masmpg

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I see a few mistakes. First, sanctification means "set apart".

Is this all you do is find errors just to show how smart you are?
Sanctification means to set apart but to be sanctified means to be HOLY or be RIGHTEOUS! How can we accomplish this? By doing nothing? It is truly amazing how people blame the SDA denomination for so much. WE, SDAs do not make an issue about works whatsoever! It is people like you who only want to antagonize instead of share, and instruct. You say that works are not necessary for salvation? If you do not believe this why do you accuse me of being works oriented? The bible promotes action, in fact, do you study the bible? Obviously you do, and isn't that works? Stop accusing. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. There are many things you must do, and not do in order to be saved! I will give you a list of them but I believe you already know what they are, but still you will accuse me of teaching that we are saved by our works, when I repeat over and over that we are saved by grace through faith and judged by our works, which is biblical, and I can give you quotes but I already have and you just twist them to mean something else.

For your sake please step off the antagonistic soap box and step back and start sharing instead of defending error.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Is this all you do is find errors just to show how smart you are?
Sanctification means to set apart but to be sanctified means to be HOLY or be RIGHTEOUS! How can we accomplish this? By doing nothing? It is truly amazing how people blame the SDA denomination for so much. WE, SDAs do not make an issue about works whatsoever! It is people like you who only want to antagonize instead of share, and instruct. You say that works are not necessary for salvation? If you do not believe this why do you accuse me of being works oriented? The bible promotes action, in fact, do you study the bible? Obviously you do, and isn't that works? Stop accusing. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. There are many things you must do, and not do in order to be saved! I will give you a list of them but I believe you already know what they are, but still you will accuse me of teaching that we are saved by our works, when I repeat over and over that we are saved by grace through faith and judged by our works, which is biblical, and I can give you quotes but I already have and you just twist them to mean something else.

For your sake please step off the antagonistic soap box and step back and start sharing instead of defending error.
Amen... well said.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Is this all you do is find errors just to show how smart you are?
Sanctification means to set apart but to be sanctified means to be HOLY or be RIGHTEOUS! How can we accomplish this? By doing nothing?

I'm sorry if I come across this way. I'm sorry if it's offensive. I tell you honestly that my heart desires the best for you. I was SDA, my family is SDA, and I write with experience as a minister in the SDA church. Would you rather not be challenged? I doubt that. I would think being challenged is a good thing, as Ellen White herself promotes strongly. I'm truly am sorry if it comes across as accusation or with a spirit of condescension or arrogance. I write strongly intentionally so as to make my points with conviction.

Back to sanctification, sanctification is not something to be accomplished. It's not a process. It doesn't start at sin and end at perfection. It is not a life long process. Sanctification describes the new creation, the setting apart, the "born again" moment. At the moment we believe, we are made righteous, we are made holy. From that point on we learn to live outwardly in the reality of who we are inwardly; this is the renewing of the mind, the transformation that occurs in us after we are saved. This process should be not be labelled sanctification, but transformation.

why do you accuse me of being works oriented?

The SDA faith, as described in it's 28 fundamentals, is works orientated in my opinion. Especially the Investigative Judgment:

The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom.

It's subtle. But linking the idea of "keeping commandments" with "ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom" undermines the gospel, the good news that Jesus did it all, and we are already judged worthy by entering into His New Covenant.

The bible promotes action, in fact, do you study the bible?

For the sake of your ability to receive from my writing, I have read a chapter of the Bible a day since I was 12 years old. This is the minimum (until about 2 years ago). I also read whole books of the New Testament sometimes multiple times a day (Romans 1-8, Galatians, Corinthians, Hebrews especially). I would assume most who discuss these things read the Bible often. I agree the Bible promotes action. Faith births action most definitely. We are in agreement on this.

Obviously you do, and isn't that works?

I'll try and explain as clearly as I can. Salvation and works are separate with regard to our eternal relationship with God. Salvation is secured by Jesus and does not rely on our works before or after we believe. Salvation is assured by the Holy Spirit given as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance to come. On the other hand, works follow those who believe. We focus on worshiping Jesus and renewing our mind to who we really are in Him. Our true identity. Works naturally follow. But works do not affect our salvation directly. Only in the very indirect way of sin leading to the choice of breaking relationship with God. Works are judged with regard to heavenly rewards, not for salvation. We build works in our spirit, our heavenly body (we live on earth yet the kingdom of heaven is within us) stores treasures that will become evident when we are transformed bodily through the resurrection. So salvation does not rely on works. But salvation will produce works that will become evident at the resurrection and forevermore.

There are many things you must do, and not do in order to be saved!

Here is the crucial difference in our views. There is only one thing we can do to gain salvation, receive it. There is only one thing we can do to lose salvation, reject it. To sin is not to reject, but it moves us in that direction. Sin grieves the Holy Spirit, it doesn't reject Him and divorce us from the New Covenant.

For your sake please step off the antagonistic soap box and step back and start sharing instead of defending error.

I will try.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Back to sanctification, sanctification is not something to be accomplished. It's not a process. It doesn't start at sin and end at perfection. It is not a life long process. Sanctification describes the new creation, the setting apart, the "born again" moment. At the moment we believe, we are made righteous, we are made holy. From that point on we learn to live outwardly in the reality of who we are inwardly; this is the renewing of the mind, the transformation that occurs in us after we are saved. This process should be not be labelled sanctification, but transformation.
What you are describing is Justification....


The SDA faith, as described in it's 28 fundamentals, is works orientated in my opinion. Especially the Investigative Judgment:

The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom.

It's subtle. But linking the idea of "keeping commandments" with "ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom" undermines the gospel, the good news that Jesus did it all, and we are already judged worthy by entering into His New Covenant.

So, in your understanding, you can be disobedient to the given Commandments and still gain eternity?


