Rev 17 is about Islam?

[zeke37]

new point of view, exploring......only exploring
I really don't know where all this is going to end at...
credit Walid Shoebat for most of this





Rev 17 mystery Babylon...
wilderness = desert

the mother of all harlots, the biggest, not all, but the mother of all.

location? ship masters of the red sea cried alas, alas
(Jer49:21, red sea...)

kings of the earth drink her wine...
abundance of wine out of the desert?
OIL!

reigns over the whole world...OIL!

USA (and the rest of the industrial world) and Saudi Arabia are buddies...OIL!

it can't be Rome, 'cause it's in the desert, close to the red sea

Isa21 desert of the sea

Rev6 martyrs
Rev17 blood of martyrs
Rev18 blood of prophets
Rev20, martyrs beheaded for Jesus,
who would be beheading who?
it's their way even today.

mecca, where they now worship the idol of Jupiter,
a meteorite with historic, biblical background
and connections to Lucifer

Mohammed, said no two religions could exist in Saudi Arabia
fundies take his words seriously.
recent call to burn all churches in SA

head wound is to an empire
not the hills of the Vatican or Rome
because 5 of those 7 hills never fell did they???

what empires have fallen?
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo Persia
Greece(given to 4 generals)
Rome
Turkish Ottoman

and the 8th is the 7th.

so the last one comes back as the end time beast.
current day Turkish Islamic fundamentalists

Jesus said Rev2 that Pergamos is the seat of Satan
that's Turkey
Turkey will be hurt but survive

Babylon in the bible includes Duma, and Duma is in Arabia...
so at least in ancient times Arabia was a part of Babylon/Babylonia

infact all the 7 controlled much of the same areas
here's a few overlapping each other


Isa21 mentions the players who are destroyed, as the great harlot,
the burden against Arabia,
and who does it? Edam and Media (Iran)
(Turkish pressure for Iran to strike the harot Saudi Arabia)

Babylon is fallen is fallen...is the Arabian harlot,
in bed for money OIL, destroyed by other Muslims (Iran)
because she lives in luxury and sleeps with us who need her desert wine (OIL)

compare the same wording in Rev14/18....

recent events are aligning Turkey and Iran.
what if the 7 year peace is only between Turkey and Iran

666 is not greek numbers/letters or words
it actually = Arabic words, there I no God but Allah
+ a Muslim crossed swords symbol

it's a jihad war badge/bandanna worn on a Muslim's head and/or arms

everything points to Muslims and Islam

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 said in post 1:

Rev 17 is about Islam?

Note that while Islam (and other false religions) are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just Islam. For Islam just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor is Islam the only religion by which people buy merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor is Islam the only religion under which all Christian martyrs have been killed (Revelation 18:24). Nor has Islam just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor has Islam been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3), and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

Also, it should be pointed out that the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), won't support Islam in its past and current form, insofar as Islam affirms that Jesus is the Christ (e.g. Koran 4:157, Koran 4:171), whereas the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And Islam affirms that Christ is in the flesh, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). And Islam affirms that the God of the Bible (YHWH) is the true God, whereas the Antichrist (like the Gnostics) will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And Islam (mistakenly) affirms that no man can be God, whereas the Antichrist will say that he's God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). And Islam forbids the worship of any images (Koran 21:52, Koran 6:74), whereas the Antichrist will have an image made of himself to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15). And Islam rejects Lucifer (Satan) as being evil, whereas the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9). So the Antichrist's religion during his 3.5-year worldwide reign won't be Islam in its past and current form, but a blend of Luciferianism and Gnosticism.

Nonetheless, before Lucifer gives the Antichrist power over all nations (Revelation 13:4-7), the Antichrist and the man who will be his False Prophet (Revelation 19:20), could at first pretend to wholly support Islam in its current form (as well as Christianity), in order to start gaining a worldwide following.

The beast which comes up out of the earth (Revelation 13:11-16) represents the individual man who will become the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a (secretly apostate) pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are we not all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Can't we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What's more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the 7 horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding 7 positions of power at the same time (cf. Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus. (But he won't say that he's Christ, for the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7.)

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times, Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

zeke37 said in post 1:

who would be beheading who?
it's their way even today.

Note that beheading isn't limited to Muslims. The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), who won't be a Muslim, could employ beheading as his preferred method of execution (Revelation 20:4) for the same reason that atheists employed beheading in the French Revolution (using guillotines): in order to instill terror in people who would oppose his rule. For beheading is the most graphic and bloody (i.e. the visually most shocking) way to kill people.

Also, the Antichrist could employ beheading for the same reason that the ancient pagan Romans employed it: because it's painless. The Romans employed it whenever they executed a Roman citizen, such as Paul the apostle (Acts 21:39, Acts 22:25-29), who was beheaded when he was executed by the Romans (Tertullian, Scorpiace, chapter 15). People who weren't Roman citizens, such as Jesus Christ and Peter the apostle, were executed by the very painful method of crucifixion (Tertullian, Scorpiace, chapter 15). I.e., the Antichrist could claim that he's beheading people because he's such a good guy, he doesn't want to cause them any pain; he just needs to remove them from the scene so they won't (as he could say) "hinder the progress of humanity to a higher spiritual level".

