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Revisiting Daniel 12

Discussion in 'Traditional Adventists-Discussion Zone' started by taikachanz, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. taikachanz

    taikachanz God's Word Stands Alone

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    For those of you who are looking into this thread I recommend you review the threads "Where is the Holy Place" and "Who was William Miller". These threads will give an understand of what is presented here, if they are not read this thread will make now sense and will appear as pure speculation.
     
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  2. taikachanz

    taikachanz God's Word Stands Alone

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    When an overview of Daniel 12 is conducted we find three important things"
    1. The historical time period in which the prophecy is to take place.
    2. That there are three time periods mentioned.
    3. That there are two occurances that need to take place pertaining to these time periods.

    We will discuss them in order:

    1. Daniel 1:

    "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time."

    When EGW wrote concerning the "time of trouble" is was almost always in reference to the last days just before the second advent of Christ thereby verifying the validity of Daniel twelve being the last chapter in human history. We find further evidence in the next verse:

    "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting live, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

    This matches perfectly with 1 Thes. 4:16-17:

    "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

    Look at what Jesus Himself says in John 6:39-40:

    "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of Him that sent me, that everyon which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

    And verse 55 from John 6:

    "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I shall raise him up at the last day."

    The resurrection of the faithful happens on the last day; undoubtedly, Daniel 12 is a description of the last day. To show further proof let's read Daniel 12:3:

    "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

    Here we see the promise of rewards for the faithful and true. And when do these rewards come?

    "And behold, I come quickly and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be."

    When do the rewards come? When Christ returns. And what day is that? The last day. The first three verses of Daniel attest to the fact that Daniel is being shown the final events in history (Daniel 10 - 11) and that Daniel 12 is the culmination of those events ending at the last day.

    Daniel is told to seal up these words till the time of the end, the time when these events are to occur. At that time will be revealed all that Daniel, himself, is wondering about concerning this prophecy.

    In verses 5 & 6 Daniel sees, in vision, a man clothed in linen who Daniel asks:

    "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?"

    The answer is immediately given and here we discover the first of 3 time periods in verse 7:

    "And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished."

    Time, times and an half. We commonly refer to this as 1260 days (year).

    Still not understanding Daniel again asks in Verse 8:

    "O my Lord, what shallbe the end of these things?"

    Again, in verse 9 he is told to seal up the book "till the time of the end."

    Now here is a telling verse. Question: Does God intend for us to understand this prophecy and if so does that include all the time periods therein? Verse 10 answers these questions.

    "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

    You see the wicked aren't supposed to understand what He reveals here, that's why they stay wicked. Only those who seek God, the wise, will fully understand this prophecy, ALL of this prophecy.

    Let us learn a lesson from 1 Kings 3:5-14:

    "In Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.
    And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before hee in truth, and in righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou gast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.
    And now, oh Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my fatherr: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
    And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
    Give therefore the servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
    And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
    And God said unto him, Because thoy hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches fot thyself, nor asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
    Behold, I have done according to thy words: Lo, I have given thee a wise and understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall arise like unto thee.
    And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days."

    Oh that we could be like King Solomon and pray, unselfishly with true intent, for wisdom to understand God's word and all the prophecies laid out in them. How blest we would be in his knowledge.

    He has promised to pour out His spirit upon us if only we, in faith, would ask. "Give me an understanding heart, oh Lord, that I may see in your word that which You desire to reveal." If only.

    to be continued
     
  3. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    If you may consider a moment with me please, and let us reassess the texts more closely, for in understanding Daniel 10-12, we must of necessity understand Daniel 8-9, as the two are linked...

    Please see the following - http://www.christianforums.com/t7694792/

    Daniel 12, the first portion [12:1-3] deals with the very ending events [Daniel 11:40-45, thus 12:1-3 connect], is chiastically sealed, and Daniel 12:4-13 deals with those other events leading up to these last things, and so reverts back to speaking about the 3 timeframes [1,260, 1,290, 1,335], which are under explanation in Daniel 11 [vs 30-40[a]]. They are already past 538-1798, 508-1798, 508-1843 [and the 2,300 ending in 1844, so 457 BC - AD 1844] and without any further fulfilments.

    In looking at Daniel 12:1, we see the close of probation as mentioned by these verses:

    Daniel 12:1 [Michael/Jesus stands up... intercession is over]; Luke 13:25 [Master of the House rises up and shuts to the door...]; James 5:9 [judge even at the doors], Matthew 24:33; Mark 13:29 [at the doors, signs thereof]; Revelation 22:11 [none more can enter], etc]...

    And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

    When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Luke 13:25

    But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37

    And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Luke 17:26

    The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. Genesis 6:11

    And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. Genesis 6:12

    And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Genesis 6:13

    “But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark...” Genesis 6:18;p

    And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Genesis 7:1

    “...as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.” Genesis 7:16;p

    Thus follows the Great Time of Trouble [though before it a smaller time of trouble]...

    ...leading all the way up into the Special Resurrection... as Daniel 12:2 is referring to it, and not the First Great Resurrection. We may know this from the language, using the words "many" and "some" and not "all".

    And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

    This verse is also related to Daniel 12:12

    Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Danmiel 12:12

    This is a special blessing upon those that come after that last time frame and is reiterated in Revelation 14:13. Everyone which faithuflly dies under the preaching of the third angels message will come up in the special resurrection. Those that did not die faithfully under this message, will come up in the Great Second resurrection... therefore, every single faithful seventh-day adventist that died in the faith, will come up in the special resurrection...

    This special Resurrection occurs just before [about a week] Jesus appears, and takes place as He is coming in the Clouds of Glory, that they may witness Him coming.

    Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13

    A generalized Sequence

    1. Daniel stands up (probation closes, GC 613)
    2. Time of Trouble (GC 613)
    3. God’s people delivered (GC 635-636)
    4. Special Resurrection (GC 637)

    Graves are opened, and "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth. . . awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angel's message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God's covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. "They also which pierced Him" (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christ's dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient. {GC 637.1}

    5. Voice of God announcing the hour

    The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus' coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people. Like peals of loudest thunder His words roll through the earth. The Israel of God stand listening, with their eyes fixed upward. Their countenances are lighted up with His glory, and shine as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory. {GC 640.2}

    6. Small black cloud [see Elijah]

    And I saw a flaming cloud come where Jesus stood. Then Jesus . . . took His place on the cloud which carried Him to the East, where it first appeared to the saints on earth--a small black cloud which was the sign of the Son of man. While the cloud was passing from the Holiest to the East, which took a number of days, the synagogue of Satan worshipped at the saints' feet. {Mar 287.8}

    Synagogue of Satan

    Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    7. General resurrection (GC 644)

    General Resurrection
    Amid the reeling of the earth, the flash of lightning, and the roar of thunder, the voice of the Son of God calls forth the sleeping saints. He looks upon the graves of the righteous, then, raising His hands to heaven, He cries: "Awake, awake, awake, ye that sleep in the dust, and arise!" Throughout the length and breadth of the earth the dead shall hear that voice, and they that hear shall live. And the whole earth shall ring with the tread of the exceeding great army of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. …

    All come forth from their graves the same in stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature but little below the Son of God. He presents a marked contrast to the people of later generations; in this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race. GC 644
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  4. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    I would like to make a small clarification upon this, as there are two resurrections being mentioned. A special resurreciton in Daniel 12:2, and the First Great in other, which relate to Revelation 20. For notice in 1 Thessalonians passage, it speaks of Christ Descending and then the Dead raising, this is the First Great. But the Daniel 12:2 passage, is different, in that this resurrection takes place before Jesus descends with the Shout, see the other verse already given in comparison. Also the very last "day" begins with the First Great Resurrection [all righteous who were not in the special], even lasting 1,000 years long, ending in the Second Resurrection [all wicked], as 2 Peter 3:8 a day with the Lord is as a 1,000 years. Therefore the First Great Resurrection is not at the same time as the Special, which the Special happens about a week of normal time before Jesus descends.

    This passage I believe is speaking of that First Great Resurrection and Translation of the Living Righeous [group mentioned in Revelation] as found in 1 Thesslonians, for this is that time which the "twinkling of an eye" takes place... immortality swallows up mortality...

    I would like to point to the previous events mentioned in Daniel 11, of which the latter portion of Daniel 12 refers, speaking of the times [1,260, 1,290, and 1,335, and even the ending of the 2,300], like Daniel 11:31,35,40[a].

    For instance:
    “9. Wasn't Daniel told to seal up his book until "the time of the end"? (Daniel 12:4) When will Daniel's prophecies be opened to our understanding?

    Answer: In Daniel 12:4, the prophet was told to seal parts of the book till "the time of the end." In verse 6 an angelic voice asked, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" Verse 7 says, "It shall be for a time, times, and an half." The angel assured Daniel that the section of the book dealing with end-time prophecies would be opened after the end of the 1260-year period of papal control which was, as we learned earlier in this Study Guide, 1798. So the time of the end began in the year 1798. Obviously, the book of Daniel contains crucial messages from heaven for us today. We absolutely must understand it.”

    “In Daniel 12:4, the prophet was told to seal parts of the book…”, and in looking at the text of Daniel 12:4 and so let us compare.


    Daniel 12:4 reads: “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Daniel 12:4 KJV

    Well, the first question we have to ask is, “What book?” Though Daniel in the compiled Scriptures [the Bible] are all “one” book, the Book of Daniel, in reality is multiple books, even with portions in them, and even Chapter and Verse Division came at a later date. We can see this in the way in which Daniel is written originally, in both language and structure.

    In language - the books of Daniel, and the texts of Daniel found amongst the dead-sea scrolls confirm this to perfect harmony, reveal that Daniel 1:1-2:4(a) are written in Hebrew and Daniel 2:4(b)-7:28 are written in Aramaic [Chaldee], and the last books of Daniel, Daniel 8:1-12:13 are again written in Hebrew.

    The structure of the books of Daniel are also helpful in understanding what is going on in Daniel 12 and what is meant by the words, “seal the book”. Therefore the first Major Book of Daniel is in two sections, the first Hebrew and latter Aramaic, but more than this it is structured in a Chisam [like an “x”, “v” or “^” shape, for instance section A,B,C,D then D1,C1,B1,A1] after the 7 Branch Candlestick of the Sanctuary of God. Notice with me please, the following basic structure inherent in the First portions of Daniel itself:

    Daniel 1 is the center candlestick, central theme.
    Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are the first corresponding branches [Kingdoms].
    Daniel 3 and Daniel 6 are the next corresponding branches [Trial/God’s People].
    Daniel 4 and Daniel 5 are the latter corresponding branches [Kings, One Saved, One Lost].

    Thus, imagine the tips of the candles forming on the candelabra:
    4321765


    Now that we have briefly looked at the first portion of Daniel, the latter portions of Daniel, Daniel 8:1-12:13 are a bit different, and yet can also be found to relay in similar fashion. But it is not merely structure, but also content that divides Daniel into portions. Some parts deal with Kingdoms, others Laws, and other parts with Time.

    Now, much of the information given to Daniel in the ‘chapters’ is understood immediately by Daniel as the Angel Gabriel or in other places God give the understanding of the various visions. However, though Daniel understood a great deal, he did not come to understand all of the things given, for it is written, “And I Daniel fainted, and was sick [certain] days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood [it].” Daniel 8:27 and this was in relationship to the 2,300 day/years [time] vision.

    Now the Angel Gabriel comes back to give understanding of the things seen in Daniel 8, in ‘chapters’ 9-12, see Daniel 9:22-23, 10:1,14; etc, but even with the explanation of these things revealed, Daniel still did not come to total understanding in the matters of the “time” portions of the prophecy and so he asks a question, “And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what [shall be] the end of these [things]?” Daniel 12:8

    Then comes the answer to his question, “And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” Daniel 12:9

    And therefore in Daniel 12:9 we see not all of Daniel was sealed but “…the words [are] closed up and sealed…”, and this is related to what is earlier stated in vs 4, “…shut up the words, and seal the book…”. But what was it related to? Time Prophecies, even specifically the 2,300 day/years of Daniel 8:14 and the 1,260 day/years and the 1,290 and 1335 of Daniel 12.

    That which was sealed is only the portions which were to be understood at a later time, “…the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Daniel 12:4 and “…none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.” Daniel 12:10.

    This is speaking about the “knowledge” of those portions of the Time prophecies in Daniel which before that point in time [“time of the end”] had been sealed and closed up, but after the time prophecies of Daniel were coming to their close, they would then begin to be understood.


    Daniel itself is even the sister ‘book’ of Revelation, for in Revelation 10, we see those portions in Daniel now opened:

    “And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth,” Revelation 10:2, see also “little book” in Revelation 10:8,9,10, and in the Greek text it is “βιβλαρίδιον” [Biblaridion] and it means the small book, or portion of something large, not a whole book. For instance we would say that the Bible is the [Greek] Byblos, the Book, but is it really just One book? It is a special and very unique Book [a cohesive whole], but it is also many little books, having portions within portions and so each portion is a little book in it.

