Revisiting Daniel 12

[taikachanz]

Who hath made these dates/times known unto you, even especially that last one?

This is not directed at you Leuko, as you, according to your profile, are not here to be ministered to and therefore are not willing to consider what I have presented here. It is, however, for those who are interested in searching for themselves the scriptures to see if what I have presented may be plausible.



These dates/times are revealed through thorough study of prophecy and history.

Again I reiterate that Daniel 12 is the final time in which Christ will return. It was through Daniel 12 that William Miller taught, and early adventist believed, that Jesus was to return in 1844. When this did not happen then the event had to be reevaluated. BUT, the event was only reevaluated within the context of the 2300 days prophecy which spoke of the Cleansing of the Temple.

By integrating the time prophecies of Daniel 12 into the prophecies concerning the 2300 days prophecy, and continuing to do so, negates that Daniel 12 is referring to Christ's return and therefore destroys the outline of Daniel that is shown in Daniel 2 through the Statue revealed to King Nebucadnezzer.

Further still, no where in Daniel do you find where the abomination of desolation is set up:

Daniel 11:31 "And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall polute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away, the daily ..., and they shall place the abomination that make desolation."

Daniel 12:11 "And from the time ... the daily ... shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, ... ... ... a thousand and two hundred and ninety days."

It isn't until Jesus is discoursing on end time events with the disciples that where this abomination is to be set up is revealed.

Matt. 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abonimation of desolation, spoken of by Daniel, STANDING in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"​

Remember, the disciples asked concerning what Jesus had said when he left the temple:​

Matt 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." This was said in fulfillment of Daniels prophetic vision of the 490 days prophecy:​

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall be cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of the abominations he shall make ... desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."​

In other words when Jesus declared the temple desolate he was preparing it for the setting up of the abominations that would follow that would be perfomed where the temple once stood, including the setting up of a physical structure that would last until the "consummation" {3617 kalah kal-law; from 3615; a completion; adv. completely; also destruction: - altogether, (be, utterly), consume (-d), consummation (-ption), was determined, (full, utter0 end, riddance.
3615 kalah, kaw-law; a prim. root: to end, whether intrans. ( to cease, be finished, perish) or trans. (to complete, prepare, consume): - accomplish, cease, consume (away), determine, destroy (utterly), be ( when...were) done, (be an) end (of), expire, (cause to) fall faint, finish, fufil, X fully, X have, leave (off), long, bring to pass, wholly reap, make clean riddance, spend, quite take away, waste.} or until the time of his second advent at which time this particular abomination would be destroyed when final judgment was proclaimed "that determined (the judgment) shall be poured upon the desolate (those who refuse Christ become desolate, this is why Jesus said what he did when he left the temple, because they had rejected him.) This text must be understood in the context of time and subject it was given and who it was being spoken too and how they would understand it in these same contexts. The subject was, in part, about the temple and therefore the understanding of the location of Holy Place and where the abomination of desolation was to be set up is pertainant to this understanding. It is the same when we take up the discussion of the "daily" and its relation to Daniel's understand as to what the "daily" meant to him. These are very important issues when it comes to understanding Daniel 12.​

How do I know that this is a physical structure? Because I studied what "setting up" means with in scripture:​

Exodus 40:2 "On the first day of the first month shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of the congregation."​

Exodus 40:17-18 "And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first ... of the month ... the tabernacle was reared up.
And Moses reared up the tabernacle, and fastened his sockets, and set up the boards thereof, and put in the bars thereof, and reared up his pillars."​

Exodus 40:28 "And he set up the hanging ... at the door of the tabernacle."​

set up = reared up​

Numbers 7:1 "And it came to pass on the day that Moses had fully set up the tabernacle, and had anoitnted it, and sanctified it, and all the intruments thereof, both the altar and all the vessels thereof, and had anointed them, and sanctified them;"​

Daniel 3:1-5 "Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of godl, whose height ... threescore cubits, ... the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.
Then Nebuchadnezzar the king sent to gather together the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,
... at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:"​

It is important to understand what it was that was "set up" and who set it up. That is way Daniel mentions it so many times. The statue was to honor the king himself for he knew that the head of gold on the dream statue represented himself. But not wanting to admit that his kingdom would come to an end, in defiance to God he set this gold statue up as an idol to himself. This is the type of the abomination that was to be set up in the Holy Place when the time came for it to happen. An idolatrous image was to be placed, SET UP, in the place of the temple after its destruction. This could not happen until the temple was declared desolate and was utterly destroyed. Jesus declared it desolate to the disciples and the Romans utterly destroyed it in AD 70, thus clearing the way for another structure to take the temples place some time in the future. The only structure, historically, that holds this position now is the Dome of the Rock, and it sits exactly where Jesus said it would, in the HOLY PLACE.​

There are 74 scriptural texts that have "set up" in them, in virtually all of them it is given to mean "rear up" or "to build up" or "to construct" and it always refers to some sort of edifice or physical materials.​

