Righteousness by Faith

[masmpg]

? Look. Did Adam and Eve have a sinful nature? No. Did they sin? Yes. Why? Temptation and disobedience to God. We, however, have the new nature, superior to Adam and Eve. But we are still tempted and have the capacity to be disobedient to God's commands (Spiritual commands, not external law). In the new nature, we do not fall like Adam and Eve when we sin, we cause grief to the Spirit. I don't know if I will sin again, I hope I won't, but I don't focus on these things, I focus on worshiping Jesus. I have no sin, but I don't know if I will sin again. There is no contradiction here, you simply don't understand these things, that's all.

Okay, Please show me this from the bible.

Everyone who has ever died in Christ will be saved by grace. From Adam to the last Christian to die we are all saved by grace, there is no difference.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Okay, Please show me this from the bible.

Everyone who has ever died in Christ will be saved by grace. From Adam to the last Christian to die we are all saved by grace, there is no difference.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:45)

The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:47-49)

Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:12-21)

These verses clarify my original point; that we don't need a sinful nature to sin (Adam and Eve sinned without a sinful nature), but we do not have the nature of the first Adam, but the second Adam, Who is a life-giving Spirit.

I have no idea why you say "Everyone who has ever died in Christ will be saved by grace. From Adam to the last Christian to die we are all saved by grace, there is no difference" as though I don't already believe this???? It's as though I write something, and you read something completely different. Very strange...

 

[Shibolet]

Here is a very important bible truth that those who say we will never stop sinning, which is the anti righteousness by faith message, completely overlook. As I was doing my devotion the other day the Lord revealed this awesome truth. I wasn't even studying about this.

We read in 1Timothy:1:9: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," What many believe and teach is that we will never stop sinning and that the law has nothing to do with their lives after they "accept Jesus as their Saviour". What this verse is saying is that the law was given for SINNERS. If we will never stop sinning we will always be under the law and not under grace. The law has nothing to do with the righteous person because they are not sinning, and they believe that IF they do ever sin again that Jesus will forgive all our unrighteousness IF we ask. I will take this a step further by saying that only those who are breaking a law are "under that law".

Is there one so righteous that he or she does not need the Law? Is there any one upon earth who does only good and never sin? The answer is NO if you read Ecclesiastes 7:20. "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." And that, if you can take it, included Jesus too who was a man upon earth for 33 years of his short life. It means that we are all under the Law whether we like that condition or not. If you ask me, we must be pleased to God for having given us His Law as a result of His grace; otherwise, we would never be able to live in society but under the law of the jungle, although no one knows for how long we could live that way.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

And that, if you can take it, included Jesus too who was a man upon earth for 33 years of his short life.

Blasphemous statement friend.... I realize you are Jewish and don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah but you should respect that you are posting in a forum that does believe Jesus was the Son of God.

Here's a passage of scripture that rebukes your statement...

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

 

[Shibolet]

Blasphemous statement friend.... I realize you are Jewish and don't recognize Jesus as the Messiah but you should respect that you are posting in a forum that does believe Jesus was the Son of God.

Here's a passage of scripture that rebukes your statement...

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

I also believe Jesus was the son of God. He was a Jew, wasn't he? When HaShem declared, "Israel is My Son," of course, Jesus was included. (Exodus 4:22,23) How do you feel now after charging me with blasphemy? But I am forgiving. You don't have to worry that the Lord will curse those who curse Israel. (Numbers 24:5,9)

Jesus could not have been a High Priest. Only from the Levites a Priest was anointed a High Priest. Perhaps Paul did not know this when he wrote the epistle to the Hebrews.

Now, with regards to being without sin, open your NT on Mat. 23:13-33 and tell me how could Jesus have been without sin if he, only in that text broke the Golden Rule 15 times? The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue which constitutes a serious transgression of the Law. Then, I didn't have to reveal the secret of the Golden Rule. Ecclesiastes 7:20 says that, "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Do you think the Kohelet was lying?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Ecclesiastes 7:20 says that, "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Do you think the Kohelet was lying?

You do notice the word "has" in that passage? It doesn't say there never would be.... Christ had not come yet.

You seem to cherry pick what you like from the NT and disregard anything that conflicts with your erroneous claim that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was not the only begotten Son of God. Jesus said whoever denies Him (His Deity) denies the Father.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Jesus could not have been a High Priest. Only from the Levites a Priest was anointed a High Priest. Perhaps Paul did not know this when he wrote the epistle to the Hebrews.