    “And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:” Revelation 10:6

    This is directly speaking to those “words” of the “little book” which was in Daniel “sealed”, but are now “open” which deal with the specific “time” prophecies, as already given.

    This is the 1,260 year timeframe given multiple times in Scripture, 7 openly, and 2 others more veiled:

    as found in Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5[and consider also Luke 21:24;p"...trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."andRevelation 11:2;p"...given unto the Gentiles..."]

    ...all which refer to the same timeframe - AD 538 - AD 1798, and to no other timeframe thereafter.

    Let me know what you think, ok?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  5. taikachanz

    taikachanz God's Word Stands Alone

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    Petra, the very Hypothesis you present is the very Hypothesis which Miller presented and which we now know is incorrect on the very basis of his conclusion that Christ would return again and this did not happen. Review once more the thread "Who was William Miller?", it is explained there. His own rules demand a complete reconsideration of Daniel twelve, as I am doing here.

    As to the three time periods mentioned in Daniel twelve, found in Daniel 12:7, 11-12, we see that these are incremental times, each increasing in its order. Remember also that I proposed that time prophecies are linear and must stay true to that linearity to be understood correctly. As you pointed out, Miller's original Hypothesis stated that the 1290 portion to the prophecy was fulfilled first with a start date of 508 AD, then came the 1260 portion ending in 1789 and lastly the 1335 ending in 1843/1844. He places, out of sequence the 1290 and the 1260 portions thus violating the sequence and the linearity. If we allow this then we must also allow that those who take the last 7 years of the 490 year portion from the 2300 days prophecy and placed in it as some future point to be fulfllled may be correct, and we know that that is simply not correct as Christ and His disciples fulfilled that portion. What is true for one time prophecy must be true for all. God is consistant in all things and does not change.

    In addition, William Miller made the assumption that both the time periods that total 1260 days found in the 2300 days prophecy and in Daniel 12 are the same time period. If Daniel 7, 8, & 9 is a different prophecy than Daniel 12 then the two 1260 day time periods are different and only pertain to those prophecies in which they are mentioned and therefore have different start dates.


    So, let us now consider these time periods and the triggers that initiate the start of the countdown in Daniel 12.

    There were two things that were to occur for these time period to start ticking off.

    1. The taking away of the daily (sacrifice)
    2. The setting up of the abomination of desolation

    It was generally taught, and was understood, that the word "sacrifice" was added to scripture, in Daniel 12, by the translator, indicated by italization. And to this I agree, it was not necessary, neither were most of the other italized word. However, when we consider the context and whom it was the angel of God was talking to and how he, Daniel, would have understood this the conclusion must be that it was the sacrifice, for several reasons:

    1. There was only one thing that happened of religious importance on a daily bases in the temple, the sacrifices for individual sins.
    2. It pointed to the promise of a restored temple in Jerusalem
    3. It reafirms the prophecy of completion presented in the 490 days (year) prophecy.

    Ok, so when did this occur? There two choices and both will fit because the countdown cannot begin until the fulfillment of the second occurance:

    1. At the time when Christ was crucified and the veil was rent in twain. (This is my choice)
    2. At the time the Romans came and destroyed the temple in 70 AD. (I believe this was punishment of God again the apostate Jews for rejecting Christ and the ultimate "taking away" of the sacrifices because they were an outright slap in the face to God, ultimate disobedience.)

    This requirement being fulfilled let's continue to the abomination of desolation.

    Now let's consider, how many abominations of desolation are there? I know that it is mentioned three times in the book of Daniel, but how many of them are there actually? If we understand EGW's writing correctly and we agree with William Miller's conclusion then there has to be more than one, for EGW teaches that the banners that were "set up" around the temple ground (she said that this was the Holy Place) constituted the abomination of desolation. Yet, William Miller states that the abomination of desolation is the Papacy, which was finally "set up" in 538 AD (He made claim that the "Holy Place" was the church). Part of the misunderstanding of Daniel 12 comes from this very issue, not knowing, fully, where the "Holy Place" is. This is way I gave a partical presentation on the Holy Place earlier on. If you have not reviewed it I suggest you do so before continuing on.

    To come to a full understanding of the "Holy Place" we need to place ourselves in the shoes of Daniel and the Disciples, remember: Jesus pointed to the writings of Daniel when He was explaining the end time events to the disciples. It is also through Jesus that we understand where the abomination of desolation is to be set up:

    "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whosoever readeth, let him understand:)" Matt. 24:15

    Notice, no where in Daniel do you find where the abomination is to be "set up", it mentions setting up, but not where. Jesus tells us where and He also refers to it as already standing. Does this suggest banners or a more permanent structure?

    So, if we place ourselves in Daniel's and the disciples' shoes where would we have been taught the location of the Holy Place was? If we stick to the scripture than, as I have shown, the "Holy Place" is the Courtyard of the tabernacle of the congregation where the sacrifices are conducted and not some generalized area surrounding the templeand therefore neither the banners placed around the temple outside the temple mount nor the spiritual location of the leadership of the church fit this discription. Yes, I know I am going against what Adventists teach concerning this, but I reiterate, William Miller's teaching on this point was invalidated when Jesus failed to come when Miller predicted He would.

    Here is another point. The Ottoman Empire was predicted to fall in Daniel 11, in what year did this happen? Was it before or after 1844? If Daniel 12 is the culmination of Daniel 10 & 11 then the time count still continues because it was after 1844 that the Ottoman Empire ceased to exist.

    We find further evidence when we consider the creation and God's original plan for man on this earth. Ask yourself, does God have a holy place on earth? Almost everyone will say no. I say almost everyone because I say "yes". And why, because the Bible tells me so.

    Look at Genesis, God planted a garden and in this garden He placed the Tree of Life and man. And what happened between man and God before the fall? It was here that God communed with man on a weekly basis. Was the garden a holy place? I would go further, it was God's holy place on earth. And what has God been doing since the fall? He has been trying to bring man back to that holy place. The very area that God planted the garden is the very area He promise to give to Abram, Isaac and Jacob. It is the very area He intended the Israelites go after He brought them out of Egypt. It is the very area Israel occupied for centuries before and after the Babylonian captivity. And it is the very area the the New Jerusalem is to be located when Jesus and all the saints return after the 1000 years have past. Does God have a Holy Place on earth... oh yes, he does and it is in the same place it has always been. And it is the place Satan desires to occupy and occupies today in the form of a false religion. Its edifice stands tall, in mockery to God's power and love, in the Holy Place, in the Courtyard of the Tabernacle of the Congregation. It is called the Dome of the Rock. The second part of the start requirement came to pass in 688 AD.

    Every time prophecy ends with a significant event relating to God's people, where good or bad. Here then are those events in relation to the start date of 688 AD

    688 + 1260 = 1948 : Israel is recognized as a nation once again
    688 + 1290 = 1978 : Pope John Paul II becomes Pope
    688 + 1335 = 2023 : Jesus Christ returns to gather His saints


    Miller, as well as others, denied that Israel would ever become a nation again, yet it exists today. Albeit, it is questionable if those who settled in Palestine are blood decendents of the true line, Israel does exist.

    If you research JPII you will find that he was the most influencial pope in the history of the papacy. He travelled out of Rome more often, visited more world leaders, propegated (sp) (with great success) the unity of world religions to the point that he was venerated by ALL religions all over the world. He helped bring down empire while establishing others. In other word, he was the force the brought back much of the power of the Roman Church that was lost in 1798. And because of his efforts we are seeing the fruits of his labor today.

    So, if all that I have presented is correct the only conclusion is that we have approximately 10 years remaining.

    There is more to review, because prophecy is also shown in the feast days that God required of the Israelites. Each feast day represents a prophetic occurance that Jesus Himself has fulfilled. Ironically, not only did He fulfill them, he fulfilled them on the day they were to be conducted.
    This too William Miller understood, and misapplied to the 2300 days prophecy, when it should have been applied to the Daniel 12 prophecy.

    I'll let you research this one for yourselves.

    If all that I've presented is accurate then we have but a short time. 10 years goes by fast. We cannot neglect what God has given us. You have a choice to make. Accept or refuse. Before you refuse I encourage you to look into this for yourself. Dig deep, don't just read writing of EGW in the manner that you have done in the past, read them and study them in the chronological order in which they were written, you will be surprised at what you discover, I was.

    Study the history behind William Miller's beliefs. Learn what his philosophy was concerning all the prophecies, not just what was in Daniel. Get to know the man's strengths and his weaknesses.

    But most of all, open your Bibles and search out the truth, all that God wants us to know is there. He has made a multitude of promises and He will keep them, we just need to claim them. Ask and it will be given, so ask for the most precious gift, after salvation, wisdom to understand His prophetic word. Do not close your mind because of previous learning. The Jews did that and look what happened to them. Be like the Bereans and not like the Thessalonians, search to see if these things are true.

    One last thing, if this is correct we have but one course of action:

    "Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, when I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:
    If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;
    The whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; it the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.
    He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.
    But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any perso from among them, he is taken away inquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
    So thou, oh son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word of my mouth, and warn them for me."

    The trumpet is sounding, the warning is going out. If I be wrong let the punishment be mine. If I be right, then Lord oh God, let this be known to all.

    Consider what Gamaliel said to the Sanhedrian in Acts 5:33-40

    "When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
    Then stood there up one in the council, a pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, (this was Saul's ((Paul')) mentor) had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
    And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
    For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
    After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
    And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought.
    But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God."

    If I am wrong this will die away, if I am right and God is working in this then there is nothing anyone can do to keep this from going out to all who wish to know.

    May God Keep and protect all who read and understand. Amen
     
  6. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Taikachanz, you are in great danger. Those dates are deadly deception.

    You presently have several misunderstandings.

    When Israel [was] a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.- Hosea 11:1

    And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.- Matthew 2:15

    Anyone
    "in Christ Jesus"(Romans 3:24, 8:1-2,39; 1 Corinthians 1:2,30, 4:15; Galatians 3:26,28, 6:15; Ephesians 2:6,13, 3:11; 1 Thessalonians 2:14; 2 Timothy 1:1)is a True Jew [James 1:1], is indeed "Israel"[John 1:47; 1 Peter 2:22; Revelation 14:5], after the Spirit:

    “For allthe promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen..."- 2 Corinthians 1:20

    Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.- Acts 4:12

    ...for a Christian
    (Matthew 16:24; John 8:11),

    ...is not of the flesh which cannot receive the spirit
    (Matthew 21:19, 23:38; Acts 13:46),

    ...but is of the spirit
    (Romans 2:28-29, 9:6-8; Galatians 4:29),

    ...and bringing forth the fruits thereof
    (Matthew 21:43; 1 Corinthians 7:19),

    ...obeying Him in His Commandments
    (Acts 5:32; Hebrews 5:9)and,

    ...is indeed a child and a seed of Abraham, of faith
    (Galatians 3:7, 29),

    ...cut and grafted into the True Vine
    (Romans 11:17-24,30-32),

    ...of the spiritual circumcision made without hands keeping the Commandments
    (1 Corinthians 7:19; Colossians 2:11),

    ...a Spiritual Jew or Israel after the Spirit
    (Romans 2:29),

    ...and the Everlasting Covenant made only with them
    (Jeremiah 31:31,33; Ezekiel 36:26-27; Hebrews 8:8,10, 10:16).


    Also, please consider the following:

    “The experience of the disciples who preached the “gospel of the kingdom” at the first advent of Christ, has its counterpart in the experience of those who proclaimed the message of his second advent. As the disciples went out preaching, “The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand,” so Miller and his associatesproclaimed that the longest and last prophetic period brought to view in the Bible was about to expire, that the Judgment was at hand, and the everlasting kingdom was to be ushered in. The preaching of the disciples in regard to time was based on the seventy weeks of Daniel 9. The message given by Miller and his associatesannounced the termination of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, of which the seventy weeks form a part. The preaching of each was based upon the fulfillment of a different portion of the same great prophetic period.”[The Great Controversy 1888; Page 351], see also [Life Sketches Manuscript, Page 111]

    What was the "longest and last prophetic period brought to view in the Bible"? When did it end?

    Going back to the "daily":

    Let us consider this "daily":

    "daily" [English KJV, especially in connection with Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31, 12:11; please note that in various translations, the word [sacrifice] or something akin, is always added and not in the original Hebrew, it was originally meant as an help, but today is abused], in Hebrew [Strong's H8548] תָּמִיד - tamiyd, meaning "1) continuity, perpetuity, to stretch; a) continually, continuously (as adverb);b) continuity (subst)" [Strong's Concordance], utilized in the KJV AV 104 times — continually 53, continual 26, daily 7, always 6, alway 4, ever 3, perpetual 2, continual employment 1, evermore 1, never 1.

