- Mar 16, 2004
- 22,024
- 7,364
- 60
- Faith
- Calvinist
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Democrat
The return of Christ is certainly foundational.End times are far from being the most important part of the Christian faith.
Upvote
0
The return of Christ is certainly foundational.End times are far from being the most important part of the Christian faith.
There is nothing in the text indicating some convoluted overlapping judgments, that's in an invention that simply distorts the natural narrative.The BoR is not written in Chronological Order sir. I will get back later on with the exact order it is written in, but I just don't get people who can't see the order is linear at times, then parenthetical at times.
Yes, but revelation is just one book. Revelation is written in chronological order, linear chronological order. Just like the Gospel of Luke is written in linear chronological order.
Each of Paul's letters individually unfolds in chronological order also. Paul makes one case builds on it to make another closes up with an exhortation. To prayer and Christian Piety say
each individual book of the Bible taken on its individual own unfolds chronologically
All of the text of the bible has to be considered because Revelation is not stand alone.However, the chronological order is important in setting the right context. It's a bit absurd to use the context of much earlier written texts instead of the latest written texts.
It is not going to happen - changing the bible to some other arrangement - because it is a flawed idea to begin with.If the Book of Revelation is a major issue enough among denominations disagreeing about the timeline of events, think about the issue of non chronological arrangement of NT books would pose. It actually makes a lot more sense to read NT by the chronological order of writing than the canon arrangement.
It actually brings whole new understanding and be able read books of the Bible that are very rarely preached in churches anymore!
Just not buying it, the way the book is organized as seals at the beginning, trumpets literally and textually right in the middle and vials of wrath at the end. Overlapping judgments happening together makes no expositional sense, to me at any rate.I agree with others who have stated that Revelation has chronological chapters building to a conclusion illustrating what is happening on earth in the future, interspersed with parenthetical chapters illustrating what is going on in heaven inbetween times. Think of the parenthetical chapters as intermissions in a play where the curtain goes down and actors come out to explain some of the background of what the audience has just been watching, or what they will be seeing soon.
Specifically about the order of events of the seals, trumpets and vials or bowls ...
John is called up to heaven to witness end times events. As the events beginning with Chapter 6 start to unfold here is what he witnesses:
Rev 6:1 And I saw when the Lamb (Jesus) opened one of the seals ...
Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal ...
Rev 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal ...
Rev 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal ...
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal ...
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal ...
Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal ...
Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded ...
Rev 8:8 And the second angel sounded ...
Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded ...
Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded ...
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded ...
Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded ...
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded ...
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial ...
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial ...
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial ...
Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial ...
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial ...
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial ...
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial ...
And ... And ... And ...
Following the syntax of the grammar, there can be no question that each seal opening, trumpet sounding and vial being poured out occurrs consecutively and in the order given, interspersed with activity of varying duration both on earth and in heaven. The seal openings in particular could only occur in consecutive order and one at a time because of the way that ancient scrolls were sealed as divisions, like chapters in a book.
Each trumpet sounding and poured vial heralded an event; which began to take place before the next sounding or vial.
Then it sounds like you agree with me. Maybe I misread your comment.Just not buying it, the way the book is organized as seals at the beginning, trumpets literally and textually right in the middle and vials of wrath at the end. Overlapping judgments happening together makes no expositional sense, to me at any rate.
For what you want to know and the concerns you have over the mark of the beast - you are getting a lot of bad advice in this thread of how to go about it.do you think the book of revelation is written in order?
The book of revelation is confusing to me.
No, it's not in order, and secondly its not confusing, people just can't understand it until they understand its encoded with the Old Testament.do you think the book of revelation is written in order?
The book of revelation is confusing to me.
Hello Doug, it is nice to meet you for the first time. I am glad to see that you are entusiatic about understanding End Times Prophecy, as it is a meaty and important subject, and I look forward to discussing those passages and more with you in the near future. In reading your response to the encouragement that I gave to the author of this thread, I must admit that I can't but but disagree with the disagreement, as the Godly advice with encouragement is in line with what Apostle Paul instructed to Timothy. Let's please allow for Apostle Paul's instruction given in the following passage with a highlight from chapter 3 to provide us the full clarification as to the importance of reading the entirety of The Holy Bible. In sharing the passage, I underlined key parts that deal specifically with this issue. This instruction that Apostle Paul gave by inspiration of The Holy Spirit is the best way for anyone to "famine proof" themselves for the hearing of the words of the LORD, and I will also add, "Occult proof" themselves and their family.No, that is a terrible approach. Reading the whole bible is too much. Start with a few prime chapters. Daniel 9:26-27 and Matthew 24:14-31, first. Then Ezekiel 38-39.
Then Daniel 7. Then Daniel 2. Then Revelation 13. Those are foundational and are plenty to get a person started. And can expand from there.
