Jehovah for the Israelites to commemorate being brought out of Egypt. We do NOT celebrate the below deity, nor being lead out of Egypt.

Wait... what...? Are you saying Jehovah was a different deity...?

 

[Albion]

It is obviously not found in protestantism at least, sense not a single member taught what most denominations there taught until the 16th century. And honestly, most protestants betray the teachings of their heroes Luther and Calvin as well.

Have you studied this matter very much?

 

[beebert]

You have a problem with that thesis right off the bat. You want us to think that there is one true church--and then named two competing communions (RC and EO) as that one and only. The fact is that the Scriptures were codified, not written, by the undivided church from which most of today's denominations descend (including those two).

We had a bunch before Luther expounded upon the importance of Scripture Alone, so this theory also appears to be dubious.

I say that there is one church, which one it is I am not sure of. But I wrote above the problem about protestantism, but then someone mocked me for using many words and saying little. Read the post, see if you understand and then comment on whether you agree or not. I have never said anything as pathetic as "You have to be a catholic to be saved", that is not my point. My point is the mentality of "accepting Christ as my personal savior" as the only thing christianity seems to be about, is a wrong mentality. That is just one part of it all. But in reality, one man's salvation is the salvation of the world. The whole world becomes redeemed. It is not one man's salvation from it. Yes, there were a bunch before Luther. But you know, how valid are this bunch? Can you name them, and also name which of the 30 000 popes in protestantism who is right in their doctrine? And also, I hope you do know that it wasn't until well into the 4th century that the church decided what even counted as scripture. The bishop Athanasius was the one who made the final decision. Before that, many, many christians considered texts such as the book of revelation, 2nd Peter and Hebrews to be very doubtful if they were to be considered autheintic scripture or not. I beg you to understand what I am saying, as I have mentioned many times now, I haven't said, and I don't say "You need to be catholic to be saved". I am saying that the protestant church, which was meant to be faithful to tradition(that was Calvin's and Luther's intention) actually betrayed tradition and scripture, since one must understand the circumstances in which things were written. THe church and its teachings already existed when Paul wrote his epistles, and Paul even thought that the world would come to an end while he was alive. Do you REALLY think that he thought "These epistles of mine shall be considered part of The holy bible, contained in a book called the New Testament". No. Hardly. The gospels weren't even written. Except of course for some of the epistles in the New Testament that are attributed to Paul but weren't actually written by him but after his death. The doctrines of Luther and Calvin, which the majority of "orthodox" protestantism is based upon, wasn't taught by a single member of the church until Luther and Calvin came along. If someone taught it, he was considered a heretic. As the famous John Henry Newman said: "To be deep in history, is to cease being a protestant". The reformation is an idea that was dependent on the circumstances of its time.

 

[Albion]

That is because he belongs to a protestant sect and is proud of it rather than of being christian. Not because he follows his own ability of discernment.

The fact is that Protestantism and Catholicism are about equally 'correct' when it comes to the matter of who is conforming to the standards of the Apostolic church. The one side is more in step with the first century church on certain matters while the other is closest to the Apostolic church on others.

 

[beebert]

And I want you guys to understand that tradition doesn't mean traditionalism. Tradition means the protection of the pure faith once delivered by the saints. Or as one of history's most famous Church historians said, Jaroslav Pelikan, who was a Lutheran but converted to the Eastern Orthodox Church:

“Tradition is the living faith of the dead, traditionalism is the dead faith of the living. And, I suppose I should add, it is traditionalism that gives tradition such a bad name.”

 

[Phil 1:21]

Can you name them, and also name which of the 30 000 popes in protestantism who is right in their doctrine?

Perhaps if you could provide a list from which to choose?

 

[Petros2015]

the Protocols of Zion

... this Protocols of Zion? Just saying... The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia

 

[beebert]

Perhaps if you could provide a list from which to choose?