    Taken from Strong's Concordance and E-Sword King James Concordance app-

    "continually" - 53
    Exodus 28:29,30, 29:38;
    Leviticus 24:2,3,4, 24:8;
    2 Samuel 9:7,13;
    1 Kings 10:8;
    2 Kings 4:9, 25:29;
    1 Chronicles 16:6,11,37,40, 23:31;
    2 Chronicles 9:7, 24:14;
    Psalms 34:1, 35:27, 38:17, 40:11,16, 50:8, 69:23, 70:4, 71:3,6, 72:15, 74:23, 109:15,19, 199:44,109,117;
    Proverbs 6:21;
    Isaiah 21:8, 49:16, 51:13, 52:5, 60:11, 65:3;
    Jeremiah 6:7, 52:33;
    Ezekiel 46:14;
    Hosea 12:6;
    Obadiah 1:16;
    Nahum 3:19;
    Habakkuk 1:17

    "continual" - 26
    Exodus 29:42;
    Numbers 4:7, 28:3,6,10,15,23,24,31, 29:11,16,19,22,25,28,31,34,38;
    2 Kings 25:30;
    2 Chronicles 2:4;
    Ezra 3:5;
    Nehemiah 10:33 (2 times);
    Proverbs 15:15;
    Jeremiah 52:34;
    Ezekiel 46:15

    "daily" - 7
    Numbers 4:16, 29:6;
    Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31, 12:11

    "always" - 6
    Exodus 27:20, 28:38;
    Deuteronomy 11:12;
    Psalms 16:8;
    Proverbs 5:19;
    Ezekiel 38:8

    "alway" - 4
    Exodus 25:30;
    Numbers 9:16;
    2 Samuel 9:10;
    Proverbs 28:14

    "ever" - 3
    Leviticus 6:13;
    Psalms 25:15, 51:3

    "perpetual" - 2
    Exodus 30:8;
    Leviticus 6:20

    "continual employment" - 1
    Ezekiel 39:14

    "evermore" - 1
    Psalms 105:4

    "never" - 1
    Isaiah 62:6

    Let us consider this use of the "daily" in the context of the Sanctuary services and of the Priests [Cohen], as we shall see that there was to be the "daily" ministration in the Courtyard [where the "Altar of Burnt Offering [Sacrifice]" was] and there was the "daily" ministration in the Holy Place [where the 7 Branch Candlestick, Table of Shewbread and Altar of Incense were], each with a differing work to be done.

    What is the context of Hebrews 10:11-12 speaking of in its use of the "daily" services, the Courtyard or the Holy Place?



    It is obvious that the only answer can be, of the Courtyard, since the entire context ["every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices" and "he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever"] deals with the "sacrifice" portion of the "priest", which took place in the Courtyard upon the "altar of burnt offering [sacrifice]" [Leviticus 4:10]. This "sacrifice" portion of the "priest" was/is complete, and fulfills all the type pointing to it, but more was yet to be done further in the work done in the Heavenly Holy Place upon Jesus' ascension there [becoming our Great High Priest], and at yet an even further future point, upon His moving into the Heavenly Most Holy from the Heavenly Holy Place.

    Let us consider these things further, the "daily" further and this passage a bit more, since there has been confusion in the past both from without and within.


    There were multiple "daily" [continual/perpetual/daily/cyclical] things to do in the service of the whole Sanctuary [of which Daniel was fully aware], as it is written, "...ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary..." [Hebrews 9:1].

    There was the "daily" service which took place in the Courtyard, with all of the "burnt offerings" which took place at various times according to the events, but in general there was a "burnt offering" and/or "lamb" and/or "meat offering" "day by day" [Exodus 29:38] in both the "evening" [Exodus 29:39,41; Numbers 28:4,8; 1 Chronicles 16:40; Ezra 3:3,4] and the "morning" [Exodus 29:39,41; Numbers 28:4,8; 1 Chronicles 16:40; Ezra 3:3,4; Ezekiel 46:13,14,15] times, besides all of the other times [Exodus 29:38-42; Leviticus 6:12,13,20; Numbers 4:16; 28:2-10,14-15, 23-24,31, 29:6,11,16,19,22,25,28,31,34,38; 1 Chronicles 16:40, 23:28-31; 2 Chronicles 24:14; Ezra 3:2-5; Nehemiah 10:33; Psalms 50:8; Ezekiel 46:14-16].

    Was this Courtyard service the only "daily" service to do? No.

    There was also the "daily" service which took place in the Holy Place of the Tabernacle/Sanctuary behind the first veil, wherein "...[was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread..." [Hebrews 9:2] and also having the "altar of incense" [Exodus 30:27].

    In Exodus 25:30, we see that "the table" [Exodus 35:13, 39:36], the "table of shewbread", "shewbread table" [2 Chronicles 29:18], "the tables whereon the shewbread [was set]" [2 Chronicles 4:19], the "pure table" [2 Chronicles 13:11]; the "table of gold" [1 Kings 7:48] was to be "set upon" "alway" ["continually/perpetually/daily"] with the "continual shewbread" [Numbers 4:3,7; 2 Chronicles 2:4], set "before the LORD" [1 Samuel 21:6] which was replaced/refreshed every week's end on the 7th Day Sabbath of the Lord thy God [Leviticus 25:4-9; 1 Samuel 21:6; 1 Chronicles 9:32], even as Numbers 4:7 and 1 Samuel 21:3-6 [see also Matthew 12:3-4; Mark 2:25-26; Luke 6:3-4 in conjunction] verifies.

    In fact, the Highpriest [Aaron] was in type to wear a mitre with a golden plackard, "continually", and was to bear "the names of the Children of Israel" [Exodus 28:29] upon Himself when He "goeth in unto the Holy [place]" [Exodus 28:29], "before the LORD" [Exodus 28:30].

    But also in the Holy Place, besides the changing of the Shewbread on the 7th day, every week "continually", there was also to be the "daily" [day by day; perpetually] service/upkeep of the "Oil", "Lamp" and "Incense" [Exodus 27:20,21, 30:1-10; Leviticus 24:2-4] and these too were to happen from "evening" [Exodus 27:21, 30:7] to "morning" [Exodus 27:21, 30:8].

    Even moreso, in the wilderness wanderings, before entering into the Promised Land, The Son of God was "alway" [daily; Numbers 9:16] in the Pillar of Cloud/Fire [Numbers 9:15,16,21], in both the "evening" [Numbers 9:15,16,21] and the "morning" [Numbers 9:15,16,21].

    As an additional insight, we also see that David, later in time, had set up priest muscians to minster "continually" [1 Chronicles 16:6,37] "before the Ark" as "every day's work required".

    There are clearly two services dealing with the "daily".

    Which "daily" [Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31, 12:11] does Daniel then speak of, in regards to the vision of the "evenings and mornings" [Daniel 8:13-14,26]?

    The "daily" of the "Courtyard", or the "daily" or the "Holy Place"?

    It is the "Daily" services/ministrations of the Holy Place of the Heavenly Tabernacle, since the placement of the "daily" in the "vision" reveals that the things take place long after the ascension of Jesus Christ into Heaven itself, and had already begun His High Priestly ministration there after Pentecost, and was happening long after the "sacrifice" [on earth, the Courtyard] was made.

     
  7. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    There is no 2,520 [1,260 + 1,260] in scripture. See the previous reply also:

    “The experience of the disciples who preached the “gospel of the kingdom” at the first advent of Christ, has its counterpart in the experience of those who proclaimed the message of his second advent. As the disciples went out preaching, “The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of God is at hand,” so Miller and his associates proclaimed that the longest and last prophetic period brought to view in the Bible was about to expire, that the Judgment was at hand, and the everlasting kingdom was to be ushered in. The preaching of the disciples in regard to time was based on the seventy weeks of Daniel 9. The message given by Miller and his associates announced the termination of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, of which the seventy weeks form a part. The preaching of each was based upon the fulfillment of a different portion of the same great prophetic period.”[The Great Controversy 1888; Page 351], see also [Life Sketches Manuscript, Page 111]

    AD 1844 was the last, see Revelation 10, in conjunciton with Daniel 12 in the previous reply.

    I am going to leave several links which show this beyond question, and if any particular point would like to be raised let us go to the text and see for ourselves:

    http://secretsunsealed.org/Downloads/2520ProphecyDLemon.pdf

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/158583519/Refuting-the-2520-Day-for-a-Year-Time-Prophecy

    http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2012/05/2520-prophecy-by-steve-wohlberg-2520-is.html

    http://www.weaffirmsda.com/the-2520-time-prophecy/steve-wohlberg-comments-on-the-2520-prophecy

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6105638/The-2520

    http://www.thesourcehh.org/pdf/Contributors%20Documents/Gerhard%20Pfandl/Evaluation%20of%20Jeff%20Pippenger.pdf

    http://www.adventistonline.com/forum/topics/why-the-2520-prophecy-is-not-important-by-dwayne-lemon

    http://endrtimes.blogspot.com/2013/04/steve-wohlberg-and-2520-prophecy.html

    I also recommend Steve Wholberg's 2,520 - White Horse Media - Products >> Bible Prophecy >> Prophecy's Blind Date: 2520

    Again, scripture confirms that each of the 1,260 are the exact same time period:

    This is the 1,260 year timeframe given multiple times in Scripture, 7 openly, and 2 others more veiled:

    as found in Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,14, 13:5 [and consider also Luke 21:24;p"...trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."andRevelation 11:2;p"...given unto the Gentiles..."]

    ...all which refer to the same timeframe - AD 538 - AD 1798, and to no other timeframe thereafter.

    When studying Daniel and Revelation together, these all overlap one another, in language and structure. There is no secondary 1,260.

    Additionally, the 5th and 6th Trumpets are generally misunderstood by the majority of the remnant, which have not studied for themselves and are still clinging to an erroneous conclusion [Ottomon/Turks/Islam], generally fostered by SN Haskell, prevalent in the written literature, which has a strange mixture of symbolic/literalism. It fails upon several points. We can discuss this also, as the symbols therein are Babylonian [dealing with Papal Rome].

    Daniel 11, does not picture the fall of the Ottoman empire, and does not even touch upon it.

    There are numerous reasons why Ottoman, etc or Islam is not in focus in either Daniel or Revelation.

    We can start with the word "daily" itself, and please see the previous post, and also consider what the messenger of the Lord also said, quite clearly.

    Now, having done that, let us consider how many times that Ellen G White, in all of her writings, mentions this so-called 2,520 day prophecy...

    ...it comes up “0” times. Look for yourself, that ought to tell us something.

    Additionally:

    “I saw that we must wake up, wake, and cry earnestly for the arm of the Lord to be revealed. It is fatal to sleep now. Time is almost finished. I saw that it was a shame for us to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering time; for if God does no more for us now than He did then, we shall never be gathered. In the scattering, Israel were torn and smitten, but now God will bind up and heal them.

    I saw that God had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people. They are these who have been covered up in the “rubbish” since 1844. I saw that efforts to spread the truth should now be put forth, such as in 1843 and 1844. In the scattering, efforts to spread the truth had but little effect—accomplished but little or nothing—but now in the gathering time, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect; and all should be zealous and united in the work. I saw that a paper was needed, and all should feel interested in it.

    I saw that the truth should be made plain upon tables, that the earth and the fullness thereof is the Lord’s, and that necessary means should not be spared to make it plain. I saw that the old chart was directed by the Lord, and that not a figure of it should be altered except by inspiration. I saw that the figures of the chart were as God would have them, and that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none should see it till His hand was removed.

    I saw that the two-horned beast had a dragon’s mouth, and that his power was in his head, and that the decree would go out of his mouth. Then I saw the Mother of Harlots; that the mother was not the daughters, but separate and distinct from them. She has had her day, and it is past, and her daughters, the Protestant sects, were the next to come on the stage and act out the same mind that the mother had when she persecuted the saints. I saw that as the mother has been declining in power, the daughters had been growing, and soon they will exercise the power once exercised by the mother.

    I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure people, little known to the Catholics; but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hated us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people; that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday.” - Spalding and Magan Collection, Page 1 [Link]
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  8. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Now let us look at this so-called Islam/Muslim thing, which is also incorrect on several fronts.

    Now as for the Muslim/Islam thing from scripture there is much to say in regards to its absence in Daniel 11:4-45, 12:1-3, but that it not yet needed here, however...

    ...let us consider the Muslim/Islam thing from the SoP, of which I have looked at each of these references:

    [Quotations from Wikipedia, various]

    [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad
    [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca
    [3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina
    [4]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hejaz
    [5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

    Why Islam/Muslims [etc] fail the Biblical test of “King of the South”.

