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Revelation chronological or not?
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"'Come out of her, my people,' so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
"he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger,"
"he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger,"
Does that sound like enough warning?
I read
#1 earthquake that begins the trumpets.
#2 earthquake that ends the trumpets.
Then the seven last plagues transpire right after that and end with the
#3 earthquake which is the biggest of all time.
Seven First Plagues are poured out with mixture. These are diluted with mercy, only 1/3 is destroyed.
The Seven Last Plagues begin with the same earthquake that ends the seven first plagues. These are the full strength plagues, no mercy, just complete destruction.
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Interplanner
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Vinsight,
if all you do is study the Rev (which is 90% of your attention), you will not know what is important to know. It will become a rubics cube and become a separate industry in itself. Switch over to Rom 2 for a year and you'll see what matters about the coming day of God's judgement. It is very humbling. There will be no "I know it all" things to be proud of, sorry.
if all you do is study the Rev (which is 90% of your attention), you will not know what is important to know. It will become a rubics cube and become a separate industry in itself. Switch over to Rom 2 for a year and you'll see what matters about the coming day of God's judgement. It is very humbling. There will be no "I know it all" things to be proud of, sorry.
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Interplanner
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It will take care of itself without us. Our work is to be fluent in the Gospel of justification, like Paul.
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John was in the spirit when he saw the events of Revelation. The way he wrote them down is the way he saw them not nessecarily the way they would unfold in John’s future. Example John saw the seals unfold 1 thru 6 and wrote down what he saw. Seal 6 parallels Jesus’s account in Mat 24.
When Matt 24:29 “ Immediately after the tribulation”
When Rev. 6:12 “when he had opened the sixth seal”
What Matt24:29 “shall the sun be darkened”
What Rev. 6:12 “the sun became black as sackcloth”
What Matt. 24:29 “the moon shall not give her light”
What Rev. 6:12 “the moon became as blood”
What Matt.24:13 “the stars shall fall from heaven”
What Rev. 6:13 “stars of heaven fell unto the earth”
What Matt.24:29 “the powers of the heavens shall be shaken”
What Rev. 6:14 “the heaven departed as a scroll”
What Matt.24:30 “then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn”
What Rev 6:15 “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains”
Chapter 7 John was shown a different scene, starting with the 4 angels, then the sealing of the 144,00. In John’s vision after he saw the 4 angels and the sealing of 144,00, he was then shown a multitude in heaven and the 24 elders and the 4 beasts. This does not mean everything in chapter 7 will happen after the first 6 seals it just means John was shown this scene after he was shown the scene of the 6 seals. Evidence for this is great multitude in 7:9 which it was revealed to John that they came out of great tribulation. This matches with those slain under the 5th seal, those overcome by antichrist in Rev 13:7.
Chapter six is an overview of the whole sequence 1st seal to the coming of Christ. Evidence is Matt 24 parallels to the 6th seal being immediately after the tribulation. Evidence ofChrist return’s at 6th seal and overlaps with the vials which are the wrath, is verse 16 “hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:”
Chapter 8 begins with the 7th seal which is only a 30 minute scene of silence in Heaven, no other info given , why speculate.
Verse 2 “And I saw” simply means John saw does not say trumpets happen after seals it just means he was shown the trumpet judgments after he was shown the seals. The seals are more general and an over view and the trumpets are more specific and overlap somewhere in the sequence of the 6 seals. Evidence for this will be shown in chapter 9.
Chapter 9 starts with 5th trumpet. Evidence the trumpets overlap the seals is begins in 9:14. Prepartion for the battle of armegeddon begins with the 6th trumpet, which is at the end, at the return of Christ.
Chapter 10 Begins talking about the 7th trumpet. Which is the last trump of 1 Corin. Evidence for this is 10:7 “, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets”. This chapter says only in the days of the voice of the 7th trumpet.
Chapter 11 the scene John is shown changes, further evidence this is just the way John saw these events, certain scenes overlap. Now we have the two witnesses. Their ministry is 3.5 years further evidence John saw these events in different scenes. There cannot be 3.5 years between 10:7 and 11:15. The 7th or last trumpets sounds here. Evidence that it is at the end just as the 6th seal is 11:15 “The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever” how can the this happen without the Lord’s presence on this earth? Further evidence is in verse 18, the dead judged, rewards given, and Christ destroys them that destroys the earth. Evidence He has returned here at the 7th seal which is at the end.
Chapter 12 is another scene John was shown, war in heaven. No evidence this chapter happens after the seals and trumpets. This has to be another overlap, just one more specific scene John was shown.
Chapter 13 John was show this scene about the false prophet and antichrist. Another 3.5 year period of time,mentioned, the time antichrist reigns. More evidence some of these scenes overlap.
Chapter 14 more about the 144,000. Mention of Babylon fallen. Just more scenes John was shown, these must overlap somewhere in the seals and trumpets. Verses 14-18 we have another reference to the return of Christ and Armageddon in verse 20. More evidence there is an overlap of events in Revelation.
Chapter 15 now John is shown the angels that have the vial judgements or the wrath of God or the wrath of the Lamb. Just one more overlapping scene. That will end in the return of Christ.
Chapter 16 John is shown the vials being poured out. Evidence these overlap with the seals and trumpets is in verse 12 preparation for the battle of armageddon same as in chapter 9, 5th trumpet.
Verse 16 battle fought Christ leads the fight so he must have returned, further evidence of an overlap. Verse 18 “voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake” Same event as 11:19 which is just another reference to the return of Christ another overlap. Verse 20 another reference to 6:14 more evidence of an overlap.
Chapter 17 another mention with more detail of Babylon fallen. More evidence of an overlap and the fact this book is not chronological.
Chapter 18 more on Babylon
Chapter 19 Babylon mentioned again. 19:11 Christ returns as in chapter 6,10,14 & 16 further evidence of an overlap. Verses 17-19 armageddon just as in chapters 9 & 16, just more evidence of an overlap.
I’ve posted all of this before some of it specifically to you. You may disagree and you may ignor it, but don’t say I’ve offered no evidence. The EVIDENCE is overwhelming. Just an overview much more could be said.
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Interplanner
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Many commentators remark on Mt 24 is that it has "layers" in which various aspects of the 1st century disaster are demonstrated: catastrophes, deceptions, persecutions, events in Jerusalem. All at the same time.
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The souls of them told to rest a while. The souls of all the dead in Christ. To be reunited with their glorified bodies at the resurrection. No one resurrected and taken back to heaven when Christ returns. Them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
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