Also, the Antichrist could employ beheading because he could have grown up surrounded by Muslims. I.e. since his childhood, he could have been aware of beheading as being claimed to be a very religious act (i.e. in Islamic jihad: Islamic "holy war"). And the Antichrist himself could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). And the Druze religion is quasi-Islamic.

The Druze religion is different from Islam in that it's waiting for the 2nd coming of a God-man named "Hakim". The Antichrist's last name could be "Hakim", and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the 2nd coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover) and employ them as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates isn't even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who haven't been initiated into its highest level.

zeke37 said in post 1:

Jesus said Rev2 that Pergamos is the seat of Satan
that's Turkey

Revelation 13:2b refers to when Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9) will give the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) Satan's own earthly throne (seat) and power, so that the Antichrist will have power over all the nations of the earth (Revelation 13:7). This is what Satan offered Jesus, if he would worship Satan (Luke 4:5-7). In the first century AD, Satan's earthly throne was in the city of Pergamum (in what's now Turkey) (Revelation 2:12-13). Satan's earthly throne could be the Great Altar of Pergamum, also called the Pergamon Altar, which in ancient times was sometimes included as one of the 7 wonders of the world.

It may not be just a coincidence that shortly after the Pergamon Altar was moved to Berlin around 1900 AD, both World Wars were started from Berlin, or that "the Nazi-era architect Albert Speer used the Pergamon Altar as the model for the Zeppelintribüne, 1934-37. The Führer's pulpit was in the center of the tribune" (Pergamon Altar - Wikipedia) (quote has been deleted for some reason). When the Antichrist is given power over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7), his throne could be located in the center of the actual Pergamon Altar, which he could move from Berlin to a main temple to himself (and to Lucifer/Satan) in the literal, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq). For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

 

[Bible2]

zeke37 said in post 1:

what if the 7 year peace is only between Turkey and Iran

Regarding "the 7 year peace", are you thinking of Daniel 9:27a?

If so, in the preceding verse, Daniel 9:26, the original Hebrew word (karath, H3772) translated as "cut off" can refer to when a peace treaty/covenant is "made" (Genesis 21:27). The first century AD fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a was at the Crucifixion, when the true Messiah, Jesus, made the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17). The future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a will be when the Antichrist makes a peace treaty, which will be the fulfillment of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 and the league in Daniel 11:23, with a future, ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah in Jerusalem, after he and his followers are defeated by the Antichrist (Daniel 11:22-23). So the future fulfillment of Daniel 9:26a can refer to this false Messiah being "cut off" in the sense of being "covenanted", peace-treatied.

This treaty will allow this false Messiah and his followers to keep a 3rd Jewish temple which they will have built on Jerusalem's Temple Mount (after they or great earthquakes have destroyed the Muslim structures there), and to (mistakenly) continue to perform the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices in front of the temple for at least 7 years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims, so that the Muslims can rebuild the (by that time destroyed) Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. After "cutting" this treaty (Daniel 9:26a), the Antichrist could appear before the "many" (Daniel 9:27) nations represented at the U.N. General Assembly, and "confirm" (Daniel 9:27) that for at least 7 years he will keep this treaty with the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem, using this as purported proof to the world that he's (in his words) "a man of peace, and no Hitler".

In Daniel 9:27, "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" refers to when, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty of Daniel 9:26a,27a and Daniel 11:23a, the Antichrist will break the treaty, attack the 3rd temple, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices, place the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15), and then sit himself in the temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). Thus could begin the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

zeke37 said in post 1:

666 is not greek numbers/letters or words

Actually, it is.

The "666" in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual "man" who is the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the 3 Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the 3 obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by believers when the book of Revelation was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for believers, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all believers today wouldn't know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different believers would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If believers think that someone is the Antichrist, they need to check and make sure that his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it doesn't, then he isn't the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds that he might display. But even if someone's name adds up to 666, this doesn't mean that he's definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name which adds up to 666, even this doesn't assure that he's the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there won't be any room for doubt over whether or not he's the Antichrist; his identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).

zeke37 said in post 1:

everything points to Muslims and Islam

Actually, they're currently serving as a red herring for some believers who have been drawn away from the trail of the Antichrist's real religion of Gnostic Luciferianism.

 

[John S]

Revelations is NOT about Islam.

 

[tranquil]

new point of view, exploring......only exploring
I really don't know where all this is going to end at...
credit Walid Shoebat for most of this





Rev 17 mystery Babylon...
wilderness = desert

the mother of all harlots, the biggest, not all, but the mother of all.

location? ship masters of the red sea cried alas, alas
(Jer49:21, red sea...)

kings of the earth drink her wine...
abundance of wine out of the desert?
OIL!

reigns over the whole world...OIL!