As I stated before, there were two events that needed to take place for the countdowns in Daniel 12 to begin. And these countdowns must be completed in their order: 1260, 1290 & 1335. Each of these periods must end with a significant event involving the players in prophecy, Israel (physical and spiritual), the church, and the anti-christ. This is therefore where the dates I have shown comes from. Whether God lead me to this or not I can only say that I have been driven in this effort to ask the hard questions and dig into the scriptures for the answers. I found that the Dome of the Rock was completed in 688 AD and added the timelines to this date. Is it coencidence that each ends on a significant time when the world saw the resurrection of the state of Israel? Or the inauguration of the most powerful Pope in RCC history? Is it coencidence that now, in this time in history, we see an escallation of economic, political and environmental turmoil that this message should be revealed?​

The scriptures say that God does not change. If he does not change why would he communicate in a different manner in warning his people concerning the soon return of our savior and Lord? He has always revealed near the end of a prophetic period when the period was coming to a close. He has done this throughout biblical history, he did it with William Miller and the Millerite movement. And eventhough Miller was wrong in his conclusions as to when the Lord would return, look at what his work has wrought,"for you shall know them by their fruits" What do you suppose would have happened had Miller not stepped out? The same thing would have happened for the Lord would have found another that would have done as Miller did, for it was God's plan to do so. We can not stop the work of God. Even members of the Sanhedrian understood this during the time of the Apostles. Are we to be any less cognizant of this fact?​

Understand also, just because a date of 2023 has been set does not mean everything is to happen in that year. Heavens no! There are yet things to happen, but the rappidity of these things will come so fast that our heads will ache just trying to keep up with it all. The issue then becomes "how much time do we have remaining to save as many lost souls as we can?" Time is running out, and we will be responsible for any time we fail in using to the Lord's cause. That is why I am presenting this, that is why this is so important.​

EGW said that, in her time, what I am presenting here would be put to no good use during her time. And she was right! Who would have wanted to wait 170+ years and work in the Lord's field knowing that the Lord would not come in their time. Their thoughts would have been "oh, I have time, I can wait." They could not wait, and neither can we for we do not know when next we will be in a situation that puts us in the grave. It was necessary to grow the faithful and get the word out to all the world and it was waste of time to dwell on that which would have done the Church no good. But now, we are that last generation she talked about that would have the Lord reveal the light of his advent.​

Again, I only ask that everyone that reads this thread do as I have done and do the research. Scoure the scriptures and "prove all things." I am only human, as EGW said, and she included herself in this, "No one is infallible, God alone has infallibility."​

Amen​

 

[kingdomfirst]

For those of you who are looking into this thread I recommend you review the threads "Where is the Holy Place" and "Who was William Miller". These threads will give an understand of what is presented here, if they are not read this thread will make now sense and will appear as pure speculation.

OCTOBER 22, 1844, was a day of great anticipation for some 50,000 people on the East Coast of the United States.

Their spiritual leader, William Miller, had said that Jesus Christ would return on that very day.

The Millerites, as they were called, waited in their meeting places until darkness fell. Then the next day dawned, but the Lord had not come. Disillusioned, they returned home and thereafter recalled that day as the “Great Disappointment.”

So are we in the last days now, and what prophecies have yet to be fulfilled?

 

[taikachanz]

OCTOBER 22, 1844, was a day of great anticipation for some 50,000 people on the East Coast of the United States.

Their spiritual leader, William Miller, had said that Jesus Christ would return on that very day.

The Millerites, as they were called, waited in their meeting places until darkness fell. Then the next day dawned, but the Lord had not come. Disillusioned, they returned home and thereafter recalled that day as the “Great Disappointment.”

So are we in the last days now, and what prophecies have yet to be fulfilled?

As we study the sanctuary and what it symbolizes and look at the feasts that were required of the Israelites by God we see within them a type for Christ. Each feast has be fulfilled in Christ as follows:

• Passover (Nissan 14) --- Crucifixion
• Unleavened Bread (Nissan 15) --- Christ in the Grave
• First Fruits (Nissan 16) --- Christ’s resurrection
• Feast of weeks (Sivan 6) --- Pentecost
• Feast of Trumpets ( Tishri 1) --- Heralding of Judgment (1844 – Second Advent Movement)
• Day of Atonement (Tishri 10) --- Pre Advent Judgment – Cleansing of the Temple
• Feast of Tabernacles (Tishri 15) --- Home coming – SECOND ADVENT

We find the last Feast, Feast of Tabernacles revealed in Daniel 12


Up until this time however there are a few things that need to happen:

• The institution of a one world political system
• The institution of a one world economic system
• The institution of a one world religious system
• A little time of trouble
• The infamous Sunday Law
• A big time of trouble (probation closes and God’s people are persecuted)

Time is running out. We will see these things quickly accelerating within the next few years.

 

[Leuko Petra]

...These dates/times are revealed through thorough study of prophecy and history....

