Role Playing

[Caylin]

Why do many christians think that playing RPG's is evil?

 

[Lifesaver]

Because it is the entrance door to many occult beliefs and practices.

 

[ForeRunner]

Or it isn't, and is just a game having nothing to do with the occult.

Some people, not just Christians, are afraid of anything that might remotely challenge the way they see life.

 

[Lifesaver]

It is just a game. And a person who can clearly differentiate games from reality will have no problem with it.

However, many young people think the fictional world of role-playing is so cool that they end up believing in occultic religions and doing actual occult rituals. It's not a conscious movement. First they play the game, feel interested about magic and all thos symbols, search the internet for related stuff, find occultic sites by people who say magic is good, tolerant and open-minded, try some little things for themselves, are not really sure if they worked or not but keep on doing it until they are complete believers.

Truly, RPGs are not the only possible source (there are computer games, TV series, films, comics). None of those is evil in itself, and watching or playing them will not cause any harm per se. But it is undeniable that pre-teenagers and teenagers nowadays find witchcraft and neo-paganism highly appealing, and many are all too willing to let go of reason to dwell in the fantastic and cool world of "magick".

 

[Dyrwen]

Heh.. I can finally understand Christianity's problem with RPG's.

After playing a MMORPG for 9 months straight for sometimes more than 12 hours a day and becoming the character I've created, even after I got tired of the game the social ties I had in the game kept me there. It's better than religion, because you don't have to follow any real commands and better than any life around you because its completely virtual.

Simply astounding..I recommend everyone try a few out. Mind you, this game was "Star Wars Galaxies", not even a "magic" game as some find all RPG's to be. So where exactly is the bad in games such as that? Or the bad in any really? Never did understand the whole occult fear from geeks and their games.

 

[seebs]

FWIW, I have never seen a substantiated report of people getting "caught up in the occult" or anything of the sort. It's always "this guy said he saw it happen", but I've never tracked it back successfully to actual events...

 

[ForeRunner]

Heh.. I can finally understand Christianity's problem with RPG's.

After playing a MMORPG for 9 months straight for sometimes more than 12 hours a day and becoming the character I've created, even after I got tired of the game the social ties I had in the game kept me there. It's better than religion, because you don't have to follow any real commands and better than any life around you because its completely virtual.

Simply astounding..I recommend everyone try a few out. Mind you, this game was "Star Wars Galaxies", not even a "magic" game as some find all RPG's to be. So where exactly is the bad in games such as that? Or the bad in any really? Never did understand the whole occult fear from geeks and their games.

Hey, I played that for 9 months too, as a matter of fact I just cancelled my account 3 days ago. What server did you play on?

 

[ForeRunner]

It is just a game. And a person who can clearly differentiate games from reality will have no problem with it.

Right, which is just about everyone. So it isn't really bad at all.

However, many young people think the fictional world of role-playing is so cool that they end up believing in occultic religions and doing actual occult rituals. It's not a conscious movement. First they play the game, feel interested about magic and all thos symbols, search the internet for related stuff, find occultic sites by people who say magic is good, tolerant and open-minded, try some little things for themselves, are not really sure if they worked or not but keep on doing it until they are complete believers.

This isn't a bad thing. Like I said before, people are afraid of what challenges their worldview. If it isn't what I agree with than it must be bad

Truly, RPGs are not the only possible source (there are computer games, TV series, films, comics). None of those is evil in itself, and watching or playing them will not cause any harm per se. But it is undeniable that pre-teenagers and teenagers nowadays find witchcraft and neo-paganism highly appealing,

Young people find just about anything different to what they are used to appealing. That is part of being young, trying new gloves on to see which fit best.

and many are all too willing to let go of reason to dwell in the fantastic and cool world of "magick".

The world of "magick" is no more or less reasonable than the world of "prayer". Letting go of reason isn't required any more or any less for any belief.

 

[Lifesaver]

Right, which is just about everyone. So it isn't really bad at all.

