Rom 9:30-33 Chosen According to Faith

[bcbsr]

Chosen According to Faith

Rom 9:30-33 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

This is what this chapter is really all about. It's not about fatalism. It's not about the righteous being a nebuluous, vague category of people. But rather that righteousness is obtained by faith and not by works of the law, not by conformity to regulations. It's saying that God's choice is not based upon one's ethnic background nor conformity to law, but rather everyone who believes in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, is reckoned among the righteous.

Faith is the essential element often left out of discussions of the meaning of Romans 9. Yet we find the subject of faith abundantly covered in chapter 10 which is what this chapter has been leading up to. Thus earlier in Romans 9 he's simply stating the fact that God has the right to be gracious to whom he will. But he leads up to the fact that the category of people God has chosen to be gracious to are those who put their faith in Christ.

This is a stumbling block for the proud, as typified by Jewish unbelievers. For God has so orchestrated the gospel as to dissuade the proud from accepting it. Jesus came as a humble, poor man from an area despised by the proud provincial Jews. That was a stumbling block. His message was one humiliating the religious elite. That was a stumbling block to the proud Jewish religious elite, one which got him killed. His message was that of salvation by faith apart from works. That was stumbling block to those self-reliant Jews who reckoned themselves good enough to be saved on their own merits. And such a gospel was offered equally to Gentiles, which again was a stumbling block for Jews who in their pride were prejudice against non-Jews.

Consequently in preaching the gospel, don't cater to people's pride. Seems God wants the proud to be "turned off" to the message. He wants the message so construed that they stumble over their own pride. For unless one humbly receives the message, they're not coming through the door, they're coming through the window.

"Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone," and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message— which is also what they were destined for." 1Peter 2:7-8

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

 

[Arc F1]

Chosen According to Faith

Rom 9:30-33 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

This is what this chapter is really all about. It's not about fatalism. It's not about the righteous being a nebuluous, vague category of people. But rather that righteousness is obtained by faith and not by works of the law, not by conformity to regulations. It's saying that God's choice is not based upon one's ethnic background nor conformity to law, but rather everyone who believes in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, is reckoned among the righteous.

Faith is the essential element often left out of discussions of the meaning of Romans 9. Yet we find the subject of faith abundantly covered in chapter 10 which is what this chapter has been leading up to. Thus earlier in Romans 9 he's simply stating the fact that God has the right to be gracious to whom he will. But he leads up to the fact that the category of people God has chosen to be gracious to are those who put their faith in Christ.

This is a stumbling block for the proud, as typified by Jewish unbelievers. For God has so orchestrated the gospel as to dissuade the proud from accepting it. Jesus came as a humble, poor man from an area despised by the proud provincial Jews. That was a stumbling block. His message was one humiliating the religious elite. That was a stumbling block to the proud Jewish religious elite, one which got him killed. His message was that of salvation by faith apart from works. That was stumbling block to those self-reliant Jews who reckoned themselves good enough to be saved on their own merits. And such a gospel was offered equally to Gentiles, which again was a stumbling block for Jews who in their pride were prejudice against non-Jews.

Consequently in preaching the gospel, don't cater to people's pride. Seems God wants the proud to be "turned off" to the message. He wants the message so construed that they stumble over their own pride. For unless one humbly receives the message, they're not coming through the door, they're coming through the window.

"Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone," and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message— which is also what they were destined for." 1Peter 2:7-8

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

I see a lot of faith not works discussions and I have to say I'm not understanding most of it. I hear" faith alone will save you " but the way I see it if you have faith you will do good works. They both go hand in hand. You can't have faith and not also do good.

 

[Oseas]

This is a stumbling block for the proud, as typified by Jewish unbelievers

JESUS said to the Jews: John 5:v.43-47
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER shall come in his own name (AN IMPOSTOR, a false Christ, a false messiah) him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

2Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth(believed not in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[bcbsr]

I see a lot of faith not works discussions and I have to say I'm not understanding most of it. I hear" faith alone will save you " but the way I see it if you have faith you will do good works. They both go hand in hand. You can't have faith and not also do good.