"This is the testimony I have borne ever since the passing of the time in 1844: ‘Time after time will be set by different ones which will pass by; and the influence of this time-setting will be to destroy the faith of God’s people.’ If I had seen in vision, and borne my testimony to definite time, I could not have written and published, in the face of this testimony, that all times that should be set would pass, for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ. Certainly for the last thirty years, that is, since the publication of this statement, I would not be inclined to set time for Christ to come, and thus place myself under the same condemnation with those whom I was reproving. I had no vision until 1845 which was after the passing of the time of general expectation in 1844. I was then shown that many would be deceived, and would set different times for the Lord to come, and urge them upon their brethren. But the Lord showed me that these times would pass; for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ; and that every time thus set and passed, would only weaken the faith of God’s people. Has not this testimony which has been before the public nearly thirty years in published form been fulfilled in every particular? The First-day Adventists have set time after time, and notwithstanding the repeated failures, they have gathered courage to set new times. God has not led them in this. Many of them have denounced the prophetic time, and the fulfillment of marked events in prophecy, because the time passed in 1844, and did not bring the expected event. They rejected the true prophetic time, and the enemy has had power to bring strong delusions upon them that they should believe a lie. I have borne the testimony since the passing of the time in 1844, that there should be no definite time set by which to test God’s people. The great test on time was in 1843 and 1844; and all who have set time since these great periods marked in prophecy were deceiving and being deceived. ..." - Life Sketches of James White and Ellen G. White 1880, p. 221.1 (1)

The holy Place that Jesus mentioned [Matthew 24:15; see also Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20 for parallel passages in the Gospel] is the area which surrounded the outside land of Jerusalem, not in it, see Nehemiah 13, where Nehemiah set a boundary about Jerusalem, as holy, that none may come upon the sabbath day in that area to sell outside the city gates...

"...Jesus declared to the listening disciples the judgments that were to fall upon apostate Israel, and especially the retributive vengeance that would come upon them for their rejection and crucifixion of the Messiah. Unmistakable signs would precede the awful climax. The dreaded hour would come suddenly and swiftly. And the Saviour warned his followers: “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand), then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains.” [Matthew 24:15, 16; Luke 21:20.] When the idolatrous standards of the Romans should be set up in the holy ground, which extended some furlongs outside the city walls, then the followers of Christ were to find safety in flight. When the warning sign should be seen, those who would escape must make no delay. Throughout the land of Judea, as well as in Jerusalem itself, the signal for flight must be immediately obeyed. He who chanced to be upon the housetop must not go down into his house, even to save his most valued treasures. Those who were working in the fields or vineyards must not take time to return for the outer garment laid aside while they should be toiling in the heat of the day. They must not hesitate a moment, lest they be involved in the general destruction. ..." - The Great Controversy 1888, p. 26.1 (1)

In charity, you are not led of God, you are right now deceived and so thereby deceiving others, even as Eve unto Adam... break from this by turning unto God, for right now this error is leading others to their destruction and the losing of their faith. This message borne, is of satan, and is a serious hindrance to the Three Angels Messages and the understanding of the prophecies. What is being presented as truth in the OP of this thread and throughout is not light, nor new light, but gross darkness of the pit.

The 1,260 years ended in 1798, the 1,290 ended in 1798, and the 1,335 ended in 1843, and the 2,300 ended in 1844. The time of the end is from 1798 - 1844. For it was the "time" [and in order to be time, it must have length/duration] of the end [of the prophetic times] given in Daniel. Those three times, were subsets of the greater 2,300, even of which the 70 weeks was also a subset, as the 70 weeks itself had subsets also. The "time of the end" [1798-1844] is not the "end" of all things, but merely the period of years in which all of the time related prophecies of Daniel came to their end.

These time frames will not be repeated, since they are subsets of the 2,300. If they were to be repeated, so too would the 70 weeks and the whole 2,300 days. The time frames will not be repeated, but certain similar events will... history/events, not the prophetic times.

 

[taikachanz]

The holy Place that Jesus mentioned [Matthew 24:15; see also Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20 for parallel passages in the Gospel] is the area which surrounded the outside land of Jerusalem, not in it, see Nehemiah 13, where Nehemiah set a boundary about Jerusalem, as holy, that none may come upon the sabbath day in that area to sell outside the city gates...

I see no where in Nehemiah 13 wherein he declared the boundry about Jerusalem as holy, and to prove my point and to show I have read it here it is:

"On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever;
Because they met not the children of Israel with bread and with water, but hired Balaam against them, that he should curse them; howbeit our God turned the curse into a blessing.
Now it came to pass, when they had heard the law, that they seperated from Israel all the mixed multitude.
And before this, Eliashib the priest, having the oversight of the chamber of the house of our God, ... allied unto Tobiah:
And he had prepared for him a great champer, where aforetime they laid the meat offerings, the frankincense, and the vessels, and the tithes of the corn, the new wine, and the oil, which was commanded ... ... ... to the Levites, and the singers, and the porters; and the offerings of the priests.
But in all the ... was not I at Jerusalem: for in the two and thirtieth year of Artaxerxes king of Babylon came I unto the king, and after certain days obtained I leave of the king:
And I came to Jerusalem, and understood of the evil that Eliashib did for Tobiah, in preparing him a chamber in the courts of the house of God.
And it grieved me sore: therefore I cast forth all the household stuff of Tobiah out of the chamber.
Then I commanded, and they cleansed the chambers: and thither brought I again the vessels of the house of God, with the meat offering and the frankicense.
And I preceived that the portions of the Levites had not been given ...: for the Levites and the singers, that did the work, were fled every one to his field.
Then contended I with the rulers, and said, Why is the house of God forsaken? And I gathered them together, and set them in their place.
Then brought all Judah the tithe of the corn and the new wine and the oil unto the treasuries.
And I mad treasurers over the treasuries, Shelemiah the priest, and Zadok the scribe, and of the Levites, Pedaiah: the son of Zaccur, the son of Mattaniah: for they were counted faithful, and their office ... to distribute unto their brethren.
Remember me, O my God, concerning this, and wipe not out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God, and for the offices thereof."