• 
  Baptist churches - 75-105 million[12][18]
  • Southern Baptist Convention - 15.7 million[19]
  • National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. - 8.2 million[20]
  • Nigerian Baptist Convention - 5.0 million[20]
  • National Missionary Baptist Convention of America - 3.1 million[20]
  • National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. - 3.1 million[20]
  • Baptist Union of Uganda - 2.5 million[20]
  • Baptist Community of Western Congo - 2.1 million[20]
  • Baptist General Convention of Texas - 2.1 million[20]
  • Baptist Convention of Tanzania - 2.0 million[20]
  • Brazilian Baptist Convention - 1.6 million[20]
  • Progressive National Baptist Convention - 1.5 million[20]
  • Baptist Bible Fellowship International - 1.2 million[21]
  • American Baptist Churches USA - 1.2 million[20]
  • Lott Carey Foreign Mission Convention - 1.1 million[20]
  • Baptist Community of the Congo River - 1.1 million[20]
  • National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. - 1.0 million[21]
  • Myanmar Baptist Convention - 1.0 million[20]
  • Cooperative Baptist Fellowship - 0.8 million[20]
  • Baptist General Association of Virginia - 0.6 million[20]
  • Baptist Convention of Kenya - 0.6 million[20]
  • Council of Baptist Churches in Northeast India - 0.6 million[22]
  • Nagaland Baptist Church Council - 0.6 million[20]
  • Korea Baptist Convention - 0.5 million[20]
  • Orissa Evangelical Baptist Crusade - 0.5 million[20]
  • Samavesam of Telugu Baptist Churches - 0.5 million[20]
  • National Baptist Convention (Brazil) - 0.4 million[20]
  • Church of Christ in Congo–Baptist Community of Congo - 0.4 million[23]
  • Baptist Convention of Malawi - 0.3 million[20]
  • Garo Baptist Convention - 0.3 million[20]
  • Convention of Philippine Baptist Churches - 0.3[20]
  • Ghana Baptist Convention - 0.3[20]
  • Union of Baptist Churches in Rwanda - 0.3 million[20]
  • American Baptist Association - 0.3 million[24]
  • Baptist Missionary Association of America - 0.2 million[25]
  • Conservative Baptist Association of America - 0.2 million[26]
  • National Association of Free Will Baptists - 0.2 million[27]
  • Convention of Visayas and Mindanao of Southern Baptist Churches - 0.2 million[20]
  • Manipur Baptist Convention - 0.2 million[20]
  • Baptist Community in Central Africa - 0.2 million[20]

• Lutheranism - 70-90 million[12][28][29]
  • Evangelical Church in Germany - 24.5 million[30]
  • Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus - 8.3 million[31]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania - 6.5 million[32]
  • Church of Sweden - 6.3 million[33]
  • United Evangelical Lutheran Churches in India - 4.5 million[34]
  • Batak Christian Protestant Church - 4.5 million[35]
  • Church of Denmark - 4.4 million[36]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland - 4.0 million[37]
  • Church of Norway - 3.8 million[38]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 3.8 million[39]
  • Malagasy Lutheran Church - 3.0 million[40]
  • Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod - 2.2 million[41]
  • The Lutheran Church of Christ in Nigeria - 2.2 million[42]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Papua New Guinea - 1.2 million[43]
  • Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession in Brazil - 0.7 million[44]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Namibia - 0.7 million[45]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Southern Africa - 0.6 million[46]
  • The Protestant Christian Church - 0.5 million[35]
  • The Indonesian Christian Church - 0.5 million[35]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Republic of Namibia - 0.4 million[45]
  • Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod - 0.4 million[47]
  • Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ - 0.4 million
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Cameroon - 0.3 million[48]
  • Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Austria - 0.3 million[49]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Zimbabwe - 0.3 million[50]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia - 0.3 million[51]
  • Christian Protestant Church in Indonesia - 0.3 million[35]
  • North American Lutheran Church - 0.2 million
  • Church of Iceland - 0.2 million[52]
  • Simalungun Protestant Christian Church - 0.2 million[35]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil - 0.2 million[53]
  • Protestant Church of Augsburg Confession of Alsace and Lorraine - 0.2 million[54]
  • The Lutheran Council of Great Britain - 0.2 million
  • Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Slovakia - 0.2 million[55]
  • Evangelical-Lutheran Church in Hungary - 0.2 million[56]
  • Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church - 0.2 million[57]

• Methodism - 60-80 million[12][58][59]
  • United Methodist Church - 12 million[60]
  • African Methodist Episcopal Church - 2.5 million[61]
  • Church of the Nazarene - 2 million[62]
  • Methodist Church Nigeria - 2 million[63]
  • Methodist Church of Southern Africa - 1.7 million[64]
  • Korean Methodist Church - 1.5 million[65]
  • African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church - 1.5 million[66]
  • The Salvation Army - 1.4 million[67]
  • United Methodist Church of Ivory Coast - 1 million[68]
  • Free Methodist Church - 0.9 million[69]
  • Christian Methodist Episcopal Church - 0.9 million[70]
  • Methodist Church Ghana - 0.8 million[71]
  • Methodist Church in India - 0.6 million[72]
  • Methodist Church in Kenya - 0.5 million[73]
  • Wesleyan Church - 0.4 million[74]
  • Evangelical Free Church of America - 0.4 million[75]
  • Methodist Church of Great Britain - 0.3 million[76]
  • Methodist Church in Brazil - 0.2 million[77]

