Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

[RND]

Before Jesus’ time it seems that God had not yet clearly revealed much about hell.

To me it seems obvious that God spoke often and quite clearly on the state of the dead and hell.

Even so, evidence shows that at least some Jews believed in an eternal afterlife which was good for some, bad for others. For example, Daniel records, "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

Daniel is describing the resurrection on the last day. The beliefs of the Jews in Jesus' day were derived from there acceptance of Greek/Babylonian/Egyptian mythology.

The Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades were often used by the Jews to refer in general to "the abode of the dead." These words are sometimes loosely translated into English as "hell" (e.g., in the King James Version of the Bible), however, in these instances, the word may refer to either the abode of the damned or the abode of the just, or it may broadly refer to both. Similarly, the Greek words Phulake and Paradaiso may be translated as "hell."

Or simply the grave.

From this parable it seems that all who died prior to Jesus’ Resurrection went to "hell" (Hades); however, the just went to a particular part of hell referred to as "Abraham’s bosom" where they would be comforted until the gates of heaven were opened while the damned went to a place of torment. A great chasm separated these two parts of hell and no one in either part was in heaven.

I think it would be vital that before coming to such a belief the rich symbolism of the parable should be at least understood.

The Catechism explains,

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"— Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical. (CCC 633)
​

A good example of this general rendering of the word "hell" is found in the Apostles’ Creed which states that, after Jesus’ crucifixion and death, "he descended into hell." How are we to understand this?

Hell = grave.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

bump for more discussion

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So what is that richman symbolizing to others here?

 

[Pythons]

Groups or Individuals who subscribe to George Storrs soul sleep doctrine must take this Scripture and claim Christ told a fable, a "windy".

a story about supernatural or extraordinary persons or incidents; legend: the fables of gods and heroes.

So, important to remember that advocates of soul sleep tend to use the argument that most Christians believe "the first lie" that was told by the Devil, i.e. "thou shalt not die". They then produce a few Old Testaments Scriptures out of context to demonstrate that the dead don't know anything and therefore since the Bible interprets itself soul sleep must be true.

A parable COULD HAPPEN while a Fable CAN'T HAPPEN. If it was NOT possible for the rich man to be in torment after his death and prior to the General Resurrection then the Bible has some "fables" in it. Is the Bible a book of Fables? How does one determine what is merely a fable and what really happened.

Hell is a reality.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Groups or Individuals who subscribe to George Storrs soul sleep doctrine must take this Scripture and claim Christ told a fable, a "windy".

So, important to remember that advocates of soul sleep tend to use the argument that most Christians believe "the first lie" that was told by the Devil, i.e. "thou shalt not die". They then produce a few Old Testaments Scriptures out of context to demonstrate that the dead don't know anything and therefore since the Bible interprets itself soul sleep must be true.

A parable COULD HAPPEN while a Fable CAN'T HAPPEN. If it was NOT possible for the rich man to be in torment after his death and prior to the General Resurrection then the Bible has some "fables" in it. Is the Bible a book of Fables? How does one determine what is merely a fable and what really happened.

Hell is a reality.

Beware the fables of the Circumcision!!!!

2 Timothy 4:4 And from indeed the Truth the hearing of them they shall be turning away, upon yet the fables/myths shall be being turned aside to.

Titus 1:14 No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth

 

[brinny]

So what is that richman symbolizing to others here?

those who toss God's grace aside, and swat Him away as if He were a fly...THAT's who it symbolizes.......

 

[Thekla]

(It is from the living of the first of the two greatest commandments, that we come to live the second ...)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Titus 1:14 No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth

those who toss God's grace aside, and swat Him away as if He were a fly...THAT's who it symbolizes.......

Remember how the Judeans wanted the tomb of Jesus sealed so the Disciples could not steal His body?
I found this passage interesting in Matt 28 and can actually releate that to 2 Thess 2:11 concerning the "Lie".

I may make a thread on this.......

[Yount LT] Matt 28:14 and if this be heard by the governor, we will persuade him and you keep free from anxiety.'
15 And they, having received the money, did as they were taught, and this account was spread abroad among Jews till this day.

2 Thess 2:11 and because of this is sending them, the God, an in-working of-deception/error/planhV <4106>, into the to believe them to the Falsehood

 

[JudaicChristian]

So what is that richman symbolizing to others here?

That scripture literally states that the rich go to Hell, and the poor go to Heaven. For those who believe scripture has no Gnostic corruptions, then for them it is proof there is a Hell, and that people are sent there by Jesus because they had wealth.

 

[Pythons]

Beware the fables of the Circumcision!!!!

2 Timothy 4:4 And from indeed the Truth the hearing of them they shall be turning away, upon yet the fables/myths shall be being turned aside to.

Titus 1:14 No heeding to Jewish fables/myths and commandments of men, ones turning from the Truth

Yes, and those myths from the Jews were that Christ's Apostles stole His "dead" body off the cross and hid it away to rot. That's what that Scripture is talking about.

Meanwhile, the guards had scattered, but a few of them went into the city and told the high priests everything that had happened. They called a meeting of the religious leaders and came up with a plan: They took a large sum of money and gave it to the soldiers, bribing them to say, "His disciples came in the night and stole the body while we were sleeping." They assured them, "If the governor hears about your sleeping on duty, we will make sure you don't get blamed." The soldiers took the bribe and did as they were told. That story, cooked up in the Jewish High Council, is still going around.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Reps going to Pythons

 

[JudaicChristian]

That scripture literally states that the rich go to Hell, and the poor go to Heaven. For those who believe scripture has no Gnostic corruptions, then for them it is proof there is a Hell, and that people are sent there by Jesus because they had wealth.