Don't be so sure.
Surely, the crazy ones are very little in numbers. But the ones who let themselves be influenced by fiction is large.

This isn't a bad thing. Like I said before, people are afraid of what challenges their worldview. If it isn't what I agree with than it must be bad

If you want to make a case for it being good, I'm all ears.

Young people find just about anything different to what they are used to appealing. That is part of being young, trying new gloves on to see which fit best.

And I've got nothing against trying on different drugs.
I feel differently about trying different kinds of poison, though.

The world of "magick" is no more or less reasonable than the world of "prayer". Letting go of reason isn't required any more or any less for any belief.

Not really. But hey, if you really want to ignore the millenia of philosophy and rational defense of the existence of God and put those on the same level of empirically unsubstantiated claims that humans can use magic, feel free to do so. I won't argue that in this thread.

 

[Lifesaver]

FWIW, I have never seen a substantiated report of people getting "caught up in the occult" or anything of the sort. It's always "this guy said he saw it happen", but I've never tracked it back successfully to actual events...

No-one is caught up. They all go to it and remain there out of their own free will.
And though you know of anyone who believes in neo-paganism, you do know that there is a crescent population of them, and that many companies are earning big profits by selling products geared at this population.
If witchcraft magazines are becoming more popular (and where I live, they are), it is because there are more witches or witches sympathizers around.

Some think is a great move towards newer and more open-minded forms of spirituality; I think it's a time-wasting spiritually dangerous fad.

Returning to the thread's subject, RPGs (the fantasy-world ones) might not be the most proeminent form of neo-pagan spirituality spreading, but they are a part of this cultural movement.

 

[HadouKen24]

Out of curiosity, Lifesaver, how often do you play Dungeons & Dragons? (The most popular RPG to date)

Out of all the roleplayers I know, most are not very religious at all, and the rest are fairly strong Christians. I'm the only roleplayer I know who is at all close to "neo-paganism," and I only agree with neo-pagans on a few things more than orthodox Christians. (And no, that has nothing to do with D&D. I actually started playing after adopting the Gnostic approach.)

Perhaps it has to do with my area -- I live in the Bible Belt -- but I'm just not seeing RPGs having much influence on the beliefs of the players.

 

[seebs]

No-one is caught up. They all go to it and remain there out of their own free will.
And though you know of anyone who believes in neo-paganism, you do know that there is a crescent population of them, and that many companies are earning big profits by selling products geared at this population.
If witchcraft magazines are becoming more popular (and where I live, they are), it is because there are more witches or witches sympathizers around.

What's that got to do with gaming? You still haven't shown any hint of evidence that gaming causes anything.

Returning to the thread's subject, RPGs (the fantasy-world ones) might not be the most proeminent form of neo-pagan spirituality spreading, but they are a part of this cultural movement.

No, they aren't.

There, we're even; two totally unsupported claims.

 

[Dyrwen]

Hey, I played that for 9 months too, as a matter of fact I just cancelled my account 3 days ago. What server did you play on?

Heh, I cancelled mine mid march. I was on Bloodfin, Master Ranger/Pistoleer. Which were you on?

Eventually it was just a good social virtual world, no real content, sucked leaving all my friends and guild though.

 

[Havoc]

However, many young people think the fictional world of role-playing is so cool that they end up believing in occultic religions and doing actual occult rituals.

Not actual occult rituals... Nooooooooooooooooo!!!

It's not a conscious movement.

Of course it's a conscious movement. People adopt Paganism because they choose to.

But it is undeniable that pre-teenagers and teenagers nowadays find witchcraft and neo-paganism highly appealing, and many are all too willing to let go of reason to dwell in the fantastic and cool world of "magick".

Of course they find it highly appealing. That's because your religion has failed them and Paganism addresses many things that are meaningful in their lives. However, RPG's have nothing to do with it.