• Calvinism (Reformed churches) - 55-85 million[12][78][79]
  • Presbyterianism - 40-50 million
    • Presbyterian Church of East Africa - 4.0 million[80]
    • Presbyterian Church of Nigeria - 3.8 million[81]
    • Presbyterian Church of Africa - 3.4 million[82]
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (HapDong) - 3.0 million[83]
    • Presbyterian Church of Korea (TongHap) - 2.9 million[84]
    • National Presbyterian Church in Mexico - 2.8 million[85]
    • Church of Christ in Congo–Presbyterian Community of Congo - 2.5 million[86]
    • United Church of Canada - over 2.0 million[87]
    • Presbyterian Church (USA) - 1.8 million[88]
    • Presbyterian Church of Cameroon - 1.8 million[89]
    • Presbyterian Church of India - 1.3 million[90]
    • Church of Central Africa Presbyterian - 1.3 million[91]
    • Church of Scotland - 1.1 million[92]
    • Presbyterian Church of Brazil - 1.0 million[93]
    • Presbyterian Church in Sudan - 1.0 million[94]
    • Presbyterian Church in Cameroon - 0.7 million[95]
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (HapDongBoSu II.) - 0.7 million[96]
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (BaekSeok) - 0.6 million[97]
    • Evangelical Presbyterian Church, Ghana - 0.6 million[98]
    • United Church of Christ in the Philippines - 0.5 million[99]
    • Uniting Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa - 0.5 million[100]
    • Presbyterian Church in America - 0.4 million[101]
    • Presbyterian Church of Pakistan - 0.4 million[102]
    • Korean Presbyterian Church - 0.4 million
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (Koshin) - 0.4 million
    • Presbyterian Church in Ireland - 0.3 million
    • Uniting Church in Australia - 0.3 million[103]
    • Presbyterian Church in Rwanda - 0.3 million[104]
    • Presbyterian Church in Taiwan - 0.3 million[105]
  • Continental Reformed churches - 20-30 million
    • Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar - 3.5 million[106]
    • Protestant Church in Indonesia - 3.1 million[107]
    • United Church in Zambia - 3.0 million[108]
    • Protestant Church in the Netherlands - 2.5 million[109]
    • Evangelical Church of Cameroon - 2.5 million[110]
    • Swiss Reformed Church - 2.4 million[111]
    • Christian Evangelical Church in Timor - 2.0 million[112]
    • Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa (NGK) - 1.1 million
    • Christian Evangelical Church in Minahasa - 0.7 million[113]
    • United Church in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands - 0.6 million[114]
    • Protestant Church in Western Indonesia - 0.6 million[115]
    • Evangelical Christian Church in Tanah Papua - 0.6 million[116]
    • Protestant Church of Maluku - 0.6 million[117]
    • Reformed Church in Hungary - 0.6 million[118]
    • Reformed Church in Romania - 0.6 million[119]
    • Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa - 0.5 million[120]
    • Toraja Church - 0.4 million[121]
    • Reformed Church of France - 0.4 million[122]
    • Lesotho Evangelical Church - 0.3 million[123]
    • Evangelical Christian Church in Halmahera - 0.3 million[124]
    • Evangelical Reformed Church in Angola - 0.3 million[125]
    • Christian Church of Sumba - 0.3 million[126]
    • Karo Batak Protestant Church - 0.3 million[127]
    • Reformed Church in America - 0.3 million[128]
    • Christian Reformed Church in North America - 0.3 million[129]
    • Christian Reformed Church of Nigeria - 0.3 million[130]
    • Reformed Church in Zambia - 0.3 million[131]
    • Kalimantan Evangelical Church - 0.2 million[132]
    • Javanese Christian Church - 0.2 million[133]
    • Indonesia Christian Church - 0.2 million[134]
    • Church of Christ in the Sudan Among the Tiv - 0.2 million[135]
    • Church of Lippe - 0.2 million[136]
    • Evangelical Church of Congo - 0.2 million[137]
    • Evangelical Church of Gabon - 0.2 million[138]
    • Christian Evangelical Church of Sangihe Talaud - 0.2 million[139]
    • Central Sulawesi Christian Church - 0.2 million[140]
    • Evangelical Reformed Church in Bavaria and Northwestern Germany - 0.2 million[141]
  • Congregationalism - 5 million
    • United Church of Christ - 1.2 million[142]
    • Evangelical Congregational Church in Angola - 0.9 million[143]
    • United Congregational Church of Southern Africa - 0.5 million[144]