    Searching the complete writings of sister Ellen G. White, messenger of the Lord, we find the following:

    [1] “Mohammed”, returns “1” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), which is a reference page added in later editions, not in the original manuscript of The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White. Notice the direction of the people, it is the “Eastern” and not “Southern”. Here is the paragraph quotation “Page 335. Fall of the Ottoman Empire.—The impact of Moslem Turkey upon Europe after the fall of Constantinople in 1453 was as severe as had been the catastrophic conquests of the Moslem Saracens, during the century and a half after the death of Mohammed, upon the Eastern Roman Empire. Throughout the Reformation era, Turkey was a continual threat at the Eastern gates of European Christendom; the writings of the Reformers are full of condemnation of the Ottoman power. Christian writers since have been concerned with the role of Turkey in future world events, and commentators on prophecy have seen Turkish power and its decline forecast in Scripture.”

    [2] “Mohammedan”, returns “0” times.

    [3] “Mohammedans”, returns “0” times.

    Other variations of “Mohammed”,
    [A] “Mahomet”, returns “0” times.
    “Mahometan”, returns “0” times.
    [c] “Mahometans”, returns “0” times.
    [D] “Muhammad”, returns “0” times.
    [E] “Muhammadan”, returns “0” times.
    [F] “Muhammadans”, returns “0” times.
    [G] “Mohammad”, returns “0” times.
    [H] “Mohammadan”, returns “0” times.
    “Mohammadans”, returns “0” times.


    [4] “Moslem”, returns “1” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), which is a reference page added in later editions, not in the original manuscript of The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White. Here is the paragraph quotation “Page 335. Fall of the Ottoman Empire.—The impact of Moslem Turkey upon Europe after the fall of Constantinople in 1453 was as severe as had been the catastrophic conquests of the Moslem Saracens, during the century and a half after the death of Mohammed, upon the Eastern Roman Empire. Throughout the Reformation era, Turkey was a continual threat at the Eastern gates of European Christendom; the writings of the Reformers are full of condemnation of the Ottoman power. Christian writers since have been concerned with the role of Turkey in future world events, and commentators on prophecy have seen Turkish power and its decline forecast in Scripture.”

    [5] “Moslems”, returns “0” times.

    Other variations of “Moslem”,
    [A] “Muslim”, returns “0” times.
    “Muslims”, returns “0” times.
    [c] “Musulman”, returns “0” times.
    [D] “Mussulman”, returns “0” times.
    [E] “Muselman”, returns “0” times.
    [F] “Musselman”, returns “0” times.

    [6] “Islam”, returns “0” times.

    [7] “Islamic”, returns “0” times.

    [8] “Arab”, returns “0” times.

    [9] “Arabic”, returns “0” times.

    [10] “Arabia”, returns “42” times – [1] YI November 15, 1900, par. 7, [2] From Eternity Past, p. 170.4 (1), [3] The Truth About Angels, p. 89.2 (1), [4] The Truth About Angels, p. 229.3 (1), [5] Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 33.3 (1), [6] Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 34.1 (1), [7] Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 35.3 (1), [8] Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 190.4 (1), [9] The Story of Redemption, p. 274.3 (1), [10] The Story of Redemption, p. 275.1 (1), [11] The Story of Redemption, p. 277.1 (1), [12] Prophets and Kings, p. 192.2 (1), [13] From Trials to Triumph, p. 67.3 (1), [14] From Trials to Triumph, p. 68.3 (1), [15] Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 247.1 (1), [16] S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 6, p. 1058.8 (1), [17] Education, p. 65.3 (1), [18] The Acts of the Apostles, p. 125.2 (1), [19] The Acts of the Apostles, p. 128.2 (1), [20] The Spirit of Prophecy Volume 4, p. 498.6 (1), [21] The Spirit of Prophecy Volume 3, p. 318.2 (1), [22] The Spirit of Prophecy Volume 3, p. 318.3 (1), [23] The Spirit of Prophecy Volume 3, p. 320.2 (1), [24] Sons and Daughters of God, p. 96.3 (1), [25] Conflict and Courage, p. 340.1 (1), [26] Conflict and Courage, p. 340.2 (1), [27] Conflict and Courage, p. 340.3 (1), [28] ST February 19, 1880, Art. A, par. 2, [29] ST March 10, 1881, par. 6, [30] ST July 20, 1904, par. 1, [31] AUCR March 25, 1907, par. 9, [32] RH December 28, 1905, par. 16, [33] RH March 30, 1911, Art. A, par. 7, [34] RH March 30, 1911, Art. A, par. 8, [35] RH December 18, 1913, par. 10, [36] Redemption: or the Ministry of Peter and the Conversion of Saul, p. 50.1 (1), [37] Redemption: or the Ministry of Peter and the Conversion of Saul, p. 50.2 (1), [38] Redemption: or the Ministry of Peter and the Conversion of Saul, p. 52.1 (1), [39] True Education, p. 43.3 (1), [40] The Beginning of the End, p. 119.5 (1), [41] Unlikely Leaders, p. 47.6 (1), [42] Unlikely Leaders, p. 48.5 (1).

    [11] “Arabian”, returns “18” times – [1] From Splendor to Shadow, p. 276.4 (1), [2] Child Guidance, p. 47.5 (1), [3] Christian Service, p. 173.1 (1), [4] Prophets and Kings, p. 532.4 (1), [5] Prophets and Kings, p. 635.1 (1), [6] Education, p. 100.2 (1), [7] Counsels for the Church, p. 208.1 (1), [8] My Life Today, p. 112.3 (1), [9] Lift Him Up, p. 68.7 (1), [10] Conflict and Courage, p. 340 (1), [11] ST March 4, 1880, par. 1, [12] ST December 6, 1883, par. 2, [13] ST December 13, 1883, par. 1, [14] ST June 22, 1888, par. 2, [15] SW March 22, 1904, par. 2, [16] SW April 12, 1904, par. 1, [17] A Place Called Oakwood, p. 96.1 (1), [18] Royalty and Ruin, p. 189.3 (1).

    [12] “Arabians”, returns “11” times – [1] From Splendor to Shadow, p. 113.3 (1), [2] Testimony Treasures Volume 1, p. 430.2 (1), [3] Prophets and Kings, p. 213.3 (1), [4] The Spirit of Prophecy Volume 3, p. 267.1 (1), [5] Testimonies for the Church Volume 3, p. 571.3 (1), [6] RH January 28, 1875, par. 5, [7] RH July 6, 1886, par. 5, [8] RH July 28, 1903, par. 8, [9] RH January 22, 1914, par. 5, [10] The Removal to Washington, p. 27.2 (1), [11] Royalty and Ruin, p. 76.6 (1).

    [13] “Mecca”, returns “1” times – [1] Ellen G. White: Volume 2—The Progressive Years: 1862-1876, By Arthur L. White, p. 221.2 (57), and is a colloquial use of the word seen in this paragraph “Then Dr. M. G. Kellogg, who had resided in California for eight years, made a visit. Just before coming to Greenville, he had received his diploma as a physician and surgeon from Dr. Trall’s Medical School, at Florence Heights, New Jersey (Ibid., April 28, 1868). The roomy White home in Greenville was becoming a sort of mecca in northern Michigan. The visit was “most agreeable,” wrote James White. “The harmony between what the Lord has revealed relative to this subject, and science, has been a theme of most interesting conversation, and mutual profit.”—Ibid.”

    ...to be continued...
     
  9. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    [14] “Meccan”, returns “0” times.

    [15] “Medina”, returns “0” times.

    [16] “Jihad”, returns “0” times.

    [17] “Jihadist”, returns “0” times.

    [18] “Jihadists”, returns “0” times.

    [19] “Jihadism”, returns “0” times.

    [20] “Terrorist”, returns “0” times.

    [21] “Terrorists”, returns “0” times.

    [22] “Terrorism”, returns “1” times – [1] Darkness Before Dawn, p. 1.2 (1), and is seen here of 'political terrorism' “How will it all end? How will the political terrorism, and violence, the greed and materialism, the steady erosion of moral values, the drug use, the aids virus, the starvation and filling-how will all these critical problems be resolved? Where can we find answers to these serious questions? Not in the tabloid newspapers or on the TV talk shows. Political leaders-even spiritual leaders-seem to have no answers to these vital issues. But God’s word, the Bible, pulls aside the curtain and reveals that our world is involved in a cosmic struggle between good and evil.”

    [23] “Qur'an”, returns “0” times.

    [24] “Qur'ans”, returns “0” times.

    [25] “Qur'anic”, returns “0” times.

    Other variations of “Qur'an”,
    [A] “Koran”, returns “0” times.
    “Korans”, returns “0” times.
    [c] “Koranic”, returns “0” times.
    [D] “Quran”, returns “0” times.
    [E] “Qurans”, returns “0” times.
    [F] “Quranic”, returns “0” times.
    [G] “Al-Coran”, returns “0” times.
    [H] “Coran”, returns “0” times.
    “Corans”, returns “0” times.
    [J] “Coranic”, returns “0” times.
    [K] “Kuran”, returns “0” times.
    [L] “Kurans”, returns “0” times.
    [M] “Kuranic”, returns “0” times.
    [N] “Al-Qur'an”, returns “0” times.
    [O] “Al-Koran”, returns “0” times.

    [26] “Holy War”, returns “4” times – [1] YI June 29, 1899, par. 8, [2] Temperance, p. 236.1 (1), [3] A Call to Medical Evangelism and Health Education, p. 38.2 (1), [4] Gospel Temperance Work, p. 9.3 (1)and in each paragraph referenced, the words are used only in the context of diet and temperance, even the “...holy war against appetite and lust”.

    [27] “Saracen”, returns “0” times.

    [28] “Saracens”, returns “1” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), which is a reference page added in later editions, not in the original manuscript of The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White. Here is the paragraph quotation “Page 335. Fall of the Ottoman Empire.—The impact of Moslem Turkey upon Europe after the fall of Constantinople in 1453 was as severe as had been the catastrophic conquests of the Moslem Saracens, during the century and a half after the death of Mohammed, upon the Eastern Roman Empire. Throughout the Reformation era, Turkey was a continual threat at the Eastern gates of European Christendom; the writings of the Reformers are full of condemnation of the Ottoman power. Christian writers since have been concerned with the role of Turkey in future world events, and commentators on prophecy have seen Turkish power and its decline forecast in Scripture.”

    [29] “Ottoman”, returns “10” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 691.3 (1), [2] The Great Controversy, p. 334.4 (1), [3] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), [4] From Here to Forever, p. 209.3 (1), [5] From Here to Forever, p. 419.3 (1), [6] Maranatha, p. 152.4 (1), [7] The Great Controversy, p. 691.2 (1), [8] The Great Controversy 1888, p. 334.4 (1), [9] The Great Controversy 1888, p. 682.4 (1), [10] Maranatha, p. 152 (1).

    [30] “”Middle East”, returns “1” times – [1] Ellen G. White in Europe 1885-1887, By D. A. Delafield, p. 288.1 (60), here is that paragraph “Unfortunately, as the years passed, Conradi became entangled with strange new views about the nature of the cleansing of the sanctuary and the actual events connected with the crucial 1844 date. To him developments in the Middle East in 1844 fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel 8:14. Conradi also came to believe that the proclamation of the three angels’ messages of Revelation 14 was fulfilled in the work of the Reformers, particularly the Reformers of the sixteenth century. He saw no special providences of God in the beginnings of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.”

    [31] “Constantinople”, returns “5” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 334.4 (1), [2] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), [3] From Here to Forever, p. 209.3 (1), [4] Maranatha, p. 152.4 (1), [5] Manuscript Releases Volume Seventeen [Nos. 1236-1300], p. 79.2 (1).

    [32] “Istanbul”, returns “0” times.

    [33] “Turk”, returns “6” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 114.2 (1), [2] The Great Controversy, p. 197.2 (1), [3] The Great Controversy 1888, p. 114.2 (1), [4] The Great Controversy 1888, p. 197.2 (1), [5] From Here to Forever, p. 125.2 (1), [6] ST July 19, 1883, par. 3.

    [34] “Turkish”, returns “8” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 691.3 (1), [2] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), [3] The Great Controversy, p. 691.2 (1), [4] The Great Controversy 1888, p. 334.4 (1), [5] From Here to Forever, p. 419.3 (1), [6] From Here to Forever, p. 419.4 (1), [7] Testimonies for the Church Volume 1, p. 717.3 (1), [8] The Kress Collection, p. 127.2 (1).

