• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

respect and virginity

I don’t believe virgins are more respected.

  • don’t believe, virgins are more respected, yes

  • don’t believe, virgins are more respected, don’t know

  • do believe, virgins are more respected?


Results are only viewable after voting.

Mling

Knight of the Woeful Countenance (in training)
Jun 19, 2006
5,815
688
Here and there.
✟9,635.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
What makes [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tyness immoral?


In and of itself--nothing whatsoever. It can be used as a way to control people, though; and it can be a sign of a really poor self-image. In the first case, I'd say it's immoral because it's manipulative. In the second, I wouldn't say it's "immoral" so much as "unhealthy."

Having multiple partners can also be an extremely healthy experience for some people, though.

Question: considering that there's a gender-neutral term for "sleeping around" (promiscuity) why did you chose a term that almost always specifies females?
 
Upvote 0

Hipsterz

Active Member
Dec 11, 2010
265
8
✟444.00
Faith
Salvation Army
Marital Status
Married
In and of itself--nothing whatsoever. It can be used as a way to control people, though; and it can be a sign of a really poor self-image. In the first case, I'd say it's immoral because it's manipulative. In the second, I wouldn't say it's "immoral" so much as "unhealthy."

Having multiple partners can also be an extremely healthy experience for some people, though.

Question: considering that there's a gender-neutral term for "sleeping around" (promiscuity) why did you chose a term that almost always specifies females?

It is a word that can be applied to both sexes. If you think of women when that word is used you might want to look at yourself to see why your mind makes that connection.

All the reasons you mentioned as to why [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tyness is/can be bad also should explain why not being promiscuous can be or is considered good by some people.
 
Upvote 0

shinbits

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2005
12,245
299
43
New York
✟14,001.00
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
There are many reasons why God put the restriction on human sexuality. I can list a few here:
1. STD's (as already mentioned)
2. An emphasis on family (having the parents of children committed enough to marry and stay together for life, at the time under penalty of death).
3. The concept of marriage being a picture for us of God's relationship with His chosen people (see the writings of Paul and Hosea).

I'll also say that it takes a lot of courage and conviction to remain a virgin until marriage in today's culture. That level of perseverance *should* be respected.

Rachel
For number one, a boyfriend and girlfriend can get tested, then have a monogamous relationship. They need not get married.

For number two, the divorce rate in Christianity is far higher than the divorce rate for any other group of people, religous or not. Maybe Christiany's proved that marriage isn't the best model for a family.

And number three, as far as I know, isn't even in the Bible. There's no verse saying or even implying that marriage is a "picture of God's relationship with His people". This is a made up thing that came outside of the Bible.


Trust me, I'm not advocating sex before marriage, just pointing out that there's no objective reason to follow it. When sex laws first came about, the motivation behind it, as someone already said, were out of practical reasons, such as unwanted pregnancy, disease, etc, not of any real moral objectivity; why else do you think there was no penalty for men sleeping around, yet women were stoned?
 
Upvote 0

Mling

Knight of the Woeful Countenance (in training)
Jun 19, 2006
5,815
688
Here and there.
✟9,635.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
It is a word that can be applied to both sexes. If you think of women when that word is used you might want to look at yourself to see why your mind makes that connection.

Because 99% of the time it's used, it refers to women or teenage girls, and because the catch-22 of "If you don't, you're a frigid b****; if you do, you're a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]," has been a major source of teenage girl neurosis for most of the past century.

All the reasons you mentioned as to why [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tyness is/can be bad also should explain why not being promiscuous can be or is considered good by some people.

You can be manipulative without sleeping around. Poor body image manifests itself in many ways. What I said is that those things are bad, and that having multiple partners can be a part of those things.

I also specifically said, though, that having multiple partners can be downright good, and healthy. I have a close friend who is declining committed relationships because, right now, being free to "play" with anybody she wants, NSA, is really healthy for her. I agree 100%, and watching her grow and gain confidence right now is a beautiful thing.
 
Upvote 0

moonkitty

Senior Veteran
May 5, 2006
6,025
698
✟24,445.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
using commas is good yes?

what is the differences in understanding between this

respect and virginity
I really don’t, believe virgins are, more respected. I really don’t, feel a strong desire, to remain a virgin, for my wedding night. Because I really don’t, feel that marriage is important, in the modern world. Virginity really isn’t, important, because there really isn’t, many good reason, for a person to remain, a virgin. I really don’t, intend to remain, a virgin. A person really shouldn’t, remain a virgin, because I just don’t, feel a relationship between, respect and virginity.


and this

respect and virginity
I really don’t believe virgins are more respected. I really don’t, feel a strong desire to remain a virgin for my wedding night. Because I really don’t feel that marriage is important in the modern world. Virginity really isn’t important because there really isn’t many good reason for a person to remain a virgin. I really don’t intend to remain, a virgin. A person really shouldn’t remain a virgin because I just don’t feel a relationship between respect and virginity.


or this

respect and virginity

I really don’t
believe virgins are
more respected.
I really don’t
feel a strong desire
to remain a virgin
for my wedding night.
Because I really don’t
feel that marriage is important
in the modern world.
Virginity really isn’t
important
because there really isn’t
many good reason, for a person to remain
a virgin. I really don’t
intend to remain
a virgin. A person really shouldn’t
remain a virgin
because I just don’t
feel a relationship between
respect and virginity.



and this



respect and virginity
I really don’t, believe virgins are, more respected. I really don’t, feel a strong desire, to remain a virgin, for my wedding night. Because I really don’t, feel that marriage is important, in the modern world. Virginity really isn’t, important, because there really isn’t, many good reason, for a person to remain, a virgin. I really don’t, intend to remain, a virgin. A person really shouldn’t, remain a virgin, because I just don’t, feel a relationship between, respect and virginity.