• Anabaptism - 4.0 million
  • Mennonites - 2.1 million[145]
  • Schwarzenau Brethren/German Baptists - 1.5 million[146]
  • Amish - 0.3 million
  • Hutterites - 0.05 million
• Hussites - 1 million
  • Moravians - 0.825 million
  • Czechoslovak Hussite Church - 0.14 million
  • Unity of the Brethren - 0.035 million
• Quakers (Religious Society of Friends) - 0.4 million

Modern Protestantism (roots post 1800) - 400-500 million

• Pentecostalism - 280 million[12]
  • Assemblies of God - 65 million[147]
  • Apostolic Church - 15 million
  • Fangcheng Fellowship - 12 million
  • International Circle of Faith - 11 million[148]
  • China Gospel Fellowship - 10 million
  • Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) - 9 million
  • International Church of the Foursquare Gospel - 9 million
  • Church of God in Christ - 6.5 million[149]
  • Jesus is Lord Church - 6 million
  • International Pentecostal Holiness Church - 4 million
  • United Pentecostal Church International - 4 million
  • The Pentecostal Mission - 2.5 million
  • Christian Congregation of Brazil - 2.5 million
  • True Jesus Church - 2.5 million
  • The Church of Pentecost - 2.1 million
  • Universal Church of the Kingdom of God - 2 million
  • Pentecostal Assemblies of the World - 1.5 million
  • Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa - 1.2 million
  • Church of God of Prophecy - 1.5 million
  • Association of Pentecostal Churches of Rwanda - 1 million
  • God is Love Pentecostal Church - 0.8 million
• Nondenominational evangelicalism - 80 million
  • Calvary Chapel - 25 million
  • Born Again Movement - 3 million[150]
  • Association of Vineyard Churches - 15 million
  • Christian and Missionary Alliance - 4 million[151]
  • Church of God (Anderson, Indiana) - 1.2 million
• African initiated Protestant churches - 60 million[152]
  • Zion Christian Church - 15 million
  • Eternal Sacred Order of Cherubim and Seraphim - 10 million
  • Kimbanguist Church - 5.5 million
  • Church of the Lord (Aladura) - 3.6 million[153]
  • Council of African Instituted Churches - 3 million[154]
  • Church of Christ Light of the Holy Spirit - 1.4 million[155]
  • African Church of the Holy Spirit - 0.7 million[156]
  • African Israel Church Nineveh - 0.5 million[157]
• Seventh-day Adventist Church - 20.0 million[158]
• New Apostolic Church - 10 million[159]
• Chinese-originated and Chinese Independent Churches – 10 million
  
  • Local Churches – between 1 and 10 million
  • Eastern Lightning – 1 million
  • The Shouters – unknown, probably less than 1 million
• Restoration Movement - 7 million
  • Churches of Christ - 5 million
  • Christian churches and churches of Christ - 1.1 million[21]
  • Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) - 0.7 million[160]
  • Community of Disciples of Christ in Congo - 0.7 million[161]
• Plymouth Brethren - 1 million[162]

There are SOME of the biggest ones

 

[Albion]

I say that there is one church, which one it is I am not sure of.

You seem to be determined to make it be the Roman Catholic Church. Or are you keeping your eye on the Eastern Orthodox churches as candidates for being the one true church instead?

My point is the mentality of "accepting Christ as my personal savior" as the only thing christianity seems to be about, is a wrong mentality. That is just one part of it all.

Hmmm. Well, I think it's a question of what is meant by that phrase. If it is supposed to mean that this is all that Christianity is about, then that probably isn't a correct view. But if it is intended to say that this is the essence or most basic belief that describes the church of Christ, then that would be a different matter.

But in reality, one man's salvation is the salvation of the world. The whole world becomes redeemed.

So...are we speaking now of universalism?

Yes, there were a bunch before Luther. But you know, how valid are this bunch? Can you name them

Certainly. But the point is that you said Sola Scriptura was the cause of a proliferation of denominations when the truth is that there already were a number of competing churches prior to the Reformation.

and also name which of the 30 000 popes in protestantism who is right in their doctrine?

