"Reversion" rather than conversion to Islam?

[Wyzaard]

Could some Muslim posters explain how this 'reversion' concept works, the idea that everyone is born a 'pure' Muslim by default, may be raised in different errant paths, and then might 'revert' back to being Muslim again rather than convert to Islam?

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Could some Muslim posters explain how this 'reversion' concept works, the idea that everyone is born a 'pure' Muslim by default, may be raised in different errant paths, and then might 'revert' back to being Muslim again rather than convert to Islam?

Hi Muslims beleive that every soul , every child was born sinless and with the disposition of direct submission to one GOD.We do not belive in the original sin and that is was inherited.That was a concept that was introduced into Christian by saint Augustine.
So muslims beleive that since one was born, sinless and and birth on submits to the will of god, then one is a muslim.One is raised by ones parents into any other reluigion , beleif or ideology but the Child or toddler himself beleives only in one god.So after having been raised in any other religion or beleif, and one comes to islam it is considered that one is coming back to one's natural disposition so one reverts back rather than converts inot a new faith. Like the prodigal son returning home.
Peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

 

[français]

Muslims believe in Tawheed, the oneness and uniqueness of God. and they believe that we are all born with the inclination to wanting to worship this one, unique, perfect God. And we are born pure, and born Muslim.

Then, as you grow up, you might become a Christian, or something like that due to your parents faith.

then, you are 40 and decide to convert to Islam. Well, since you were born a "pure and Muslim" then you are just reverting back.

I find it silly to believe. But that is what they believe!

 

[Montalban]

Hi Muslims beleive that every soul , every child was born sinless and with the disposition of direct submission to one GOD.We do not belive in the original sin and that is was inherited.That was a concept that was introduced into Christian by saint Augustine.
So muslims beleive that since one was born, sinless and and birth on submits to the will of god, then one is a muslim.One is raised by ones parents into any other reluigion , beleif or ideology but the Child or toddler himself beleives only in one god.So after having been raised in any other religion or beleif, and one comes to islam it is considered that one is coming back to one's natural disposition so one reverts back rather than converts inot a new faith. Like the prodigal son returning home.
Peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

Out of curiosity are you a Moslem?

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Out of curiosity are you a Moslem?

I am not a moslem, I hate that word.It is Muslim.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Muslims believe in Tawheed, the oneness and uniqueness of God. and they believe that we are all born with the inclination to wanting to worship this one, unique, perfect God. And we are born pure, and born Muslim.

Then, as you grow up, you might become a Christian, or something like that due to your parents faith.

then, you are 40 and decide to convert to Islam. Well, since you were born a "pure and Muslim" then you are just reverting back.

I find it silly to believe. But that is what they believe!

what exactly is silly about about that?
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just

 

[français]

what exactly is silly about about that?
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just

Because we do not all have inclinations to worship this one, unique god.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Because we do not all have inclinations to worship this one, unique god.

you may noy have the inclination but that is the natural disposition of man.Man from his birth submits to the will of GOd, in time with a lack of understanding man changed these beleifs and made him plural, and antropomorphic which in the end resulted to man and animals become GOD.
So if that is the natural dispositon of man how can it be considered silly?What is silly is actually what is not natural.
peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

 

[Wyzaard]

Muslims believe in Tawheed, the oneness and uniqueness of God. and they believe that we are all born with the inclination to wanting to worship this one, unique, perfect God. And we are born pure, and born Muslim.

Hmmm... I don't recall possessing this inclination; how does a Muslim support this concept outisde of the Quran and Hadith?

 

[Secundulus]

I agree that all are born Muslim. That is all are born in sin and subject to the God of this world who by chance is also the God of Islam.

By the grace of God, some are brought to the truth and then place their trust in the light and forsake the darkness into which they were born.

 

[Montalban]

I am not a moslem, I hate that word.It is Muslim.

Moslem's a valid way of saying it!


But I guess it helps dodge answering the question

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Moslem's a valid way of saying it!


But I guess it helps dodge answering the question

The ordinary word in English is "Muslim", pronounced /'mتٹs.lةھm/ or /'mتŒz.lة™m/. The word is pronounced /'mتٹslةھm/ in Arabic. It is sometimes spelt "Moslem", which some regard as offensive.[3](wikipedia)

so although you claim it is a valid way of saying it many muslims take it as offensive because Moslem has other conotations.So let us stick to muslim. Also why should I dodge answering the question I made it clear that Moslem is not the appropriate word and that muslim is. I prefer to be called Muslim than Moslem.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

 

[Wyzaard]

so although you claim it is a valid way of saying it many muslims take it as offensive because Moslem has other conotations.So let us stick to muslim. Also why should I dodge answering the question I made it clear that Moslem is not the appropriate word and that muslim is. I prefer to be called Muslim than Moslem.

'Mohammedian' is also out... I really hate it when I read old textbooks and see that term used.

Thanks for the info, btw! Is there any variation in how this reversion concept is interpreted amongst Muslims from different traditions/communities?

 

[yaqovzadeek]

'Mohammedian' is also out... I really hate it when I read old textbooks and see that term used.

Thanks for the info, btw! Is there any variation in how this reversion concept is interpreted amongst Muslims from different traditions/communities?

a reversion is a reversion, I don't see any different in the way it is interpreted. Once someone decides to revert to Islam then he once he does so he is amuslim anywhere in the world.
peace Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just

 

[Montalban]

The ordinary word in English is "Muslim", pronounced /'mتٹs.lةھm/ or /'mتŒz.lة™m/. The word is pronounced /'mتٹslةھm/ in Arabic. It is sometimes spelt "Moslem", which some regard as offensive.[3](wikipedia)

Here we go again...