This first part we see that Nehemiah is only correcting the wrongs that the people at Jerusalem were committing against the Lord, mingling with the Ammonites and Moabites, to include marriage. And then there is the violation of the temple by housing some favored individual by the High Priest, whom Nehemiah removes from the temple and also replaces the High Priest and those priests involved in this situation. No mention of making that area surrounding Jerusalem as holy, not to mentiong making it a holy place.

next page next section of Nehemiah 13... starting at verse 15

 

[taikachanz]

Continuing Nehemiah 13:15-22

"In those days saw I in Judah ... treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all ... ... burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified ... ... in the day wherein they sold victuals.
There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What eveil thing ... this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I sommanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and ... of my servants set I at the gates, ... there whould n burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
So the merchants and sellers of all kind of ware lodged without Jerusalem once ofr twice.
Then I testified against them, and said unto them, Why lodge ye about the wall? it ye do ... again, I will lay hands on you. From that time forth came they no ... on the sabbath.
And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and ... they should come ... keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, ... this also, and spare me according to the greatness of they mercy."

I this section we find Nehemiah correcting the violations of the sabbath by the Jews and by the merchants. However, there is no setting asside any portion of the area around or in Jerusalem as Holy. If any place would be sanctioned as holy it would have been that gates, but this is not the case. Instead what is done is that priests are assigned as guards at the gates during the time of the sabbath to insure that Jews do not go out to meet the merchants nor that the merchants enter the city to try and sell to the Jews on the sabbath day. Which is the only thing that Nehemiah commands to be sanctified.

Nehemiah 13:23-31

"In those days also saw I Jews ... had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, ... of Moab:
And their children spake half in the speech of Ashdod, and could not speak in the Jews' language, but according to the language of each people.
And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote ceeraain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, ... , Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves.
Did not Solomon king of Israel sin by these things? Yet among many nations was there not king like him, who was beloved of his God, and God made him king over all Israel: nevertheless even him did outlandish women cause to sin.
Shall we then hearken unto you to do all this great evil, to transgress against our God in marrying strange wives?
And ... of the sons of Joiada, the son of Eliashib the high priest, ... son in law to Sanaballat the Horonite: therefore I chased him from me.
Remember them, O my God, because they have defiled the priesthood, and the covenant of the priesthood, and of the Levites.
Thus cleansed I them from all strangers, and appointed the ward of the priests and the Levites, every one in his business;
And for wood offering, at times appointed, and for the firstfruits. Remember me, O my God, for good."

Either I'm blind or it's just not there. If anybody else can see where there is an area round Jerusalem the is designated as a holy place please point it out to me. This section certianly doesn't have it as it is an expansion upon what happened in the first section, verses 1-14.

 

[taikachanz]

"This is the testimony I have borne ever since the passing of the time in 1844: ‘Time after time will be set by different ones which will pass by; and the influence of this time-setting will be to destroy the faith of God’s people.’ If I had seen in vision, and borne my testimony to definite time, I could not have written and published, in the face of this testimony, that all times that should be set would pass, for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ. Certainly for the last thirty years, that is, since the publication of this statement, I would not be inclined to set time for Christ to come, and thus place myself under the same condemnation with those whom I was reproving. I had no vision until 1845 which was after the passing of the time of general expectation in 1844. I was then shown that many would be deceived, and would set different times for the Lord to come, and urge them upon their brethren. But the Lord showed me that these times would pass; for the time of trouble must come before the coming of Christ; and that every time thus set and passed, would only weaken the faith of God’s people. Has not this testimony which has been before the public nearly thirty years in published form been fulfilled in every particular? The First-day Adventists have set time after time, and notwithstanding the repeated failures, they have gathered courage to set new times. God has not led them in this. Many of them have denounced the prophetic time, and the fulfillment of marked events in prophecy, because the time passed in 1844, and did not bring the expected event. They rejected the true prophetic time, and the enemy has had power to bring strong delusions upon them that they should believe a lie. I have borne the testimony since the passing of the time in 1844, that there should be no definite time set by which to test God’s people. The great test on time was in 1843 and 1844; and all who have set time since these great periods marked in prophecy were deceiving and being deceived. ..." - Life Sketches of James White and Ellen G. White 1880, p. 221.1 (1)

I really don't think you understand the context in which this was written nor the history behind it. Yes, EGW was right in saying what she had to say. Why? Because there was so much of trying to use the same data to figure out the Second Advent and to recalculate from different times. This became frustrating to EGW as well as others who were trying to do a work that needed to be done in preparation for the right time. As I stated earlier God does things in his own time. He has a standard way of doing what he will, all we need do is to study the scriptures to understand what that standard is. Miller understood it and so did those that followed his lead. However, after 1843/1844 seems everyone forgot much of what Miller taught and ignored the obvious.