    [35] “Turkey”, returns “16” times – [1] Evangelism, p. 408.3 (1), [2] The Great Controversy, p. 691.1 (1), [3] From Here to Forever, p. 419.3 (1), [4] The Great Controversy, p. 335.1 (1), [5] The Great Controversy, p. 691.3 (1), [6] The Great Controversy 1888, p. 334.5 (1), [7] From Here to Forever, p. 209.4 (1), [8] The Publishing Ministry, p. 37.2 (1), [9] Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 399.1 (1), [10] Testimony Studies on Diet and Foods, p. 76.2 (1), [11] Maranatha, p. 152.5 (1), [12] Life Sketches of Ellen G. White, p. 304.3 (1), [13] Testimonies for the Church Volume 2, p. 486.2 (1), [14] RH December 6, 1887, par. 1, [15] Appeal to the Battle Creek Church, p. 80.3 (1), [16] Ellen G. White in Europe 1885-1887, By D. A. Delafield, p. 294.6 (60).

    ...to be contuned...
     
  10. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    [36] “Mahdi”, returns “0” times.

    [37] “Imam”, returns “0” times.

    [38] “Imams”, returns “0” times.

    [39] “Sharia”, returns “0” times.

    [40] “Sunni”, returns “0” times.

    [41] “Sunnis”, returns “0” times.

    [42] “Shia”, returns “0” times.

    [43] “Shias”, returns “0” times.

    [44] “Shi'ites”, returns “0” times.

    [45] “Mosque”, returns “0” times.

    [46] “Mosques”, returns “0” times.

    [47] “Allah”, returns “0” times.

    [48] “Caliph”, returns “0” times.

    [49] “Caliphate”, returns “0” times.

    [50] “Dhimmi”, returns “0” times.

    [51] “Dhimmis”, returns “0” times.

    [52] “Dhimmitude”, returns “0” times.

    [53] “Iran”, returns “0” times.

    [54] “Iraq”, returns “0” times.

    [55] “Baghdad”, returns “0” times.

    [56] “Ayatollah”, returns “0” times.

    [57] “Byzantine”, returns “0” times.

    [58] “Byzantium”, returns “0” times.

    [59] “Copt”, returns “0” times.

    [60] “Copts”, returns “0” times.

    [61] “Coptic”, returns “2” times – [1] The Great Controversy, p. 694.6 (1), [2] From Here to Forever, p. 420.5 (1), both of which reference the Coptic Church of Ethiopia, which kept the 7thDay Sabbath, “...Until rather recent years the Coptic Church of Ethiopia observed the seventh-day Sabbath. ...”.

    [62] “Hadith”, returns “0” times.

    [63] “Hadiths”, returns “0” times.

    [64] “Ramadan”, returns “0” times.

    [65] “Sufi”, returns “0” times.

    [66] “Sufis”, returns “0” times.

    [67] “Sufism”, returns “0” times.

    [68] “Ka'ba”, returns “0” times.

    [69] “Hamas”, returns “0” times.

    ...and many other like such words.

    Thus we see that any reference to such is so slight that it is near nil.

    Now let us consider what she herelf said in regards to this "daily"...

    ...but before we do, please consider this:

    “September 23, the Lord showed me that He had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people, [see page 86.] and that efforts must be redoubled in this gathering time. In the scattering, Israel was smitten and torn, but now in the gathering time God will heal and bind up His people. In the scattering, efforts made to spread the truth had but little effect, accomplished but little or nothing; but in the gathering, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect. All should be united and zealous in the work. I saw that it was wrong for any to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering; for if God should do no more for us now than He did then, Israel would never be gathered. I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.

    Then I saw in relation to the “daily” (Daniel 8:12) that the word “sacrifice” was supplied by man’s wisdom, and does not belong to the text, and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry. When union existed, before 1844, nearly all were united on the correct view of the “daily”; but in the confusion since 1844, other views have been embraced, and darkness and confusion have followed. Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test.

    The Lord has shown me that the message of the third angel must go, and be proclaimed to the scattered children of the Lord, but it must not be hung on time. I saw that some were getting a false excitement, arising from preaching time; but the third angel’s message is stronger than time can be. I saw that this message can stand on its own foundation and needs not time to strengthen it; and that it will go in mighty power, and do its work, and will be cut short in righteousness. ...” [Early Writings; The Gathering Time; Page 74-75;p]
     
  11. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    “... 3. The view that the Lord “had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people,” on page 74, refers only to the union and strength once existing among those looking for Christ, and to the fact that He had begun to unite and to raise up His people again. ...” [Early Writings; Page 86]

    “On August 28, 1908, almost two months after writing to Prescott, Ellen White wrote to S. N. Haskell, a stalwart advocate of the old view. Because in Early Writings about the problem, telling him not to publish anything at that time that would unsettle the minds of the people regarding positions held in the past. She promised to write him on the subject (35 WCW, p. 217).

    She did not write at once, but on June 24, 1908, she wrote to Prescott of perils that at times threatened his ministry. She spoke of a tendency on his part “to sway from clearly defined truth and give undue attention to some items which seem to require hours of argument to prove, when in reality they do not need to be handled at all.” She wrote: You are not beyond danger of making mistakes. You sometimes allow your mind to center upon a certain train of thought, and you are in danger of making a mountain out of a molehill (Letter 224, 1908).

    A week later she wrote Prescott again, opening with the words:

    I am instructed to say to you, Let there be no questions agitated at this time in the Review that will tend to unsettle minds.... It will prove to be a great mistake if you agitate at this time the question regarding the “daily,” which has been occupying much of your attention of late. I have been shown that the results of your making this question a prominent issue would be that the minds of a large number will be directed to an unnecessary controversy, and that questioning and confusion will be developed in our ranks.... My brother, let us be slow to raise questions that will be a source of temptation to our people (Letter 226, 1908).

    Then she referred to her own relation to the matter and the fact that God had given no special revelation on it:

    I have had no special light on the point presented for discussion, and I do not see the need of this discussion.... There have been different opinions regarding the “daily,” and there will continue to be. If the Lord has seen fit to let this matter rest for so many years without correcting the same, would it not be wisdom on your part to refrain from presenting your views concerning it? (Ibid.; italics supplied).

    This letter was not sent off immediately and we do not know what Ellen White may have instructed him orally, but he published no articles on the subject in subsequent issues of the Review.

    On August 28, 1908, almost two months after writing to Prescott, Ellen White wrote to S. N. Haskell, a stalwart advocate of the old view. Because in Early Writings she had made reference to “the 1843 chart” in connection with a mention of the “daily,” Haskell had arranged for the publication of a facsimile copy of the chart and was circulating it. In her testimony to Haskell she stated:

    Now, my brother, I feel that at this crisis in our experience that chart which you have republished should not be circulated. You have made a mistake in this matter. Satan is determinedly at work to bring about issues that will create confusion.

    There are those who would be delighted to see our ministers at an issue on this question, and they would make much of it (Letter 250, 1908).

    While Ellen White was without special light from the Lord on the particular point in question, she did receive light on the controversy the discussion was causing, and she wrote, “I have been instructed that regarding what might be said on either side of this question, silence at this time is eloquence

    Significantly, in closing her letter, she declared:

    Elder Haskell, I am unable to define clearly the points that are questioned. Let us not agitate a subject that will give the impression that as a people we hold varied opinions, and thus open the way for those to work who wish to leave the impression on minds that we are not led by God. It will also be a source of temptation to those who are not thoroughly converted, and will lead to the making of rash moves (Ibid.; italics supplied).

    In the case of the “daily,” those who held the old view, with Haskell in the lead, maintained that to veer away from it would strike a mortal blow to confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy because of what they claimed was her endorsement of that view in the chapter “The Gathering Time,” published in her first little book in 1851 and republished in Early Writings, 74-76. In this chapter, written in September 1850, in the context of time setting and containing such expressions as “Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test” and “The message of the third angel ... must not be hung on time,” she wrote:

    I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it until His hand was removed.

    Then I saw in relation to the “daily” (Daniel 8:12) that the word “sacrifice” was supplied by man’s wisdom, and does not belong to the text, and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry. When union existed, before 1844, nearly all were united on the correct view of the “daily”; but in the confusion since 1844 other views have been embraced, and darkness and confusion have followed. Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test (Early Writings, 74, 75).

    While some who were involved in the discussion attempted to follow the counsel against agitating the matter of the “daily” as one of importance, and no articles on the subject appeared in the Review, Haskell did not remain silent. Writing to Elder Daniells on March 22, 1908, he declared:

    It is the Early Writings that I would defend, and as long as I believe they teach the view I take, and there are many others that believe the same, and if Sister White does not give any explanation in harmony with Prescott’s idea to defend the testimonies for the sake of others I shall defend them. Must I be made to believe the testimonies teach a certain thing, contrary to my own judgment and the reading of the writings, when Sister White herself does not so explain it?

    Thus, with not a few the discussion took on a major significance—namely, the integrity of the testimonies and loyalty to the Spirit of Prophecy. The question of revelation-inspiration was pressed to the front.

    Concerning this whole matter W. C. White, after spending a day or two studying it carefully, on June 1, 1910, wrote to Edson, taking the position that the context of the statement must be considered.

    It is evident that the vision of September 23, 1850, as published in Ibid., new edition, pages 74-76, under the title “The Gathering Time,”was given to correct the prevalent error of time setting, and to check the fanatical doctrines being taught regarding the return of the Jews to Jerusalem.

    The statement concerning the “daily” of Daniel 8:9-14, as published in Early Writings, appeared first in Present Truth, Vol. I. No. 11, dated Paris, Maine, November 1850. During the same month and in the same place, there was published the first number of Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, which has continued as the church paper of Seventh-day Adventists ever since. In this first number appears an article by Elder Joseph Bates on “The Laodicean Church,” in which he writes at considerable length on the confused state of various bodies of Advent believers, in contrast with the unity that the commandment-keeping Adventists were endeavoring to maintain. On the point of confusion of many bodies of Adventists at that period in their history, over the question of prophetic “time,” he declares:

    ...to be continued...
     
  12. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    “For six successive years, viz: from the fall of 1844 to the spring and fall of 1850, the most of these leading members have been aiding and assisting each other in changing the chronology, i.e., the world’s history, to prove that they were on the true position. What have they gained? Answer, nothing but disappointment and confusion.”

    At one point a little later in the discussions Elder Daniells, accompanied by W. C. White and C. C. Crisler, eager to get from Ellen White herself just what the meaning was of her Early Writings statement, went to her and laid the matter before her. Daniells took with him Early Writings and the 1843 chart. He sat down close to her and plied her with questions. His report of this interview was confirmed by W. C. White:

    I first read to Sister White the statement given above in Early Writings. Then I placed before her our 1843 prophetic chart used by our ministers in expounding the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. I called her attention to the picture of the sanctuary and also to the 2300 year period as they appeared on the chart.

    I then asked if she could recall what was shown her regarding this subject.

    As I recall her answer, she began by telling how some of the leaders who had been in the 1844 movement endeavored to find new dates for the termination of the 2300-year period. This endeavor was to fix new dates for the coming of the Lord. This was causing confusion among those who had been in the Advent Movement.

    In this confusion the Lord revealed to her, she said, that the view that had been held and presented regarding the dates was correct, and that there must never be another time set, nor another time message.

    I then asked her to tell what had been revealed to her about the rest of the “daily”—the Prince, the host, the taking away of the “daily,” and the casting down of the sanctuary.

    She replied that these features were not placed before her in vision as the time part was. She would not be led out to make an explanation of those points of the prophecy....

    The only conclusion I could draw from her free explanation of the time and her silence as to the taking away of the “daily” and the casting down of the sanctuary was that the vision given her was regarding the time, and that she received no explanation as to the other parts of the prophecy (DF 201b, AGD statement, September 25, 1931).

    Since charts figure in this matter, Ellen White’s attitude in this interview is given strong support as the reckoning of the Cummings 1854 “prophetic chart” is studied. *The original of this chart, probably never seen by Daniells, is now in the Advent Source Collection at Andrews University. In this the Jewish altar of “daily sacrifice” in 446 B.C. is used as the starting point for a new 2300-year time span set to end in 1854. This chart, published at Concord, New Hampshire, in 1853, was typical of charts that commenced the 2300 days with what was said to be the taking away of the “daily sacrifice.”

    Ellen White watched with growing anxiety and distress the time-consuming controversy between leading brethren on a point on which she repeatedly said she had received no light. On July 31, 1910, she could restrain herself no longer, and wrote:

    I have words to speak to my brethren east and west, north and south. I request that my writings shall not be used as the leading argument to settle questions over which there is now so much controversy. I entreat of Elders Haskell, Loughborough, Smith, and others of our leading brethren, that they make no reference to my writings to sustain their views of the “daily.”

    It has been presented to me that this is not a subject of vital importance. I am instructed that our brethren are making a mistake in magnifying the importance of the difference in the views that are held. I cannot consent that any of my writings shall be taken as settling this matter. The true meaning of the “daily” is not to be made a test question.