USA (and the rest of the industrial world) and Saudi Arabia are buddies...OIL!

it can't be Rome, 'cause it's in the desert, close to the red sea

Isa21 desert of the sea

Rev6 martyrs
Rev17 blood of martyrs
Rev18 blood of prophets
Rev20, martyrs beheaded for Jesus,
who would be beheading who?
it's their way even today.

mecca, where they now worship the idol of Jupiter,
a meteorite with historic, biblical background
and connections to Lucifer

Mohammed, said no two religions could exist in Saudi Arabia
fundies take his words seriously.
recent call to burn all churches in SA

head wound is to an empire
not the hills of the Vatican or Rome
because 5 of those 7 hills never fell did they???

what empires have fallen?
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo Persia
Greece(given to 4 generals)
Rome
Turkish Ottoman

and the 8th is the 7th.

so the last one comes back as the end time beast.
current day Turkish Islamic fundamentalists

Jesus said Rev2 that Pergamos is the seat of Satan
that's Turkey
Turkey will be hurt but survive

Babylon in the bible includes Duma, and Duma is in Arabia...
so at least in ancient times Arabia was a part of Babylon/Babylonia

infact all the 7 controlled much of the same areas
here's a few overlapping each other


Isa21 mentions the players who are destroyed, as the great harlot,
the burden against Arabia,
and who does it? Edam and Media (Iran)
(Turkish pressure for Iran to strike the harot Saudi Arabia)

Babylon is fallen is fallen...is the Arabian harlot,
in bed for money OIL, destroyed by other Muslims (Iran)
because she lives in luxury and sleeps with us who need her desert wine (OIL)

compare the same wording in Rev14/18....

recent events are aligning Turkey and Iran.
what if the 7 year peace is only between Turkey and Iran

666 is not greek numbers/letters or words
it actually = Arabic words, there I no God but Allah
+ a Muslim crossed swords symbol

it's a jihad war badge/bandanna worn on a Muslim's head and/or arms

everything points to Muslims and Islam

The harlot of Babylon is God's church who "marries" evil people (false prophets) so as to get "oil and wine". Read Hosea 2, it's pretty explicit.

I'll point you to this graph of the Dan. 7 4 beasts.

Each phase will have its own "mark of the beast". Hopefully, you can see that when Walid Shoebat says "Islam is the beast", this notion merely sets people up for the next one. For example,

The US is slated to go into 2nd or 3rd world status soon, because the bear/ Russia is to become the new "head of gold". Who is aligned with Russia? Iran, with its oil, will be the false prophet when the US dollar is not the worlds reserve currency anymore. This Iranian false prophet will offer up the infamous "666".

Then, shortly thereafter, the EU will become the "head of gold" after the "Ram versus the Goat" battle of Dan 8. People will think they have put all their "end of the world" thinking behind them - and look, isn't it convenient that Obamacare is starting to be mandated at the exact same time... See how easy it will be?

The US will be decimated by "Muslim terrorists" late 2013. Everyone will hate Muslims, hate the "666" mark of the beast, only to be tricked into the RFID chips with Obamacare which is the "mark of the beast" of the 3rd phase, 3rd beast, the EU 4 headed Leopard dominated by the Catholic church.

 

[John S]

The U.S. will be decimated by Muslim terrorists late 2013.
Obamacare is the Mark of the Beast.

Complete and utter hogwash.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello

Quote
Then, shortly thereafter, the EU will become the "head of gold" after the "Ram versus the Goat" battle of Dan 8. People will think they have put all their "end of the world" thinking behind them - and look, isn't it convenient that Obamacare is starting to be mandated at the exact same time... See how easy it will be?
End Quote

WOW!!!!!!! SO a Republican and Democratic President and a shifting congress give trillions of tax payer's dollars to the puppet masters in the banks and wallstreet. Yet you are worried about Obamacare. You seriously need to stop watching the 24 hour news services and get some deprogramming my brother in Christ.

Read this written in the Bankers magazine in 1925 and maybe it will open your eyes.

"Capital must protect itself in every possible manner by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile and more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers. This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world. By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished.”

You have been programmed from childhood to play the game they have set up for you.

11: And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:12: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13: And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

4: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Open your eyes my Brother

 

[zeke37]

The harlot of Babylon is God's church who "marries" evil people (false prophets) so as to get "oil and wine". Read Hosea 2, it's pretty explicit.

Hosea speaks after Israel and Judah's split,
just before Israel goes into captivity by the Assyrian
Israel is the harlot in Hosea, but as u will note,
she comes back to Him at the end, so she is not destroyed

Hos 2:7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.

14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the Lord, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

3:4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.
​

but Rev17's harlot is dealt with as thus...

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
​

now read Isa21 and see who is doing it. Iran against Arabia

I'll point you to this graph of the Dan. 7 4 beasts.