Let's look at it this way. You're a scientist, you have a theory that you want to prove. Oh, let's say that you can combine two elements, 1 solid and 1 liquid, together and get a harmless chemical reaction unless it is sealed up in a container of some sort. So you begin to conduct an experiment. Now, if the first two elements you use don't react the way you predicted do you continue to use these same elements hoping to change the results or do you change at least one of the elements?
You change at least one of the elements, if you use the same two elements you're gonna get the same results each time and your efforts become useless. Now let's say you keep experimenting and get no results for, mmmm, 2 years and you come to the conclusion that your theory is wrong and this can't be done. You write a paper on this and get it published in a renowned scientific journal and get the nobel peace prize... yeah!!!. But then years later, by accident a mother, at home accidentally pours baking soda into some vinager and her high school son presents this at a science fair. So what happens? Does the entire scientific community say "Oh no, this can't be, we have renowned nobel peace prize winner that wrote a paper that said it can't be done, therefore this is not possible, or does the son get recognized for confirming the original hypothesis?

No one is infallible, so quit treating EGW as if she were, she, herself said she wasn't. She herself directed everyone to search the scriptures for truth. Her job was to direct us to the scriptures to find truth not to direct what truth was. Everything that she wrote was to be confirmed by the word. If God had not revealed information at that time to confirm or negate what she said it's not her fault and she is to hold not blame. It was her understanding "at that time".

Yes, Satan used all those, in her time, that tried to correct the error of William Miller to bring darkness on the message that was to be proclaimed, but God was not to be silent forever. He has done so ever since 1843/1844, and, I'll admit, that he may be doing so at this time, however, EGW told the church time after time that we are not to discard new things just because it was not taught in her time or by her. Closed mindedness is what caused the Jews to reject the Messiah when he came the first time, the it not be the same with us as we look for him the second time.

 

[taikachanz]

In charity, you are not led of God, you are right now deceived and so thereby deceiving others, even as Eve unto Adam... break from this by turning unto God, for right now this error is leading others to their destruction and the losing of their faith. This message borne, is of satan, and is a serious hindrance to the Three Angels Messages and the understanding of the prophecies. What is being presented as truth in the OP of this thread and throughout is not light, nor new light, but gross darkness of the pit.

Everything I have presented here has come directly from scripture, not one word has come from any other source other than historical records. If this is leading others to "their destruction" then I will be held accountable. As I've stated on several occasions, I would rather error on the side of doing something rather than on doing nothing. Only God knows what's in my heart and why I am doing thing. Do you know me, do you know who I am. No, all you know of my is my avitar name. I want no credit for what I do. All credit goes to God and is to his Glory. I have never felt closer to God than I do now. You have know idea the PIT that he has pulled me out of, nor the Joy that he has put back into my life. So don't think that you know all there is to know. None of us do, nor ever will, not even when the Lord returns will we know everything, but we will have a chance to learn in eternity.

The 1,260 years ended in 1798, the 1,290 ended in 1798, and the 1,335 ended in 1843, and the 2,300 ended in 1844. The time of the end is from 1798 - 1844. For it was the "time" [and in order to be time, it must have length/duration] of the end [of the prophetic times] given in Daniel. Those three times, were subsets of the greater 2,300, even of which the 70 weeks was also a subset, as the 70 weeks itself had subsets also. The "time of the end" [1798-1844] is not the "end" of all things, but merely the period of years in which all of the time related prophecies of Daniel came to their end.

These time frames will not be repeated, since they are subsets of the 2,300. If they were to be repeated, so too would the 70 weeks and the whole 2,300 days. The time frames will not be repeated, but certain similar events will... history/events, not the prophetic times.

Here are the subsets of the 2300 days prophecy found in Daniel 9:

Daniel 9:24"Seventy weeks (490 years) are determined upon they people......."

Daniel 9:25 "........Seven weeks (49 years), and threescore and two weeks (334 years) ..."

Daniel 9:27 ".... confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years) ............. in the midst of the week (3 1/2 years [X2]) ...."

So there you have it:

490 years = 49 years + 334 years + (7 years = 3 1/2 years + 3 1/2 years)

leaving, of the 2300, 1810 years

starting at 457 BC and ending in 1844

The 1260 subset is yet a matter that needs futher consideration as I believe, and there is possible biblical evidence that there is more than one time period that contains this number of years, especially if my contention is correct that the 2300 days and the Daniel 12 time periods are separate time prophecies.

If this is the case then consideration must be made that all time prophecies have a consistant chronology that must by followed and maintained and therefore the Daniel 12 prophecy, as I have stated before, time periods must fall in chronological order as they are presented within the prophecy, 1260, 1290 and 1335. You cannot take them out of their chronological order and mantain integrity. So to say that the 1290 came before the 1260 and then came the 1335, which William Miller did, breaks the consistancy. To do this we would then have to allow that those who break off the last 7 years of the 490 years portion in the midst of the 2300 days prophecy have every right to do so. Which we don't, so, therefore, we ourselves must maintain a consistancy within these boundries or be called hypocrites.

