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PsychoSarah

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Currently, I am an atheist trying to regain my faith in humanity as a whole. I thought talking to people of various religious faiths would be helpful, but as of yet there isn't a forum here that allows for advice from everyone. I am not looking into any religion specifically, so why must is restrict what I say to the Exploring Christianity forum when I am exploring more than Christianity?
 

~Anastasia~

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There are possibly members of other religious faiths than Christianity here, but I have seen very few. I do know there are atheists, yes. But you're looking for input from Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and so on?

I have seen a very few. I guess it's a question if they see your posts or not. The replies are supposed to be by Christians, but I see this disregarded.

You could always try posting in one of the forums like "How CF works" near the top of the home page to see if there's a better forum for you to discuss the matters you want in? I'm still pretty new here, so I'm not really sure myself. I tend to sometimes not get the answers I want from the forums I need to post in, but you can't control who will reply to you.

I hope you find what you need.
 
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Willie T

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Currently, I am an atheist trying to regain my faith in humanity as a whole. I thought talking to people of various religious faiths would be helpful, but as of yet there isn't a forum here that allows for advice from everyone. I am not looking into any religion specifically, so why must is restrict what I say to the Exploring Christianity forum when I am exploring more than Christianity?
Seriously, why would you expect, or even imagine "faith in humanity"?
 
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PsychoSarah

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As far as faith in humanity goes, I would much rather believe that people are capable of overcoming the odds and being good than believe that without faith in some deity, all of humanity is sinners who will burn for eternity. Does anyone really have a problem with that?
 
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Willie T

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As far as faith in humanity goes, I would much rather believe that people are capable of overcoming the odds and being good than believe that without faith in some deity, all of humanity is sinners who will burn for eternity. Does anyone really have a problem with that?
Well, as Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for you?"

Isn't one of the main things Atheists say, "Just look at this world, the evil of humanity... and you expect me to believe in a God?"

I, too, would like believe in people being good.......... but my eyes see the same things yours do.
 
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~Anastasia~

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As far as faith in humanity goes, I would much rather believe that people are capable of overcoming the odds and being good than believe that without faith in some deity, all of humanity is sinners who will burn for eternity. Does anyone really have a problem with that?

I won't say a problem with that. We all know right from wrong, and can agree (in many cases) what behaviors are good and kind. I believe God made us that way.

Most of us TRY to be good, even apart from God. I've known a great many atheists who were very proud of their ability to be generally good, apart from God.

It's not that, as a Christian, I see the whole of humanity as a teeming mass of sin, committing nothing but evil acts. It's simply that God's own standard, according to the Christian faith, is perfection. None of us is perfect, so we needed Jesus to reconcile us to God.

But I'd have to agree "faith in humanity" is tricky, depending on what you mean by it. The fact is, you can't depend on any person to never fail, because we all do, sooner or later, in some way or another. Even Christians. Maybe I'm talking about something different than what you meant though.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Well, as Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for you?"

Isn't one of the main things Atheists say, "Just look at this world, the evil of humanity... and you expect me to believe in a God?"

I, too, would like believe in people being good.......... but my eyes see the same things yours do.

Ah, Willie, sorry, I wasn't arguing with you. I know you're tough though.

And yes, especially if I look over the whole world and what makes the news, I can cry every day over the evil that continually happens. I am just being my usual idealistic self, lol.

:)
 
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~Anastasia~

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Well, evil acts get more ratings in the news than good ones do, overall, I would say that the vast majority of the population is roughly neutral, rarely or occasionally going out of their way to be good or evil.

You may be right. We tend to be influenced by what we know.

I would have said most people are roughly good, or try to be, and a very few go out of their way to be evil.

Even people I know who might be considered by many to be the "worst of sinners" are usually just unsaved people, doing the best they can, and trying to survive and get their needs met in this world. They are rarely trying to be evil.

(Though I have known a few that purposely set themselves to be evil - they seem to essentially enjoy hurting people, as far as I can tell.)
 