    I now ask that my ministering brethren shall not make use of my writings in their arguments regarding this question; for I have had no instruction on the point under discussion and I see no need for the controversy. Regarding this matter under present conditions, silence is eloquence (Manuscript 11, 1910 [see also Selected Messages 1:164]).

    A few days later, on August 3, she addressed a communication to the ministry of the church:

    To My Brethren in the Ministry:

    Dear Fellow Workers,

    I have words to speak to Brethren Butler, Loughborough, Haskell, Smith, Gilbert, Daniells, Prescott, and all who have been active in urging their views in regard to the meaning of the “daily” of Daniel 8. This is not to be made a test question, and the agitation that has resulted from its being treated as such has been very unfortunate.
    Confusion has resulted, and the minds of some of our brethren have been diverted from the thoughtful consideration that should have been given to the work that the Lord has directed should be done at this time in our cities. This has been pleasing to the great enemy of our work (Letter 62, 1910 [see also Selected Messages 1:167]).

    Then she referred to the last prayer of Christ calling for unity, brought to view in John 17, and commented, “There are many subjects upon which we can speak—sacred, testing truths, beautiful in their simplicity. On these you may dwell with intense earnestness. But,” she urged, “let not the ‘daily,’ or any other subject that will arouse controversy among brethren, be brought in at this time, for this will delay and hinder the work that the Lord would have the minds of our brethren centered upon just now.” And she pleaded, “Let us not agitate questions that will reveal a marked difference of opinion, but rather let us bring from the Word the sacred truths regarding the binding claims of the law of God” Ibid.

    As to the discourses of Seventh-day Adventist ministers, her counsel was:

    Our ministers should seek to make the most favorable presentation of truth. So far as possible, let all speak the same things. Let the discourses be simple, and treating upon vital subjects that can be easily understood.... We must blend together in the bonds of Christlike unity; then our labors will not be in vain. Draw in even cords, and let no contentions be brought in. Reveal the unifying power of truth, and this will make a powerful impression on human minds. In unity there is strength (Ibid. [see also Selected Messages 1:167, 168]).

    W. C. White repeatedly declared his position that statements in the Spirit of Prophecy must be taken in their proper context. On the question of the Early Writings statement in which the “daily” is mentioned, he considered it relevant that his mother had written much concerning the importance of the Advent movement and of the 2300-year prophecy, while the nature of the “daily” itself was “wholly ignored” in all her writings except in one 35-word sentence, found in the middle of the argument that “time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test.” To him the context of the statement found in Early Writings seemed to involve the entire article in which the statement was originally written, the entire scope of the Ellen White writings on the subject, and the historical background of the original writing (DF 201b, WCW to J. E. White, June 1, 1910).

    But larger issues than the identity of the “daily” concerned W. C. White:

    I have told some of our brethren that I thought there were two questions connected with this [daily] matter that were of more importance than the decision which shall be made as to which is most nearly correct, the old or the new view regarding the “daily.” The first is, How shall we deal with one another when there is difference of opinion? Second, How shall we deal with Mother’s writings in our effort to settle doctrinal questions? (WCW to AGD, March 13, 1910). ” [Ellen White: Woman of Vision, Page 511-517]

    What do we learn from all of this? Let us look more closely.
     
  13. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Looking more closely now...

    “September 23, the Lord showed me that He had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people, [see page 86.] and that efforts must be redoubled in this gathering time. In the scattering, Israel was smitten and torn, but now in the gathering time God will heal and bind up His people. In the scattering, efforts made to spread the truth had but little effect, accomplished but little or nothing; but in the gathering, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect. All should be united and zealous in the work. I saw that it was wrong for any to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering; for if God should do no more for us now than He did then, Israel would never be gathered. I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.


    [That statement will be important to consider later on for those [incorrectly] advocating, yet again, the 2,520 day/years which was upon the chart before 1844, but it is the very next statement that relates to the “daily”, and please read carefully...]

    Then I saw in relation to the “daily” (Daniel 8:12) that the word “sacrifice” was supplied by man’s wisdom, and does not belong to the text, [Notice that she is specifically speaking of the word “sacrifice” as being supplied by man's wisdom, and that 'it' [sacrifice] was only being discussed in “relation” to the “daily”.] and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry. [Notice, what is she speaking of here? The “daily” or rather “the word 'sacrifice'”? It is clearly “the word 'sacrifice'” that she is referring to when she says that “the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry.” She was simply saying that “it”, the word “sacrifice”, was added by men's wisdom, albeit in an attempt to clarify the meaning of the “daily”, though now the addition is a greater hindrance, and was not actually present in the Hebrew text, for it references much more than a mere “sacrifice”, as the word is connected with the whole sanctuary services each day, done continually before the Lord, as type unto His antitype. Now notice the following conclusion, and read very carefully, for what it says, and does not say...] When union existed, before 1844, nearly all were united on the correct view of the “daily”; [Notice, by the very context of the previous statements, and the following, what she is saying is that, before 1844, when the greater body of advent believers were in harmony, they all had a “correct view”, or understanding of something dealing with the “daily”, but what was it? Is she saying that they had a correct view that the “daily” was paganism? No, for look at the previous context of Early Writings, for she declares that they were all united in the fact that the word “sacrifice” was an addition to the text. She is not saying, I repeat, not saying, that she agreed with anyone's position on exactly what the “daily” itself was, but only that the word “sacrifice” was added. Let us notice that this is how the Prophet worked. Bible study came to agreement upon the word “sacrifice” being added before 1844. However, once the Great Disappointment happened, and the greater body of advent believers split into myriads of factions, they all went their own ways, and picked up their own ideas, and began to place that word “sacrifice” back into the text, and base whole time charts on some Jewish Sacrifice, see commentary below by Advent Pioneers to verify this, so that they could calcualte again the 2nd Coming at a future time, for they believed that 1844 was incorrect when dropping the word “sacrifice”. They were looking for a literal sacrifice to begin calculation from [and this from another supplied word in Daniel 8:13, the word “concerning”, which should also be dropped, as it hinders the true rendering, from concerning the whole vision, down to just concerning the daily, which would destroy the Advent understanding of the 2300 days, think about it]. Therefore, a vision was given her, to crystalize the core of advent believers on the truth that they had proclaimed before 1844, in that the word “sacrifice” in “relation” to the “daily” was added by men. This was all she was given to confirm. She in no way confirms/or denies for that matter, the “paganism” idea here, for that was not the purpose of the vision, but that was for later Bible study to determine.] but in the confusion since 1844, other views have been embraced, and darkness and confusion have followed. Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test. [What “other views” is she speaking of? Is it the idea that the word “daily” is actually the Heavenly Sanctuary and Jesus' High Priestly ministry there, and that she condemned that view, and instead endorsed by vision the “paganism” idea of Haskell and others? No, in no way. Notice, the contextual connection of “time” to the 1843 chart and the daily “sacrifice” idea. After 1844, and the Great Disappointment which followed, many people gave up on the unity of letting go of that word “sacrifice” and instead went back to it, and went looking for some “sacrifice” in history to which to attach it to, to then recalculate, even again and again, another 2nd Coming date beyond 1844, but Ellen G White, clearly showed that those which did so, were in error, and that those which were in harmony on the text being without the word “sacrifice” should continue to see it that way, and that 1844 was valid and that God did indeed have his hand over such a thing - Revelation 10, the foretelling of the Great Disappointment in the 7 Thunders. Therefore, there “should be time no longer” after 1844, that is to say no longer prophetic time. Time would not longer be a test. [period]

    As for the 2,520 day/year advocates, I shall deal with that below in [2.]]

    The Lord has shown me that the message of the third angel must go, and be proclaimed to the scattered children of the Lord, but it must not be hung on time. [Contextually, dealing with “time” still.] I saw that some were getting a false excitement, arising from preaching time; but the third angel’s message is stronger than time can be. I saw that this message can stand on its own foundation and needs not time to strengthen it; and that it will go in mighty power, and do its work, and will be cut short in righteousness. ...” [Early Writings; The Gathering Time; Page 74-75;p] - Ellen G. White Writings

    Another, witness, from the very era of these writings, verifies these facts. The arguments on the “daily”, from Prescott [not paganism] and Haskell [paganism]. I want you to notice the clear words that Ellen G White uses in regards to this matter, and if there be any doubt, she repeats herself even more clearly, even if that were possible. I also want you to notice the two spirits of these two. Prescott is warned and drops the subject, but Haskell refuses to heed the Prophet's warnings and continues to press the issue, based upon what he thinks she meant in Early Writings, and not on what she actually said. Thus in so doing, he places the SoP in a dangerous position of contradiction to scriptures.

    “On August 28, 1908, almost two months after writing to Prescott[not paganism], Ellen White wrote to S. N. Haskell, a stalwart advocate of the old view[paganism]. Because in Early Writings about the problem, telling him not to publish anything at that time that would unsettle the minds of the people regarding positions held in the past. She promised to write him on the subject (35 WCW, p. 217).[She was more concerned about unity in that instance, than on something which, AT THAT TIME, would cause further and further division. She was attempting to build up, but Haskell did not care, and only cared about what he thought he was right in about she said, whether it was so or wasn't so. She continued to tell him, that it was not time to discuss the issue, but would be able to be discussed at some future time, when the whole body of believers were ready for it.]

    She did not write at once, but on June 24, 1908, she wrote to Prescott of perils that at times threatened his ministry. She spoke of a tendency on his part “to sway from clearly defined truth and give undue attention to some items which seem to require hours of argument to prove, when in reality they do not need to be handled at all.” She wrote: You are not beyond danger of making mistakes. You sometimes allow your mind to center upon a certain train of thought, and you are in danger of making a mountain out of a molehill (Letter 224, 1908).

    A week later she wrote Prescott again, opening with the words:

    I am instructed to say to you, Let there be no questions agitated at this time in the Review that will tend to unsettle minds.... It will prove to be a great mistake if you agitate at this time the question regarding the “daily,” which has been occupying much of your attention of late. I have been shown that the results of your making this question a prominent issue would be that the minds of a large number will be directed to an unnecessary controversy, and that questioning and confusion will be developed in our ranks.... My brother, let us be slow to raise questions that will be a source of temptation to our people (Letter 226, 1908). [She did not say, not to raise them, but rather to be “slow to raise” them, and that it was not yet “time” to do so, because it would at that time cause too much disarray, but there would be a time yet future for it. It would be a temptation at that time, because there was too much confusion in the matter already, and opinions being held to, along with the SoP being heralded has sustaining both sides.]

    ...to be continued...
     
  14. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Then she referred to her own relation to the matter and the fact that God had given no special revelation on it:

    I have had no special light on the point presented for discussion, and I do not see the need of this discussion.... There have been different opinions regarding the “daily,” and there will continue to be. [What did she clearly say, by her own pen? She had “NO special light on the point presented for discussion”. Doesn't that contradict her previous statements in Early Writings? No, for those statements and vision were only in regards to the “sacrifice” portion. Therefore, her Early Writings statements cannot be used to endorse ANY view on what exactly the scripture meant by “the daily”. She never agreed nor endorsed the paganism view, nor any other, for that was not the purpose of that previous vision. Haskell was abusing that portion and hanging everything upon that single statement, even as many do today. It is very dangerous to do that, especially if the context is not reviewed carefully.] If the Lord has seen fit to let this matter rest for so many years without correcting the same, would it not be wisdom on your part to refrain from presenting your views concerning it? (Ibid.; italics supplied).

    This letter was not sent off immediately and we do not know what Ellen White may have instructed him orally, but he published no articles on the subject in subsequent issues of the Review. [Notice, that Prescott, actually heeded the Prophet and ceased from writing further in the Review on it, and thus we see humility on his part, but what shall we see of Haskell? Not saying that he was not a godly man, but in this instance, notice...]

    On August 28, 1908, almost two months after writing to Prescott, Ellen White wrote to S. N. Haskell, a stalwart advocate of the old view. Because in Early Writings she had made reference to “the 1843 chart” in connection with a mention of the “daily,” Haskell had arranged for the publication of a facsimile copy of the chart and was circulating it. In her testimony to Haskell she stated:

    [Haskell, went around with a copy of the 1843, and utilized her Early Writings statements to verify his paganism view, and yet Ellen White clearly stated that she said no such thing.]

    Now, my brother, I feel that at this crisis in our experience that chart which you have republished should not be circulated. You have made a mistake in this matter. Satan is determinedly at work to bring about issues that will create confusion.

    There are those who would be delighted to see our ministers at an issue on this question, and they would make much of it (Letter 250, 1908).