 

[Leuko Petra]

...I have never felt closer to God than I do now....

Brother, feeling can be dangerous, for the relationship with Christ Jesus is based upon Faith, not flesh, nor feeling. Your feelings can lead you astray, and can substitute biblical faith and supplant it, and can even be manipulated by the enemy, just ask Peter:

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. Mark 16:22

Peter was led by feeling, and he was even standing right next to Jesus, that's pretty close wouldn't you say? Now, this is not to say that feeling does not have its place.

However, the LDS have similar 'experiences' with their 'burning in the bosom', a mere feeling, and they feel close to 'god' also, but most of their doctrines are far from scripture. Roman Catholics, Charismatics, etc have the same, by differing names, and are also far from the same Word.

Now to the heart of the matter:

It is said that the prophecies must be seen in prophecy in order of their appearance in Scripture and that the 1,290 cannot precede the 1,260, yet we see the 1,260 precede the 2,300, from Daniel 7 to Daniel 8 to Daniel 9 and seen again in Daniel 12. Additionally we see the 490 years begin the 2,300 years, as it was the first portion of the whole, and yet the 490 years delineation of Daniel 9 was given after the 2,300 years of Daniel 8.

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Daniel 7:25

This "time and times and the dividing of time", being 1,260 years is given numerous ways in Scripture, all of which signify the exact same prophetic period [1,260 years]:

Daniel 7:25 - "time and times and the dividing of time"
Daniel 12:7 - "a time, times, and an half"

Revelation 11:2 -"forty and two months"
Revelation 11:3 - "a thousand two hundred and threescore days"
Revelation 12:6 - "a thousand two hundred and threescore days"
Revelation 12:14 - "a time, and times, and half a time"
Revelation 13:5 - "forty and two months"

Luke 21:24 - "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
Revelation 11:2 - "the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles"

Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5[and consider also Luke 21:24;p"...trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." and Revelation 11:2;p"...given unto the Gentiles..."]

This prophetic time period was from 538 AD -1798 AD. Daniel and Revelation confirm this in multiple ways, one of which is structurally [chiastic], another of which is linguistically [language/terminology], another of which is symbolically [same symbols utilized in connection], another of which is locality within the prophecy [same period of events surround it] etc.

Notice the structure of Revelation 12 itself which links the language together:

There is also inherently within the very texts of Revelation 12 a very specific structure, a chiastic structure/pattern [1,2,3,3,2,1, or A,B,C,C,B,A, etc] which also cannot be broken. A general simplistic view seen here:

Revelation 12:1-5[A1] = Woman and Child

Revelation 12:6[B1] = 1,260 days [years]

Revelation 12:7-9[C1] = War between Michael and Satan in Heaven

Revelation 12:10[D1] = Cross, Power of Christ, His Victory

Revelation 12:11[D2] = Lamb, Blood of Christ, Their [overcoming saints] Victory in Him

Revelation 12:12[C2] = Dragon permanently cast down to Earth fights against Jesus' body

Revelation 12:13-16[B2] = Woman in Wilderness, for a time, and times, and half a time [aka, 3 1/2 times or 1,260 days [years]]

Revelation 12:17[A2] = Woman and her seed

Thus the Revelation 12:6 and Revelation 12:14 speaks of the exact same timeframe, and the same language is used in Revelation 11:2 and Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 13:5, which is also the same language used in Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7 and this is further corroborated by the language of Revelation 11:2 and Luke 21:24.

Thus we see in Daniel 7:25 that the 1,260 [see also The Great Controversy pages 306, 439] was given even before the 2,300 days, or the first portion of the 2,300, being the 490. There are also further time prophecies given in Revelation, which are also portions of the 2,300, such as

...the one found in Revelation 2:10 "tribulation ten days" [10 years, 303 AD - 313 AD; the Diocletian Persecution; see also Acts of the Apostles page 588.1 & Christ Triumphant page 312.1 & From Trials to Triumph page 307.4]

...and also Revelation 11:9 "three days and a half", repeated in Revelation 11:11 "three days and a half" [3 1/2 years, 1793 AD - 1797 AD; see also The Great Controversy pages 230, 265-288; even specifically pages 282-286].

Inbetween the 1,260 years [538 AD - 1798 AD] and surrounding it we had such prophetic events as:

...the Great Lisbon Earthquake [Revelation 6:12; see also The Great Controversy pages 304-305; November 1st 1755]

...and following it was the Great Dark Day [Revelation 6:12, etc; see also The Great Controversy pages 306-308; May 19th 1780]

...and following it was the Superlative Leonid Meteor Shower, where the "stars" fell [Revelation 6:13; see also the Great Controversy pages 333-334; November 13th 1833]

etc, etc... also the rise of the USA [1776-1798] and the fall of Papal Rome [1798], France/Atheism helping the USA and the overthrow of Papal Rome, etc, etc.

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. Daniel 11:31

Notice that this taking away of the daily and the placing of the abomination take place before the falling of many by sword, etc:

And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. Daniel 11:33

When looked at in Parallel, the "[many] days" is the 1,260 years, for notice:

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. Daniel 11:35

See also Daniel 7:25, where there was the "wear[ing] out of the saints". See also the Magnification of the Little Horn power in Daniel 7, 8 and 11. They are all parallel events, speaking of the same timeframes.