Each phase will have its own "mark of the beast". Hopefully, you can see that when Walid Shoebat says "Islam is the beast", this notion merely sets people up for the next one. For example,

sorry. there are things in that graph I cannot agree to, timeline wise.
way too much to go into with out totally derailing this thread

The US is slated to go into 2nd or 3rd world status soon, because the bear/ Russia is to become the new "head of gold".

doubt it, but ya never know.

Who is aligned with Russia? Iran, with its oil, will be the false prophet when the US dollar is not the worlds reserve currency anymore. This Iranian false prophet will offer up the infamous "666".

it's an Arabic sentence and symbol.

there is not God but Allah, crossed swords
​

john never saw Greek numbers or words 600, 60, 6
and he never claimed that they were Greek letters.
in fact, it makes way more sense to render number as multitude of people
instead of an integer

he saw Arabic letters, and not knowing what it said,
he wrote down what he saw, drew it/copied it.

we even find similar writings on Akbar's flag
here's a few examples of similar writings

Then, shortly thereafter, the EU will become the "head of gold" after the "Ram versus the Goat" battle of Dan 8. People will think they have put all their "end of the world" thinking behind them - and look, isn't it convenient that Obamacare is starting to be mandated at the exact same time... See how easy it will be?

so iyo the statue of Dan2, all exist at the same time?

The US will be decimated by "Muslim terrorists" late 2013.

isn't it late 2013 now?

Everyone will hate Muslims, hate the "666" mark of the beast, only to be tricked into the RFID chips with Obamacare which is the "mark of the beast" of the 3rd phase, 3rd beast, the EU 4 headed Leopard dominated by the Catholic church.

well everyone has an opinion.

 

[brian57]

It is said that Mohammad wrote the Koran whilst under the guidance of the archangel Gabriel.

Paul tells us that Satan can become an angel of light if he so chooses , therefore I have no doubt that Islam is the tool by which Satan is using to fulfil his own ends.

Revelation 12:17-And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Although it is not in their Koran , yet moslems believe and will tell you that it was Ishmael whom Abraham was about to sacrifice for God on Mt Moriah. {Temple Mount}

It's not hard to see what's going on here and the importance to moslems of the land promised to Abraham , Jerusalem and the temple mount area.

BTW....Walid shoebat is not the only one speaking about Islam , Joel Richardson and others are saying the same.

 

[ebedmelech]

Revelation 17 is not Islam...it is Jerusalem...the very city God where the temple was built and God chose to put His name there.

When you read Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel, and see all the times God prophesied Jerusalem as a harlot...HOW DO YOU MISS THE CONNECTION?

Especially when God prophesied to Moses that Israel would "play the harlot" in Deuteronomy 31:16
16 The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

This is why Jerusalem is "MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS" of Revelation 17.

This link is a search of Jeremiah through Bible Gateway:

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: Harlot

Jerusalem is "MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS".

 

[interpreter]

new point of view, exploring......only exploring
I really don't know where all this is going to end at...
credit Walid Shoebat for most of this





Rev 17 mystery Babylon...
wilderness = desert

the mother of all harlots, the biggest, not all, but the mother of all.

location? ship masters of the red sea cried alas, alas
(Jer49:21, red sea...)

kings of the earth drink her wine...
abundance of wine out of the desert?
OIL!

reigns over the whole world...OIL!

USA (and the rest of the industrial world) and Saudi Arabia are buddies...OIL!

it can't be Rome, 'cause it's in the desert, close to the red sea

Isa21 desert of the sea

Rev6 martyrs
Rev17 blood of martyrs
Rev18 blood of prophets
Rev20, martyrs beheaded for Jesus,
who would be beheading who?
it's their way even today.

mecca, where they now worship the idol of Jupiter,
a meteorite with historic, biblical background
and connections to Lucifer

Mohammed, said no two religions could exist in Saudi Arabia
fundies take his words seriously.
recent call to burn all churches in SA

head wound is to an empire
not the hills of the Vatican or Rome
because 5 of those 7 hills never fell did they???

what empires have fallen?
Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Medo Persia
Greece(given to 4 generals)
Rome
Turkish Ottoman

and the 8th is the 7th.

so the last one comes back as the end time beast.
current day Turkish Islamic fundamentalists

Jesus said Rev2 that Pergamos is the seat of Satan
that's Turkey
Turkey will be hurt but survive

Babylon in the bible includes Duma, and Duma is in Arabia...
so at least in ancient times Arabia was a part of Babylon/Babylonia

infact all the 7 controlled much of the same areas
here's a few overlapping each other


Isa21 mentions the players who are destroyed, as the great harlot,
the burden against Arabia,
and who does it? Edam and Media (Iran)
(Turkish pressure for Iran to strike the harot Saudi Arabia)

Babylon is fallen is fallen...is the Arabian harlot,
in bed for money OIL, destroyed by other Muslims (Iran)
because she lives in luxury and sleeps with us who need her desert wine (OIL)

compare the same wording in Rev14/18....

recent events are aligning Turkey and Iran.
what if the 7 year peace is only between Turkey and Iran

666 is not greek numbers/letters or words
it actually = Arabic words, there I no God but Allah
+ a Muslim crossed swords symbol

it's a jihad war badge/bandanna worn on a Muslim's head and/or arms

everything points to Muslims and Islam

You are right about the 7 heads of the beast, and Islamic conquerors being the 7th head of the beast. They trampled Jerusalem for 1260 years as prophesied. But the last head is Hitler whose Third Reich is the third head # 6 of the 666 trilogy.
You are also right about the 7th head of the beast (Muslims) playing a lead role in the Battle of Ar Mageddon. Their time is up, but Muslims want to rule Jerusalem again, and are hell bent on starting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which is now unfolding.

