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Rich-man and Lazarus True story or Parable

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TheCatholic

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Jewish people are Jewish people no matter their 'sect.'

All of them are taught by Gods Words of the O.T. to be GODS CHILDREN...

Any 'spirit' that seeks to condemn Gods children...well...there is a day in waiting for same called WRATH...
Are you saying that the Jews who rejected the Son of God, and thus rejected God himself, did not condemn themselves?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Are you saying that the Jews who rejected the Son of God, and thus rejected God himself, did not condemn themselves?
I have heard the Jews mention that JESUS was an "anti-semite" Himself since He spoke so much against the Jews.

But one must look at the 2 different Judean audiences Jesus spoke to, the corrupt murderous Judean rulers and the "Lost Sheep of Israel" :wave:

Mark 3:5 And looking about them with wrath, together-sorrowing on the hardness/pwrwsei <4457> of their heart, He is saying to the man "Stretch forth thy hand"! And he stretches out it and his hand was restored as the other.

Romans 11:25 For not I am willing ye to being ignorant brothers of the mystery, this, that no ye may be beside yourselves wise. That a hardening/pwrwsiV <4457> from part to-the Israel has become until which the filling of-the Nations may be entering [Mark 9:322 Peter 2:12]
 
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squint

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Are you saying that the Jews who rejected the Son of God, and thus rejected God himself, did not condemn themselves?

If you want to take up this conversation, please jump into the 'sin' thread. Mr ['OJ?'] has requested me not to observe what is going on in here in this thread and my posts observing it have been removed by the PTB.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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If you want to take up this conversation, please jump into the 'sin' thread. Mr ['OJ?'] has requested me not to observe what is going on in here in this thread and my posts observing it have been removed by the PTB.
Hi squint. I am assuming you are referring to me? [which again you have broke the rules by bringing up removing posts and staff actions]. I could report your post but choose not to.

And since you have brought me up once again, I did not tell you to both quit oberving or to quit posting, but just stay on this Topic and to quit implying I am anti-semitic.

If you want to add something edifying concerning this Parable, that is fine. :wave:
 
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TheCatholic

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If you want to take up this conversation, please jump into the 'sin' thread. Mr ['OJ?'] has requested me not to observe what is going on in here in this thread and my posts observing it have been removed by the PTB.

You seem to have a knack for never answering a question. Is that because your positions are so demonstrably wrong?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I know, get back on topic, right?
Hi bro. This thread was created because I believe this parable has been badly mis-interpreted within Christianity for centuries and if you read commentaries on this parable from other Christians, you will see they agree.

I have posted links to some of them but just do a google search for "parable of richman and lazarus" if you don't believe me. Here are 2 more: :wave:

http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/lazarus.html

THE great majority of the religious sects of Christendom hold that eternal torment in a burning hell is the destiny of the wicked. The words of Jesus recorded at Luke 16:19-31 regarding the rich man and Lazarus are among the proofs offered in support of this teaching.

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html

Is Luke 16:19-31 a "parable?" Many in orthodoxy say that it absolutely is not a parable because a person is mentioned by name and identified as a specific and particular person. The mention of an identifiable person is not, however, the test of a parable. Besides other parables do mention identifiable persons, but they are still parables
 
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TheCatholic

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THE great majority of the religious sects of Christendom hold that eternal torment in a burning hell is the destiny of the wicked. The words of Jesus recorded at Luke 16:19-31 regarding the rich man and Lazarus are among the proofs offered in support of this teaching.

Well, I do believe hell is eternal. I am not knowledgable enough to say if this parable relates to that issue.
 
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brinny

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I have heard the Jews mention that JESUS was an "anti-semite" Himself since He spoke so much against the Jews.

But one must look at the 2 different Judean audiences Jesus spoke to, the corrupt murderous Judean rulers and the "Lost Sheep of Israel" :wave:

Mark 3:5 And looking about them with wrath, together-sorrowing on the hardness/pwrwsei <4457> of their heart, He is saying to the man "Stretch forth thy hand"! And he stretches out it and his hand was restored as the other.

Romans 11:25 For not I am willing ye to being ignorant brothers of the mystery, this, that no ye may be beside yourselves wise. That a hardening/pwrwsiV <4457> from part to-the Israel has become until which the filling of-the Nations may be entering [Mark 9:322 Peter 2:12]


Ahhh excellent point my brother :thumbsup:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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TheCatholic

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I gotta go to work soon, but I'll look into it

Okay, I found this so far. Source:
Catholic Answers: This Rock: Quick Questions


Q: I was told that all the people who died prior to Jesus (including Moses and Abraham) went to hell. Is this true?

A: By his death and Resurrection, Jesus opened heaven (CCC 1026). Prior to that time all who died went to "hell"; however, the just went to a place in hell referred to as "the Bosom of Abraham," where they would be comforted. The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) seems to indicate that there were two parts of hell. Both Lazarus and the rich man died and went to hell, but Lazarus was comforted in the bosom of Abraham while the rich man was in a place of torment. A great chasm separated the two parts.

The Catechism explains,

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"— Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham’s bosom": "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell." Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him. (CCC 633)​

For a fuller explanation, see "Hell? Yes! Part I"
 
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RND

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Luke 16:19-31 is a parable and it is tied directly to the proceeding parables that come before it in Luke 15 and 16. The critical verse in understanding the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is verse 18.