For the sake of your ability to receive from my writing, I have read a chapter of the Bible a day since I was 12 years old. This is the minimum (until about 2 years ago). I also read whole books of the New Testament sometimes multiple times a day (Romans 1-8, Galatians, Corinthians, Hebrews especially). I would assume most who discuss these things read the Bible often. I agree the Bible promotes action. Faith births action most definitely. We are in agreement on this.

Reading does not equal study and even the Pharisees were well read in the scriptures but got them so wrong. Nobody knows the Word of God like Satan.... void of the Spirit, the scriptures will be wrongly understood.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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What you are describing is Justification....

Indeed. Justification and sanctification are basically the same with only subtle differences.

So, in your understanding, you can be disobedient to the given Commandments and still gain eternity?

Keeping commandments has never been related to eternal life. In the Mosaic covenant keeping the Law enabled God's blessing and breaking the Law brought on cursing. Eternal salvation was not gained by keeping the Law, not then, and not now.

Reading does not equal study and even the Pharisees were well read in the scriptures but got them so wrong. Nobody knows the Word of God like Satan.... void of the Spirit, the scriptures will be wrongly understood.

Ok. Are you saying I'm a Pharisee? Are you saying I'm Satan? Are you saying I'm void of the Spirit? Are you saying anyone who wrongly understands scripture void of the Spirit? I don't really understand why you would write this? I was asked if I read the Bible. I answered. And you tell me reading the Bible is useless if I don't come to the same conclusions as you.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Indeed. Justification and sanctification are basically the same with only subtle differences.

Not same at all.. hence the different name.



Keeping commandments has never been related to eternal life.

Bible says otherwise... I'll believe what it says.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

In the Mosaic covenant keeping the Law enabled God's blessing and breaking the Law brought on cursing. Eternal salvation was not gained by keeping the Law, not then, and not now.
Do you think there will be Laws, Rules, Boundries in Heaven and the new earth? Or will it just be the same as it is here on earth, where everyone gets to have their own "it fits me" kinda relationship with God? Over and over and over throughout scripture and multiple times by Christ Himself, we are asked to keep His Commandments. Why the need for the disobedience? Is it that difficult to submit and do as our Creator asks of us? Really!!?

Ok. Are you saying I'm a Pharisee? Are you saying I'm Satan? Are you saying I'm void of the Spirit? Are you saying anyone who wrongly understands scripture void of the Spirit? I don't really understand why you would write this? I was asked if I read the Bible. I answered. And you tell me reading the Bible is useless if I don't come to the same conclusions as you.
Of course I wasn't referring to you like them, I was using their example to show that topical reading the Bible only scratches the surface and doesn't reveal the deeper, hidden treasures on the Word that need to be mined like precious gems.

Bible study, on the other hand... line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little, comparing scripture with scripture with the Holy Spirit leading, leads to understanding the deeper truths of the Word.

Posting in an Adventist room, you're going to find out that we are the most Bible studied denomination of Christendom and even though you may have you own different beliefs on certain subjects, we can show from scripture every pillar of our faith that lines up with what the entire Bible says on the subject, not just a verse or two . There is more Adventist study material in existence than the other denominations combined. I have watched prophesy study video series that were 60 hours long, held over weeks in different locations. We are serious about our Bible.... because we love Jesus and want to please Him through our obedience.

Just do as He asks...
 
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Dave-W

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Indeed. Justification and sanctification are basically the same with only subtle differences.
Not true.

Justification is a legal process wherein someone is declared "just." It has little to do with physical performance.

Sanctification OTOH is all about physical performance being brought into line with the justification.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Sanctification OTOH is all about physical performance being brought into line with the justification.

Sanctification has two basic meanings:
1. To be consecrated or set apart
2. The effect of being consecrated or set apart

The physical performance you speak of has to do with point 2 above. But Point 2 is the effect of Point 1. First we are set apart, second we do good works. The setting apart causes the good works. This is not a process of removing sin, but of becoming like Christ in every way. Justification is to be placed in Christ, but Justification does not speak of the effect of being justified. Sanctification is also to be placed in Christ with regard to what the effect is of being placed in Christ. In Christ=good works flow; it is not an order to obey, but the natural outworking of the Spirit. He works in us on His own, we just relax and let Him. Striving is removed; sitting at His feet becomes normal.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Bible says otherwise... I'll believe what it says.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The actual form of the Greek in the text suggests the translation "Blessed are those who wash their robes". Nevertheless if you hold fast to the "commandments" translation I always like to take note of how the writer of a letter or revelation intends for his words to be understood. John, as the writer of Revelation, gives us what he means by "do his commandments" in his letters first, second, third John.


1 John 3:23 “And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.”

1 John 4:21 “And this is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5:1-5 Faith in Jesus overcomes the world and fulfils the commandments.

2 John 5 “... not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.”
 
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masmpg

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I was SDA, my family is SDA, and I write with experience as a minister in the SDA church. Would you rather not be challenged? I doubt that. I would think being challenged is a good thing, as Ellen White herself promotes strongly. I'm truly am sorry if it comes across as accusation or with a spirit of condescension or arrogance. I write strongly intentionally so as to make my points with conviction.

I will try this one more time. I have been very sick lately from all the storms on the left coast so I have not been posting anything. I must ask if you desire to learn? I am on here to learn as much as share the truth the Lord has revealed to me through the Comforter. You accuse me of only saying what Ellen White says. That is not true. What I write comes from the bible alone. I agree 100% with what Sister White has written, and challenge anybody to prove her errors from the bible alone, without the bias of the unbelievers. She wrote over 150,000 pages and to take a couple sentences out of context just to "prove" error is out of line. What you write is fully desmond ford and not bible. I will share what the bible says about the most important issue facing Christianity, and the most perverted doctrine of all by satan, the doctrine of conversion.