    While Ellen White was without special light from the Lord on the particular point in question, she did receive light on the controversy the discussion was causing, and she wrote, “I have been instructed that regarding what might be said on either side of this question, silence at this time is eloquence[Notice, that God told her, that “silence at this time is eloquence”, and not that it was not to be discussed at some future date, when more was to be revealed from Bible study, and SoP, and when the greater body of Adventists were ready to receive what the Lord had in store on it. Her Early Writings statements do not uphold, nor for a moment verify the “paganism” idea, any more than that it verified anyone else's specific views on the “daily” [other than eliminating the word “sacrifice”]. God has seen, that it was always through Bible study first, and then confirmation through vision.]

    Significantly, in closing her letter, she declared:

    Elder Haskell, I am unable to define clearly the points that are questioned. Let us not agitate a subject that will give the impression that as a people we hold varied opinions, and thus open the way for those to work who wish to leave the impression on minds that we are not led by God. It will also be a source of temptation to those who are not thoroughly converted, and will lead to the making of rash moves (Ibid.; italics supplied).

    In the case of the “daily,” those who held the old view, with Haskell in the lead, maintained that to veer away from it would strike a mortal blow to confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy [Notice, that Haskell and others were defending their position not from a Biblical exegetical standpoint, but from a mere impression of her Early Writings statements. This was throwing confusion upon the SoP, for they were seeming to hold it up in defense with the Early Writings statements, but others which saw differently from a scriptural standpoint and study could not agree with them, and so it seemed that they were in effect disagreeing with Ellen G. White herslef and the SoP, when in fact they were not in disagreement at all. For she neither endorsed nor condemned either position there. In other words, Haskell, and those siding with the paganism idea, were merely basing their stance upon what they had [incorrectly] perceived Ellen G White to have stated there and this was causing division among the brethren who had not all the facts at hand. They were wrong to base their stance upon those Early Writings statements, even by her own admission, for she had verified none of their positions in it.] because of what they claimed was her endorsement of that view in the chapter “The Gathering Time,” published in her first little book in 1851 and republished in Early Writings, 74-76. In this chapter, written in September 1850, in the context of time setting and containing such expressions as “Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test” and “The message of the third angel ... must not be hung on time,” she wrote:

    I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it until His hand was removed.

    Then I saw in relation to the “daily” (Daniel 8:12) that the word “sacrifice” was supplied by man’s wisdom, and does not belong to the text, and that the Lord gave the correct view of it to those who gave the judgment hour cry. When union existed, before 1844, nearly all were united on the correct view of the “daily”; but in the confusion since 1844 other views have been embraced, and darkness and confusion have followed. Time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test (Early Writings, 74, 75).

    While some who were involved in the discussion attempted to follow the counsel against agitating the matter of the “daily” as one of importance, and no articles on the subject appeared in the Review[ie Prescott], Haskell did not remain silent. Writing to Elder Daniells on March 22, 1908, he declared:

    It is the Early Writings that I would defend, and as long as I believe they teach the view I take, [Notice, not the Bible, but claiming to uphold his idea of what the Early Writings were saying, “I believe they teach the view I take”...thus the SoP was in a false light, and in danger of being seen as contradictory with scripture, and anyone else's study upon the subject; etc this was not about study, but about pride of being in the right and not wanting to admit error.] and there are many others that believe the same, and if Sister White does not give any explanation in harmony with Prescott’s idea to defend the testimonies for the sake of others I shall defend them. Must I be made to believe the testimonies teach a certain thing, contrary to my own judgment and the reading of the writings, when Sister White herself does not so explain it? [Notice, he is allowing himself to set up a false [incorrect] dichotomy utilizing the SoP, and is holding it up for others.]

    Thus, with not a few the discussion took on a major significance—namely, the integrity of the testimonies and loyalty to the Spirit of Prophecy. The question of revelation-inspiration was pressed to the front. [See what happened, is exactly what God and sister White warned would happen. Is it any different today? It is not.]

    Concerning this whole matter W. C. White, after spending a day or two studying it carefully, on June 1, 1910, wrote to Edson, taking the position that the context of the statement must be considered.

    It is evident that the vision of September 23, 1850, as published in Ibid., new edition, pages 74-76, under the title “The Gathering Time,”was given to correct the prevalent error of time setting, and to check the fanatical doctrines being taught regarding the return of the Jews to Jerusalem.

    ...to be continued...
     
  15. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    The statement concerning the “daily” of Daniel 8:9-14, as published in Early Writings, appeared first in Present Truth, Vol. I. No. 11, dated Paris, Maine, November 1850. During the same month and in the same place, there was published the first number of Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, which has continued as the church paper of Seventh-day Adventists ever since. In this first number appears an article by Elder Joseph Bates on “The Laodicean Church,” in which he writes at considerable length on the confused state of various bodies of Advent believers, in contrast with the unity that the commandment-keeping Adventists were endeavoring to maintain. On the point of confusion of many bodies of Adventists at that period in their history, over the question of prophetic “time,” he declares:

    “For six successive years, viz: from the fall of 1844 to the spring and fall of 1850, the most of these leading members have been aiding and assisting each other in changing the chronology, i.e., the world’s history, to prove that they were on the true position. What have they gained? Answer, nothing but disappointment and confusion.”

    At one point a little later in the discussions Elder Daniells, accompanied by W. C. White and C. C. Crisler, eager to get from Ellen White herself just what the meaning was of her Early Writings statement, went to her and laid the matter before her. Daniells took with him Early Writings and the 1843 chart. He sat down close to her and plied her with questions. His report of this interview was confirmed by W. C. White:

    I first read to Sister White the statement given above in Early Writings. Then I placed before her our 1843 prophetic chart used by our ministers in expounding the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. I called her attention to the picture of the sanctuary and also to the 2300 year period as they appeared on the chart.

    I then asked if she could recall what was shown her regarding this subject.

    As I recall her answer, she began by telling how some of the leaders who had been in the 1844 movement endeavored to find new dates for the termination of the 2300-year period. This endeavor was to fix new dates for the coming of the Lord. This was causing confusion among those who had been in the Advent Movement.

    In this confusion the Lord revealed to her, she said, that the view that had been held and presented regarding the dates was correct, and that there must never be another time set, nor another time message.

    I then asked her to tell what had been revealed to her about the rest of the “daily”—the Prince, the host, the taking away of the “daily,” and the casting down of the sanctuary.

    She replied that these features were not placed before her in vision as the time part was. She would not be led out to make an explanation of those points of the prophecy....

    [She clearly stated that she had no special light on the point in question.]

    The only conclusion I could draw from her free explanation of the time and her silence as to the taking away of the “daily” and the casting down of the sanctuary was that the vision given her was regarding the time, and that she received no explanation as to the other parts of the prophecy (DF 201b, AGD statement, September 25, 1931).

    [Look, at that last sentence again, from a secondary witness, even after Ellen White herself. “No explanation...”]

    Since charts figure in this matter, Ellen White’s attitude in this interview is given strong support as the reckoning of the Cummings 1854 “prophetic chart” is studied. *The original of this chart, probably never seen by Daniells, is now in the Advent Source Collection at Andrews University. In this the Jewish altar of “daily sacrifice” in 446 B.C. is used as the starting point for a new 2300-year time span set to end in 1854. This chart, published at Concord, New Hampshire, in 1853, was typical of charts that commenced the 2300 days with what was said to be the taking away of the “daily sacrifice.”

    [Did you see that? Just as was stated above, yet further charts went back to the word “sacrifice”, gave up the 1844 date, and tried to recalculate from some Jewish “sacrifice” date in the past to come up with a new 2nd Advent date. That was all she was attempting to correct on the matter of the “daily”, to continue to understand that the word “sacrifice”, as previously believed was added by men, and that 1844 was correct.]

    Ellen White watched with growing anxiety and distress the time-consuming controversy between leading brethren on a point on which she repeatedly said she had received no light. On July 31, 1910, she could restrain herself no longer, and wrote:

    I have words to speak to my brethren east and west, north and south. I request that my writings shall not be used as the leading argument to settle questions over which there is now so much controversy. I entreat of Elders Haskell, Loughborough, Smith, and others of our leading brethren, that they make no reference to my writings to sustain their views of the “daily.”

    It has been presented to me that this is not a subject of vital importance. I am instructed that our brethren are making a mistake in magnifying the importance of the difference in the views that are held. I cannot consent that any of my writings shall be taken as settling this matter. The true meaning of the “daily” is not to be made a test question.

    I now ask that my ministering brethren shall not make use of my writings in their arguments regarding this question; for I have had no instruction on the point under discussion and I see no need for the controversy. Regarding this matter under present conditions, silence is eloquence (Manuscript 11, 1910 [see also Selected Messages 1:164]).

    A few days later, on August 3, she addressed a communication to the ministry of the church:

    To My Brethren in the Ministry:

    Dear Fellow Workers,

    I have words to speak to Brethren Butler, Loughborough, Haskell, Smith, Gilbert, Daniells, Prescott, and all who have been active in urging their views in regard to the meaning of the “daily” of Daniel 8. This is not to be made a test question, and the agitation that has resulted from its being treated as such has been very unfortunate.

    Confusion has resulted, and the minds of some of our brethren have been diverted from the thoughtful consideration that should have been given to the work that the Lord has directed should be done at this time in our cities. This has been pleasing to the great enemy of our work (Letter 62, 1910 [see also Selected Messages 1:167]).

    Then she referred to the last prayer of Christ calling for unity, brought to view in John 17, and commented, “There are many subjects upon which we can speak—sacred, testing truths, beautiful in their simplicity. On these you may dwell with intense earnestness. But,” she urged, “let not the ‘daily,’ or any other subject that will arouse controversy among brethren, be brought in at this time, for this will delay and hinder the work that the Lord would have the minds of our brethren centered upon just now.” And she pleaded, “Let us not agitate questions that will reveal a marked difference of opinion, but rather let us bring from the Word the sacred truths regarding the binding claims of the law of God” Ibid.

    As to the discourses of Seventh-day Adventist ministers, her counsel was:

    Our ministers should seek to make the most favorable presentation of truth. So far as possible, let all speak the same things. Let the discourses be simple, and treating upon vital subjects that can be easily understood.... We must blend together in the bonds of Christlike unity; then our labors will not be in vain. Draw in even cords, and let no contentions be brought in. Reveal the unifying power of truth, and this will make a powerful impression on human minds. In unity there is strength (Ibid. [see also Selected Messages 1:167, 168]).

    W. C. White repeatedly declared his position that statements in the Spirit of Prophecy must be taken in their proper context. On the question of the Early Writings statement in which the “daily” is mentioned, he considered it relevant that his mother had written much concerning the importance of the Advent movement and of the 2300-year prophecy, while the nature of the “daily” itself was “wholly ignored” in all her writings except in one 35-word sentence, found in the middle of the argument that “time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test.” To him the context of the statement found in Early Writings seemed to involve the entire article in which the statement was originally written, the entire scope of the Ellen White writings on the subject, and the historical background of the original writing (DF 201b, WCW to J. E. White, June 1, 1910).

    ...to be continued...
     
  16. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    But larger issues than the identity of the “daily” concerned W. C. White:

    I have told some of our brethren that I thought there were two questions connected with this [daily] matter that were of more importance than the decision which shall be made as to which is most nearly correct, the old or the new view regarding the “daily.” The first is, How shall we deal with one another when there is difference of opinion? Second, How shall we deal with Mother’s writings in our effort to settle doctrinal questions? (WCW to AGD, March 13, 1910). ” [Ellen White: Woman of Vision, Page 511-517] - Ellen G. White Writings

    Also see:

    “To My Brethren in the Ministry,

    Dear Fellow Workers,

    I have words to speak to Brethren Butler, Loughborough, Haskell, Smith, Gilbert, Daniells, Prescott, and all who have been active in urging their views in regard to the meaning of the “daily” of Daniel 8. This is not to be made a test question, and the agitation that has resulted from its being treated as such has been very unfortunate. Confusion has resulted, and the minds of some of our brethren have been diverted from the thoughtful consideration that should have been given to the work that the Lord has directed should be done at this time in our cities. This has been pleasing to the great enemy of our work.

    The light given me is that nothing should be done to increase the agitation upon this question. Let it not be brought into our discourses, and dwelt upon as a matter of great importance. We have a great work before us, and we have not an hour to lose from the essential work to be done. Let us confine our public efforts to the presentation of the important lines of truth on which we are united, and on which we have clear light.—Letter 62, 1910 (see also Selected Messages 1:167).

    Then she referred to the last prayer of Christ calling for unity, brought to view in John 17, and commented, “There are many subjects upon which we can speak—sacred, testing truths, beautiful in their simplicity. On these you may dwell with intense earnestness. But,” she urged, “let not the ‘daily,’ or any other subject that will arouse controversy among brethren, be brought in at this time, for this will delay and hinder the work that the Lord would have the minds of our brethren centered upon just now.” And she pleaded, “Let us not agitate questions that will reveal a marked difference of opinion, but rather let us bring from the Word the sacred truths regarding the binding claims of the law of God.”— Ibid.