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doomsayer2

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There is a big difference in having faith in humanity as a whole or even a majority,and believing in those few who do go out of their way to do good. But those humanitarian charities and philanthropists are in the small minority. And many of the wealthy non-christians will only give to secular based causes,such as the ever popular breast cancer research you see ads of on many products now. I mean if THAT is what society sees as most important then i would certainly agree that humanity as a whole is not really worth preserving. Which is exactly why God has set a cut off date,probably in the very near future,such as a 70-year generation. But that is another subject altogether.
 
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dhh712

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As far as faith in humanity goes, I would much rather believe that people are capable of overcoming the odds and being good than believe that without faith in some deity, all of humanity is sinners who will burn for eternity. Does anyone really have a problem with that?


Without God, not without faith, people will burn for eternity which is subject to a score of interpretations. Of course we as humans would want to believe people are capable of overcoming all odds and being good in and of themselves. It is easier to feel this way when one has lived what is sometimes called a sheltered life (one which is a good portion free from the common miseries/evils of human nature). Not that this can't be done without that. It is just easier to see the taint of sin when one has experienced first-hand (or some empathetic people can experience this vicariously) people killing each other in heinous ways or subjecting them to starvation or extreme privation (the main example I am attempting to portray here are those such experiences which are commonly encountered in war).

You realize then that a faith in humanity is subject to eventually crumble because it is based upon nothing; it does not exist. Only a revelation by the Holy Spirit will convince one of the thorough corruption which has come upon the world by sin; thus, one can be deprived of faith in humanity yet that does not necessitate by that realization a faith in the God of the Bible.

This is all I have time for; I may have some comments later on, I may not. Sorry for being so rushed! The only other thing I will quickly add is that all the goodness one encounters in the world is by God (it is all from His blessing upon the world), that is why it is such misery to think of a world without Him entirely.
 
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doomsayer2

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First off i respect the integrity of the question which implies humanity is really at fault,rather than religion and "god" being to blame for many of the world's problems.
But i would respectfully disagree that our existence does mostly harm,even if we do our share at times.
But as a believer i feel we have been "preserved" thus far simply until all souls have been born in the flesh,which is basically the idea of "pre-existence" with God. Another topic won't go into here,but that basically states each individual is born into whatever situation they have "earned" in the first earth age. I know this is far out idea even to many Christians.
Regardless,our main reason for being here is to prove our worth in God's eyes and whether we will love and accept Him or not,as many did not or have not yet in that age past. So yes i believe humanity is worth saving as least in God's eyes.
As far as what we do in this life with any such good deeds,well they may not always be as "righteous" as we might see them. Which brings me back in a roundabout way to the issue of who we choose to help and how we go about it. I personally try to see what is important to God through the Bible and the acts of Jesus. So then feeding the poor would be very important as well as healing the sick,blind,lepers,etc.

Even in the old testament several examples such as Psalms-82:3,112:9,and Proverbs-31:9 to name a few.
So then,how important is actually trying to find a cure for what's proven an incurable disease? All i know for sure is at least 200,000 more people are expected to die from it this year alone,along with all the other types of cancer. Personally,i would rather my money go to a cause that would have an immediate impact on society rather than hope my donation will matter to anyone,other than a scientist in a laboratory.
So considering that,i would like to believe most people would be more interested in those causes they know can make a tangible difference to even one person. Unfortunately,i'm afraid most people will support what they personally identify with without really questioning the usefulness of it.
All i know is i can help the homeless a lot easier and more directly than i can anyone else. And it's that phrase "the poor in spirit" that Christ used to describe those who deserve our help as much as anyone,and a part of humanity that is certainly worth preserving.
just my 2 cents worth...

{BTW-if by "restriction" you mean from other forums,it's probably because this is like there own social club and they don't want any troublemakers ruining there rhetorical discussions. so i guess one bad apple at some point messed it up for the rest?}
 
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RCF

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But, if you have no faith in the value of humanity as a source of goodness, then why should humanity be preserved? What is the point of continuing our existence if it mostly does harm?

This is such an interesting statement. As MC Hammer would say, let's "break it down".