What I write is NOT ellen white said! What I write is agreed on through the comforter with many around the world. God's church is a united body, not a bunch of independent preachers with each one a different twist on the gospel. There is only One church, which is brought together through the convictions of the Comforter. We do not seek God. He seeks us through the job of the Comforter of reproving of sin and righteousness and judgment. Those who are being reproved of sin are unbelievers. Those who are living in sin had better be praying for that conviction because when we are sinning we are living in unbelief, like the author of Hebrews describes in chapter 3&4. This unbelief is a belief that Jesus cannot give us victory over all sin in our lives, so we excuse our sins by saying His righteousness "covers" our sins. His righteousness will not cover ONE unconfessed sin, so our prayers have to be "show me my sins so I can repent of them". That is sanctification! I will prove it here from the bible alone.

Back to sanctification, sanctification is not something to be accomplished. It's not a process. It doesn't start at sin and end at perfection. It is not a life long process. Sanctification describes the new creation, the setting apart, the "born again" moment. At the moment we believe, we are made righteous, we are made holy. From that point on we learn to live outwardly in the reality of who we are inwardly; this is the renewing of the mind, the transformation that occurs in us after we are saved. This process should be not be labelled sanctification, but transformation.

What you just described here is justification. Justification and sanctification are both processes. Romans 7 proves this. Most of Christendom believe that the man of Romans 7 is a converted, justified Christian, but this is not the case. What Paul writes in Romans:7:19: "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." This is not a Christian experience. A Christian does not do what he does not want to do and not do what the Lord wants him to do! Paul also writes in verse 14: "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." A Christian is not carnal, neither is he sold under sin! This is the process of becoming converted that everyone must go through as they are being drawn through the convictions of the Comforter. At the end of the chapter this man cries out "Oh wretched man that I am..." It is at this point that he realizes that he cannot fix himself and the last verse tell us that he is justified at that time, Romans:7:25: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." This is the end of the process of justification , but the Christian walk of sanctification is just beginning as we shall see in Romans 8.

This is so simple to argue against this is proof that people just want to be right and care less about the truth. Romans 8:1 is the start of the Christian walk of sanctification. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Notice the word "walk". Walking is a process. As we walk on the path of life that we create for ourselves the Comforter must show us the way. To believe that at justification everything ends totally deletes the work of the Comforter. Forensic justification is the most deadly error to deceive God's church.

As we are on our "walk" we find that we are NOT carnal, neither are we in the flesh, as long as we are in the Spirit. To be in the Spirit and to believe that we can still be in the flesh, and sinning is unbelief. Paul tells us that it is impossible to be in the flesh and the Spirit at the same time. Romans:8:5: "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." How can anybody say they are in the Spirit as they knowingly sin? That is a lie form satan himself.

The greatest verse that tells us of the process of sanctification is 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." We are changed into the image of Christ from "glory to glory". This denotes a process. We do not know everything at conversion. We will never know everything that is why this process of sanctification goes on forever, even though we are sanctified, past tense every step of the way, because we must be sanctified before we can do the Lord's work according to 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

There is so much more I would really like to share with you, but if you want to sit in the forensic justification fence of des ford then there is nothing more I can say to you that will convince you which the Comforter is not already trying to convince you of now. The Christian walk is a battle, and in battle victories are won. To say that all is done when we first say a few words and "accept" Jesus is far from the Christian experience. I suggest you do some word studies on obedience, victory, overcome. To quote from a uninspired watered down SDA doctrinal "manual" instead of the bible proves your lack of desire to really break it down. Your comments are far from biblical.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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What I write comes from the bible alone. I agree 100% with what Sister White has written, and challenge anybody to prove her errors from the bible alone

This means you believe Ellen White understood the Bible 100% perfectly. This is clearly false as she changed her views and encouraged others to do so. No one knows 100%. We all learn from the Holy Spirit and our learning continues (as you allude to in your first paragraph attempting to antagonize). For example, Ellen White believed the Sabbath is a New Covenant practice. The Bible teaches otherwise, "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13). The Bible makes much more sense when we examine covenants and how they operate. Ellen White did not understand covenants. She believed every covenant was basically the same covenant revised.

Do you believe our covenant today is the same as the covenant made with Moses but is now written on our hearts? There is Law written on our hearts, it is this, "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" (John 13:34). The old covenant was summed up by loving God and loving each other as we love ourselves. The new covenant is to love each other as God loves us. This is THE NEW command. Yes, Jesus gave A NEW COMMAND. It is a NEW COVENANT. It is different, it is better.

What you write is fully desmond ford and not bible.

Well, show me how it is not the Bible, because I disagree obviously. (p.s. Des loved E.G.W. and quoted from her often, but I do not defend him because I agree with him, I actually disagree with much of what he teaches, I defend because he helped me greatly and his teaching on the gospel is far better than Ellen White or the SDA church has ever understood; including you).

There is only One church, which is brought together through the convictions of the Comforter.

Agree but would word it very differently.

We do not seek God.

Speak for yourself.

He seeks us through the job of the Comforter of reproving of sin and righteousness and judgment.

He does. He convicts the world of sin, believers of righteousness, and the devil of judgment (John 16:8-11) - verse 8 is explained afterwards, we mustn't read it in isolation.

His righteousness will not cover ONE unconfessed sin, so our prayers have to be "show me my sins so I can repent of them". That is sanctification! I will prove it here from the bible alone.

I'm very sorry you feel this way. Romans 5:8-10 is just one passage that disagrees with you.

Justification and sanctification are both processes.

What do you mean by saying justification is a process? It seems to me you are confused just as Ellen White was confused.