Jesus was a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Shibolet]

Jesus was a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Probably, you do not know who was Melchizedek. If you did, you would never connect him with Jesus . Melchizedek was a pagan king among the Canaanites and a priest who would offer the firstborn children of the Canaanites to Baal Molech on the fire.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Probably, you do not know who was Melchizedek. If you did, you would never connect him with Jesus . Melchizedek was a pagan king among the Canaanites and a priest who would offer the firstborn children of the Canaanites to Baal Molech on the fire.

No. The male head of the household was considered the priest of that household. For Abram to tithe to Melchizedek implies they were related and that Melchizedek was the patriarch of the family. It is true they lived in a world full of pagan gods but Melchizedek served the same God as Abram. Some scholars believe Melchizedek was Shem, son of Noah (Kinship by Covenant, p132).

Whatever the case, the most quoted Psalm in the New Testament is Psalm 110:4 "The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."" The priesthood of Melchizedek predated and superseded the Levitical priesthood. Jesus was a High Priest in the better order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7).

 

[Shibolet]

No. The male head of the household was considered the priest of that household. For Abram to tithe to Melchizedek implies they were related and that Melchizedek was the patriarch of the family. It is true they lived in a world full of pagan gods but Melchizedek served the same God as Abram. Some scholars believe Melchizedek was Shem, son of Noah (Kinship by Covenant, p132).

Whatever the case, the most quoted Psalm in the New Testament is Psalm 110:4 "The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."" The priesthood of Melchizedek predated and superseded the Levitical priesthood. Jesus was a High Priest in the better order of Melchizedek (Hebrews 7).

What a delusion! Nothing in this post is true; no offense meant. Abraham did not tithe Melchizedek; he paid for the bread and the wine given to his soldiers with a random portion of his loot which just coincided to be 10%. The tithe in Israel originated with the dream of Jacob's promise that he would from that time on, tithe HaShem in every thing. (Gensis 28:22) Melchizedek implied nothing; you are the one adding your own assumptions into the text. The god Melchizedek served was called Baal Molech.

Psalm 110:4 according to the true Jewish translation of this Jewish text in the Jewish Scriptures, it was written thus: "The Lord has sworn and will not relent, "You are a priest forever, a rightful king by My decree." It means that David was a priest forever by "My decree" which means not after the order of Melchizedek but after the Word of HaShem Himself. Why God's decree and not after the order of Aaron? Because David was not a Levite. Now, it is not hard at all to know why the KJV forged the text to interpolate Melchizedek into it; because they needed to enhance Paul's word with credibility from the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

What a delusion! Nothing in this post is true; no offense meant. Abraham did not tithe Melchizedek; he paid for the bread and the wine given to his soldiers with a random portion of his loot which just coincided to be 10%. The tithe in Israel originated with the dream of Jacob's promise that he would from that time on, tithe HaShem in every thing. (Gensis 28:22) Melchizedek implied nothing; you are the one adding your own assumptions into the text. The god Melchizedek served was called Baal Molech.

Psalm 110:4 according to the true Jewish translation of this Jewish text in the Jewish Scriptures, it was written thus: "The Lord has sworn and will not relent, "You are a priest forever, a rightful king by My decree." It means that David was a priest forever by "My decree" which means not after the order of Melchizedek but after the Word of HaShem Himself. Why God's decree and not after the order of Aaron? Because David was not a Levite. Now, it is not hard at all to know why the KJV forged the text to interpolate Melchizedek into it; because they needed to enhance Paul's word with credibility from the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach.

There is much disagreement about Melchizedek, it is true. However, it is the same word in Psalm 110:4 and Genesis 14:18 regarding Melchizedek, so removing Melchizedek from the Psalm makes little sense. Please note that this has nothing to do with King James translators, I'm not sure where you got that from? You can find these things in the dead sea scrolls irrespective of anything to do with the KJV bible at all.

But anyway, we are derailing the thread. This thread is about righteousness by faith, not about the identity of Melchizedek; in this thread you must agree with the book of Hebrews in the New Testament and agree that Melchizedek was a High Priest to God; that Jesus is High Priest in the same order.

