Responsible Drinking and Underage Persons

[tigercub]

What does this mean to you? (I am referring to alcoholic drinks)

Also, what do you think of persons under the legal age drinking alcohol? I am pretty sure it's still legal for underagers to drink if the alcohol is given to them by their parents (and they are supervised by their parents)

Personally, I am of the 'close the door and they'll open a window' opinion. My own mother allowed me to have a drink from about the age of 14, but I was only allowed one, and I had to stay under her supervision. I was taught from an early age about safe drinking, safe sex and general personal safety. Subsequently, I rarely drink, and when I do I never overindulge. I thank my mother for instilling in me a sense of 'just because everyone else does stupid things, doesn't mean I should!' I never felt the need to rebel, because if I wanted to do something, we would always find a compromise on it, whereas if mum had said no...I might have found a way to disobey (as teenagers often do)

My best friend wasn't so lucky, her mother was of the 'lock the doors and bolt the windows' opinion....my friend had her first child at 16 (was pregnant at 15) and frequently overindulges in alcohol.

So should it be made illegal for all persons under the legal age to drink alcohol, even if given to them by their parents? Or should we put more effort into teaching our youth about responsible, safe drinking?

 

[ScMay]

Personally, I am of the 'close the door and they'll open a window' opinion. My own mother allowed me to have a drink from about the age of 14, but I was only allowed one, and I had to stay under her supervision. I was taught from an early age about safe drinking, safe sex and general personal safety. Subsequently, I rarely drink, and when I do I never overindulge. I thank my mother for instilling in me a sense of 'just because everyone else does stupid things, doesn't mean I should!' I never felt the need to rebel, because if I wanted to do something, we would always find a compromise on it, whereas if mum had said no...I might have found a way to disobey (as teenagers often do)

My own childhood was incredibly similar. I never felt the 'need' to rebel, my parents gave me trust and in return asked only for reasonable responsibility. I was allowed to drink in my teens under supervision, however here I was a little different than most - I turned them down! I think part of it was that a) I was mature in some ways to see the negatives of drinking b) didn't feel the need to experiment and c) I knew that when I wanted to I could, so there was no rush. So in the end I never really drank very much till I was 18.5 and though I have drunk too much occasionally since then I have recognised this and have never done anything I have really regretted or forgotten what I have done.

I think it is a strong indication of the benefits of being open with your children and letting them learn gradually through trust and responsibility rather than forcing them to rebel an learn unsupervised.

My best friend wasn't so lucky, her mother was of the 'lock the doors and bolt the windows' opinion....my friend had her first child at 16 (was pregnant at 15) and frequently overindulges in alcohol.

While I don't know anyone personally with such a story it is something I hear all too often about friends of friends etc. I have one friend who grew up in a very conservative area, no sex ed, very dictatorial about such things and the result? About 1/3 (I think) of the girls ended up pregnant before they hit 18, luckily my friend wasn't one of them and had very benign rebellions.

So should it be made illegal for all persons under the legal age to drink alcohol, even if given to them by their parents? Or should we put more effort into teaching our youth about responsible, safe drinking?

I think it should stay legal, it is a handy way to teach children if they want and banning it is not going to stop any abuse of alcohol. That said I think it should be illegal (I think it already is) for a parent to supply the child of another persons child with alcohol.

 

[foxsta]

Whilst it was not exactly encouraged in our house hold, my parents weren't strictly conservative and all, ie sex talks were seen as necessary etc. Yeah, and there has been no real rebellion here...not regarding these issues anyway. I'm not a big fan of the drinking underage and a strong advocate of 'you don't need alcohol to have fun'

 

[Lee_Lee]

I think the law is ok the way it is, I don't think that young people should be encouraged to drink or provided with alcohol.

As with everything in life it is all about balance...the authoritarian way of parenting is only going to create a rebel who will go out and drink, not because they want to, but just because you told them not to. Whereas the overly permissive parent gives the child no boundaries and the child struggles then to identify right and wrong. Further, this type of parent can inadvertently communicate a lack of love to the child because the child feels like the parents don't care enough about what they do.

The above are the two extremes, more then often parents fall in between the above. I believe its about being honest and factual with your children. Informing them of the negatives of drinking too much and the postives of drinking and when to drink. I think a little bounded autonomy can be a good thing in this situation, allowing them to have a drink of special occasions, under your supervision from 16 onwards is prob a slow introduction into it........

However, I think any more alcohol then that is more then introducing, in my opinion it may be considered to be pushing. And I think anything under 15 is really to young to be opening that world up to the young person...it is most definately good to start at that age or younger talking about these issues but in terms of giving a child a drink at this age, I don't think that is responsible or developmentally helpful to the child emotionally or physically.

Yeah but it is an interesting topic, I mean in other countries of the world it is very normal for children to grow up with having alcohol with dinner....I guess the only issue there is that we live in a very different culture that unfortunately does not holistically promote that usage.