Sanctification is the act or process of acquiring sanctity, of being made or becoming holy."Sanctity" is an ancient concept widespread among religions.It is a gift given through the power of God to a person or thing which is then considered sacred or set apart in an official capacity within the religion, in general anything from a temple, to vessels, to days of the week, to a human believer who willingly accepts this gift can be sanctified.To sanctify is to literally "set apart for particular use in a special purpose or work and to make holy or sacred."Etymologically, "sanctify" derives from the Latin verb sanctificare which in turn derives from sanctus "holy" and facere "to make". (Wikipedia definition; note also Strong's G37, Strong's Greek: 37. ἁγιάζω (hagiazó) -- to make holy, consecrate, sanctify).

Note there is two parts to sanctification, there is the setting apart (justification) and there is the change in our behaviour that follows from the change in our nature. Sanctification includes justification and the results of justification occurring in our lifestyle.

Justification: God's act of removing the guilt and penalty of sin while at the same time declaring a sinner righteous through Christ's atoning sacrifice. In Protestantism, righteousness from God is viewed as being credited to the sinner's account through faith alone, without works. (Wikipedia, note also Strong's definitions G1347, 1345).

Romans 7 proves this. Most of Christendom believe that the man of Romans 7 is a converted, justified Christian, but this is not the case. What Paul writes in Romans:7:19: "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." This is not a Christian experience. A Christian does not do what he does not want to do and not do what the Lord wants him to do! Paul also writes in verse 14: "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." A Christian is not carnal, neither is he sold under sin! This is the process of becoming converted that everyone must go through as they are being drawn through the convictions of the Comforter. At the end of the chapter this man cries out "Oh wretched man that I am..." It is at this point that he realizes that he cannot fix himself and the last verse tell us that he is justified at that time, Romans:7:25: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." This is the end of the process of justification , but the Christian walk of sanctification is just beginning as we shall see in Romans 8.

You are close. We are made holy, set apart, justified, made righteous, included in Christ, born again. From this place we live holy as we are made holy. I agree that Romans 7 is talking of Saul and not Paul.

This is so simple to argue against this is proof that people just want to be right and care less about the truth. Romans 8:1 is the start of the Christian walk of sanctification. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Notice the word "walk". Walking is a process. As we walk on the path of life that we create for ourselves the Comforter must show us the way. To believe that at justification everything ends totally deletes the work of the Comforter. Forensic justification is the most deadly error to deceive God's church.

Yes, we walk out our new identity.

The greatest verse that tells us of the process of sanctification is 2Corinthians:3:18: "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." We are changed into the image of Christ from "glory to glory". This denotes a process. We do not know everything at conversion. We will never know everything that is why this process of sanctification goes on forever, even though we are sanctified, past tense every step of the way, because we must be sanctified before we can do the Lord's work according to 2Timothy:2:21: "If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."

Yes, glory to glory, not sin to glory to sin glory to sin glory.

There is so much more I would really like to share with you, but if you want to sit in the forensic justification fence of des ford then there is nothing more I can say to you that will convince you which the Comforter is not already trying to convince you of now. The Christian walk is a battle, and in battle victories are won. To say that all is done when we first say a few words and "accept" Jesus is far from the Christian experience. I suggest you do some word studies on obedience, victory, overcome. To quote from a uninspired watered down SDA doctrinal "manual" instead of the bible proves your lack of desire to really break it down. Your comments are far from biblical.

We believe more similarly than you would expect. But I live holy from righteousness, I do not live holy for righteousness. My reason for not sinning is I do not want to grieve the Spirit, not because I am scared God will abandon me and refuse His justification (take back His gift). The thing you claim about me, you should also apply to yourself. There is teaching, but who am I to teach? If you do not trust me, how can I say anything you will understand?
 
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masmpg

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This means you believe Ellen White understood the Bible 100% perfectly. This is clearly false as she changed her views and encouraged others to do so. No one knows 100%. We all learn from the Holy Spirit and our learning continues (as you allude to in your first paragraph attempting to antagonize). For example, Ellen White believed the Sabbath is a New Covenant practice. The Bible teaches otherwise, "By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13). The Bible makes much more sense when we examine covenants and how they operate. Ellen White did not understand covenants. She believed every covenant was basically the same covenant revised.

When I am writing bible studies, and teaching, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit it will all coincide with the bible. I believe the same about Sister Whites writings. When anybody shares what the Lord has revealed to them from the bible they need this kind of faith that knows the Lord is leading in their studies. I do not write my opinions except when sizing up a teacher, or book or something that we must be critical of. You must do the same. To assume that you are right when sharing truth is dangerous, because as I write, and as anybody writes in this ever accountable position God does do the revealing and the sharing, because I know not what you need God does. Much of the things I write are quite amazing to me. I proof read and ask myself if I really wrote this. I will never take any credit for God's work, and every time I share God with people it is doing His work. Moses was denied the promised land because he took credit when he struck the rock and said "must 'we' fetch you water."

Do you believe our covenant today is the same as the covenant made with Moses but is now written on our hearts? There is Law written on our hearts, it is this, "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" (John 13:34). The old covenant was summed up by loving God and loving each other as we love ourselves. The new covenant is to love each other as God loves us. This is THE NEW command. Yes, Jesus gave A NEW COMMAND. It is a NEW COVENANT. It is different, it is better.

Covenants are highly overrated. Far too many will use this as an excuse to hide the fact we must be obedient, and overcome all sin in our lives TODAY. The old covenant is this, after Moses finished reading the book of the law the congregation said, Exodus:19:8: "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD." That stated the impossible. From the moment Eve bit the fruit it became impossible for man to become anything but a sinful human with sinful nature. Everyone who has and will ever die in Christ, from Adam to the last person to die in Christ will be saved by grace! To say that the "new" law of love is anything but a reminder of what God told the Israelites in the wilderness does not fit. Jesus quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." and Leviticus 19:18 "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD." when He RE-established the law of love. His whole life was an example of that love which the jews have forgotten over the generations. Love is not the new covenant. Writing the law in our hearts and in our minds instead of circumcision is the "new" covenant. BUT in reality Jesus is the "new" covenant. God gave the new covenant to Abraham on mount Moriah when he was told to sacrifice Isaac. "God will provide Himself a Lamb" is the "new" covenant.