It wasn't until 1798 AD [the beginning of the "time of the end", with 1844 AD being the end of the "time of the end", and 1798-1844 being the timeframe of the "time of the end"], though the reformation helped reduce a great deal, that finally the Papal Rome received its deadly wound, by the French, even the same power, the Franks that helped it in the beginning.

Speaking of the 1,335, it is written:

"... In his vision of the last days Daniel inquired, “O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, [page 225-226] and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.... Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days” [Daniel 12:8-13]. Daniel has been standing in his lot since the seal was removed and the light of truth has been shining upon his visions. He stands in his lot, bearing the testimony which was to be understood at the end of the days. ..." [Sermons & Talks Volume 1, page 225-226] - Link see also Link and also ...

"... “And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And He said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.”

It was the Lion of the tribe of Judah who unsealed the book and gave to John the revelation of what should be in these last days.

Daniel stood in his lot to bear his testimony which was sealed until the time of the end, when the first angel’s message should be proclaimed to our world...." [Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers page 115] - Link

Daniel's time prophecies are all ended/fulilled and some of the events left after the "time of the end" [1798-1844] are still remaining.

From 1798-1843,1844 we see the Book of Daniel opened in Revelation 10, even the Great disappointment in the Seven Thunders and the prophesying again and Daniel being explained.

As for the "Blessed is he who waits", [see also Psalms 33:20; Isaiah 30:18, 64:4; Habakkuk 2:3; Zephaniah 3:8;] and combine with Revelation 14:13, etc, as it deals with those who were to wait upon the Lord, even though the time seem long, that those after that time frame would receive a special blessing in the Special Resurrection. For the "cometh to" is for those who began with the movement and stayed by faith, making it to 1843... since the prophecy could only be understood beginning in the year 1798... that those who faithfully came to that date 1843 and after, would be of that group that would come to experience a special resurrection yet to come.

 

[taikachanz]

I know the difference between "faith" and "feelings". It is through my faith that I have come closer to God. When I speak of "feeling closer to God" it is that my assurance of his reality has increased exponencially since I began this study due to the realization that I have become more sure of his eminent return. You, again, have made another mistaken assumption by supposing that my "feeling" is an experiencial feeling rather than a feeling based on faith. In part there is experience that is involved, but, the experiences that I have encountered have increased my faith and by doing so my reliance upon God has also increased. By faith God does what he says he will and through his actions toward us we gain an experience of his love which, in turn, causes our faith to grow for we realize where these experiences by faith comes from. This is why our works are as filthy rags if we do not have faith. So when I say I "feel closer to God" it is because I know his love is real.

How many ways will you say the samething over and over. Go back and read my posts on this matter. It is obvious you refuse to see through your own prejudices concerning this issue. You use EGW's writings to disprove whatever I say, yet ignore her when it does not suit your view point. Fine, this is the same thing other protestants do when trying to prove a doctrine that does not exist in the scriptures.

I leave this for others to detemine for themselves, God will eventually reveal if this is true or not, IN HIS WORD. And, also, only time will tell, but be warned, IF this is true by the time we know for sure, it will be too late.

 

[Castaway57]

I leave this for others to detemine for themselves, God will eventually reveal if this is true or not, IN HIS WORD. And, also, only time will tell, but be warned, IF this is true by the time we know for sure, it will be too late.

It is essential for everyone to recognize that the book of Daniel, is all about Jesus. (Gal 6:14, Dan 11:32, John 17:3)

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[Leuko Petra]

It is essential for everyone to recognize that the book of Daniel, is all about Jesus. (Gal 6:14, Dan 11:32, John 17:3) ...

True:

Yea, the whole Book of Daniel is not about Prophecy [though it does marvelously contain it], not about Babylon [though it does contain it in several modes], not about Nebuchadnezzar or Kingdoms [though it does contain them], not even about Daniel or his three friends [though they are part of it], but rather the whole Book is about CHRIST JESUS, the very "GOD/LORD/MOST HIGH GOD" [throughout the Book of Daniel, ie see Daniel 9:4, compare to Exodus 20:6 and John 14:15, etc] of Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, and even later in life, Nebuchadnezzar...and it reveals the Love of HIM who is ever loving, ever watchful, ever interested, ever faithful, ever among HIS people and ever working on our behalf...