 

[zeke37]

Revelation 17 is not Islam...it is Jerusalem...

it is the house of Israel, of the past, and Judah too
but that house of Israel was north of Judah,
a region populated by Muslims today.

the wilderness is not Jerusalem,
the wilderness is always specifically apart from Jerusalem

the very city God where the temple was built and God chose to put His name there.

I do not read of any temple or Jerusalem mentioned in Rev17
it is only your speculation,
and I am debating whether that line of thought sill has validity for me,
as it did in the past.

but I keep seeing Muslim/Islam everywhere

When you read Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel, and see all the times God prophesied Jerusalem as a harlot...HOW DO YOU MISS THE CONNECTION?

God calls more than just Jerusalem, a harlot.
the house of Israel is the harlot in many OT prophesies

This is why Jerusalem is "MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS" of Revelation 17.

i'm certainly wiling to accept that,
but u have not yet shown why?

This link is a search of Jeremiah through Bible Gateway:

BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: Harlot

Jerusalem is "MYSTERY BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS".

maybe.
but your search parameters were limited to Jer,
and i'd rather take it fro the whole, if that's ok.

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Harlot&searchtype=all&version1=9&language1=en

 

[Bible2]

tranquil said in post 5:

Everyone will hate Muslims, hate the "666" mark of the beast, only to be tricked into the RFID chips with Obamacare which is the "mark of the beast" of the 3rd phase, 3rd beast, the EU 4 headed Leopard dominated by the Catholic church.

Regarding "the RFID chips with Obamacare which is the 'mark of the beast' ", note that while the Antichrist (who isn't Obama) could force everyone to receive an injected RFID microchip, which could be used as both an identification tag and a debit card, the microchip would be separate from the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 16:2, Revelation 13:16-18). For Revelation 13:17b-18 shows that the mark won't be a microchip, but only the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) name or a representation of the gematrial number of his name (666).

Also, it will be visible to people, so they can easily tell (in every situation, even one without electricity) whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). It will be visible also because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows that the mark will be placed only "on" (epi), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma, G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (i.e. the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what had been shown just previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they're loyal worshippers of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning that the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning that it will be placed on the right hand of some people and on the forehead of other people.

Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark won't be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17), and they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image, for those who agree to do those things (even if they're Christians) will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), whereas those Christians who refuse to do those things, even though they will be beheaded, will subsequently be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient church of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death, their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palm (cf. also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28, Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their forehead, thinking (mistakenly) that they're fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one to cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus returned (but he won't say that he's the Christ, for he and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh: 1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people, it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the 6th letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it's transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, two thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

In an awful coincidence (or maybe it's not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the world at the end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16,17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

The "WWW" which has been placed on many web addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (i.e. they have a "||" at the beginning, middle, and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Lucifer will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist placing his "brand" on everything, like a rancher places his "brand" on all his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 isn't fulfilled by some web addresses having "WWW", nor by some products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes, for Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism. The Antichrist will be both a Luciferian, a worshipper of Lucifer/Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist won't pretend that he's YHWH, just as he won't pretend that he's Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his mistaken Gnostic doctrine) from being the Christ.

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 10:

Revelation 17 is not Islam...it is Jerusalem...the very city God where the temple was built and God chose to put His name there.

Note that while the corrupt aspects of Jerusalem (and of other cites) are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of Jerusalem. For Jerusalem just by itself doesn't reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor is Jerusalem the only place where people buy merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor has Jerusalem just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor has Jerusalem been continuously supported by the empires of fallen man throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" represents all of mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3), and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

In Revelation 11:8, the great city is Jerusalem, where Jesus was crucified. But in Revelation 21:10, the great city is New Jerusalem, which is now in heaven. And in Revelation 14:8, Revelation 17:18, and Revelation 18:10-21, the great city is the symbolic harlot/city of Babylon. When it's destroyed, it will be found no more at all (Revelation 18:21), forever (Revelation 19:3), unlike Jerusalem, which was found again after its only-temporary destruction in 70 AD.

The 10 kings of the Antichrist's (future) empire will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the earth (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number six in English gematria), at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). They could do this under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his 10 kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all our great cities, all our magnificent systems. Let us break all our chains of attachment to this vile physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at his 2nd coming, Jesus (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat the world's armies, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the bottomless pit during the subsequent 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15). And Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the 1,000 years and subsequent events are over (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a new heaven (a new first heaven, a new sky/atmosphere for the earth) and a new earth (a new surface for the earth) (Revelation 21:1). And then God will descend from the 3rd heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem, to live with saved humanity on the new earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

ebedmelech said in post 10:

When you read Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel, and see all the times God prophesied Jerusalem as a harlot...HOW DO YOU MISS THE CONNECTION?