Well, show me how it is not the Bible, because I disagree obviously.

What I keep reading from your writings does not agree with the bible, as I have been showing. You do not use the bible when you write comments. The bible is king over anything else. My opinions are not allowed here! What I read of your comments is des ford. Please do not take this as an attack. I pray earnestly over everything I write on here to be certain the bible agrees 100% with it. We all MUST do this, otherwise how are we helping anybody?

(p.s. Des loved E.G.W. and quoted from her often, but I do not defend him because I agree with him, I actually disagree with much of what he teaches, I defend because he helped me greatly and his teaching on the gospel is far better than Ellen White or the SDA church has ever understood; including you).

Ford does not love Ellen White from the little I have heard from him. The accuser of the brethren is satan. His teaching on the gospel has deceived many. You say you do not agree with him on "much"? Why is that? His teachings have changed drastically over the years as he removes himself further from Christianity altogether. No des ford has always been deceived and a deceiver, I am not accusing him, I am stating observation form what I have heard from him, and what many, who have come out from his teachings have told me. I make it my duty to steer clear of false teachers. I will not sift through miles of error to find one tiny gem of truth. Satan wants us to have 99% of the truth, but the 1%, which is the perverted doctrine of salvation has the whole Christian world upside down on this issue. That is why I am so passionate about it. I care less about most other doctrines. Ephesians 2:8-10 is the most important context in the bible and far too many rely totally on their favorite pastor's interpretation of it for their salvation. I have studied this most important doctrine all my Christian life. I have been reading the bible for over 50 years and have been studying it very critically for 30, allowing the Comforter to reveal His will for my life and ministry. We all have Spiritual gifts, and we all should be exercising them.

I use to be a Ty Gibson disciple until God showed me through a long battle with my desire to be right and what the bible teaches that we are not to follow any man. A Brother from church came to me and told me that Ty is wrong. I argued with him for quite some time, and we studied it out for close to a year, sometimes all night until the sun came up. Finally the Lord revealed to us where he is wrong and what the true gospel of righteousness by faith is.

Speak for yourself.

Here is a quote to prove it! I do not write things unless I can prove them from scripture, and to twist scripture into saying something it does not say is not my thing. Romans:3:11: "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Far too many "Christians" want to ad their two cents to God's word. God showed me early that my understanding means nothing, absolutely zero! As I read the bible I rely totally on the Comforter to guide me into all the truth He has for me at any given time. If the Christian world read, prayed about and followed the Comforters revelation of John 14-17 there would be ONE denomination today and one translation of God's word. But suffice it to say, God gave man intellect, and far too many try to ad theirs to God's holy word.

He does. He convicts the world of sin, believers of righteousness, and the devil of judgment (John 16:8-11) - verse 8 is explained afterwards, we mustn't read it in isolation.

If we take ourselves out of this equation we are denying the work of the Comforter in our lives. There is a song we use to sing a lot as my children grew up called "Jesus loves my this I know". When we get to the part that says "they" are weak, but He is strong??? I was quite amazed to hear that and always taught my children to say WE are weak and He is strong. To remove ourselves from that equation puts us on a whole separate plain. I always questioned the "leaders" in the church whom I looked up to and said "who are 'THEY'"? But nobody could answer. To try to remove ourselves from the convictions of sin that the Comforter brings to us will cause great loss of our souls. The convictions from the Comforter is all we have that gives us the voice of God to our souls. The process of sanctification is when the Comforter reveals things in our lives that we must change. He cannot reveal all of them right off the bat, that is why we are sanctified every step of the way.

I'm very sorry you feel this way. Romans 5:8-10 is just one passage that disagrees with you.

This is the crux of the biscuit! We cannot be holy while we are living in sin, in fact if we regard sin in our hearts the Lord will not even hear our prayers, Psalms:66:18: "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:" The ONLY sins that will be "covered" are CONFESSED sins! 1John 1:9. The word IF we confess means just that. IF we do not confess how can God forgive us? Here is sure proof that our sins must be removed before we receive the robe of Christ's righteousness. Zecariah:3:3&4: "Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment."

What do you mean by saying justification is a process? It seems to me you are confused just as Ellen White was confused.

No I am not the confused one. I do not write anything on here unless I have bible support for it. Jesus said John:6:44: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." There is nothing we can do to come to Christ. We submit to the working of the Comforter in all things. As we are going through the roman 7 "process" of "the good I want to do I don't do..." this is the Holy Spirit drawing us to Him. Conversion is the end of the process of wooing by the Holy Spirit, and sanctification is the process of preparing us for battle, equipping us to do the Lord's work, and we have all we need every step of the way. I remember when I first came into the truth, I was very zealous and handed out literature everywhere I went, and went out of my way to spend all my spare time doing that. As I grew in Christ I gained more knowledge to be able to answer questions and sit and study with people. This is a process, we do not receive it all at once.

Sanctification
is the act or process of acquiring sanctity, of being made or becoming holy.

I care less what uninspired dictionaries define sanctification as. I know that to be sanctified means to be holy, and sanctification means to set apart for a holy purpose. We MUST be sanctified, past tense in order to do the Lord's work. It is as simple as that. No need to get into any intellectual mind bending discussions, which most (SDA) "popular" theologians love to do in order to make us think that these topics are only meant for them to teach, not for us to really understand.

Note there is two parts to sanctification, there is the setting apart (justification) and there is the change in our behaviour that follows from the change in our nature. Sanctification includes justification and the results of justification occurring in our lifestyle.

