It is the doers of the Law who are righteous before God.

[Guojing]

As in "I do not agree with what your post claims Jesus meant".

That means you are disagreeing with the literal meaning of those verses

Nothing wrong with admitting that, many people here spiritualize the meaning of verses, all the time

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That means you are disagreeing with the literal meaning of those verses

Nope. It means I disagree with your opinion about the verses.

 

[Guojing]

Nope. It means I disagree with your opinion about the verses.

Seems you like to go around in circles.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

It is not my opinion that Jesus's first coming was only unto the house of Israel.

Its literally what Jesus actually said.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

It is not my opinion that Jesus's first coming was only unto the house of Israel.

Its literally what Jesus actually said.

The verse does not say what you say. I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. is about being sent not about mission.

But Jesus cried and said: He that believeth in me doth not believe in me, but in him that sent me. And he that seeth me, seeth him that sent me. I am come, a light into the world, that whosoever believeth in me may not remain in darkness. And if any man hear my words and keep them not, I do not judge him for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that despiseth me and receiveth not my words hath one that judgeth him. The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself: but the Father who sent me, he gave me commandment what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting. The things therefore that I speak, even as the Father said unto me, so do I speak.​

[Joh 12:44-50]
this passage is about mission.

 

[Guojing]

The verse does not say what you say. I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. is about being sent not about mission.

But Jesus cried and said: He that believeth in me doth not believe in me, but in him that sent me. And he that seeth me, seeth him that sent me. I am come, a light into the world, that whosoever believeth in me may not remain in darkness. And if any man hear my words and keep them not, I do not judge him for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that despiseth me and receiveth not my words hath one that judgeth him. The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself: but the Father who sent me, he gave me commandment what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting. The things therefore that I speak, even as the Father said unto me, so do I speak.​

[Joh 12:44-50]
this passage is about mission.

Was Jesus such a poor speaker that he needs you to explain, using another passage that is not even in the context, what he really meant in Matthew 15:24?

Did you notice none of the 12 were shocked and bothered to even try to help Jesus explain to the gentile lady, like what you are doing here?

 

[JulieB67]

Since you are aware that times have changed, do you know why the early church did sell all they have in Acts 2:44-45 and Acts 4:32, and why that command does not apply to you today?

First and foremost, the early churches were of one mind. There were no divisions like today (man's fault...) and they spread the word usually from home to home, etc, some not having homes because of that and so on. Everything was put to the care of the church and those in need to keep things going. They were all in one accordance with one another.

Acts 4:34 "Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,"

Acts 4:35 "And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."

As I stated earlier, this was so the gospel could be spread.


And you're making light of the gospel that these early disciples/apostles spread. It's by them that we have the gospel of Christ that is the power of God to salvation. In Mark it even states "Go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature". Paul was later a chosen vessel to spread the gospel. He even taught the very same thing that Christ did about his return

Matthew 24:42 "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

Matthew 24:43 "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

Peter teaching -

I Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Then later Paul is teaching it

I Corinthians 1:8 "Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

This is Paul teaching that we are to be confirmed unto the end in the day of our Lord. Same day. It's not a pretrib secret rapture because we see from Peter what happens and then with Paul in these next verses-

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." (same day as in 1st Cor 1:8)

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Back to Christ teaching it

Revelation 16:15 "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."

This is an example of both Peter and Paul teaching the same thing that Christ taught. The only mystery that Paul speaks of is that "all are changed at the last trump"

Paul taught and certainly gave advice towards behavior in and outside the church and home, etc. But he certainly taught the gospel of Christ.



You're argument has no merit whatsoever. And I see as usual you had no answer for the verses I posted. Instead you come back with this. Is it possible for you to go down the verses I posted and answer those instead of circling back? Usually people that have no answer circle back.



Thessalonians 5:26 "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss."

This is a command from Paul, do you today greet all your Christian brethren with a kiss?


Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

If Paul was teaching us not to follow the gospel of Christ, he would not have written this. Instead he writes that the gospel of Christ is the power of God in which we receive our salvation. You would refute the power of God?

If we were not to follow Christ's word, he would not have written this -


Corinthians 1:4 "I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;"

I Corinthians 1:5 "That in every thing ye are enriched by Him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;"

I Corinthians 1:6 "Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:


You are also in one of these groups below and don't seem to care. You state you are a Christian but separate the gospels when there is only one for all. Spread to different people, same gospel.


Corinthians 1:12 "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, "I am of Paul", and "I am of Apollos"; and "I am of Cephas"; and "I am of Christ"."

I Corinthians 1:13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

If the entire bible was not relevant to all, Paul would not teach from the OT but he does, just as Christ did -

I Corinthians 1:30 "But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, Who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"

I Corinthians 1:31 "That, according as it is written, "He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

That's from Jeremiah. Because as Paul states, our foundation comes from the prophets, apostles with Christ being the cornerstone. It's all relevant. We don't just study Paul.