Note that passages like Ezekiel 16 don't require that Jerusalem alone must be the entirety of what the symbolic "Babylon" in Revelation chapters 17-18 represents, just as, for example, Nahum 3:4 doesn't require that Nineveh alone (Nahum 1:1) is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". Similarly, Isaiah 23:15-16 doesn't require that Tyre alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Ezekiel 23:4-8,44 doesn't require that Samaria alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Jeremiah 3:6-7 and Hosea 4:15 don't require that the northern kingdom of Israel alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Ezekiel 20:30 and Ezekiel 43:7 don't require that the house of Israel alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Hosea 5:3 and Hosea 6:10 don't require that Ephraim alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". Instead, the corrupt aspects of all of these, and of all other cities and nations throughout the earth and throughout history, can be included as only parts of what Revelation's "Babylon" represents.

 

[Bible2]

interpreter said in post 11:

You are right about the 7 heads of the beast, and Islamic conquerors being the 7th head of the beast.

That could indeed be right.

For the 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires that had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

interpreter said in post 11:

They trampled Jerusalem for 1260 years as prophesied.

Regarding the 1,260 days, 42 months, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they're all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days, and the 70 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11-12 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5).

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters were never fulfilled during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

interpreter said in post 11:

But the last head is Hitler whose Third Reich is the third head # 6 of the 666 trilogy.

Note that the "666" in Revelation 13:17c-18, in the original Greek Textus Receptus, isn't a trilogy of sixes ("6-6-6"), but 3 different Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma), the gematrial values of which (600, 60, and 6) must be added together to arrive at the total number (six hundred and sixty-six) which we represent today in decimal notation and Arabic numerals as 666. Before the West adopted decimal notation and Arabic numerals, the West used Roman numerals, in which the number six hundred and sixty-six was represented by DCLXVI.

(See also the 2nd section of post 3)

interpreter said in post 11:

You are also right about the 7th head of the beast (Muslims) playing a lead role in the Battle of Ar Mageddon. Their time is up, but Muslims want to rule Jerusalem again, and are hell bent on starting the Battle of Ar Mageddon which is now unfolding.

Note that the Bible doesn't refer to any "battle of" Armageddon, and that Revelation 16:16 won't be fulfilled until near the end of the still-future fulfillment of Revelation 16.

For the world won't experience the 7 last plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation chapters 15-16), the last stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, until after the never-fulfilled Revelation chapters 6 to 15 have been fulfilled. At the first vial, an awful sore will appear on only those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). At the 2nd vial, the sea will become like the blood of a dead man, and every living creature in the sea will die (Revelation 16:3). At the 3rd vial, all surface sources of fresh water will become blood (Revelation 16:4). At the 4th vial, men will be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). This would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma, which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic-pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future tribulation.

At the 5th vial, the whole world will be plunged into literal darkness (Revelation 16:10). At the 6th vial, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9), and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together in an attempt to defeat YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). The Euphrates will dry up so that the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (i.e. the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the riverbed and gather at the "place" called Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). Once they've gathered there, as only a staging area, with all the other armies of the world (Revelation 16:14,16), they won't wage battle there (that's why the Bible doesn't refer to a "battle" of Armageddon). Instead, they will travel south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

At the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20), and 100-pound hailstones will pummel the earth (Revelation 16:21). The 7th vial will also be when Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed (Revelation 16:19).

 

[Friar Tuck]

It's not hard to see what's going on here and the importance to moslems of the land promised to Abraham , Jerusalem and the temple mount area.

Yep dead right..

PITN: Abraham Was Not a Jew? - YouTube

 

[ebedmelech]

Note that while the corrupt aspects of Jerusalem (and of other cites) ...

This pretty much the futurist approach...but it is wrong. Revlation is an expanded prophecy of the Olivet Discourse given to John by the angel as Revelation 1:1 says. This is the climax to the judgment of Jerusalem as Jesus declared Jerusalem desolate in Matthew 23:37-39. Jesus then explains it to the disciples in Matthew 24:15-51 which focuses on Jerusalem. From Jerusalem's destruction as well as the destruction of the temple Jesus is making a profound statement that Israel/Jerusalem is being judged for their repeated spiritual adultery. God does that throughout the OT prophets, and particularly through the prophet Hosea.

You left the path of Ezekiel 16 when you said "and other citeis" Bible2! Name any city God prophesies to. This prophecy is against Jerusalem, and goes on to mention the divided kingdoms of Judah and Israel (Samaria). Other cities mentioned are those they went into spiritual adultery with by worshiping their idols.