No there are tow parts to the doctrine of salvation. Justification and sanctification. Justification is the imputed righteousness of Christ which we are given when we finally do as Paul did in Romans 7 when he said "I thank God through Jesus Christ..." The moment we are converted we are justified, sanctified, righteous, holy, sinless, perfect ETC. BUT that is only the beginning our the Christian walk of sanctification to heaven. On that walk the Comforter convicts out conscience of things we need to know, like the knowledge of God's word, or something we may not know is sin. Say Joe does not know that stealing is sin. As long as he does not know it his stealing is not a sin, but when the conviction comes to his mind he realizes he is sinning when he steals. If he stops stealing he is sanctified, if he does not, well he will be accountable to God until he does stop stealing, and God gives us plenty of time to follow our convictions.

Justification
: God's act of removing the guilt and penalty of sin while at the same time declaring a sinner righteous through Christ's atoning sacrifice. In Protestantism, righteousness from God is viewed as being credited to the sinner's account through faith alone, without works. (Wikipedia, note also Strong's definitions G1347, 1345).

We are declared "righteous" when we repent and realize that we can have Christ's righteousness when we are walking with Him through obedience. Not that obedience has any merit, but, well I like to put it this way. We are not saved by our good works, but we will certainly be lost without them. Obedience is the fruit of faith, not our access to it. Did you know that grace was given to us FOR OBEDIENCE? Romans 1:5. Grace is the power that we need in order to obey.


We believe more similarly than you would expect. But I live holy from righteousness, I do not live holy for righteousness. My reason for not sinning is I do not want to grieve the Spirit, not because I am scared God will abandon me and refuse His justification (take back His gift). The thing you claim about me, you should also apply to yourself. There is teaching, but who am I to teach? If you do not trust me, how can I say anything you will understand?

I live Christ's righteousness every day. I have absolutely nothing to give. I am the lowest of the low. I lay my life on the alter every day. I am more critical of myself over anybody. We do believe very similarly, but you must realize that we will not enter heaven with one unconfessed sin in our lives. I ask everyone this one question, which many are very relieved when they realize the power of God to forgive AND to give us victory over every temptation. When you get on your knees and ask God to forgive your sins how many are left? When you get up off your knees the power of grace to overcome will keep you from falling and give you victory after victory so that we are overcomers in Christ. How can anybody who believes they do not have to stop sinning ever expect to have ANY victory, or to be overcomers? If we are not overcomers we will not receive of the tree of life,
 
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YouAreAwesome

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When I am writing bible studies, and teaching, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit it will all coincide with the bible.

Do you believe it is possible for two men to work under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Bible yet come to different conclusions?

I believe the same about Sister Whites writings. When anybody shares what the Lord has revealed to them from the bible they need this kind of faith that knows the Lord is leading in their studies.

Indeed, but let's not confuse the Lord leading with absolute knowledge. He leads us into Himself. His work in us is a spiritual work.

I do not write my opinions

Presumption. You do write your own opinions. The Holy Spirit will not change our minds, we make that leap ourselves.

To assume that you are right when sharing truth is dangerous, because as I write, and as anybody writes in this ever accountable position God does do the revealing and the sharing, because I know not what you need God does. Much of the things I write are quite amazing to me. I proof read and ask myself if I really wrote this. I will never take any credit for God's work, and every time I share God with people it is doing His work. Moses was denied the promised land because he took credit when he struck the rock and said "must 'we' fetch you water."

Listening is important, agree.

Covenants are highly overrated.

Very much disagree. The Bible can only be understood through the understanding of what covenant the people are in. For example, there was no "wrath" from God until the Mosaic Covenant. The flood was not of wrath but sadness. Wrath only came with the requirements of the covenant. God was in fact veiled by the Mosaic covenant (2 Corinthians 3). His true nature is found in Jesus (Colossians 1) Who brought in the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:9). Ellen White did not understand this extremely significant shift in thinking, and it causes problems throughout every single thing she writes.

the fact we must be obedient

The word "Obedience" paints God as a vicious authoritarian waiting to pounce on our mistakes. Obedience is the natural overflow of a loving heart. We receive His love, rejoice in thankfulness, and walk in His Presence. This is obedience. IT IS NOT A MUST, it is the supernatural outcome of a born again heart.

and overcome all sin in our lives TODAY

Do you have sin in your life? I would hope the answer is no. I know I don't. I have RIGHTEOUSNESS in my life. He is my life and He is the righteousness within me (2 Corinthians 5:21). Do you think I'm hiding behind His righteousness while living in sin? Of course not. I'm living in His righteousness and living in life (Ephesians 2:5). I live in the Spirit every moment (Galatians 5:25). I do not walk in the flesh because my flesh was removed when I was saved, it was cut off, "In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ" (Colossians 2:11).

You talk of this as though it is a day by day process. It is not. It is done. We have already been set apart and made righteous (Ephesians 2:8). Sanctification is a place we live from not a destination. This is crucial to the gospel. The problem for you is, Adventist theology is all tied into one big knot. If you give up one piece of the puzzle, then other parts must be lost also. It is a tough process to unlearn all that one learns, especially at your age. Much easier for a young person. But crucial is that Jesus did it all with regard to our salvation, we don't take the credit, we simply receive.

Exodus:19:8: "And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD." That stated the impossible.

Phillipians 3:6; John 1:47; 1 Kings 14:8.

Maybe I'll leave it here because the length of these posts is becoming a bit overwhelming :)
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I do not walk in the flesh because my flesh was removed when I was saved, it was cut off, "In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ" (Colossians 2:11).

You talk of this as though it is a day by day process. It is not. It is done. We have already been set apart and made righteous (Ephesians 2:8). Sanctification is a place we live from not a destination.

Do you not fall victim to temptation and have impure thoughts? Angry thoughts? Selfish thoughts? Focus on something more than on God? When you do, do you repent and ask God for forgiveness?