 

[Havoc]

And though you know of anyone who believes in neo-paganism, you do know that there is a crescent population of them, and that many companies are earning big profits by selling products geared at this population.
If witchcraft magazines are becoming more popular (and where I live, they are), it is because there are more witches or witches sympathizers around.

Yes Wicca and Paganism are the fastest growing religions, while your religion is in decline. Companies are starting to realise this and understand that their customer base is changing. Good business means you go where the customers are.

And please have the common decency to capitalise Paganism and Witch. They are proper names and are capitalised. Those of us here who are Pagan are careful to capitalise Christian.

Some think is a great move towards newer and more open-minded forms of spirituality; I think it's a time-wasting spiritually dangerous fad.

Well we Pagans will give your uninformed opinions of our faith all the consideration it deserves.

Returning to the thread's subject, RPGs (the fantasy-world ones) might not be the most proeminent form of neo-pagan spirituality spreading, but they are a part of this cultural movement.

Funny. I've met literally thousands of Witches and other Pagans and none of them consider RPG's to be "spirituality", and none of them say that RPG's had anything to do with their conversion to Paganism.

 

[ForeRunner]

Heh, I cancelled mine mid march. I was on Bloodfin, Master Ranger/Pistoleer. Which were you on?

Eventually it was just a good social virtual world, no real content, sucked leaving all my friends and guild though.

I played on Naritus. I agree, the problem was there was nothing to do. Especially on Naritus where my PA simply dominated in PvP.

 

[ForeRunner]

Don't be so sure.
Surely, the crazy ones are very little in numbers. But the ones who let themselves be influenced by fiction is large.

Fiction is a vehicle to exchange ideas, we are all influenced by fiction. Especially things we don't think are fiction...

If you want to make a case for it being good, I'm all ears.

Paganism provides al the same benefits Christianity does: Structure, Ethical Code, Community, Emotional Support, etc.

And I've got nothing against trying on different drugs.
I feel differently about trying different kinds of poison, though.

Equaity ideas and different worldviews with drugs and poison is a rather sad thing. It tells more about the way you see the world than you'd think.

Not really. But hey, if you really want to ignore the millenia of philosophy and rational defense of the existence of God and put those on the same level of empirically unsubstantiated claims that humans can use magic, feel free to do so. I won't argue that in this thread.

I have never heard of any rational reason to believe in a deity, most of the history of theology was a god-in-the-gaps approach.

Praying and casting spells are the same thing. They are both a way to communicate with your respective deity and do things through them. Christians may pray for another to get well, whereas a Pagan would cast a spell to do so (this is generalizing, paganism is very diverse). See, same thing.

Christianity is no more or less reasonable and defensable than Paganism.

 

[Lifesaver]

No, they aren't.

There, we're even; two totally unsupported claims.

So RPGs do NOT have Neo-Pagan and occult references in them? Do not magic, Witchcraft and Celtic and Norse folklore (which are two of the cultures most Neo-Pagan religions relate to) play an important role in many RPGs?

If they do, then they are indeed part of the crescent Neo-Pagan cultural movement (in other words, they are a part of the group that encompasses all cultural manisfetations that are heavily influenced by Neo-Paganism).

Once again, I'm not against RPGs per se, nor am I against anything which uses Pagan imagery. I just think they can, in addition to other Neo-Pagan cultural manifestations, draw people to these religions, which I, as a Christian, think is a very bad thing.

 

[Lifesaver]

Out of curiosity, Lifesaver, how often do you play Dungeons & Dragons? (The most popular RPG to date)

Never.
I tried for some years to play RPGs with friends, but I could never bring myself to like them (this was years before I even considered becoming a Christian, if you are wondering).

I played some Baldur's Gate 2 later on, but also got bored pretty quickly.

 

[Lifesaver]

Praying and casting spells are the same thing. They are both a way to communicate with your respective deity and do things through them.

Christians ask for God to help them. Witches manipulate an energy to achieve the results they want.

They are fundamentally different.