Note that passages like Ezekiel 16 don't require that Jerusalem alone must be the entirety of what the symbolic "Babylon" in Revelation chapters 17-18 represents, just as, for example, Nahum 3:4 doesn't require that Nineveh alone (Nahum 1:1) is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". Similarly, Isaiah 23:15-16 doesn't require that Tyre alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Ezekiel 23:4-8,44 doesn't require that Samaria alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Jeremiah 3:6-7 and Hosea 4:15 don't require that the northern kingdom of Israel alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Ezekiel 20:30 and Ezekiel 43:7 don't require that the house of Israel alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". And Hosea 5:3 and Hosea 6:10 don't require that Ephraim alone is the entirety of Revelation's "Babylon". Instead, the corrupt aspects of all of these, and of all other cities and nations throughout the earth and throughout history, can be included as only parts of what Revelation's "Babylon" represents.

You're pretty much reading into the prophecy instead of allowing the prophecy of Ezekiel 16 to say what it says.

Let's look at the first two verses of Ezekiel 16:
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
2 “Son of man, make known to Jerusalem her abominations
3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem, “Your origin and your birth are from the land of the Canaanite, your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite.

So you were saying?

Ezekiel 16 is speaking to Jerusalem and Israel (Samaria) only! It mentions Israel (who had already been exiled) because Jerusalem/Judah are guilty of the very same sins as Israel.

To go and try to say it "doesn't require" is pretty much to go off on your own tangent Bible2. They are both guilty of spiritual adultery and God is making His case by the mouth of Ezekiel! To assert this speaks of anyone other than Judah and Israel is nonsense. The prophecy is pretty clear Israel and Judah are sisters who are harlots.

To assert anything more is just wrong!

Ezekiel 16:60-63 prophesies of the New Covenant...which is to come is Jesus!

 

[Bible2]

ebedmelech said in post 17:

Revlation is an expanded prophecy of the Olivet Discourse given to John by the angel as Revelation 1:1 says.

Regarding "Revelation is an expanded prophecy of the Olivet Discourse", that's right, with regard to Revelation chapters 6 to 19.

And note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring to only the single 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall, for it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple complex map insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

ebedmelech said in post 17:

Revlation is an expanded prophecy of the Olivet Discourse given to John by the angel as Revelation 1:1 says.

Regarding "as Revelation 1:1 says", in that verse, as in Revelation 1:3 and Revelation 22:10, "shortly" and "at hand" can be understood in the same manner as "Surely I come quickly" in Revelation 22:20, which refers to Jesus' still-unfulfilled 2nd coming. I.e., shortly/at hand/quickly in these verses can be understood from the viewpoint of God, not men (2 Peter 3:8-9).

Also, from the viewpoint of men, part of what Revelation chapters 2-3 foretold could have begun unfolding "shortly" (Revelation 1:1,3) after John saw his Revelation vision. For the letters to the 7 literal, first century AD local church congregations (Revelation chapters 2-3) in 7 cities in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:11b) could have foretold a first century AD persecution (Revelation 2:10, Revelation 3:10) under the Roman Emperor Domitian which happened shortly after John saw his vision around 95 AD, near the end of Domitian's reign (Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:30:3c). But even all the (to us) still-future events of the tribulation and subsequent 2nd coming of Revelation chapters 6 to 19 will unfold "shortly" (Revelation 1:1,3) or "quickly" (Revelation 22:20) after John saw his vision. For from the viewpoint of God, even the passing of some 2,000 years is like the passing of only two days (2 Peter 3:8). Christians should look at the future fulfillment of Revelation chapters 6 to 19 from the viewpoint of God, not men, for whom the passing of some 2,000 years seems like a long delay for its fulfillment (2 Peter 3:9).

Other books in the Bible contain prophecies of events that wouldn't occur for 3,000 to 4,000 years. For example, Ezekiel prophesied of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel chapters 38-39, Revelation 20:8-9) some 3,600 years before its (still future) occurrence. For Ezekiel gave that prophecy some 600 years before Jesus' first coming, but it won't be fulfilled until some 1,000 years after Jesus' (still future) 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:10). Also, God prophesied Jesus' spiritual defeat of Satan at the Crucifixion (Genesis 3:15, Hebrews 2:14) some 4,000 years before its occurrence. And Isaiah prophesied God creating a new heaven and earth (Isaiah 66:22, Revelation 21:1-8) some 3,700 years before its (still future) occurrence. For Isaiah gave that prophecy some 700 years before Jesus' first coming, but it won't be fulfilled until some 1,000 years after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 21:8).

ebedmelech said in post 17:

This is the climax to the judgment of Jerusalem as Jesus declared Jerusalem desolate in Matthew 23:37-39.

Matthew 23:38 refers to the spiritual desolation of Jerusalem because of its rejection of Jesus (1 John 5:12b, cf. Galatians 4:25), whereas Matthew 23:39 refers to the future salvation of all the unbelieving elect Jews in Jerusalem at Jesus' 2nd coming, when they will see him in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:26-29).

ebedmelech said in post 17:

Jesus then explains it to the disciples in Matthew 24:15-51 which focuses on Jerusalem.