What did Paul mean when he wrote these words? Was he unconcerned with temptation and sin in his life?

Romans 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin
 
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masmpg

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Do you believe it is possible for two men to work under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Bible yet come to different conclusions?

This is the last time. You have no biblical support for your opinions. I quote verses and you leave out the verses in your comments and make it sound like it is an opinion when it is a bible quote. Here is a bible quote for this opinion of yours. NO if two were studying and praying and allowing the Holy Spirit to lead there would be NO division. That is what the Holy Spirit does. You seem to think that the church should be comprised of all diverse sorts of winds of doctrine because it agrees with some opinion. I do not do opinions no matter how you edit my posts to make it look like I do. I do not say this, the bible states this fact; 1Corinthians:1:10: "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." To deny this is totally denying the power of the Comforter to organize His church.

[QUOPTE]Presumption. You do write your own opinions. The Holy Spirit will not change our minds, we make that leap ourselves.[/QUOTE]

And here you accuse me of being works oriented??? My understanding has nothing to do with what the Comforter reveals to me as I read God's holy word the KJV bible. Here is a verse for that; 1John:2:27: "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." I rely wholly on the Comforter as I read His word. Should I get into where Paul said the wisdom of this world is foolishness...

The word "Obedience" paints God as a vicious authoritarian waiting to pounce on our mistakes. Obedience is the natural overflow of a loving heart. We receive His love, rejoice in thankfulness, and walk in His Presence. This is obedience. IT IS NOT A MUST, it is the supernatural outcome of a born again heart.

Here is another verse that says obedience is NECESSARY!
1Corinthians:6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co:6:10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." If we do not obey, and we do these things we will not inherit the kingdom of God! I do not say these things the bible does.

Do you have sin in your life? I would hope the answer is no. I know I don't. I have RIGHTEOUSNESS in my life. He is my life and He is the righteousness within me (2 Corinthians 5:21). Do you think I'm hiding behind His righteousness while living in sin? Of course not. I'm living in His righteousness and living in life (Ephesians 2:5).

So you will profess that you will never stop sinning, yet you are righteous? That does not compute. You cannot sin and be righteous at the same time.

You talk of this as though it is a day by day process. It is not. It is done. We have already been set apart and made righteous (Ephesians 2:8). Sanctification is a place we live from not a destination.

So you believe in once saved always saved? This is not a biblical doctrine no matter how ford explains it.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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You do not know what I believe and your arguments are attacking a straw man (a belief system I do not hold).

Now seeing as you seem to think I am not addressing the bible verse you quote I will only reply to those instead.

1Corinthians:1:10: "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Your view on this verse makes zero sense unless you really do believe you are the only one who knows the truth about every single detail in the bible. You don't.

All speak the same thing means for all to lift up the finished work of Jesus (the gospel). While no divisions among you means to love each other and remain in good relationship with all. Perfectly joined together in the same mind means working together to achieve a common goal; in the same judgment means to work together to judge sin as sin, to judge law as law, to judge righteousness as righteousness etc. It does not mean to believe the same thing about some arbitrary doctrine.

1John:2:27: "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

We have the anointing of the Holy Spirit abiding in us that teaches us what is important, the real truth, abiding in Jesus. No one can teach us about His abiding Presence in us because we have it.

Now if you are going to turn this verse into "don't teach each other" then why would Paul say "And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers" (1 Corinthians 12:28)? What about Romans 12:7 "...if it is teaching, then teach"?

Teaching is still as important in the church today as it has ever been. Otherwise why would you write bible studies? The anointing teaches us of spiritual realities. We still need to work together to grow in understanding of the bible and doctrinal truths.

1Corinthians:6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co:6:10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

The righteous are those in Christ (Romans 3:22). The unrighteous include all others.

So you will profess that you will never stop sinning, yet you are righteous?

No. I stopped sinning because I am righteous. What sin would you expect that I continue in? I am not in the old nature, it was removed, I'm in the new spiritual nature of God and live in Him. People have turned sin into this overarching impossible demon that we can never be free of. Sin is simply going against our conscience and grieving the Holy Spirit, this includes thoughts and actions. When we know God we find His burden light and His yoke easy. He is peaceful and comforting. He doesn't lead us into temptation. He delivers us from evil.

From I can gather from your posts, you also believe the Romans 7 man is Saul yes? We agree here. But I think you believe righteousness is something that needs to be worked for yes? I say this because of the OP where it says "In order that we have the righteousness of Christ, we need daily to be transformed by the influence of the Spirit, to be a partaker of the divine nature." This is wrong. Flat out wrong. Righteousness is not dependent on our works because Jesus' work was enough. We do not want to become like Uzzah attempting to help God when He has told us not to (Romans 4:4-5).

Ellen has it the wrong way around. It should read, "In order to be transformed by the renewing of the mind, we need to be made righteous". Not, "in order to be made righteous we need to be daily transformed".

So you believe in once saved always saved?

No.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Do you not fall victim to temptation and have impure thoughts? Angry thoughts? Selfish thoughts? Focus on something more than on God? When you do, do you repent and ask God for forgiveness?

We all do at some point or another before we are saved and after. I am not saying we are not capable of sinning. I am just saying, right now, in this moment, I am not living in sin. I am willing to be corrected by the Holy Spirit, but I find the Holy Spirit to be very loving and convicts me of the righteousness He is within me, He's not the accuser of the brethren.

If I do sin, I have a an advocate or representative with the Father Who is the atoning sacrifice (1 John 1:21-22). I do not dwell there in guilt and condemnation crying "woe is me" (Romans 8:1). I praise God for His victory over sin and that my actions or thoughts were not indicative of who I am but I praise Him that He has made me righteous and a temple for Him to dwell in (1 Corinthians 6:19). If I am concerned I will continue in a particular sin habitually, I tell someone about it and have it dealt with. This is the most peaceful place to live, in Christ with no sin.