- LeeLee.

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

My own childhood was incredibly similar. I never felt the 'need' to rebel, my parents gave me trust and in return asked only for reasonable responsibility. I was allowed to drink in my teens under supervision, however here I was a little different than most - I turned them down! I think part of it was that a) I was mature in some ways to see the negatives of drinking b) didn't feel the need to experiment and c) I knew that when I wanted to I could, so there was no rush.

I have pretty much the same experience – parents allowed me to drink at home under supervision. However I believe that it’s also the influence of parents as role models that gives us our attitude - my parents drank, but were never drunk.
As a result I’ve never seen the attraction of being drunk, sick and passed out so I’ve never done it.

 

[Lee_Lee]

TOP POINT.....the whole of parenting is really about what example and actions the parents set, children tend to do what they see rather then what they are told and they are very observant...

So if the parents are responsible with alcohol and the child sees this you are on your way....YAY.

-LeeLee.

 

[WESTERNdeitySIXmoths]

rather than making underage drinking illegal, it should be the burden of parents to prevent their children from drinking if they don't want them to

and if the parents need to employ a tool such as the threat of a higher authority (e.g. government) to influence their children, they need to concern themselves with learning how to be better parents, rather than reach out the govt. for help that would affect others, imo

 

[Neenie1]

rather than making underage drinking illegal, it should be the burden of parents to prevent their children from drinking if they don't want them to

and if the parents need to employ a tool such as the threat of a higher authority (e.g. government) to influence their children, they need to concern themselves with learning how to be better parents, rather than reach out the govt. for help that would affect others, imo

OK, so I am assuming you don't have children?

Thankfully mine are both too little to be involved with alchohol and sneaking out late at night, but there are some kids that no matter what you do you can't control them, because they find a way to defy the boundaries and limits you have set.

 

[tigercub]

OK, so I am assuming you don't have children?

Thankfully mine are both too little to be involved with alchohol and sneaking out late at night, but there are some kids that no matter what you do you can't control them, because they find a way to defy the boundaries and limits you have set.

So your solution is to...expect the Govt to reprimand and set limits for your children? The parenting is up to the parent, not the Govt. The more people rely on them to make the rules, the more personal freedoms they will have to remove from us in order to keep us all safe!

If we act like incompetent 3 year olds, they're gonna treat us like that... (not aimed at anyone is particular)

Let's not take away the freedom currently available to all parents. As SCMay Trogdor and I have each said, our respective parents allowed us alcohol in controlled circumstances, which affored each of us a responsible and mature attitude toward alcohol. Would we each have this without our parents raising us the way they did in regard to alcohol? (Which they wouldn't have been able to do if the laws were stricter) Possibly not.

 

[WESTERNdeitySIXmoths]

OK, so I am assuming you don't have children?

?

what? i don't know, are you?

Thankfully mine are both too little to be involved with alchohol and sneaking out late at night, but there are some kids that no matter what you do you can't control them, because they find a way to defy the boundaries and limits you have set.

... so?

 

[Lee_Lee]

I think the conversation has got a little narrow- there are alot of factors that influence the way a young person is shaped. These include (but are not exclusive)

- Parent's discipline, lifestyle, boundaries (and I do agree this is one of the most important).

- Parents past history (been abused?, learnt good parenting habits or haven't).

-Child's nature (shy, loud, disability, race, male or female, siblings/only child etc, mental health issues).

-society (outside environment, systems within the soicety education, GOVERNMENT etc).

- Factors that effect the family (socio economic status, cultural status, make-up of family- single parent, step families etc)

I could go on all day.....but my point is that the success or failure of a young person is NOT based solely on the parents responsibility or the governments responsibility but a plethora of issues (some listed above).

I believe that if for whatever reason it reaches the point for government intervention into families then we should have the ability to do that in a fair way that ultimately promotes family reunification.

-LeeLee

 

[WESTERNdeitySIXmoths]

^ im curious to know what behaviours you think children of different races are predisposed towards, leelee...

if parents need help, is it inconceivable that the govt. could extend its hand to them without simultaneously snatching away the freedoms of others?

of course not... so don't argue that this is about protecting children- this is about certain people wanting to restrict certain activities for certain ideological reasons (a similar deception can be seen in stephen conroy's plan to enforce (opt-out) censorship of the internet in australia)

 

[Lee_Lee]

.....There are numerous different behaviours- I will give a example- in Indigenous culture there is a often a large respect placed on kinship groups and as a result the young people have respect for siblings and often have more responsibility to take care of younger siblings- thus their personal trait would be acting alot older/having responsibility in some areas that other children do not....

(this is a well rounded rule, but an example)....

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't understand it at all (it may be because I am tired OR it may be because my intellect is not making the connectionl, I'll try again later).

-LeeLee.

