Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

[JudaicChristian]

OK...and I agree, the terms gehenna and hades and sheol in the text are temporal figuratives and temporal workings of judgments...leading up the the GRANDE FINALE... we cool with dat?

The 'rich man' was in HADES was he not? He was assuredly NOT in the LAKE of fire, as that is YET TO COME.

He was in 'the realm of the DEAD.' The DARKNESS. Sheol.

Deut. 32
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.

Could make some interesting connections here to the Lazarus parable as well and 'what happens' when the 'enemies' are divided and then what happens to 'them' alone as in 2 Sam. 22 and to those DIVIDED i.e. Lazarus.

enjoy!

squint

The word hell is a corruption of text by evil men.

 

[squint]

The word hell is a corruption of text by evil men.

Easily remedied when using a linked site

Linked Word Project ~ Genesis 1 ~ The Linked Word Project

I kinda agree with that view fwiw. It suited the 'hell' mongers who use that term to intimidate their flocks into submission. You know, keep 'em payin' and comin' back. Wow 'em! Scare the HELL out of them!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by JudaicChristian The word hell is a corruption of text by evil men.

The greek word for "greek" seems to be more closer to the word "hell".

I need to study on this word a little more.......

Reve 9:11 They are having upon of them a King, the Messenger of the Abyss.
Name to him to Hebrew, Abaddon and in the Greecian/ellhnikh <1673> name he is having apo-lluwn <623>

1673. Hellenikos hel-lay-nee-kos' from 1672; Hellenic, i.e. Grecian (in language):--Greek.
1671. Hellas hel-las' of uncertain affinity; Hellas (or Greece), a country of Europe:--Greece.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The greek word for "greek" seems to be more closer to the word "hell".

I need to study on this word a little more.......

Reve 9:11 They are having upon of them a King, the Messenger of the Abyss.
Name to him to Hebrew, Abaddon and in the Greecian/ellhnikh <1673> name he is having apo-lluwn <623>

1673. Hellenikos hel-lay-nee-kos' from 1672; Hellenic, i.e. Grecian (in language):--Greek.
1671. Hellas hel-las' of uncertain affinity; Hellas (or Greece), a country of Europe:--Greece.

When Revelation was written the king of Greece was the Roman Impire. Italy.
Abyss is parabolic for a unknown.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

When Revelation was written the king of Greece was the Roman Impire. Italy.
Abyss is parabolic for a unknown.

And that is the same Empire YHWH used against OC Jerusalem and the Temple, which I view Revelation as showing

John 11:48 "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him. And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away/arousin <142> (5692) of Us and the Place and the Nation" [Reve 6:6]

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

1220. denarion day-nar'-ee-on of Latin origin; a denarius (or ten asses):--pence, penny(-worth).
AV - penny 9, pence 5, pennyworth 2; 16 denarius = "containing ten"
1) A Roman silver coin in NT time. It took its name from it being equal to ten "asses", a number after 217 B.C. increased to sixteen (about 3.898 grams or .1375 oz.). It was the principal silver coin of the Roman empire. From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, it would seem that a denarius was then the ordinary pay for a day's wages. (Mt. 20:2-13)

 

[brinny]

The greek word for "greek" seems to be more closer to the word "hell".

I need to study on this word a little more.......

Reve 9:11 They are having upon of them a King, the Messenger of the Abyss.
Name to him to Hebrew, Abaddon and in the Greecian/ellhnikh <1673> name he is having apo-lluwn <623>

1673. Hellenikos hel-lay-nee-kos' from 1672; Hellenic, i.e. Grecian (in language):--Greek.
1671. Hellas hel-las' of uncertain affinity; Hellas (or Greece), a country of Europe:--Greece.

Whoa! Gotta meditate on this.

 

[brinny]

And that is the same Empire YHWH used against OC Jerusalem and the Temple, which I view Revelation as showing

John 11:48 "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him. And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away/arousin <142> (5692) of Us and the Place and the Nation" [Reve 6:6]

Revelation 6:6 And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denari and three choinex of barleys a denari, and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

1220. denarion day-nar'-ee-on of Latin origin; a denarius (or ten asses):--pence, penny(-worth).
AV - penny 9, pence 5, pennyworth 2; 16 denarius = "containing ten"
1) A Roman silver coin in NT time. It took its name from it being equal to ten "asses", a number after 217 B.C. increased to sixteen (about 3.898 grams or .1375 oz.). It was the principal silver coin of the Roman empire. From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, it would seem that a denarius was then the ordinary pay for a day's wages. (Mt. 20:2-13)

Giving a lot of thought to OC and the fulfilling of it by the Messiah....this is DEEP.

 

[brinny]

The word hell is a corruption of text by evil men.

Yet, any way you slice it, Jesus the Christ Himself is indicating, powerfully and with urgent warning, that there IS a PLACE for those without HIS covering of righteousness. It is as clear as a bell.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Giving a lot of thought to OC and the fulfilling of it by the Messiah....this is DEEP.

What I found interesting was how much the greek word used in Luke 16:19 comes close to the greek word for "abyss". The letter 'A' before a greek word generally denotes a negative.......

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and in-slipped purple and fine-linen/busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

Reve 11:7 And whenever they should be finishing the testimony of them, the beast, the one ascending out of the Abyss/abussou <12>, shall be doing with them battle, and shall be conquering them, and he shall be killing them

 

[Thekla]

Actually, there is no "h" (sound or letter) in Ellas (Greece) etc.