Welcome to this forum, Q-T. I should have said that in my first post to you.Hello Doug, it is nice to meet you for the first time. I am glad to see that you are entusiatic about understanding End Times Prophecy, as it is a meaty and important subject, and I look forward to discussing those passages and more with you in the near future. In reading your response to the encouragement that I gave to the author of this thread, I must admit that I can't but but disagree with the disagreement, as the Godly advice with encouragement is in line with what Apostle Paul instructed to Timothy. Let's please allow for Apostle Paul's instruction given in the following passage with a highlight from chapter 3 to provide us the full clarification as to the importance of reading the entirety of The Holy Bible. In sharing the passage, I underlined key parts that deal specifically with this issue. This instruction that Apostle Paul gave by inspiration of The Holy Spirit is the best way for anyone to "famine proof" themselves for the hearing of the words of the LORD, and I will also add, "Occult proof" themselves and their family.
2Ti 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
2Ti 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
2Ti 2:6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.
2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
.....
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I've always thought the judgments coming concurrently was hopelessly contrived, it never made a lick of sense to me. I'm not sure what your ideas are with regards to an exposition but my position is that they are in chronological order.Then it sounds like you agree with me. Maybe I misread your comment.
Thank you for the kind welcome. I contend that it is impossible to have full understanding of Daniel and Revelation without first patiently reading through the entirety of The Holy Bible with fervent prayer and diligence, as all that is contained therein are the very details of which is needed for full comprehension and understanding. I have done so, and have read many Books multiple times over, again, and again, and testify that I have been richly blessed with knowledge from the LORD, to not only understand what is written, but also with wisdom and discernment to understand the times in which we live. The LORD has given instruction for the poster, and us, in His written words: (These are but a few important hightlights; included is correction from Proverbs):Welcome to this forum, Q-T. I should have said that in my first post to you.
The problem with your approach is it takes a lifetime, and the original poster has issues for them specifically that need to be addressed right now. A plan of action for the original poster is in my post #52.
And how long do you think that would take the average person?I contend that it is impossible to have full understanding of Daniel and Revelation without first patiently reading through the entirety of The Holy Bible with fervent prayer and diligence, as all that is contained therein are the very details of which is needed for full comprehension and understanding.
That was the entire basis for my comment, so I agree.I've always thought the judgments coming concurrently was hopelessly contrived, it never made a lick of sense to me. I'm not sure what your ideas are with regards to an exposition but my position is that they are in chronological order.
Please allow for me to share an inspirational true story about a young man that was once lost that was raised up in the Occult with Gnostics that ever always wrested and perverted the words of God, that the young man was deceived by his entire childhood and young adult life. The young man read every book that was placed before him by the Gnostics that taught him "other gods", also being taught that Jesus wasn't God,hell didn't exist, and was kept busy ever learning, but never able to come to a full knowledge of the truth. He had Gnostified perversions of Bible, along with the hundreds of books put out to explain away The True and Living God of The Holy Bible. One day the young man had reached the end of his rope, and contiplated ending his life. But God the Father, being merciful, drew the young man to His son, Jesus for salvation, and put it into the young man's heart to read The Holy Bible, to seek the LORD for knowledge and understanding, to answer the young man's questions about who God really is, and is this life all that there is? As the young man read through the New Testament, he learned about what Jesus Christ did on the cross at Calvary. Something that he had been taught to be a lie all of his life by the Gnostics. The young man listen to every word that Jesus spoke, hanging on to every word, as his life hang in the balances. He also listened to Jesus' chosen Apostles, and after a period of time, the young man was on his knees asking Jesus for the miracles to open his eyes and ears, recognizing that he had been lied to all of his life, and that he was spiritually blind, deaf, and dumb, as he had previously blasphemed the Lord, and persecuted Christians. The young man went to the foot of the cross, with the faith of the size of the mustard seed, and asked Jesus Christ to save him. The young man was in tears at the moment of his conversion, and asked the Lord to show him what He had delivered the young man from, and to lead the young man into all truth. The young man, having full realization of the depths of deception that had blinded him all of his life, since birth, knew that he would only trust God and what is written in The Holy Bible, never again putting his faith and trust in man. The young man, being thirsty and hungry for the words of God, read through The Holy Bible, and learned that God saved and delivered him from the House of the Dead, where the dead resided, blinded by Satan, headed for hell. If you would ask that man that question, he would say to average person, "Take as much time as you need. Be patient, and don't be lazy. Don't take The Holy Bible for granted, and test EVERYTHING by what is written, not testing what is written by the words of men. Trust and believe in the LORD your God with your whole heart, leaning upon Him for teaching, guidance, wisdom, discernment, knowledge, and instruction, and remember to never lean upon your own understanding, and don't fall into the trap of trusting your own intellect, because the flesh is of the flesh, but the things of God are God's, and only God can bestow spiritual gifts, and true to the instruction in Proverbs, he will bless those that seek after Him."And how long do you think that would take the average person?