 

[tigercub]

if parents need help, is it inconceivable that the govt. could extend its hand to them without simultaneously snatching away the freedoms of others?

of course not... so don't argue that this is about protecting children- this is about certain people wanting to restrict certain activities for certain ideological reasons (a similar deception can be seen in stephen conroy's plan to enforce (opt-out) censorship of the internet in australia)

Agreed. It's a bunch of people who thing they are right, and trying to force what they think is right...on the rest of us. Things have gotten way out of hand in regards to child protection. I mean, parents can't even take cameras into some swimming centres anymore, so too bad if their kid happens to win first place in freestyle, coz you can't photogragh the moment.

Not all parents are inept at controlling their offspring, nor are all fathers paedophiles. So why should we treat all parents this way? Or why should we try to pass laws that will basically do so?

 

[WESTERNdeitySIXmoths]

"Indigenous culture"

leelee, you metioned a number of factors that together would provide a competent description of "culture"... then you also mentioned race- suggested that, before one learns of culture, before one even begins to develop as a human, one is predisposed towards certain behaviours because of their ethnicity

please clarify

 

[Lee_Lee]

.....perhaps I listed it in the wrong section, it very well could be in a context thing as opposed to a nature thing....however, it is my belief after working for many years with Idigenous people that they tend to have a more placid nature then non-Indigenous people, especially those from the Torres Strait.

IMHO.

-LeeLee.

 

[WESTERNdeitySIXmoths]

fair enough... i simply thought it odd of you to single out "race", but now i understand what you mean =)

 

[norbie]

Agreed. It's a bunch of people who thing they are right, and trying to force what they think is right...on the rest of us. Things have gotten way out of hand in regards to child protection. I mean, parents can't even take cameras into some swimming centres anymore, so too bad if their kid happens to win first place in freestyle, coz you can't photogragh the moment.

Not all parents are inept at controlling their offspring, nor are all fathers paedophiles. So why should we treat all parents this way? Or why should we try to pass laws that will basically do so?

You are so right, it's way out of hand, freedom is slowly going away. The Government interferes to much with our private lifes. Red tape and controll getting to much.
If some parents can't handle their children then they should take a parenting course.
I remember my boys, I never offered them beer which I always have with dinner. But I think my eldest was 10 when one day he ask me 'can I have a try?' and I said go ahead and his curiousity was satiesfied, and he does not drink today. That's what is it all about and not a hysterical 'oh no you are to young' and so on.
An other typical interference from the Government is with teaching in schools. I remember when I was in the lower grade 1 and 2 when a child fell down the teacher gave a blow to the wound and a big hug and it was good again: sadly today children miss out on this.

 

[tigercub]

An other typical interference from the Government is with teaching in schools. I remember when I was in the lower grade 1 and 2 when a child fell down the teacher gave a blow to the wound and a big hug and it was good again: sadly today children miss out on this.

Yeah, it is unfortunate that teachers are so limited in the ways they can comfort small children.

If the current level of security on such things was supposed to decrease the number of events where teachers act inappropriately with children...I don't think it has. If anything the new restrictions have increased the likelihood for accidental infractions (such as helping up a child who has fallen)

 

[peacechild4]

Thanks for your post tiger cub.. you have shown me what I am doing now is wise.. And it sounds like you had wonderful and loving parents!!

I have teen children.. our third will soon be another teen in the household at the end of this month..

This topic is very much where I am at right now..

Most all mid-teens drink alcohol now when they go out.. and sadly even at parties where there are older Christians... it is there.. well in my circles and according to my children.. and other young adults I have talked too.. I do wish that were not the case and that young people could see that you can still have fun without.. Especially Christians.. not that I think Christians shouldn't drink.. but when it comes to those who are mingling with younger people.. I kinda think that they should be setting limits and showing a good example to young people..

Our oldest is soon to be 17.. and he always tells me Mum there is/is not alcohol at the parties he attends.. I have agreed that he can drink a few.. only if their are responsible people present.. and they are not going from place to place.. Cars and alcohol don't mix.. So far because I have taken this stand.. he has shown me that he can be responsible and shares with me stuff I would not have told my parents when I was a teen!! He seems to respect me more!!

My parents would not let me drink at all.. and I rebelled against that and had a major alcohol problem as a young person..

I choose myself nowadays not to drink.. but my husband drinks.. So far I have not been comfortable to have our son drink here even with his father.. But because I know young people do so.. and our son knows I don't like it myself.. and I don't really like him choosing to drink.. But will allow it because he has to make such choices himself.. If I knew he was doing so to the detriment of himself.. drinking too much.. I would restrict him somewhat.. or not be so lenient to him going out.. But I am trying to show him respect and that I trust him and so far he has really shown me respect back.. As far as our younger teens.. I feel that they are too young at this point..

My parents did not even give me an inch.. they were very strict on me.. I do have limits as to how late he stays out.. and where he goes.. but I am trying to be as flexible as possible..