Humanity as a source of goodness. Well, it is a source of goodness. It is also a source of evil. Not simply are we simplistically oppositional is our society, we have many variances such as strength, courage, weakness and fear. But humanity, in my opinion as a whole, is a source of self preservation. We react to stimulus that act on us. We learn from our experiences, and try to improve our lot in life. But humanity, without deity, is simply people trying to get to the next day. All sorts of people in a great big earthen stewpot, swimming around, keeping their head above water.

Why should humanity be preserved? Because it does, and will do so until something greater than humanity changes things. Of course, humanity has the option of unpreserving themselves when science and technological growth exceeds the growth of the moral compass and ability to self moderate.

I think that is our greatest gift and our worst detriment, self preservation. We want what is best for our selves and our family and friends and our state and our country and our hemisphere,and our world and our solar system and our universe and so on. All the later can be pitched when what's best for our own personal lives gets called into question. Not that hard to forget about universal well being if our own life must change, negatively, or increase our burden of work to make it so. The same argument holds true until you get on down the list. That is where things get interesting.

Some people will throw out everything down to their own state, while others may stop with only themselves. Without the guidelines Christians find in the Bible, selfishness is the only logical answer for humanity. How selfish depends directly on the individual's perception of his area of responsibility and how safe their environment.

Feeding others that can offer you nothing in return doesn't compute. It might be nice to help out a widow if it doesn't put me out too much money, time, or really anything that is too important for me to part with. I call this the warm and fuzzy syndrome.

And if times get really tough, as in great depression tough, then people, without moral conscience, have to figure out how far up that scale to push to get what they need. This leads to intimidation tactics, hostility, and other rotten stuff. You only do what you have to to survive. It's easy to rationalize it if you have to do it to survive, or maybe to feed my family, or maybe take care of my own self and business. It's a sliding scale that is deferent for everyone.

These are things going on in humanity in a micro and macro sense, constantly.

Historically, we see micro examples of humanity rising and falling. Greece, Rome, France, Great Brittain, USA, all are examples of greatness begetting greatness, humanity building upon itself, and varying degrees of that greatness not being enough to sustain itself indefinitely.

But when you break it all down, individually, systematically, I think you will find, that the answer to your question is that when we stop being good enough, long enough, humanity will not sustain. Whether the goodness of humanity comes from God through Jesus, or some faith of mankind; when things are no longer good enough, they fail.

Ask Stanley Kirk Burrell about his music career and you'll probably agree.

RCF
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Currently, I am an atheist trying to regain my faith in humanity as a whole. I thought talking to people of various religious faiths would be helpful, but as of yet there isn't a forum here that allows for advice from everyone. I am not looking into any religion specifically, so why must is restrict what I say to the Exploring Christianity forum when I am exploring more than Christianity?

You are right to be cynical. Man is a dangerous critter and much of the 'good' he does is out of necessity and greed for gain, not any kind of altruism. Watch yer back I say.
 
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Sayre

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As far as faith in humanity goes, I would much rather believe that people are capable of overcoming the odds and being good than believe that without faith in some deity, all of humanity is sinners who will burn for eternity. Does anyone really have a problem with that?

Sarah, I noticed you removed your signature. I think that was a wise idea, because those statements you had were cheap shots and made you seem as though you just wanted to belittle fundies rather than engage meaningfully.

As far as the above quote, I believe it to be a false dichotomy. It is entirely possible that we can have hope for redemption, and at the same time, be driven to treat our fellow man well. In fact I would claim that it should be that way, because being redeemed tells us that we are of value, and we should respect that value within others.

Finally, not everyone believes in hell. I don't. So I am not motivated to avoid it. Nor do I think that you or I are destined for it.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Finally, not everyone believes in hell. I don't. So I am not motivated to avoid it. Nor do I think that you or I are destined for it.

:thumbsup: True. The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torment.
 
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chrisstavrous

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Currently, I am an atheist trying to regain my faith in humanity as a whole. I thought talking to people of various religious faiths would be helpful, but as of yet there isn't a forum here that allows for advice from everyone. I am not looking into any religion specifically, so why must is restrict what I say to the Exploring Christianity forum when I am exploring more than Christianity?
Yes its very hard to regain your faith in humanity when you have been taught by the bible that all people are evil. I wish I had an answer for you why we are all sh#tty, but I don't and I doubt anyone does either.
 
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