I'll give you my opinion. Is that what you're after? I thought you were arguing that there is only one true denomination and it must be a pre-Reformation one (for some reason).

And also, I hope you do know that it wasn't until well into the 4th century that the church decided what even counted as scripture.

]
It wasn't until the 4th century that the Scriptures--ALREADY IN USE AND CONSIDERED TO BE INSPIRED--were codified. It was a rather minor move, as a matter of fact, since only three or four of the books of the NT were in question going into those councils, as you know.

I beg you to understand what I am saying, as I have mentioned many times now, I haven't said, and I don't say "You need to be catholic to be saved". I am saying that the protestant church, which was meant to be faithful to tradition(that was Calvin's and Luther's intention) actually betrayed tradition and scripture, since one must understand the circumstances in which things were written. THe church and its teachings already existed when Paul wrote his epistles, and Paul even thought that the world would come to an end while he was alive. Do you REALLY think that he thought "These epistles of mine shall be considered part of The holy bible, contained in a book called the New Testament". No. Hardly. The gospels weren't even written. Except of course for some of the epistles in the New Testament that are attributed to Paul but weren't actually written by him but after his death. The doctrines of Luther and Calvin, which the majority of "orthodox" protestantism is based upon, wasn't taught by a single member of the church until Luther and Calvin came along. If someone taught it, he was considered a heretic. As the famous John Henry Newman said: "To be deep in history, is to cease being a protestant". The reformation is an idea that was dependent on the circumstances of its time.

Since all the Catholic churches accept the Bible as the inspired word of God, as well as do the reformed churches, I don't really see a point here. Perhaps it is an issue concerning interpretation, but if that is it, I still don't see that you've made a case. I'm a Protestant and certainly am not committed to some theologian's interpretation of everything.

 

[Petros2015]

If u know your history you will know that the Catholic Church was the only one. It was the original church.
It's when Luther came along that all these other 1,000s of denominations sprung up!

History is interesting isn't it?

East–West Schism - Wikipedia

 

[Phil 1:21]

• 
  Baptist churches - 75-105 million[12][18]
  • Southern Baptist Convention - 15.7 million[19]
  • National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. - 8.2 million[20]
  • Nigerian Baptist Convention - 5.0 million[20]
  • National Missionary Baptist Convention of America - 3.1 million[20]
  • National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. - 3.1 million[20]
  • Baptist Union of Uganda - 2.5 million[20]
  • Baptist Community of Western Congo - 2.1 million[20]
  • Baptist General Convention of Texas - 2.1 million[20]
  • Baptist Convention of Tanzania - 2.0 million[20]
  • Brazilian Baptist Convention - 1.6 million[20]
  • Progressive National Baptist Convention - 1.5 million[20]
  • Baptist Bible Fellowship International - 1.2 million[21]
  • American Baptist Churches USA - 1.2 million[20]
  • Lott Carey Foreign Mission Convention - 1.1 million[20]
  • Baptist Community of the Congo River - 1.1 million[20]
  • National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. - 1.0 million[21]
  • Myanmar Baptist Convention - 1.0 million[20]
  • Cooperative Baptist Fellowship - 0.8 million[20]
  • Baptist General Association of Virginia - 0.6 million[20]
  • Baptist Convention of Kenya - 0.6 million[20]
  • Council of Baptist Churches in Northeast India - 0.6 million[22]
  • Nagaland Baptist Church Council - 0.6 million[20]
  • Korea Baptist Convention - 0.5 million[20]
  • Orissa Evangelical Baptist Crusade - 0.5 million[20]
  • Samavesam of Telugu Baptist Churches - 0.5 million[20]
  • National Baptist Convention (Brazil) - 0.4 million[20]
  • Church of Christ in Congo–Baptist Community of Congo - 0.4 million[23]
  • Baptist Convention of Malawi - 0.3 million[20]
  • Garo Baptist Convention - 0.3 million[20]
  • Convention of Philippine Baptist Churches - 0.3[20]
  • Ghana Baptist Convention - 0.3[20]
  • Union of Baptist Churches in Rwanda - 0.3 million[20]
  • American Baptist Association - 0.3 million[24]
  • Baptist Missionary Association of America - 0.2 million[25]
  • Conservative Baptist Association of America - 0.2 million[26]
  • National Association of Free Will Baptists - 0.2 million[27]
  • Convention of Visayas and Mindanao of Southern Baptist Churches - 0.2 million[20]
  • Manipur Baptist Convention - 0.2 million[20]
  • Baptist Community in Central Africa - 0.2 million[20]