What did Paul mean when he wrote these words? Was he unconcerned with temptation and sin in his life?

Yes, Romans 7:14-25 appears at first to show that Paul still struggled with sin but look at how it contrasts with Romans 6:

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2).

"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin" (Romans 6:6)

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness..." (Romans 6:13)

etc.

Romans 7 would be flat out hypocritical to that which he wrote only a few paragraphs earlier. This is because Paul is talking of his pre-christian Jewish experience. He kept the law perfectly as a Jew, but still felt worldly evil desires and sin within him that he struggled with. But after receiving Jesus it all changed, "Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 7:24-25). To help these things make sense we must realise Paul is equating living under the old covenant as living in the flesh and living in the new covenant as living in the Spirit.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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We all do at some point or another before we are saved and after. I am not saying we are not capable of sinning. I am just saying, right now, in this moment, I am not living in sin. I am willing to be corrected by the Holy Spirit, but I find the Holy Spirit to be very loving and convicts me of the righteousness He is within me, He's not the accuser of the brethren.

If I do sin, I have a an advocate or representative with the Father Who is the atoning sacrifice (1 John 1:21-22). I do not dwell there in guilt and condemnation crying "woe is me" (Romans 8:1). I praise God for His victory over sin and that my actions or thoughts were not indicative of who I am but I praise Him that He has made me righteous and a temple for Him to dwell in (1 Corinthians 6:19). If I am concerned I will continue in a particular sin habitually, I tell someone about it and have it dealt with. This is the most peaceful place to live, in Christ with no sin.

Thanx for clarifying your beliefs... exactly how Adventists understand sanctification, the road to victory... to overcome. Not in our strength but through our submission.



Yes, Romans 7:14-25 appears at first to show that Paul still struggled with sin but look at how it contrasts with Romans 6:

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2).

"We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin" (Romans 6:6)

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions." (Romans 6:12)

"Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness..." (Romans 6:13)

etc.

Romans 7 would be flat out hypocritical to that which he wrote only a few paragraphs earlier. This is because Paul is talking of his pre-christian Jewish experience. He kept the law perfectly as a Jew, but still felt worldly evil desires and sin within him that he struggled with. But after receiving Jesus it all changed, "Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 7:24-25). To help these things make sense we must realise Paul is equating living under the old covenant as living in the flesh and living in the new covenant as living in the Spirit.
On this point we will have to agree to disagree...
 
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masmpg

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You do not know what I believe and your arguments are attacking a straw man (a belief system I do not hold).

I know that I am saved by grace through faith. I know that when I ask God for the Holy Spirit He will very willingly give it to me. I know that when I write these comments, I pray about them, and ask God for the Holy Spirit to help me so my words do not get intertwined with His. I know that my faith is strong enough to know, not just lip service believe with the mouth which is so prevalent today. I know by faith that the ONLY way to make my faith greater is by reading the word of God. You have already told me that you rely on your own wisdom to understand God's word. I do not. That is what is meant by not letting any man teach us. Teachers are right and good as far as they reveal what the Lord has revealed to them. Paul commended the bereans for studying out everything Paul says to make certain it is true. We are to have the same mind and teach the same things. If you want to believe that we can have a bunch of differing doctrines and everyone teaching something foreign that is up to you. But I know what the bible says, and I have the faith to know that when the Holy Spirit leads people they will all be in unity of the faith. There are some doctrinal issues that have no bearing on this principle, but when it comes to salvation all those who are led of the Holy Spirit will know the truth and not say one day that we will never stop sinning and the next that we have no sin... My teaching is consistent with what the bible teaches no matter how people might interpret it personally.

All I do is share the truth the Lord has shown me through much prayer fasting and revelation from the Comforter. I have noticed a change in what you have been saying since I have been sharing with you. I do not take credit for anything that belongs to God, but stop arguing against things that you agree on. It is much easier to pray about studying instead of stand against everything to the point of complete denial. I desire truth, and knowledge of God through a bible study where people share without reservation, and without getting in such a hurry to comment that it becomes more opinionated then Spirit led. I have witnessed many come to Christ, even those who thought they were in Christ and it is a great joy, but when it turns into picking apart truth to show how smart we are, then later bring out truths learned from the study as if they are nothing new??? I see this far too often, in fact it comes down to casting our pearls before swine after a time, and we must dust off our feet and move on.

We could have great studies on here but you seem to want to pick apart everything I write instead of encouraging and sharing. The great problem in the church today is a huge lack of faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.

God bless your efforts as you study.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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You have already told me that you rely on your own wisdom to understand God's word. I do not.

Hahahaha ok.

There are some doctrinal issues that have no bearing on this principle

??? This is exactly my point...

not say one day that we will never stop sinning and the next that we have no sin

? Look. Did Adam and Eve have a sinful nature? No. Did they sin? Yes. Why? Temptation and disobedience to God. We, however, have the new nature, superior to Adam and Eve. But we are still tempted and have the capacity to be disobedient to God's commands (Spiritual commands, not external law). In the new nature, we do not fall like Adam and Eve when we sin, we cause grief to the Spirit. I don't know if I will sin again, I hope I won't, but I don't focus on these things, I focus on worshiping Jesus. I have no sin, but I don't know if I will sin again. There is no contradiction here, you simply don't understand these things, that's all.

My teaching is consistent with what the bible teaches no matter how people might interpret it personally

Same.

All I do is share the truth the Lord has shown me through much prayer fasting and revelation from the Comforter

Same.

stop arguing against things that you agree on

We each agree that the other argues against things we agree on :) Heh.

I have noticed a change in what you have been saying since I have been sharing with you

Perhaps, in that you have come to understand what I am saying a little clearer, and I am always willing to change. Are you?
 
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