 

[masmpg]

Is there one so righteous that he or she does not need the Law? Is there any one upon earth who does only good and never sin? The answer is NO if you read Ecclesiastes 7:20. "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." And that, if you can take it, included Jesus too who was a man upon earth for 33 years of his short life. It means that we are all under the Law whether we like that condition or not. If you ask me, we must be pleased to God for having given us His Law as a result of His grace; otherwise, we would never be able to live in society but under the law of the jungle, although no one knows for how long we could live that way.

I barely know where to begin here. The quote you use here is part of the argument by many that say we can not stop sinning. And the main context from those who say the bible contradicts itself.

Here is what Paul says about what Solomon wrote in Ecc. We read in Romans:3:10: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" here is what God told Isaiah about this statement
Isaiah:64:6: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." Now lets break it down according to the bible. John tells us in 1John:3:7: "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." Notice how John wrote "let no man deceive you". He knew there would be much deception on this point of doctrine. If there are none righteousness then this statement is meaningless, but we need to understand who is involved with both of these statements. According to Isaiah our own selfish "righteousness" is as filthy rags. There will be no self righteousness in the kingdom of heaven. Lets look at how Paul separates these "righteounsesses" in 1Corinthians:6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," Notice again that Paul wrote "be not deceived". This doctrine is the most attacked doctrine there is by satan. Satan wants us to have 99% of the truth, but this, most important doctrine of salvation is so perverted that most of Christendom have it wrong. Paul wrote that the "unrighteous" SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Does this mean that nobody will go to heaven? If, like you believe that there are none righteous then who will go to heaven?

Here is the answer, and it is so simple, but far too many have preconceived ideas which have been pounded into our heads by church. Paul wrote in Galatians:2:20: "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." According to John in 1John:3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." When we are crucified with Christ and allow His righteousness to dwell in us we cannot sin. It is impossible to sin because His seed dwells in us. His righteousness will not cover one unconfessed sin. We must listen to the Comforter showing us our besetting sins so we can know what they are and confess them as He shows them to us. It is not a sin to be tempted. Jesus was tempted in all points like us but He never sinned. Hebrews:4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." The gospel is about being saved by grace THROUGH faith. Our faith must grab hold of God's grace, which through the cross is the power of God. We must know by faith that we are not only forgiven for our sins and cleansed from all unrighteousness when we ask, but also we, through faith must know that God will give us the power of grace to overcome all temptation in our lives like Jesus, our only example did. 1Peter:2:21&22: "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" We must have this experience.

BTW, to be living under the law means to be breaking it, NOT obeying it. Here is a hypothetical situation. If I were driving the speed limit does that law have any bearing on me? NO! If I were speeding, and got pulled over that law has given the judge power over me to condemn me to the fullest extent of the law, or to give grace and pardon me. This is what Jesus did, He freely pardoned mankind, but what did that do to the law? Can I go out and speed because I broke the law and it is miraculously done away with because the judge gave me grace?

 

[Shibolet]

I barely know where to begin here. The quote you use here is part of the argument by many that say we can not stop sinning. And the main context from those who say the bible contradicts itself.

No one can say he has stopped sinning. Now, to serve sin in his flesh as Paul
said he could not avoid, that's where the problem resides. (Rom. 7:25)

Paul wrote that the "unrighteous" SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Does this mean that nobody will go to heaven? If, like you believe that there are none righteous then who will go to heaven?

What is in your opinion the Kingdom of Heaven, a place to go to? That's where all Christians get stuck for not knowing even their own NT. Jesus himself said that the Kingdom of God is "among yourselves". (Luke 17:21) Instead of dreaming to get into the Kingdom of Heaven, we should rather allow the Kingdom of Heaven to get into ourselves. He implied to say that the Kingdom of Heaven is a peaceful state of mind available to us to accept.

According to John in 1John:3:9: "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

There is no such a condition. There has never been a man upon earth who has done only good and never sinned.(Ecclesiastes 7:20)

Jesus was tempted in all points like us but He never sinned. follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:" We Hebrews:4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

Jesus was not without sin. If you read Mat. 23:13-33, Jesus broke the Golden
Rule 15 times only in that text. The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there!

Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should must have this experience.

If you read Jeremiah 31:30 and Ezekiel 18:3,20, no one can suffer or die for the sins of another. So, Jesus did not die for us but because his disciples were acclaiming him king of the Jews in a Roman province which was Jerusalem at the time. That's why Jesus was crucified; on a charge of insurrection. Hence, his verdict nailed on the top of his cross by orders of Pilate. INRI.