I Corinthians 3:4 "For while one saith, "I am of Paul"; and another, "I am of Apollos"; are ye not carnal?

Paul states that when you think like this you are thinking in the flesh. So you're are in fact contradicting your own argument about not regarding anyone in the flesh.

 

[Guojing]

As I stated earlier, this was so the gospel could be spread.

Oh, you are not aware about Daniel's 70th week, in the early part of Acts, and that the antichrist was looming?

Think mark of the beast and you will understand why it was wise of them to sell all that they have.

 

[timothyu]

Think mark of the beast and you will understand why it was wise of them to sell all that they have.

How did that work out?

 

[Guojing]

How did that work out?

God planned it beautifully such that, after he revealed to Paul that the prophetic timetable has been postponed (Romans 11:25), and that the Body of Christ was a new creation in the dispensation of grace, the latter contributed money to help the "poor saints in Jerusalem". (1 Corinthians 16:1-4, Acts 21:18-25)

 

[JulieB67]

Think mark of the beast and you will understand why it was wise of them to sell all that they have.

Unbelievable......

And once again, no answer to any of the verses I posted. I guess we're done.

 

[Guojing]

Unbelievable......

And once again, no answer to any of the verses I posted. I guess we're done.

You are saying its unbelievable that the early Acts church was expecting Daniel's 70th week to happen anytime?

There is a point coming, regarding your understanding of Jacob's trouble, as you appear to insist that Paul is teaching we will be going thru as well, if you are still interested to discuss.

 

[JulieB67]

if you are still interested to discuss.

No, because I definitely don't believe in a pretrib rapture as you do yourself. As I said, I used to but I dont find it biblical at all. I see Christ as returning only one more time and have not seen one verse to prove otherwise. We have to take the bible as a whole. As I posted earlier Paul teaches the very same thing that Christ teaches about his return. And both give warnings on this very subject about deception and both very clearly state to be on watch so that day (same day -day of the Lord/Day of Christ) doesn't overtake us as a thief if it should happen in our lifetime. Same warnings about the same day. So I'd rather go with their teaching on this subject.

 

[Guojing]

No, because I definitely don't believe in a pretrib rapture as you do yourself. As I said, I used to but I dont find it biblical at all. I see Christ as returning only one more time and have not seen one verse to prove otherwise. We have to take the bible as a whole. As I posted earlier Paul teaches the very same thing that Christ teaches about his return. And both give warnings on this very subject about deception and both very clearly state to be on watch so that day (same day -day of the Lord/Day of Christ) doesn't overtake us as a thief if it should happen in our lifetime. Same warnings about the same day. So I'd rather go with their teaching on this subject.

I discuss with people whom I disagree with all the time in such forums.

I see value in putting myself in their shoes, reasoning from the same starting point as them, thereby understanding better why they believe the doctrines they hold.

And of course, having to explain my own doctrine to them, helps me understand it much better as well.

If you don't value that, I guess we can move on then.

 

[JulieB67]

If you don't value that, I guess we can move on then.

Sorry, but I don't find any value putting out verses with no response to them at all. So yes, I'd rather move on.

 

[Guojing]

Sorry, but I don't find any value putting out verses with no response to them at all. So yes, I'd rather move on.

That happens to me all the time here, you have done it to me as well

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Have you two decided if it is the doers of the law who are justified?

 

[JulieB67]

you have done it to me as well

I'm pretty sure I've provided a response to verses you've posted whereas you haven't provided ones.

Have you two decided if it is the doers of the law who are justified?

Sorry for being so OT. I will state as I did in my first response that once someone has repented the works should come naturally. That's how we know who is a true Christian or not. We can't just be hearers and not doers. Anyone can read the word and claim to be saved but has that person gone through that true change of heart/repentance? Works are proof of faith.

 

[Guojing]

I'm pretty sure I've provided a response to verses you've posted whereas you haven't provided ones.

I could act like you and kick up a fuss when you did not, but I chose not to. As I said, it happens all the time on forums like these.

When people don't respond to your verses, just let it go.

The worst so far I have encountered recently is when people claim they don't understand your reasoning, even if you present in short paragraphs with scripture, but when you ask them which part they don't understand, they refuse to even tell you.

 

[JulieB67]

When people don't respond to your verses, just let it go.

Well, it's hard to have a biblical discussion without scriptures being involved. I was fed false doctrine for a huge portion of my life so that's the only thing I rely on now is scripture. But I'll let it go....

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Well, it's hard to have a biblical discussion without scriptures being involved. I was fed false doctrine for a huge portion of my life so that's the only thing I rely on now is scripture. But I'll let it go....

Scripture can mislead when handled by one whose purpose is to mislead. There is hardly a single error taught that is not based upon some passage of scripture misapplied or otherwise distorted.