Check out these sites by Moslems using the word.
http://www.moslem.org/

American Moslem Foundation
http://www.oz.net/~msarram/
A German site...
http://www.moslem.de/

Here's another Moslem site using the term Moslem...
http://www.ranti.com/en/working_dress.html
This site gives advice on Moselm dress.

Another site talking about Moslem beliefs
http://www.experiencefestival.com/moslem_beliefs

Arabic News...
OIC exposes its actions to back Moslem minorities
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030408/2003040828.html

Yemen Times...
"On the occasion of the Holy Month of Ramadhan, aside from the worship rites and duties ascribed to the month for Moslems to engage in throughout the world, Ramadhan is also a month of reflection and meditation, in which Moslems should take a hard look at themselves."
http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=883&p=opinion&a=1

MOM, WHAT IS A MOSLEM?
http://www.balcad.com/mom.shtml

http://www.utc.edu/Faculty/Bill-Wright/mossci2.htm
is a secular site using the term in praising Islam.

and as you're into on-line encyclopeidas...
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/X/X-M1oslem.asp
This encyclopedia site has lots of links to Moselm items, such as Moslem weddings.

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0009781.html
This one says it's just an alternative spelling

http://www.4panda.com/special/muslim/index.htm
This site gives Moslem tour packages (hate to sound incredulous, but they'd not be doing too much business if they were insulting their customers).

Both Moslem and Muslim are correct, but the second is now more common than the first. The term Mohammedan is considered offensive by many Muslims and is best avoided.
http://www.allwords.com/word-Moslem.html

 

[Montalban]

'Mohammedian' is also out... I really hate it when I read old textbooks and see that term used.

Thanks for the info, btw!

Even some Moslems use it...

"Communications Minister and chairman of the governing body of Mohamedan Sporting Club Barrister Nazmul Huda said through this victory another dream of the country came to true and it led Bangladesh one step forward in cricket arena"
http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/26/15344

There's a Mohamedan sporting club in Calcutta.

They used the term...
Central National Muhamedan Association
http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/C_0068.htm

So did the cycle of Prophecy begin with the Muhammedan Reality, with the inner reality of Muhammad, while it ended with the human manifestation of him. He thus is inwardly the beginning and outwardly the end of the prophetic cycle which he synthesizes and unifies in his being. Outwardly he is a human being and inwardly the Universal Man, the norm of all spiritual perfection.
http://www.islamia.com/the_last_prophet.htm

see also
http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/M_0299.htm

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Here we go again...

Check out these sites by Moslems using the word.
http://www.moslem.org/

American Moslem Foundation
http://www.oz.net/~msarram/
A German site...
http://www.moslem.de/

Here's another Moslem site using the term Moslem...
http://www.ranti.com/en/working_dress.html
This site gives advice on Moselm dress.

Another site talking about Moslem beliefs
http://www.experiencefestival.com/moslem_beliefs

Arabic News...
OIC exposes its actions to back Moslem minorities
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030408/2003040828.html

Yemen Times...
"On the occasion of the Holy Month of Ramadhan, aside from the worship rites and duties ascribed to the month for Moslems to engage in throughout the world, Ramadhan is also a month of reflection and meditation, in which Moslems should take a hard look at themselves."
http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=883&p=opinion&a=1

MOM, WHAT IS A MOSLEM?
http://www.balcad.com/mom.shtml

http://www.utc.edu/Faculty/Bill-Wright/mossci2.htm
is a secular site using the term in praising Islam.

and as you're into on-line encyclopeidas...
http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/X/X-M1oslem.asp
This encyclopedia site has lots of links to Moselm items, such as Moslem weddings.

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0009781.html
This one says it's just an alternative spelling

http://www.4panda.com/special/muslim/index.htm
This site gives Moslem tour packages (hate to sound incredulous, but they'd not be doing too much business if they were insulting their customers).

Both Moslem and Muslim are correct, but the second is now more common than the first. The term Mohammedan is considered offensive by many Muslims and is best avoided.
http://www.allwords.com/word-Moslem.html

I think you are too quick to jump to conclusions.I said SOME muslims find it offensive and that includes me.So even if the list of others you posted don't see anything wrong with it, they are the minority majority of Scholars even find the term pegorative and prefer (as i said about myself) to use the word muslim and the same goes gfor the term mohamedan there is a very small minortiy that would use that term as all muslim know we are not mohmamedan.Islam is not named after mohamed, Islam is not dead without Mohamed in the Equation. Christianity is not Christianity without Jesus.
So again i just want to say those who you have posted are minorities.
peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just

 

[Montalban]

I think you are too quick to jump to conclusions.

The only conclusion I've come to is you've not answered my question about you being a Moslem!

My citing of those examples is to show that Moslems don't have problems with the word.

Your claim that they are a minority is based on your claim that they are a minority.

You've left clues that you are despite your sig "James the Just" - when you said you were taking time off for Eid.

 

[NOTW]

I am not a moslem, I hate that word.It is Muslim.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the just

There is really not one right way of saying it or writing it.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Linguistically "moslem or moslim" is wrong and offensive. The distinct vowel "u" called "damma" has its purpose. If the word is pronounce with an "o" sub it changes the meaning of the word "muslim". Thats why many of us take if offensively and others who accept it are seeking means to compromize.

AS for the "misnomer" mohamadian and its variants, it is also offensive. We do not tend to be classified like other religions who are named after a person place or thing.

Calling us mohamadian, and its variants, is contradictory to our religious creed.

Would Christians like us to call them Chrestians ?