On the other hand, if it is true that God is no respecter of persons because of their poverty or wealth, then that scripture is a falsehood.

 

[brinny]

That scripture literally states that the rich go to Hell, and the poor go to Heaven. For those who believe scripture has no Gnostic corruptions, then for them it is proof there is a Hell, and that people are sent there by Jesus because they had wealth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

On the other hand, if it is true that God is no respecter of persons because of their poverty or wealth, then that scripture is a falsehood.

Tis a New Religion I say. Not sure what you are implying though............SING....DANCE.....REJOICE IN HIM!

YouTube - Duran Duran New Religion

 

[squint]

On the other hand, if it is true that God is no respecter of persons because of their poverty or wealth, then that scripture is a falsehood.

No, not at all. It is a parable connected to a string of parables, emphasis on parable.

Parables are sometimes put out there as BAIT used specifically to CONFUSE the readers or the hearers. This was again an intentional confusion put forth by Jesus. There is no reason at all to disbelieve that the parable was actually given by imposing the FALSE SIGHTINGS that DO come to the fore on all matters of 'parables.' You try to deny HELL on the basis of OTHER PEOPLES 'understandings.' That is not GOOD methodology.

Matthew 13:
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.


What does come forth from ANY parable is a REFLECTION of the individual readers or hearers. Those who do not understand this principle will also not understand any parable. The disciples were given a clean cut scriptural path to UNDERSTAND all parables. But those who do not apply the SCRIPTURAL DECIPHER will alson not understand this or any other parable. They are only guessers and innacurate REFLECTORS until they are LED to apply the decipher that Jesus gave:

Every last parable in the entire Bible, cover to cover is understood on the basis that Jesus gave right here:

Mark 4:13

And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

Parables are and remain INTENTIONALLY misleading...and those who PICK them up WILL give an individual reflection right down to the last person.

NO person will provide a cohesive view on these matters with another person apart from the deciphering methods Jesus used and provided. It's not possible.

IF this PRINCIPLE is not held or understood, there will NEVER be any accurate understanding of ANY parable:


14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately

IF THIS PARTY, SATAN, is not involved in the understanding of ANY PARABLE...then that SAME PARTY will bring CONFUSION to the table of understandings....Now...with this understanding IN HAND...where is SATAN in the parable in question? Got a VIEW on that one?

Scriptural fact 101

enjoy!

squint

 

[JudaicChristian]

Tis a New Religion I say. Not sure what you are implying though............

YouTube - Duran Duran New Religion

On the other hand, if it is true that God is no respecter of persons because of their poverty or wealth, then that scripture is a falsehood.

That scripture literally states that the rich go to Hell, and the poor go to Heaven. For those who believe scripture has no Gnostic corruptions, then for them it is proof there is a Hell, and that people are sent there by Jesus because they had wealth.

The Old Testament does not have the belief in Hell, but translators have changed the translation of scripture to add the belief in Hell. Hell has always been a part of the Pagan religion. The bible is the word of God, but evil men have always tried to destroy it, by adding Pagan and Gnostic corruptions.

 

[squint]

The Old Testament does not have the belief in Hell, but translators have changed the translation of scripture to add the belief in Hell. Hell has always been a part of the Pagan religion. The bible is the word of God, but evil men have always tried to destroy it, by adding Pagan and Gnostic corruptions.

Now Judaic, you know full well that Jesus openly taught that the DEVIL and his messengers WILL abide and remain in the Lake of Fire, the SECOND DEATH...which many of the rewrites have termed HELL.

Hell in the common understanding is the LAKE OF FIRE...the SECOND DEATH.

You are right in going back to the O.T. and not finding this particular matter. The Jews did not have this view. That does NOT mean that it isn't there in parables.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Now Judaic, you know full well that Jesus openly taught that the DEVIL and his messengers WILL abide and remain in the Lake of Fire, the SECOND DEATH...which many of the rewrites have termed HELL.

Hell in the common understanding is the LAKE OF FIRE...the SECOND DEATH.

You are right in going back to the O.T. and not finding this particular matter. The Jews did not have this view. That does NOT mean that it isn't there in parables.

If the Lake of Fire is Hell, and Hell is throw into the Lake of Fire. Then how can there be a Hell if it is destroyed? It is death and the grave that are done away with. The word Gehenna is a symbolic representation of destruction.

 

[squint]

If the Lake of Fire is Hell, and Hell is throw into the Lake of Fire. Then how can there be a Hell if it is destroyed? It is death and the grave that are done away with. The word Gehenna is a symbolic representation of destruction.

The Lake of Fire is not depicted to be thrown into itself! What are you thinking in that statement?

Ultimately all sin, evil and DEATH will reside in that LAKE forever and ever...including the temporal purveyors of those powers, the devil and his messengers.

They are currently HELL ON EARTH...and they WILL GET their just rewards, permanently.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Lake of Fire is not depicted to be thrown into itself! What are you thinking in that statement?

Ultimately all sin, evil and DEATH will reside in that LAKE forever and ever...including the temporal purveyors of those powers, the devil and his messengers.

They are currently HELL ON EARTH...and they WILL GET their just rewards, permanently.

http://www.christianforums.com/t1630728/
The Lake of Fire revealed!