    As to the discourses of Seventh-day Adventist ministers, her counsel continued:

    Our ministers should seek to make the most favorable presentation of truth. So far as possible, let all speak the same things. Let the discourses be simple, and treating upon vital subjects that can be easily understood.... We must blend together in the bonds of Christlike unity; then our labors will not be in vain. Draw in even cords, and let no contentions be brought in. Reveal the unifying power of truth, and this will make a powerful impression on human minds. In unity there is strength.— Ibid. (see also Selected Messages 1:167, 168).

    She closed her appeal with the admonition that “while the present condition of difference of opinion ... exists, let it not be made prominent. Let all contention cease. At such a time silence is eloquence.”— Ibid. (see also Ibid., 1:168).

    Futility of Controversy Over Minor Doctrinal Points

    These clear-cut messages, in which proponents of both sides of the controversy over the daily were named and called upon to cease and desist, brought to a halt open discussions and freed a number of the leading men involved to give attention to more important lines of endeavor. There was forever made clear the futility of involvement in doctrinal controversy on points of minor importance, or points on which there is no clear light in the Spirit of Prophecy writings. Among other factors, the incident brought to the front points for consideration in the study of revelation and inspiration, opening the way for positive, fruitful approaches. It did not, as was feared by the adherents of the old view, destroy confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy itself.

    At the same time it brought to view the lengths to which men who were brethren would go in attempts to accomplish their determined ends. One illustration of this was provided in the manner in which private personal testimonies were used. A linotype operator at the Review and Herald office, who had been reared in the Midwest in a community of “staunch old patriarchs” who had an undying love and zeal for the truth, was led to espouse the old view of the daily. He won the confidence of the custodian of the General Conference files containing in bound form testimonies sent to leading men, and gained access to materials that should have been held in confidence, testimonies to key individuals that at times dealt with matters between them and God. In the controversy, excerpts from these personal testimonies were used to discredit key men who held the new view. Daniells decried the access that was given to private testimonies and believed that shockingly indiscreet use was made of some of them. Certain men, he declared, seemed to have their pockets full of personal testimonies (AGD to WCW, August 5, 1910).

    As Elder Daniells traveled around the field, he was often called upon to deal with questions asked about Ellen White and the Spirit of Prophecy. This was true also in his correspondence. He found that taking into account the contextual considerations often solved what seemed to be difficult questions. When pressed as to why an ordained minister was managing a denominational sanitarium when Sister White had spoken against ministers performing largely administrative duties, he pointed out that the state of the man’s health was a factor. He urged that it would not do to take a single statement and stretch it beyond its purpose and meaning.

    W. C. White repeatedly declared his position that statements in the Spirit of Prophecy must be taken in their proper context. On the question of the Early Writings statement in which the daily is mentioned, he considered it relevant that his mother had written much concerning the importance of the Advent Movement and of the 2300-year prophecy, while the nature of the daily itself was “wholly ignored” in all her writings except in one thirty-five-word sentence, found in the middle of the argument that “time has not been a test since 1844, and it will never again be a test.” To him the context of the statement found in Early Writings seemed to involve the entire article in which the statement was originally written, the entire scope of the Ellen White writings on the subject, and the historical background of the original writing (DF 201b, WCW to J. E. White, June 1, 1910).

    But larger issues than the identity of the daily concerned W. C. White:

    I have told some of our brethren that I thought there were two questions connected with this [daily] matter that were of more importance than the decision which shall be made as to which is most nearly correct, the old or the new view regarding the “daily.” The first is, How shall we deal with one another when there is difference of opinion? Second, How shall we deal with Mother’s writings in our effort to settle doctrinal questions?—WCW to AGD, March 13, 1910.” [Ellen G. White: Volume 6—The Later Elmshaven Years: 1905-1915, By Arthur L. White, Page 259-261] - http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=6BIO&lang=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=259

    ...to be continued...
     
  17. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    “To My Brethren in the Ministry:

    Dear Fellow-workers,

    I have words to speak to Brethren Butler, Loughborough, Haskell, Smith, Gilbert, Daniells, Prescott, and all who have been active in urging their views in regard to the meaning of “the daily” of Daniel 8. This is not to be made a test question, and the agitation that has resulted from its being treated as such has been very unfortunate. Confusion has resulted, and the minds of some of our brethren have been diverted from the thoughtful consideration that should have been given to the work that the Lord has directed should be done at this time in our cities. This has been pleasing to the great enemy of our work.

    The light given me is that nothing should be done to increase the agitation upon this question. Let it not be brought into our discourses and dwelt upon as a matter of great importance. We have a great work before us, and we have not an hour to lose from the essential work to be done. Let us confine our public efforts to the presentation of the important lines of truth on which we have clear light.

    I would bring to your attention the last prayer of Christ, as recorded in John 17. There are many subjects upon which we can speak,—sacred, testing truths, beautiful in their simplicity. On these you may dwell with intense earnestness. But let not “the daily,” or any other subject that will arouse controversy among brethren, be brought in at this time; for this will delay and hinder the work that the Lord would have the minds of our brethren centered upon just now. Let us not agitate questions that will reveal a marked difference of opinion, but rather let us bring from the Word the sacred truths regarding the binding claims of the law of God.

    Our ministers should seek to make the most favorable presentation of the truth. So far as possible, let all speak the same things. Let the discourses be simple, and treating upon vital subjects that can be easily understood. When all our ministers see the necessity of humbling themselves, then the Lord can work with them. We need now to be reconverted, that angels of God may co-operate with us, making a sacred impression upon the minds of those for whom we labor.

    We must blend together in the bonds of Christlike unity; then our labors will not be in vain. Draw in even cords, and let no contentions be brought in. Reveal the unifying power of truth, and this will make a powerful impression on human minds. In unity there is strength.

    This is not a time to make prominent unimportant points of difference. If some who have not a strong living connection with the Master, reveal to the world their weakness of Christian experience, the enemies of the truth who are watching us closely will make the most of it, and our work will be hindered. Let all cultivate meekness, and learn lessons from Him who is meek and lowly in heart.
    The subject of “the daily” should not call forth such movements as have been made. As a result of the way this subject has been handled by men on both sides of the question, controversy has arisen and confusion has resulted.

    The action of Brother ----- ----- in publishing a tract containing condemnation of his brethren and of their belief, was not endorsed by God. And to Elder ----- I will say, The Lord has not placed upon you a burden regarding this matter.
    I was pained to hear that Elder -----, knowing that there was a difference of opinion regarding this matter among our leading brethren, should urge this matter to the front, as was done in some places.

    Others of our brethren have not been guided by wisdom, and have not reasoned clearly from cause to effect regarding the results of their efforts to uphold their views regarding the interpretation of “the daily.” While the present condition of difference of opinion regarding this subject exists, let it not be made prominent. Let all contention cease. At such a time silence is eloquence.

    The duty of God’s servants at this time is to preach the Word in the cities. Christ came to save souls, and we, as almoners of His grace, need to impart to the inhabitants of the great cities a knowledge of His saving truth.
    (Signed) Ellen G. White” [A Call to the Watchmen, Page 10-] - Ellen G. White Writings

    Thus we can draw some very hard conclusions from these facts...
     
  18. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Another important fact to consider is who is depicted in Revelation 11 in the First Woe? It is Atheistic [the ruling power; King] France [the "South"; led by Napoleon], also mentioning the French revolution and Reign of Terror and the Beast from the Bottomless pit is pure state rule.

    Napoleon himself even gained control of the literal country of Egypt.

    "...
    After making himself master of Egypt, Bonaparte gave Egypt his version of the benefits of western civilisation. Cairo soon took on the appearance of a European city, with its administration confided to a 'divan' chosen from among the best men of the province. At the same time the other cities received municipal institutions. An Institut d'Egypte of French scholars was set up and he joined the title of President of the Institut to the title of académicien. The conqueror became the legislator, setting up a library, a chemistry laboratory, a health service, a botanical garden, an observatory, an antiquities museum and a menagerie. ..." - French campaign in Egypt and Syria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    What years are we speaking about beginning with? 1798.

    See again: http://www.christianforums.com/t7694792/

    Daniel 11:40{a} the King of the South is Atheism, for it is the ruling power over the South [spiritual Egypt], and as history records, Napoleon the Emperor of France actually gained control of literal Egypt.

    “... It would be far more consistent for nations to abolish their statutes, and permit the people to do as they please, than for the Ruler of the universe to annul His law, and leave the world without a standard to condemn the guilty or justify the obedient. Would we know the result of making void the law of God? The experiment has been tried. Terrible were the scenes enacted in France when atheism became the controlling power. It was then demonstrated to the world that to throw off the restraints which God has imposed is to accept the rule of the cruelest of tyrants. When the standard of righteousness is set aside, the way is open for the prince of evil to establish his power in the earth. ...” The Great Controversy; page 584

    ...thus we see one of the 7 heads of Revelation 17 coming into view, as well as Daniel 11, etc...

    “...“The great city” in whose streets the witnesses are slain, and where their dead bodies lie, is “spiritually” Egypt. Of all nations presented in Bible history, Egypt most boldly denied the existence of the living God and resisted His commands. No monarch ever ventured upon more open and highhanded rebellion against the authority of Heaven than did the king of Egypt. When the message was brought him by Moses, in the name of the Lord, Pharaoh proudly answered: “Who is Jehovah, that I should hearken unto His voice to let Israel go? I know not Jehovah, and moreover I will not let Israel go.” Exodus 5:2, A.R.V. This is atheism, and the nation represented by Egypt would give voice to a similar denial of the claims of the living God and would manifest a like spirit of unbelief and defiance. “The great city” is also compared, “spiritually,” to Sodom. The corruption of Sodom in breaking the law of God was especially manifested in licentiousness. And this sin was also to be a pre-eminent characteristic of the nation that should fulfill the specifications of this scripture. ...” - The Great Controversy, page 269

    “... The papal church will never relinquish her claim to infallibility. All that she has done in her persecution of those who reject her dogmas she holds to be right; and would she not repeat the same acts, should the opportunity be presented? Let the restraints now imposed by secular governments be removed and Rome be reinstated in her former power, and there would speedily be a revival of her tyranny and persecution. ...” - The Great Controversy, Chapter 35, Liberty Of Conscience Threatened; page 564


    “The message of salvation has been preached in all ages; but this message is a part of the gospel which could be proclaimed only in the last days, for only then would it be true that the hour of judgment had come. The prophecies present a succession of events leading down to the opening of the judgment. This is especially true of the book of Daniel. But that part of his prophecy which related to the last days, Daniel was bidden to close up and seal “to the time of the end.” Not till we reach this time could a message concerning the judgment be proclaimed, based on the fulfillment of these prophecies. But at the time of the end, says the prophet, “many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Daniel 12:4.

    The apostle Paul warned the church not to look for the coming of Christ in his day. “That day shall not come,” he says, “except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Not till after the great apostasy, and the long period of the reign of the “man of sin,” can we look for the advent of our Lord. The “man of sin,” which is also styled “the mystery of iniquity,” “the son of perdition,” and “that wicked,” represents the papacy, which, as foretold in prophecy, was to maintain its supremacy for 1260 years. This period ended in 1798. The coming of Christ could not take place before that time. Paul covers with his caution the whole of the Christian dispensation down to the year 1798. It is this side of that time that the message of Christ’s second coming is to be proclaimed.

    No such message has ever been given in past ages. Paul, as we have seen, did not preach it; he pointed his brethren into the then far-distant future for the coming of the Lord. The Reformers did not proclaim it. Martin Luther placed the judgment about three hundred years in the future from his day. But since 1798 the book of Daniel has been unsealed, knowledge of the prophecies has increased, and many have proclaimed the solemn message of the judgment near.” - The Great Controversy; page 356

    You see the Book Great Controversy, is the Key, inspired of the Holy Spirit. From the very first Chapter begins the First Trumpet, which is the Fall of Jerusalem, and goes through each of the Trumpets, Seals and Churches... in that Book...

    The Great Controversy is written as the Commentary for Revelation and Daniel! This can be fully demonstrated... and even noted Pastor Stephen Bohr from Secrets Unsealed is already ahead of most on the research in this area, though others like Jeremiah Davis, Moses Mason from Messengers of Light Ministries, etc and others are right there also.

    How much does the book Great Controversy mention Ottoman, Islam, etc?
     
  19. taikachanz

    taikachanz God's Word Stands Alone

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    One Question: Explain what does "AT THIS TIME." Mean
     
  20. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

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    Which verse do you refer to, I use the King James Bible primarily, and not all others share the same language. Please state the Bible used and verse. Thank you.
     
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