Rom 4:4-8 "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Do you think your salvation is contingent upon your works, or are you trusting God to save you apart from issues of performance?

 

[Arc F1]

Rom 4:4-8 "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Do you think your salvation is contingent upon your works, or are you trusting God to save you apart from issues of performance?

I believe in faith but you can't have faith without doing good works.
Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
I understand this to be people of faith who didn't put forth the effort by also doing good works.

 

[Psalm 52.8]

I think if Paul's message is understood, the faith and works subject should not be so divisive. A person is saved by faith, and faith is their one and only righteousness before God as long as they live-from first to last(Romans1:17)
How will a truly born again christian react to such knowledge? Can they say ''I can now go out and commit adultery, murder, steal, lie etc as much as I want and I don't care if I act like that for I am only righteous in God's sight by faith?'' It is utterly impossible for a person truly born again to react that way. In Paul's view, a belief you only have one righteousness before God-faith, leads to victory over sin, not a licence to sin(Romans14:6). But the human mind cannot fathom that.
As soon as you say to someone: ''You are initially saved by faith but you can only remain saved if good works follow(or obedience to the law)'' Any person who believes that can no longer live under a righteousness of faith in Christ. For the law is not based on faith(Gal3:12)
I am reminded of the parable of the sower, and satan being able to snatch the word out of a persons heart that had been placed there. For when you accept Christ as your saviour, you stand before God righteous in his sight, solely by faith in Christ. You did not nothing to earn or deserve that righteousness, you know that is the truth, for the word is in your heart. But convince such a person he cannot keep his righteousness by faith in Christ alone, and the true word is snatched out his heart.

 

[Soyeong]

Chosen According to Faith

Rom 9:30-33 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

This is what this chapter is really all about. It's not about fatalism. It's not about the righteous being a nebuluous, vague category of people. But rather that righteousness is obtained by faith and not by works of the law, not by conformity to regulations. It's saying that God's choice is not based upon one's ethnic background nor conformity to law, but rather everyone who believes in Christ, whether Jew or Gentile, is reckoned among the righteous.

Faith is the essential element often left out of discussions of the meaning of Romans 9. Yet we find the subject of faith abundantly covered in chapter 10 which is what this chapter has been leading up to. Thus earlier in Romans 9 he's simply stating the fact that God has the right to be gracious to whom he will. But he leads up to the fact that the category of people God has chosen to be gracious to are those who put their faith in Christ.

This is a stumbling block for the proud, as typified by Jewish unbelievers. For God has so orchestrated the gospel as to dissuade the proud from accepting it. Jesus came as a humble, poor man from an area despised by the proud provincial Jews. That was a stumbling block. His message was one humiliating the religious elite. That was a stumbling block to the proud Jewish religious elite, one which got him killed. His message was that of salvation by faith apart from works. That was stumbling block to those self-reliant Jews who reckoned themselves good enough to be saved on their own merits. And such a gospel was offered equally to Gentiles, which again was a stumbling block for Jews who in their pride were prejudice against non-Jews.

Consequently in preaching the gospel, don't cater to people's pride. Seems God wants the proud to be "turned off" to the message. He wants the message so construed that they stumble over their own pride. For unless one humbly receives the message, they're not coming through the door, they're coming through the window.

"Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone," and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message— which is also what they were destined for." 1Peter 2:7-8

The Berean Christian Bible Study Resources

In Romans 9:30-10:4, Israel had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own instead of pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. This faith quotes Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, and in regard to what it means to submit to Jesus as Lord.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is, so the Gospel certainly is not apart from works. In Romans 15:18-19, Paul's Gospel message involved bringing the Gentiles to obedience in word and in deed. In Romans 10:16, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, and 1 Peter 4:17, it speaks against those who not obey the Gospel. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, so the misunderstanding of the goal of the law that is not based on knowledge is that it obedience to it is about being self-reliant when in reality it is about putting our faith in Christ to guide us.