JESUS is seen as the "...Stone..." in [Daniel 2:35,45]

JESUS is seen as "...the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." in [Daniel 3:25]

JESUS is seen as "...[one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven,..." in [Daniel 7:13]

JESUS is seen as "...the Prince of the host..." in [Daniel 8:11]

JESUS is seen as "...the Prince of Princes..." in [Daniel 8:25]

JESUS is seen as "...MESSIAH the Prince..." and "...MESSIAH..." in [Daniel 9:25-26]

JESUS is seen as "...he..." who "...shall confirm the covenant ...with many..." in [Daniel 9:27]

JESUS is seen as "...a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins [were] girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also [was] like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude..." in [Daniel 10:5-6]

JESUS is seen as "...the prince of the covenant." [Daniel 11:22]

JESUS is seen as "...MICHAEL...", "...your Prince...", "...chief prince...", "...Great Prince which standeth for thy people..." in [Daniel 10:13,21, 12:1]

JESUS is seen as "...the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river..." [Daniel 12:6] and "... the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever..." [Daniel 12:7]

...and in the very life of Daniel Himself, consider the chapters inbetween, for Jesus is really see in Chapter 6, through Daniel in typology, and as Cyrus [he whose name means, the Glory of a Blazing Furnace, coming from the East, with a great and mighty army of immortals and drying up the Euphrates, delivering His [Jesus] people out of Babylon]; and in Daniel 9, the very answer to Daniels prayer [verily right in the middle of it] which was not merely immediate deliverance, but deliverance for us all, for the Cross of Christ Jesus, His Life and Sacrifice was given as the answer to all our prayers, the hope of redemption; and a great deal more, etc...

 

[Castaway57]

I like that list of texts where Jesus is found in the book of Daniel. Thank you for that contribution.I am going to keep that list and add to it as I find the texts.

 

[Castaway57]

I like that list of texts where Jesus is found in the book of Daniel. Thank you for that contribution.I am going to keep that list and add to it as I find the texts.

This is the list I was referring to, incase anyone missed itand was wondering what i was referring to here:

JESUS is seen as the "...Stone..." in [Daniel 2:35,45]

JESUS is seen as "...the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." in [Daniel 3:25]

JESUS is seen as "...[one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven,..." in [Daniel 7:13]

JESUS is seen as "...the Prince of the host..." in [Daniel 8:11]

JESUS is seen as "...the Prince of Princes..." in [Daniel 8:25]

JESUS is seen as "...MESSIAH the Prince..." and "...MESSIAH..." in [Daniel 9:25-26]

JESUS is seen as "...he..." who "...shall confirm the covenant ...with many..." in [Daniel 9:27]

JESUS is seen as "...a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins [were] girded with fine gold of Uphaz: His body also [was] like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude..." in [Daniel 10:5-6]

JESUS is seen as "...the prince of the covenant." [Daniel 11:22]

JESUS is seen as "...MICHAEL...", "...your Prince...", "...chief prince...", "...Great Prince which standeth for thy people..." in [Daniel 10:13,21, 12:1]

JESUS is seen as "...the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river..." [Daniel 12:6] and "... the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever..." [Daniel 12:7]

Jesus is of course pointed out in many other scriptures of Daniel, but this list is a good start.

 

[taikachanz]

As if Daniel is the only picture of Christ. The whole of the OT reveals Christ. That is not the issue on this tread.

 

[Castaway57]

As if Daniel is the only picture of Christ. The whole of the OT reveals Christ. That is not the issue on this tread.

Can you show us who said Daniel was the only picture of Christ and which post they said this in?

 

[taikachanz]

Can you show us who said Daniel was the only picture of Christ and which post they said this in?

Sorry for the sarcasm, it would appear that Leuko has been trying to high jack this thread and failing that he is now trying to side track it. I don't intend for this to happen. So please cooperate and keep on topic. TY

 

[Castaway57]

Sorry for the sarcasm, it would appear that Leuko has been trying to high jack this thread and failing that he is now trying to side track it. I don't intend for this to happen. So please cooperate and keep on topic. TY

I didnt know that it is classed as "not cooperating" when we ask a question to clarify something posted.

 

[taikachanz]

Lueko posted a list of scriptures that showed Christ in Daniel, after you mentioned that fact, off topic. In response I stated the fact that Christ is found throughout the entire OT, sarcastcally, of which I apologized, and then asked, politely that we stay on topic. Now, is that answer enough? Can we please stay on topic without all the rabbit trails?

 

[Castaway57]

Lueko posted a list of scriptures that showed Christ in Daniel, after you mentioned that fact, off topic. In response I stated the fact that Christ is found throughout the entire OT, sarcastcally, of which I apologized, and then asked, politely that we stay on topic. Now, is that answer enough? Can we please stay on topic without all the rabbit trails?

In the second post of this thread, YOU stated the following:

When an overview of Daniel 12 is conducted we find three important things"

1. The historical time period in which the prophecy is to take place.
2. That there are three time periods mentioned.
3. That there are two occurances that need to take place pertaining to these time periods.

And this is what I was replying to when I stated how that we must also remember that the main subject of the book of Daniel is Jesus. I feel that you missed that very important point in your opening remarks, and I really thought the list that Lueko provided was quite fitting for that point I made.

If you are going to insist that Jesus being the central topic of Daniel 12 is "off topic," then perhaps we have nothing further to discuss here. I hope you are not just here to "teach" us what we "really believe," because this forum is not a debate forum for that kind of purpose. Official Adventist beliefs teach that the book of Daniel is first and foremost about Jesus, and that includes any "overview" of Daniel 12. Infact, Daniel 12:1 mentions Jesus as the central Figure of all that comes after it. Thats why it isn't off topic for me to mention that fact, and for Lueko to back it up with scripture like he did.

It seems to me that you have a lot of RABBIT TRAIL RULES that the rest of us dont know about, and that we get surprised with as we go along.

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