Just as Matthew 24:2 wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD, so Matthew 24:15 wasn't fulfilled in 70 AD.

In Matthew 24:15, Jesus is referring to Daniel 11:31.

Regarding the "abomination of desolation", Daniel 11:31 was typically fulfilled by the abomination of desolation in 1 Maccabees 1:54, which occurred in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 2nd Jewish temple in Jerusalem in the time of Antiochus IV. But per Jesus' statement in Matthew 24:15, the church will see the abomination of desolation in Daniel 11:31 fulfilled (antitypically) in the future, when the church will see the abomination of desolation "stand" "in" the holy place (of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem). This future abomination of desolation could be a standing, android image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) which his followers ("they") will put in the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31) to be worshipped (Revelation 13:15), after "they" have stopped the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices which the ultra-Orthodox Jews will have restarted in front of the temple (Daniel 11:31). This image will "pollute" the holy place of the temple (Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist will then fulfill Daniel 11:36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 by sitting himself (at least one time) in the temple and proclaiming himself God. By the power of Satan (the dragon, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will then rule and be worshipped by all the nations of the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18), and will physically overcome Biblical Christians in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, from the day on which (antitypically) "the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be 1,290 days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1,335 days" (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). Also, because the Antichrist will fulfill Daniel 11:31 antitypically (Matthew 24:15) and will fulfill Daniel 11:36 for the first (and only) time, then he will also fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 (the first part of it antitypically, and the rest for the first and only time) when he arises on the world stage, for that passage refers to the career of the same man. And since the Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 11:21-45 when he arises on the world stage, then just preceding his arising on the world stage, Daniel 11:13-19 could be fulfilled antitypically by an Iraqi Baathist General completely defeating and occupying Israel and Egypt with a huge Iraqi Army (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17 the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

ebedmelech said in post 17:

Jesus then explains it to the disciples in Matthew 24:15-51 which focuses on Jerusalem.

Regarding "which focuses on Jerusalem", and regarding the reference to "Judaea" in Matthew 24:16, note that this doesn't have to mean first century Judaea. For there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) still today. They contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church will reach every nation of the earth (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16 of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution) would apply to believers around the world.

Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up, they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of food, water, warm clothing, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all those in the church that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

ebedmelech said in post 17:

To assert this speaks of anyone other than Judah and Israel is nonsense.

Note that no such assertion was made. What was shown was that other scriptures (i.e. besides Ezekiel 16) show that harlotry includes Gentile regions as well, not just Jerusalem, as you mistakenly claimed.

ebedmelech said in post 17:

Ezekiel 16:60-63 prophesies of the New Covenant...which is to come is Jesus!

Amen, in that the making of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31,33) was fulfilled at Jesus' crucifixion (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17), just as its being made with the houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31,33) has been fulfilled (Acts 2:5,36-41, Romans 11:1,17,24). And the New Covenant being not according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32) has been fulfilled (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17). And the New Covenant law of Jesus being written on the hearts of believers (Jeremiah 31:33) has been fulfilled (Romans 6:17, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 6:2). And "they shall teach no more every man his neighbour" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:27). And "they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:13). And "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:12).

 

[Interplanner]

Bible2 says above:
And note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers

Who are you speaking for? There is nothing true about this. You really are a 2nd Bible.

The harlot was Jerusalem, but history can repeat itself, or nearly so.

 

[ebedmelech]

Regarding "Revelation is an expanded prophecy of the Olivet Discourse", that's right, with regard to Revelation chapters 6 to 19...

I'm not going over this again with you Bible2. Hold on to what you think...mt responses is...NO.

Note that no such assertion was made. What was shown was that other scriptures (i.e. besides Ezekiel 16) show that harlotry includes Gentile regions as well, not just Jerusalem, as you mistakenly claimed.

Note that as I said the prophecy of Ezekiel 16 speaks for itself...you cannot find any other nations named except those that Judah and Samaria are guilty of harlotry with. You already know this though...and since you can't refute the response you try to argue from the silence of the passage.

Amen, in that the making of the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31,33) was fulfilled at Jesus' crucifixion (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17), just as its being made with the houses of Israel and Judah (Jeremiah 31:31,33) has been fulfilled (Acts 2:5,36-41, Romans 11:1,17,24). And the New Covenant being not according to the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Jeremiah 31:32) has been fulfilled (Hebrews 7:18-19, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17). And the New Covenant law of Jesus being written on the hearts of believers (Jeremiah 31:33) has been fulfilled (Romans 6:17, Ephesians 6:6, Galatians 6:2). And "they shall teach no more every man his neighbour" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:27). And "they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:13). And "I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jeremiah 31:34) has been fulfilled (1 John 2:12).

You have to understand both houses of Israel rejected their Messiah...yet the New Covenant is too ALL which includes ALL.

Israel/Jerusalem DID NOT KNOW THE TIME OR THEIR VISITATION...Luke 19:39-44.