• Lutheranism - 70-90 million[12][28][29]
  • Evangelical Church in Germany - 24.5 million[30]
  • Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus - 8.3 million[31]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania - 6.5 million[32]
  • Church of Sweden - 6.3 million[33]
  • United Evangelical Lutheran Churches in India - 4.5 million[34]
  • Batak Christian Protestant Church - 4.5 million[35]
  • Church of Denmark - 4.4 million[36]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland - 4.0 million[37]
  • Church of Norway - 3.8 million[38]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 3.8 million[39]
  • Malagasy Lutheran Church - 3.0 million[40]
  • Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod - 2.2 million[41]
  • The Lutheran Church of Christ in Nigeria - 2.2 million[42]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Papua New Guinea - 1.2 million[43]
  • Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession in Brazil - 0.7 million[44]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Namibia - 0.7 million[45]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Southern Africa - 0.6 million[46]
  • The Protestant Christian Church - 0.5 million[35]
  • The Indonesian Christian Church - 0.5 million[35]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in the Republic of Namibia - 0.4 million[45]
  • Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod - 0.4 million[47]
  • Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ - 0.4 million
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Cameroon - 0.3 million[48]
  • Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Austria - 0.3 million[49]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church in Zimbabwe - 0.3 million[50]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia - 0.3 million[51]
  • Christian Protestant Church in Indonesia - 0.3 million[35]
  • North American Lutheran Church - 0.2 million
  • Church of Iceland - 0.2 million[52]
  • Simalungun Protestant Christian Church - 0.2 million[35]
  • Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil - 0.2 million[53]
  • Protestant Church of Augsburg Confession of Alsace and Lorraine - 0.2 million[54]
  • The Lutheran Council of Great Britain - 0.2 million
  • Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Slovakia - 0.2 million[55]
  • Evangelical-Lutheran Church in Hungary - 0.2 million[56]
  • Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church - 0.2 million[57]

• Methodism - 60-80 million[12][58][59]
  • United Methodist Church - 12 million[60]
  • African Methodist Episcopal Church - 2.5 million[61]
  • Church of the Nazarene - 2 million[62]
  • Methodist Church Nigeria - 2 million[63]
  • Methodist Church of Southern Africa - 1.7 million[64]
  • Korean Methodist Church - 1.5 million[65]
  • African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church - 1.5 million[66]
  • The Salvation Army - 1.4 million[67]
  • United Methodist Church of Ivory Coast - 1 million[68]
  • Free Methodist Church - 0.9 million[69]
  • Christian Methodist Episcopal Church - 0.9 million[70]
  • Methodist Church Ghana - 0.8 million[71]
  • Methodist Church in India - 0.6 million[72]
  • Methodist Church in Kenya - 0.5 million[73]
  • Wesleyan Church - 0.4 million[74]
  • Evangelical Free Church of America - 0.4 million[75]
  • Methodist Church of Great Britain - 0.3 million[76]
  • Methodist Church in Brazil - 0.2 million[77]