This is what Jesus did, He freely pardoned mankind, but what did that do to the law? Can I go out and speed because I broke the law and it is miraculously done away with because the judge gave me grace?

Your reasoning is not logical. The Law could have never been done away with no matter what. Jesus himself said that the Law is to remain till heaven and earth passed away. (Mat. 5:17-19) So, in the meantime, he said, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[Shibolet]

There is much disagreement about Melchizedek, it is true. However, it is the same word in Psalm 110:4 and Genesis 14:18 regarding Melchizedek, so removing Melchizedek from the Psalm makes little sense. Please note that this has nothing to do with King James translators, I'm not sure where you got that from? You can find these things in the dead sea scrolls irrespective of anything to do with the KJV bible at all.

But anyway, we are derailing the thread. This thread is about righteousness by faith, not about the identity of Melchizedek; in this thread you must agree with the book of Hebrews in the New Testament and agree that Melchizedek was a High Priest to God; that Jesus is High Priest in the same order.

 

[YouAreAwesome]

What is in your opinion the Kingdom of Heaven, a place to go to? That's where all Christians get stuck for not knowing even their own NT. Jesus himself said that the Kingdom of God is "among yourselves". (Luke 17:21) Instead of dreaming to get into the Kingdom of Heaven, we should rather allow the Kingdom of Heaven to get into ourselves. He implied to say that the Kingdom of Heaven is a peaceful state of mind available to us to accept.

Very good! A peaceful state of mind is the fruit of the Kingdom. The Kingdom is the Kings Domain. He resides inside of us for we are His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16); His kingdom within us (Luke 17:21). His spiritual Kingdom must increase over the whole world and remove the spiritual dominion of the devil.

If you read Jeremiah 31:30 and Ezekiel 18:3,20, no one can suffer or die for the sins of another. So, Jesus did not die for us but because his disciples were acclaiming him king of the Jews in a Roman province which was Jerusalem at the time. That's why Jesus was crucified; on a charge of insurrection. Hence, his verdict nailed on the top of his cross by orders of Pilate. INRI.

John 10:18 shows us Jesus willingly laid His own life down. It was not taken from Him. It doesn't matter what the reason the Romans thought they were killing Him for, that reason is inconsequential.

Jesus himself said that the Law is to remain till heaven and earth passed away. (Mat. 5:17-19)

Matthew 24:34-35 "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Jesus explains how heaven and earth (an ancient name for the temple) will pass away before the current generation passes away. And it did, in AD 70.

 

[Shibolet]

Very good! A peaceful state of mind is the fruit of the Kingdom. The Kingdom is the Kings Domain. He resides inside of us for we are His temple (1 Corinthians 3:16); His kingdom within us (Luke 17:21). His spiritual Kingdom must increase over the whole world and remove the spiritual dominion of the devil.

The Devil has dominion over nothing because, the Devil exists only as a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man. So, the spiritual dominion of the Devil is only a facsimile to the spiritual dominion of man.

John 10:18 shows us Jesus willingly laid His own life down. It was not taken from Him. It doesn't matter what the reason the Romans thought they were killing Him for, that reason is inconsequential.

If Jesus was willing to lay his own life down, why would he pray trice in the Gethsemane to escape the perspective to walk the "Via Dolorosa?" This means that he was not willing at all to die on the cross for us. So, he was rather forced unto the cross against his will. Evidence! "Let Thy will be done not mine." Not mine, he said. So, what was his will? Entirely the opposite. His will wanted to live. He was too young to die so stupidly.

Matthew 24:34-35 "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Jesus' word in Mat. 5:17-19 was rather about the Law that would remain forever until heaven and earth passed away.

Jesus explains how heaven and earth (an ancient name for the temple) will pass away before the current generation passes away. And it did, in AD 70.