 

[Soyeong]

Rom 4:4-8 "Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Do you think your salvation is contingent upon your works, or are you trusting God to save you apart from issues of performance?

If I were to tell you to do something that was only for my good, then by you choosing to do that you would be earning a wage for which I would be obligated to pay you in return for your efforts, however, if I were to tell you to do something that was for your own good, then by choosing to do that, you would instead be putting your faith in me to rightly guide you. In the same way, our obedience to God's law is for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so our obedience to is not about relying on our own efforts to earn our justification so that God is obligated to give it to us in return for our efforts, but rather our obedience is about putting our faith in God to rightly guide us, and it is by that same faith that we are justified.

So Romans 4:4-8 is speaking against the concept of earning our justification by our works, but rather we are justified by faith, however, it but it is not saying that that our faith abolishes our need to do good works in regard to our justification because Abraham was justified when he offered Isaac (James 2:21). In Romans 3:27-31, Paul did not want us to conclude from the fact that we are justified by faith apart form works of the law that our faith therefore abolishes our need to obey God's law, but rather he said that our faith upholds it. While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was justified, it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so he did not earn his justification by his obedience, but rather the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our salvation is contingent upon doing those things, but not for the purpose of earning it. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so it doesn't even make sense to take the concept of Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law and try to remove it from our need to repent and to live in obedience to God's law through faith.

 

[Soyeong]

I think if Paul's message is understood, the faith and works subject should not be so divisive. A person is saved by faith, and faith is their one and only righteousness before God as long as they live-from first to last(Romans1:17)
How will a truly born again christian react to such knowledge? Can they say ''I can now go out and commit adultery, murder, steal, lie etc as much as I want and I don't care if I act like that for I am only righteous in God's sight by faith?'' It is utterly impossible for a person truly born again to react that way. In Paul's view, a belief you only have one righteousness before God-faith, leads to victory over sin, not a licence to sin(Romans14:6). But the human mind cannot fathom that.
As soon as you say to someone: ''You are initially saved by faith but you can only remain saved if good works follow(or obedience to the law)'' Any person who believes that can no longer live under a righteousness of faith in Christ. For the law is not based on faith(Gal3:12)
I am reminded of the parable of the sower, and satan being able to snatch the word out of a persons heart that had been placed there. For when you accept Christ as your saviour, you stand before God righteous in his sight, solely by faith in Christ. You did not nothing to earn or deserve that righteousness, you know that is the truth, for the word is in your heart. But convince such a person he cannot keep his righteousness by faith in Christ alone, and the true word is snatched out his heart.

Obedience to any set of instructions that our for our own good is about putting our faith in the one who gave them, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law. What we believe is expressed through our actions, which is why James 2:17-18 says that faith without works is dead and that he would show his faith by his works, so doing good works is what faith looks like. Every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is an example of someone obeying God's will. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In John 6:40, those who believe in the Son will have eternal life, and in Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that if we want to enter into eternal life, then obey the commandments, so obedience to the commandments is what it looks like to believe in Jesus. In John 3:36, it likewise equates believing in Jesus with obeying His commands. In Habakkuk 2:4, the righteous shall live by faith, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law.

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law that is of works with a law that is of faith, so works of the law are of works, while said in 3:31 that our faith upholds God's law, so God's law is of faith. In Galatians 3:10-12, it does not say that God's law is not based on faith, but rather it says that works of the law are not based on faith. In those verses, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 with a quote from Leviticus 18:5, so the righteous who live by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to God's law. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7, Nehemiah 9:13) and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is trustworthy, so to put out faith in the law is to put our faith in the Lawgiver, while to deny that God's law is of faith is to deny that the Lawgiver is trustworthy.