• Calvinism (Reformed churches) - 55-85 million[12][78][79]
  • Presbyterianism - 40-50 million
    • Presbyterian Church of East Africa - 4.0 million[80]
    • Presbyterian Church of Nigeria - 3.8 million[81]
    • Presbyterian Church of Africa - 3.4 million[82]
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (HapDong) - 3.0 million[83]
    • Presbyterian Church of Korea (TongHap) - 2.9 million[84]
    • National Presbyterian Church in Mexico - 2.8 million[85]
    • Church of Christ in Congo–Presbyterian Community of Congo - 2.5 million[86]
    • United Church of Canada - over 2.0 million[87]
    • Presbyterian Church (USA) - 1.8 million[88]
    • Presbyterian Church of Cameroon - 1.8 million[89]
    • Presbyterian Church of India - 1.3 million[90]
    • Church of Central Africa Presbyterian - 1.3 million[91]
    • Church of Scotland - 1.1 million[92]
    • Presbyterian Church of Brazil - 1.0 million[93]
    • Presbyterian Church in Sudan - 1.0 million[94]
    • Presbyterian Church in Cameroon - 0.7 million[95]
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (HapDongBoSu II.) - 0.7 million[96]
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (BaekSeok) - 0.6 million[97]
    • Evangelical Presbyterian Church, Ghana - 0.6 million[98]
    • United Church of Christ in the Philippines - 0.5 million[99]
    • Uniting Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa - 0.5 million[100]
    • Presbyterian Church in America - 0.4 million[101]
    • Presbyterian Church of Pakistan - 0.4 million[102]
    • Korean Presbyterian Church - 0.4 million
    • Presbyterian Church in Korea (Koshin) - 0.4 million
    • Presbyterian Church in Ireland - 0.3 million
    • Uniting Church in Australia - 0.3 million[103]
    • Presbyterian Church in Rwanda - 0.3 million[104]
    • Presbyterian Church in Taiwan - 0.3 million[105]
  • Continental Reformed churches - 20-30 million
    • Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar - 3.5 million[106]
    • Protestant Church in Indonesia - 3.1 million[107]
    • United Church in Zambia - 3.0 million[108]
    • Protestant Church in the Netherlands - 2.5 million[109]
    • Evangelical Church of Cameroon - 2.5 million[110]
    • Swiss Reformed Church - 2.4 million[111]
    • Christian Evangelical Church in Timor - 2.0 million[112]
    • Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa (NGK) - 1.1 million
    • Christian Evangelical Church in Minahasa - 0.7 million[113]
    • United Church in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands - 0.6 million[114]
    • Protestant Church in Western Indonesia - 0.6 million[115]
    • Evangelical Christian Church in Tanah Papua - 0.6 million[116]
    • Protestant Church of Maluku - 0.6 million[117]
    • Reformed Church in Hungary - 0.6 million[118]
    • Reformed Church in Romania - 0.6 million[119]
    • Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa - 0.5 million[120]
    • Toraja Church - 0.4 million[121]
    • Reformed Church of France - 0.4 million[122]
    • Lesotho Evangelical Church - 0.3 million[123]
    • Evangelical Christian Church in Halmahera - 0.3 million[124]
    • Evangelical Reformed Church in Angola - 0.3 million[125]
    • Christian Church of Sumba - 0.3 million[126]
    • Karo Batak Protestant Church - 0.3 million[127]
    • Reformed Church in America - 0.3 million[128]
    • Christian Reformed Church in North America - 0.3 million[129]
    • Christian Reformed Church of Nigeria - 0.3 million[130]
    • Reformed Church in Zambia - 0.3 million[131]
    • Kalimantan Evangelical Church - 0.2 million[132]
    • Javanese Christian Church - 0.2 million[133]
    • Indonesia Christian Church - 0.2 million[134]
    • Church of Christ in the Sudan Among the Tiv - 0.2 million[135]
    • Church of Lippe - 0.2 million[136]
    • Evangelical Church of Congo - 0.2 million[137]
    • Evangelical Church of Gabon - 0.2 million[138]
    • Christian Evangelical Church of Sangihe Talaud - 0.2 million[139]
    • Central Sulawesi Christian Church - 0.2 million[140]
    • Evangelical Reformed Church in Bavaria and Northwestern Germany - 0.2 million[141]
  • Congregationalism - 5 million
    • United Church of Christ - 1.2 million[142]
    • Evangelical Congregational Church in Angola - 0.9 million[143]
    • United Congregational Church of Southern Africa - 0.5 million[144]

• Anabaptism - 4.0 million
  • Mennonites - 2.1 million[145]
  • Schwarzenau Brethren/German Baptists - 1.5 million[146]
  • Amish - 0.3 million
  • Hutterites - 0.05 million
• Hussites - 1 million
  • Moravians - 0.825 million
  • Czechoslovak Hussite Church - 0.14 million
  • Unity of the Brethren - 0.035 million
• Quakers (Religious Society of Friends) - 0.4 million