Heaven and earth is a reference to the Universe. So, the Law would cease to exist only after the Universe passed away. In the meantime, as he said, "We must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[robert skynner]

In order to meet the requirements of the law, our faith must grasp the righteousness of Christ, accepting it as our righteousness. Through union with Christ, through acceptance of His righteousness by faith, we may be qualified to work the works of God, to be colaborers with Christ. If you are willing to drift along with the current of evil, and do not cooperate with the heavenly agencies in restraining transgression in your family, and in the church, in order that everlasting righteousness may be brought in, you do not have faith. Faith works by love and purifies the soul. Through faith the Holy Spirit works in the heart to create holiness therein; but this cannot be done unless the human agent will work with Christ. We can be fitted for heaven only through the work of the Holy Spirit upon the heart; for we must have Christ’s righteousness as our credentials if we would find access to the Father. In order that we may have the righteousness of Christ, we need daily to be transformed by the influence of the Spirit, to be a partaker of the divine nature. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to elevate the taste, to sanctify the heart, to ennoble the whole man. { 1SM 374.1}

Righteousness by faith has not been accepted by God's church even to this day. If it was accepted Jesus would have come by now. This doctrine is the most important doctrine there is. It involves the very definition of what it means to be perfect, sanctified, and justified. When we accept Christs righteousness as our own it means we are living His perfection. This is the very principle that was rejected in 1888 when two young men AT Jones and EJ Wagoner stood against the "pillars" of the Seventh day Adventist church just to be shunned, mocked and flat out made fun of. The church today is no closer then they were back then. Very few even know what it means to be perfect, justified, or sanctified. Most of those who teach righteousness by faith are either disfellowshiped, or not allowed to preach in the church. I can name all the popular teachers who actually do teach it. I am not saying that being popular has anything to do with who we listen to, quite contrary is the fact that most bible characters were very lowly, and unpopular. Look at the disciples. Jesus would not go to the proud pharisees to promote the gospel because He knew they knew all they want to know, just like the pharisees of today. Jesus uses lowly folks who are eager to learn the new truths from the old book that the Holy Spirit reveals to them to share. To many this doctrine of righteousness by faith is new mostly because it is not being yelled from the rooftops for the simple fact that it is much more pleasing to the carnal nature to teach that we will never stop sinning this side of heaven, which allows for excuses for sinning. Nowhere in the bible nor the SOP are we told that we cannot stop sinning, nor are we told that we will always sin. The bible is full of action, action that leads to victory over all sin in our lives if we have the faith, which is meant by "righteousness by faith". We must have the faith that knows that we are living His righteousness.

As I understand Protestant theology, mere men cannot fully keep any covenants, and certainly not any covenant made with God! Nobody except for Christ can and did fully keep a covenant with God. That's the whole point of the new covenant: God the Father makes a covenant with his Son, mediated through the Holy Spirit, which then secures the salvation of his people. The Old Covenant which was made between God and man, with conditions upon both parties to fully keep their agreed parts of this covenant, but the Hebrews always broke their side of it, thereby making it invalid.


But Christ came, he was fully God and full man, and so as a man he kept God's law, thereby making the New Covenant with God the Father through his own complete obedience, which then fully and completely justifies his people (i.e. both a legal forensic act declaring not guilty as well as an act of imputation of Christ's righteousness). That being so, as I understand Protestant theology, it's obvious to me that the Seventh Day Adventists (SDA) are actually rejecting the new covenant, by their going back to an old covenant model of .... "I'm going to work very hard and thereby earn a ticket to heaven, through my own good works and righteous deeds, establishing my own righteousness." Consider just two points, Tithing and the Sabbath.



But by claiming that tithing is for new Covenant Christians today, the SDA are inadvertently mixing the covenants and thereby putting people back under an old covenant system of good works and earning righteousness by your own law keeping. Secondly, doesn’t the Bible teach that the Sabbath is now fulfilled in Christ? The word Sabbath means “rest,” consider Exodus (20:10-11) where God rested on the seventh day, but now that rest is an eternal rest in Christ: “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28). Can't you see that the SDA, by mixing of the covenants, thereby rejects Christ's work on the cross as well as his (New) Covenant with the Father, mediated though the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:13-15)? Look I'm not a church person, I happen to reject religion, but even I can see, and even a blind man can see that the SDA faith, is simply a plain and straightforward rejection of Christ’s covenant with the Father which is called the New Covenant.

 

[robert skynner]

I would like to share a very obvious biblical contradiction which many are not even aware of. Many want to use this verse that Paul wrote in Romans:3:10: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" to prove to people that nobody can be righteous, not just declared righteous (Justified) but be righteous (sanctified). What Paul writes is mostly about justification, which means to make be declared righteous. We are justified freely when we do what Peter tells us to DO in Acts:2:38: "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." and in Acts:3:19: "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;". Contrary to what MOST of Christendom believe and teach, that we have nothing to do to "inherit" eternal life, what Peter wrote here says quite the opposite. The new testament, which many professors of Christianity will only use for their guide to salvation, is full of action. Words like repent, be baptized, be converted, blot out your sins. . . These four acts are HUGE! It would be a huge blessing for everyone to define all these terms. What does it mean to repent? Does this act precede baptism, or did Peter put this in random order?