I don't know why its there ...

I don't know why "hell" was used to translate "hades" in the NT, but hell is from "hellen", meaning "to hide" (which is what Adam and Eve did after they transgressed ...)

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Actually, there is no "h" (sound or letter) in Ellas (Greece) etc.

I don't know why its there ...

I don't know why "hell" was used to translate "hades" in the NT, but hell is from "hellen", meaning "to hide" (which is what Adam and Eve did after they transgressed ...)

What about the greek word #2928?

Colo 1:26 The Mystery having been Hid/apo-kekrummenon <613> (5772) from the ages and from the generations now yet was made manifest to the holy-ones of Him.
27 To-whom wills, the God, to make known any the riches of the glory of the Mystery, this, in the Nations which is Christ in ye the hope of glory.

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her,
42 saying "that if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid/ekrubh <2928> (5648) from thy eyes.

2928. krupto kroop'-to a primary verb; to conceal (properly, by covering):--hide (self), keep secret, secret(-ly).

 

[Thekla]

Yeah - it seems that krypto works for hellen/to hide ( hellen is Ger. ???).

It seems ides/hades is more like sheol; again, I don't know why "hell" was chosen. I don't know when in history the term "hell" took on its current meaning.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Yeah - it seems that krypto works for hellen/to hide ( hellen is Ger. ???).

It seems ides/hades is more like sheol; again, I don't know why "hell" was chosen. I don't know when in history the term "hell" took on its current meaning.

Thanks Thekla.
One reason this particular parable in Luke is so fascinating, as it [and Revelation] are the only places where it shows both an individual and group of individuals in "hades/hell"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Would Lazarus be considered a Jew, non-Jew Israelite or a Gentile? Just curious.

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus! that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water and should be cooling down the tongue of me that I am being pained in the Flame this."

 

[Son of Israel]

Greetings. How do others view that story Jesus told to the Jews in Luke 16 concerning the rich-man and lazarus. A parable or true story? This is one of the largest studies I have of the NT/NC.

I myself humbly view it as a "Covenantle" parable, but would like to here views from other fellow Christians of it. Thanks.......

Matthew 3:9 "And no ye should be thinking to say in yourselves 'a Father we are having, the Abraham'. For I am saying unto ye, that is able the God out of the Stones, these, to raise-up offsprings/children to the Abraham. [Luke 3:8/16:24]

Luke 16:24 And he sounding said: "Father Abraham! be thou merciful to-me! and send Lazarus!, that he should be dipping the tip of the finger of him of water, and should be cooling down the tongue of me,--that I am being pained in the Flame,this."

Hi LittlelambofJesus

(Mat 13:34) All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Yes, of couse it is a parable, with serious consequences to the Sanhedrin and the high priest and his Pharisee brothers in their rejection of Christ and specifically His Resurrection. He said He WAS the resurrection and the life, then He resurrected Lazarus. It is after that they really pursued killing Him.
The Jews and their blind self-righteous claims to being heirs of Abraham was the direct meaning of Jesus' parable to them.
They aren't saved under the "law", they could only be saved in the Abrahamic Covenant in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, of which Lazarus become an unwitting participant.

Has somebody suggested to you that it means something else? If so, what would that possibly be?

Son of Israel

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thank you for your input SoI+

 

[Zeena]

When Revelation was written the king of Greece was the Roman Impire. Italy.
Abyss is parabolic for a unknown.

From what I've come to understand through study [but in no way is it possible for me to know, with certainty, this side of Heaven] Sheol, the abode of the dead, is what Jesus decended into, into a specific compartment (Paradise) reserved for all who did good in thier lives [the Patriarch's and Prophets obviously among them]. He' preached to those in prison', and 'lead captivity captive', He bought Paradise with Him, to Heaven, the 'souls under the altar'..

Hades, the opposite side of the abyss (that great chasm that separated the 'rich man' from Abraham) [in which (the abyss) are the fallen angels, reserved in chains of everlasting darkness 'till judgment], is the abode of the dead who were unrighteous and practiced lawlessness.

These, and they in the Abyss will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is prepared, but not yet kindled.

It is not possible, as some here have alluded, that the Lake of Fire is eternal, for eternal, by definition, consists of having BOTH no beginning AND no ending.

It burns forever and ever, but it has a melting point, so to speak-meh

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

From what I've come to understand through study [but in no way is it possible for me to know, with certainty, this side of Heaven] Sheol, the abode of the dead, is what Jesus decended into, into a specific compartment (Paradise) reserved for all who did good in thier lives [the Patriarch's and Prophets obviously among them]. He' preached to those in prison', and 'lead captivity captive', He bought Paradise with Him, to Heaven, the 'souls under the altar'..

Hades, the opposite side of the abyss (that great chasm that separated Lazarus and Abraham) [in which (the abyss) are the fallen angels, reserved in chains of everlasting darkness 'till judgment], is the abode of the dead who were unrighteous and practiced lawlessness.

These, and they in the Abyss will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is prepared, but not yet kindled.

It is not possible, as some here have alluded, that the Lake of Fire is eternal, for eternal, by definition, consists of having BOTH no beginning AND no ending.

It burns forever and ever, but it has a melting point, so to speak-meh

Very interesting post zeena! Thanks

 

[Remnant 01]

It is a true story

 

[Zeena]

Very interesting post zeena! Thanks

You know how I love to participate-lol

I did notice an error, which I fix'd, upon viewing it again in your quote-lol