Modern Protestantism (roots post 1800) - 400-500 million

• Pentecostalism - 280 million[12]
  • Assemblies of God - 65 million[147]
  • Apostolic Church - 15 million
  • Fangcheng Fellowship - 12 million
  • International Circle of Faith - 11 million[148]
  • China Gospel Fellowship - 10 million
  • Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) - 9 million
  • International Church of the Foursquare Gospel - 9 million
  • Church of God in Christ - 6.5 million[149]
  • Jesus is Lord Church - 6 million
  • International Pentecostal Holiness Church - 4 million
  • United Pentecostal Church International - 4 million
  • The Pentecostal Mission - 2.5 million
  • Christian Congregation of Brazil - 2.5 million
  • True Jesus Church - 2.5 million
  • The Church of Pentecost - 2.1 million
  • Universal Church of the Kingdom of God - 2 million
  • Pentecostal Assemblies of the World - 1.5 million
  • Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa - 1.2 million
  • Church of God of Prophecy - 1.5 million
  • Association of Pentecostal Churches of Rwanda - 1 million
  • God is Love Pentecostal Church - 0.8 million
• Nondenominational evangelicalism - 80 million
  • Calvary Chapel - 25 million
  • Born Again Movement - 3 million[150]
  • Association of Vineyard Churches - 15 million
  • Christian and Missionary Alliance - 4 million[151]
  • Church of God (Anderson, Indiana) - 1.2 million
• African initiated Protestant churches - 60 million[152]
  • Zion Christian Church - 15 million
  • Eternal Sacred Order of Cherubim and Seraphim - 10 million
  • Kimbanguist Church - 5.5 million
  • Church of the Lord (Aladura) - 3.6 million[153]
  • Council of African Instituted Churches - 3 million[154]
  • Church of Christ Light of the Holy Spirit - 1.4 million[155]
  • African Church of the Holy Spirit - 0.7 million[156]
  • African Israel Church Nineveh - 0.5 million[157]
• Seventh-day Adventist Church - 20.0 million[158]
• New Apostolic Church - 10 million[159]
• Chinese-originated and Chinese Independent Churches – 10 million
  • Local Churches – between 1 and 10 million
  • Eastern Lightning – 1 million
  • The Shouters – unknown, probably less than 1 million
• Restoration Movement - 7 million
  • Churches of Christ - 5 million
  • Christian churches and churches of Christ - 1.1 million[21]
  • Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) - 0.7 million[160]
  • Community of Disciples of Christ in Congo - 0.7 million[161]
• Plymouth Brethren - 1 million[162]

There are SOME of the biggest ones

Well, that still leaves 29,779 according to your numbers. So then...

 

[beebert]

You seem to be determined to make it be the Roman Catholic Church. Or are you keeping your eye on the Eastern Orthodox churches as candidates for being the one true church instead?


Hmmm. Well, I think it's a question of what is meant by that phrase. If it is supposed to mean that this is all that Christianity is about, then that probably isn't a correct view. But if it is intended to say that this is the essence or most basic belief that describes the church of Christ, then that would be a different matter.


So...are we speaking now of universalism?


Certainly. But the point is that you said Sola Scriptura was the cause of a proliferation of denominations when the truth is that there already were a number of competing churches prior to the Reformation.


I'll give you my opinion. Is that what you're after? I thought you were arguing that there is only one true denomination and it must be a pre-Reformation one (for some reason).

]
It wasn't until the 4th century that the Scriptures--ALREADY IN USE AND CONSIDERED TO BE INSPIRED--were codified. It was a rather minor move, as a matter of fact, since only three or four of the books of the NT were in question going into those councils, as you know.


Since all the Catholic churches accept the Bible as the inspired word of God, as well as do the reformed churches, I don't really see a point here. Perhaps it is an issue concerning interpretation, but if that is it, I still don't see that you've made a case. I'm a Protestant and certainly am not committed to some theologian's interpretation of everything.

I think I am right now leaning towards considering the Orthodox Church to be true... I believe it to be a serious problem that most protestant denominations have de-sacramentalized the world...

Regarding universalism, no. Though I hope for it of course, who wouldn't? But what I mean is that the world is redeemed in a sense. Just as the world fell in Adam, it is redeemed in Christ, and that redemption of the world can be experienced through salvation. It isn't just the redemption of YOUR soul, it is the redemption of the whole cosmos.

 

[beebert]

Well, that still leaves 29,779 according to your numbers. So then...

Yes, but listing 33 000 denominations... That takes some time

 

[Albion]

And I want you guys to understand that tradition doesn't mean traditionalism. Tradition means the protection of the pure faith once delivered by the saints.

We understand the difference, but you need to understand that "Tradition" is only a theological theory, and one that has been widely abused in order to justify the invention of new doctrines that have no basis in Scripture.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Yes, but listing 33 000 denominations... That takes some time

We'll wait...

 

[Petros2015]

Eastern Lightning – 1 million

Eastern Lightning for the win! Eastern Lightning - Wikipedia

 

[Phil 1:21]

Eastern Lightning for the win! Eastern Lightning - Wikipedia

Definitely the coolest name.