The study of salvation should be the life of all churches. This is by far the most important study for Christians and MOST have it wrong. Even Seventh day Adventists.

Ephesians 2:8-10 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." is the most important context in the whole bible, and most skim over it and leave it to their pastor to interpret to them. We should study this out as if our lives depended on it, and our spiritual life does depend on our correct understanding of this doctrine. Here are some questions to ask yourself as you search God's word for answers; What is grace, how do we get it, what is it for, what does it do for us? the answer to these questions can be found in the bible.

Most Christians do not even know what Paul wrote about grace in Romans:1:5: "By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:". Do you know why grace was given??? Do you believe that grace was given FOR OBEDIENCE? Do you know how that works? If we study this out, like every Christian should do, in fact it should be our life study to make certain that we know what this means, it is a matter of spiritual life and spiritual death. Most, yea the majority which Jesus talks about when He states that many shall follow the broad road and few will enter the straight gate. That is the difference between the majority and the minority. Most Christians will say I am saved by grace I don't have to obey. I have been in every mainstream denomination in my quest for truth, and many of them, whole denominations teach that obedience is not necessary for salvation. I would not want to be in their shoes on judgment day, yet I always reach out to everyone struggling to find Jesus.

Grace was given for obedience, how does that work? When we look to the place where God displayed His grace, at the cross, we find what Paul wrote about 1Corinthians:1:18: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." The cross, which is the very defining moment where God shewed mankind His grace, gives us the power to overcome every sin in our life. Just like we have the power of God's grace to believe that all our sins are forgiven when we confess our sins, we also must by faith grasp the power of God's grace, when we are tempted, to give us victory over that temptation. The cross is everything to us as
Christians. When we are tempted and we look to the cross quite often that temptation vanishes from our thoughts and sometimes we must kneel before the cross in the battle against spiritual wickedness in high places before we can overcome.

I will break it down a little further before I show the rest of the contradiction to Romans 3:10. Let's look at the difference between justified (declared righteous) and sanctified (be righteous.) When we break down Romans 7 we might be surprised, because most Christians believe that the man whom Paul is referring to is a converted Christian as he struggles with Romans:7:19: "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." BUT when we follow along with the thread of this teaching we read in Romans:7:14: "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." I ask this; can a carnal person, sold under sin be converted at the same time? The man of Romans 7 is an example of what every Christian goes through. The struggles might be different but nonetheless the principle is the same. We all struggle with the flesh at the beginning of our walk. It is not until toward the end of the chapter when this man cries out Romans:7:24: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Here is where he realizes his need. The battle against the flesh is coming to an end and then as he is converted he states, Romans:7:25: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Here is where in fact his conversion takes place and this man is JUSTIFIED, declared righteous. This is just the beginning of the Christian experience because Paul does not end this journey at the end of chapter seven, but in Romans:8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." this man begins his "walk" of sanctification. At the moment this man cries out to Jesus for forgiveness and accepts him as his Lord and Savior he is perfect, justified and sanctified, and sinless all past tense. The reason I can be certain of this is because as we read on in verse 8:5-8: "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." This is a very simple study which can be broken down in such a way that is a blessing to all. Most people I share this with come to me and tell me it felt like a huge load was lifted off their shoulders.

Romans 8:1 is proof that the "modern" translations are in fact deleting the doctrine of sanctification. Romans 8:1 is the proof text that begins the "walk" of sanctification. half of it is deleted from the "modern" translations.

Now for the verses that contradict Romans 3:10 which states that there is none righteous. Many already know this but when the Lord first showed me these verses, which I use to read over and over without putting them together, I was so excited that His word is so easy if we pray and ask Him to reveal it to us. Read along in 1John:3:7: "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." This verse is telling me that if we do "righteousness" we are "righteous". so if there are none righteous, then what does this verse mean? It also states that there will be much deception on this issue.
Or how about this one; 1Corinthians:6:9-10: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." If we are NOT righteous we will NOT inherit the kingdom of God. Many figure it out when I get to this point, but here is another verse from Isaiah:64:6: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." There is no self righteousness that will acknowledge. Also Paul writes: BE NOT DECEIVED. When we read a statement like that you can be certain there will be much deception on this point. Satan wants you to have 99% of the truth, but the most important 1% is this doctrine of salvation.

