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One reason for this thread is the following.
It is not only Amils who take Revelation 19:21 to mean there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming, there are also some Premils who take it to mean that as well. For example, Seventh Day Adventists. But not only those Premils, other Premils as well, who are not SDAs.
Therefore, though I am Premil not Amil, this is irrelevant and somewhat misleading since there are some Premils who interpret Revelation 19:21 in the same manner as most Amils do, thus not fair to those Premils by giving the impression all Premils interpret Revelation 19:21 in the same manner, that Zechariah 14:16 proves some are not interpreting Revelation 19:21 correctly.
Though, this thread involves Premil vs Amil, it doesn't involve that only. It involves anyone, whether Amil or Premil, who insists that Revelation 19:21 proves that there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming, therefore, Zechariah 14:16 is not a valid way to disprove that.
Which then leads to, is it really true that Zechariah 14:16 can't be used to disprove that Revelation 19:21 allegedly proves that there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming? Thus what I'm attempting to uncover throughout the thread. Is or is not Zechariah 14:16 a valid way to debunk how some are interpreting Revelation 19:21, that it allegedly proves that there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming?
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
And the remnant were slain--and all the fowls were filled with their flesh---vs---every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year
Unless one is maybe a Preterist, pretty much everyone else at least agrees that Revelation 19:21 is involving the bodily return of Christ in the end of this age and that what is recorded in verse 21 is one thing that happens once He returns.
But how should we be interpreting Revelation 19:21 in light of Zechariah 14:16? The first place to start is by establishing what era of time Zechariah 14:16 is involving. Is it involving the same era of time Revelation 19:21 is involving? Is it involving an era of time prior to when Revelation 19:21 is meaning? Is it involving an era of time post when Revelation 19:21 is meaning? Let's reason through some of Zechariah 14 to try and determine that.
Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
As to the day of the Lord meant here, what era of time does the NT indicate this fits during?
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
These are the main passages in the NT which mention the day of the Lord. Of course though, there are other passages in the NT which do not mention the day of the Lord, but that it is plainly obvious to a lot of us that it is involving this same day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night. One such passage is Matthew 24:34-39.
Obviously, regardless what era of time one applies Zechariah 14:1 to, Zechariah 14:16 is clearly meaning post that. That means when Zechariah 14:16 begins to come to pass, everything recorded in Zechariah 14:1-5 and Zechariah 14:12-15, these events are all in the past at this point. Which should basically mean Zechariah 14:16 is involving the same era of time Zechariah 14:6-11 is involving.
The question is, the era of time Zechariah 14:6-11 is involving, is that meaning before or after when Revelation 19:21 is meaning? If it is meaning before, that would indicate Zechariah 14:16 is involving an era of time prior to when Revelation 19:21 is meaning.
While OTOH, if the era of time Zechariah 14:6-11 is involving, that it is meaning after when Revelation 19:21 is meaning, this means that Zechariah 14:16 fits with an era of time post that of Revelation 19:21. Which then means we can't take Revelation 19:21 to mean every single lost mortal that was still alive when Christ returns since this would contradict Zechariah 14:16 and this part---every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year.
Is one going to argue that only the NT is holy writ and that the OT isn't? The idea is to square these passages, not have then contradicting each other instead, right?
I'm not done reasoning through Zechariah 14 yet, in order to establish when Zechariah 14:16 is meaning in relation to when Revelation 19:21 is meaning. This should be enough to get us started. And since Zechariah 14 involves prophecy, chronology of events are therefore relevant. For example, who would argue, and expect to be taken serious, regardless where one places Zechariah 14:2 in time, that verse 11 is chronologically meaning before verse 2 rather than chronologically after? No one, right? Thus chronology is relevant in Zechariah 14, otherwise it wouldn't matter where verse 11 fits in relation to verse 2.
It is not only Amils who take Revelation 19:21 to mean there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming, there are also some Premils who take it to mean that as well. For example, Seventh Day Adventists. But not only those Premils, other Premils as well, who are not SDAs.
Therefore, though I am Premil not Amil, this is irrelevant and somewhat misleading since there are some Premils who interpret Revelation 19:21 in the same manner as most Amils do, thus not fair to those Premils by giving the impression all Premils interpret Revelation 19:21 in the same manner, that Zechariah 14:16 proves some are not interpreting Revelation 19:21 correctly.
Though, this thread involves Premil vs Amil, it doesn't involve that only. It involves anyone, whether Amil or Premil, who insists that Revelation 19:21 proves that there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming, therefore, Zechariah 14:16 is not a valid way to disprove that.
Which then leads to, is it really true that Zechariah 14:16 can't be used to disprove that Revelation 19:21 allegedly proves that there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming? Thus what I'm attempting to uncover throughout the thread. Is or is not Zechariah 14:16 a valid way to debunk how some are interpreting Revelation 19:21, that it allegedly proves that there are no mortal lost survivors post the 2nd coming?
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
And the remnant were slain--and all the fowls were filled with their flesh---vs---every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year
Unless one is maybe a Preterist, pretty much everyone else at least agrees that Revelation 19:21 is involving the bodily return of Christ in the end of this age and that what is recorded in verse 21 is one thing that happens once He returns.
But how should we be interpreting Revelation 19:21 in light of Zechariah 14:16? The first place to start is by establishing what era of time Zechariah 14:16 is involving. Is it involving the same era of time Revelation 19:21 is involving? Is it involving an era of time prior to when Revelation 19:21 is meaning? Is it involving an era of time post when Revelation 19:21 is meaning? Let's reason through some of Zechariah 14 to try and determine that.
Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
As to the day of the Lord meant here, what era of time does the NT indicate this fits during?
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
These are the main passages in the NT which mention the day of the Lord. Of course though, there are other passages in the NT which do not mention the day of the Lord, but that it is plainly obvious to a lot of us that it is involving this same day of the Lord that comes as a thief in the night. One such passage is Matthew 24:34-39.
Obviously, regardless what era of time one applies Zechariah 14:1 to, Zechariah 14:16 is clearly meaning post that. That means when Zechariah 14:16 begins to come to pass, everything recorded in Zechariah 14:1-5 and Zechariah 14:12-15, these events are all in the past at this point. Which should basically mean Zechariah 14:16 is involving the same era of time Zechariah 14:6-11 is involving.
The question is, the era of time Zechariah 14:6-11 is involving, is that meaning before or after when Revelation 19:21 is meaning? If it is meaning before, that would indicate Zechariah 14:16 is involving an era of time prior to when Revelation 19:21 is meaning.
While OTOH, if the era of time Zechariah 14:6-11 is involving, that it is meaning after when Revelation 19:21 is meaning, this means that Zechariah 14:16 fits with an era of time post that of Revelation 19:21. Which then means we can't take Revelation 19:21 to mean every single lost mortal that was still alive when Christ returns since this would contradict Zechariah 14:16 and this part---every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year.
Is one going to argue that only the NT is holy writ and that the OT isn't? The idea is to square these passages, not have then contradicting each other instead, right?
I'm not done reasoning through Zechariah 14 yet, in order to establish when Zechariah 14:16 is meaning in relation to when Revelation 19:21 is meaning. This should be enough to get us started. And since Zechariah 14 involves prophecy, chronology of events are therefore relevant. For example, who would argue, and expect to be taken serious, regardless where one places Zechariah 14:2 in time, that verse 11 is chronologically meaning before verse 2 rather than chronologically after? No one, right? Thus chronology is relevant in Zechariah 14, otherwise it wouldn't matter where verse 11 fits in relation to verse 2.
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