Jesus alluded to the Pharisees as adulterers. Why? What were they doing that could be equated to adultery?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Luke 16:19-31 is a parable and it is tied directly to the proceeding parables that come before it in Luke 15 and 16. The critical verse in understanding the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is verse 18.

Jesus alluded to the Pharisees as adulterers. Why? What were they doing that could be equated to adultery?
Interesting question. Remember the Pharisees were aligned with the Priesthood though they differed on a resurrection.

This richman is also clothed in "purple", much like that City in Revelation.

She also says she "is not a widow", which means she assumes she is married. But to whom and what?

Luke 16:19 A certain Man was rich and inslipped/enedidu-sketo <1737> (5710) purple/porfuran <4209> and fine-linen/busson <1040> making-merry down to a-day, shiningly

Revelation 18:7 So as She glorifies Herself and indulges so much, be ye giving! to Her torment and mourning. That in Her heart She is saying 'I am sitting a Queen, and a Widow not I-am, and mourning not no I may be seeing'
 
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TheCatholic

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Okay, I found this so far. Source:
Catholic Answers: This Rock: Quick Questions


Q: I was told that all the people who died prior to Jesus (including Moses and Abraham) went to hell. Is this true?

A: By his death and Resurrection, Jesus opened heaven (CCC 1026). Prior to that time all who died went to "hell"; however, the just went to a place in hell referred to as "the Bosom of Abraham," where they would be comforted. The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) seems to indicate that there were two parts of hell. Both Lazarus and the rich man died and went to hell, but Lazarus was comforted in the bosom of Abraham while the rich man was in a place of torment. A great chasm separated the two parts.

The Catechism explains,
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"&#8212; Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek&#8212;because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham&#8217;s bosom": "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham&#8217;s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell." Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him. (CCC 633)
For a fuller explanation, see "Hell? Yes! Part I"

Okay, here is some more from: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0710btb.asp

A Brief History of the Afterlife

Before Jesus&#8217; time it seems that God had not yet clearly revealed much about hell.

Even so, evidence shows that at least some Jews believed in an eternal afterlife which was good for some, bad for others. For example, Daniel records, "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2).

The Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades were often used by the Jews to refer in general to "the abode of the dead." These words are sometimes loosely translated into English as "hell" (e.g., in the King James Version of the Bible), however, in these instances, the word may refer to either the abode of the damned or the abode of the just, or it may broadly refer to both. Similarly, the Greek words Phulake and Paradaiso may be translated as "hell."

Jesus&#8217; parable of the rich man and Lazarus helps us to understand this better as it gives us insight into the afterlife as it was understood in Jesus&#8217; time:

There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, full of sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man&#8217;s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham&#8217;s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out, "Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame." But Abraham said, "Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us." And he said, "Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father&#8217;s house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment." But Abraham said, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." And he said, "No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent." He said to him, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead." (Luke 16:19-31)
From this parable it seems that all who died prior to Jesus&#8217; Resurrection went to "hell" (Hades); however, the just went to a particular part of hell referred to as "Abraham&#8217;s bosom" where they would be comforted until the gates of heaven were opened while the damned went to a place of torment. A great chasm separated these two parts of hell and no one in either part was in heaven.

The Catechism explains,

Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"&#8212; Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek&#8212;because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical. (CCC 633)
A good example of this general rendering of the word "hell" is found in the Apostles&#8217; Creed which states that, after Jesus&#8217; crucifixion and death, "he descended into hell." How are we to understand this?
 
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RND

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Interesting question. Remember the Pharisees were aligned with the Priesthood though they differed on a resurrection.
Do you have an answer LLoJ?

This richman is also clothed in "purple", much like that City in Revelation.
The woman in Revelation 17 is not dressed in linen. Linen being a symbol of purity. The purple and linen of Luke 16:19 is a portrait of the priesthood of Levi. See Exodus 28.

Exd 28:5 And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. Exd 28:6 And they shall make the ephod [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, [of] scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
She also says she "is not a widow", which means she assumes she is married. But to whom and what?
Or it could be an admittance that she was never married in the first place or properly divorced.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Okay, here is some more:

A Brief History of the Afterlife
Hi there. Do you see a tie in between the richman in Luke 16 and that Queen in Revelation?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Do you have an answer LLoJ?

The woman in Revelation 17 is not dressed in linen. Linen being a symbol of purity. The purple and linen of Luke 16:19 is a portrait of the priesthood of Levi. See Exodus 28.

Exd 28:5 &#182; And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. Exd 28:6 And they shall make the ephod [of] gold, [of] blue, and [of] purple, [of] scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work.
Or it could be an admittance that she was never married in the first place or properly divorced.
Thank you.

Any significance of Levi listed as #8 in Revelation 7?

I have a study on this but it is too "complicated" to bring up here :wave:

Nation/Kingdom of Judah in Blue:

Reve 7:1. Judah = "I will praise YHWH" 2. Reuben = "He looked on my humliation" 3. Gad = "In raid" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "He hears me" 8. Levi = "and obligated me" 9. Issachar = "Gave me hire" 10. Zebulun = "a dowry" 11. Joseph = " he took away my reproach" 12. Benjamin = "by Son of His right hand"
 
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