As I understand Acts 2:38, repentance and baptism related to sanctification, being the result of conversion (justification), I am of course not a Christian, but the Greek word "eis" means with regard to or related to, so repentance and baptism are sanctification, yes obedience is commanded, but not for salvation, it's commanded for sanctification. If Luke had wished to state: "repent and be baptised in order to be saved" then he would have used a different Greek word instead of "eis" I think it's "hina?" At Romans 4:5 the context is justification, and God justifies the UNgodly, not the godly!

 

[robert skynner]

Here is a very important bible truth that those who say we will never stop sinning, which is the anti righteousness by faith message, completely overlook. As I was doing my devotion the other day the Lord revealed this awesome truth. I wasn't even studying about this.

We read in 1Timothy:1:9: "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," What many believe and teach is that we will never stop sinning and that the law has nothing to do with their lives after they "accept Jesus as their Saviour". What this verse is saying is that the law was given for SINNERS. If we will never stop sinning we will always be under the law and not under grace. The law has nothing to do with the righteous person because they are not sinning, and they believe that IF they do ever sin again that Jesus will forgive all our unrighteousness IF we ask. I will take this a step further by saying that only those who are breaking a law are "under that law".

Thank you for this insightful post.

 

[masmpg]

But by claiming that tithing is for new Covenant Christians today, the SDA are inadvertently mixing the covenants and thereby putting people back under an old covenant system of good works and earning righteousness by your own law keeping. Secondly, doesn’t the Bible teach that the Sabbath is now fulfilled in Christ? The word Sabbath means “rest,” consider Exodus (20:10-11) where God rested on the seventh day, but now that rest is an eternal rest in Christ: “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28). Can't you see that the SDA, by mixing of the covenants, thereby rejects Christ's work on the cross as well as his (New) Covenant with the Father, mediated though the Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:13-15)? Look I'm not a church person, I happen to reject religion, but even I can see, and even a blind man can see that the SDA faith, is simply a plain and straightforward rejection of Christ’s covenant with the Father which is called the New Covenant.

You bring up two very interesting issues. #1 Tithing - Who was given the new covenant? Abraham. Read along in Hebrews about what Abraham did under the "new covenant" in
Hebrews:7:4-10: "Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him." To think that just because a denomination practices a biblical principle makes them legalistic you must first consider HOW the practice is promoted by the denomination. Don't you think that to be considered "legalistic" would mean that it would be a test of fellowship. in other words one could not become part of the church unless they followed the rules strictly? Tithing is not a test of fellowship, you don't have to tithe to be a member of the SDA denomination.

#2. I love the sabbath. I challenge you or anybody to show me from the bible where we are bound to keep SUNday holy, OR where the sabbath has become outlawed or banned in any way.
Here are a few of the many aspects of the sabbath that all those who accuse the SDA denomination for observing are overlooked and downright ignored. #1 - Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath day so the "Lord's day" is the sabbath. To call the SUNday the "Lord's day" is a man made institution. #2 - The sabbath was observed and kept by the disciples, who were the first church of God, which, in order for Jesus to come and take us home we must return to that primitive Godliness. The first TRUE apostolic church was the example that the church today must follow in order to prepare the way for Jesus to come and take His people home. #3 - Many errantly believe that the sabbath was never mentioned in the new testament, but that is false. In Hebrews 4 we read about the rest that God's people failed to enter into. Some places that this word "rest" is used is referring to Canaan, and in our day the heavenly Canaan. The writer of Hebrews associates them together, both a real physical aspect and a spiritual aspect. Today, as back then God's people (church) are falling after the same example of unbelief by not keeping the sabbath holy like God commanded in the fourth commandment Exodus 20. In verse 9 of Hebrews 4 we read this: "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." The word "rest" in this text is "sabbitosmos, which comes from the Greek 4521 sabbaton sab'-bat-on which means the sabbath rest. The seventh day sabbath.

of Hebrew origin (7676); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:--sabbath (day), week.

So there remaineth a seventh day sabbath rest for the people of God who do not fall after the same example of unbelief, Verse 11.