It all looks like a bunch of gobbledygook to me.
 
Upvote 0

Tinker Grey

Wanderer
Site Supporter
Feb 6, 2002
11,686
6,192
Erewhon
Visit site
✟1,119,686.00
Faith
Atheist
What makes [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tyness immoral?

Can you answer your own question?

I don't know that I think [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]iness is inherently immoral. Convince me.
 
Upvote 0

Cabal

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2007
11,592
476
39
London
✟37,512.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
And number three, as far as I know, isn't even in the Bible. There's no verse saying or even implying that marriage is a "picture of God's relationship with His people". This is a made up thing that came outside of the Bible.

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish" (Ephesians 5:25-27).
 
Upvote 0

Deadbolt

Mocker and Scoffer
Jul 19, 2007
1,019
54
40
South beloit, IL
✟23,955.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
No one likes a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]

But in all seriousness, there's a ridiculous double standard going on as far as virginity is concerned. It's entirely sexist. If you are a man, virginity will get you laughed at, if you are a woman, not so much. Of course there's variation, I personally think primitive chauvinistic social mores should be abandoned altogether, and no one should be judged for their sexuality weather they've had sex with one partner or ten.
 
Upvote 0

benglobal

A square peg in a round hole.
Nov 3, 2010
180
4
✟22,849.00
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Single
Because 99% of the time it's used, it refers to women or teenage girls, and because the catch-22 of "If you don't, you're a frigid b****; if you do, you're a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]," has been a major source of teenage girl neurosis for most of the past century.



You can be manipulative without sleeping around. Poor body image manifests itself in many ways. What I said is that those things are bad, and that having multiple partners can be a part of those things.

I also specifically said, though, that having multiple partners can be downright good, and healthy. I have a close friend who is declining committed relationships because, right now, being free to "play" with anybody she wants, NSA, is really healthy for her. I agree 100%, and watching her grow and gain confidence right now is a beautiful thing.

What about the people she is playing with? Is thier confidence growing as quickly as your friends? Could you explain your version of NSA, not really a concept I understand. Does she draw up NSA contracts before she jumps into bed? I'm curious that's all, maybe you can TEACH me something about relationships, non-committal ones that is?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

MichaelHelp

Newbie
Aug 12, 2010
803
18
✟23,539.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I don't think virginity is respected in the U.S. Obviously men who are virgins are ridiculed, demeaned, joked about and are viewed as sad and pathetic. Women it's a bit more tricky, if a female wants to remain a virgin she won't be publicly humiliated like a man would be, but i don't know if that garners them any respect.
 
Upvote 0

benglobal

A square peg in a round hole.
Nov 3, 2010
180
4
✟22,849.00
Faith
Oneness
Marital Status
Single
We're loving it :D And not in the sleezy way (ie: not, just "hey, I'm getting laid.) I would still approve and support her if she decided she didn't want to play with me anymore, and I know the main other guy I've seen her with feels the same way (I'm using the word "play" because there's more going on than just what is usually considered "sex").

I wrote up a whole long thing a few days ago, then wasn't able to post it, but the point was that if you think of sex (or sexual play) not as giving a part of yourself away, but as creating a shared experience, it changes so much about sex.

Let's call my friend Stacy. Stacy and I--and Stacy and ...Bob-- are sharing positive experiences. I'm exploring a side of my personality that I haven't really been able to, before; she's knocking down her "carefully built house of self-shame" and learning to own her own desires; and Bob...I don't really know him well, but I've seen them together, and he's wonderfully sweet and playful with her, and clearly enjoying himself.

Think of other positive experiences you've had--even really, deeply important ones. Learning to overcome an obstacle in your life, or in yourself...discovering something that become a really fun or meaningful (or both) part of your life... Probably there were other people involved in them. Do you necessarily feel like they are bound to you? Would you feel cheated to learn that they introduced other people to your favorite hobby, or that they mentored somebody else, or had other really, really close friends?

Probably not, I'm guessing?

It's similar. We're approaching sex from the point of view of creating positive experiences for ourselves and each other. We're not making love, and we know that. We're having fun and doing important stuff, and improving ourselves as people, but we aren't dating, and don't have any say in other aspects of each others lives.

Contracts? Not literally, in the written sense, but it's actually not far from the truth. She's careful to make sure people know she's not looking for a real relationship right now.

The way she worded it with me was that she needs to just be her own permission to do what she likes for a while. She's coming from a history of being very passive and somewhat ashamed of her sexuality, so just owning herself, and being the only person who controls what she does and who she does it with, is a big, important step.

You probably need to understand the social group we're working with here, too. It's amazingly accepting and accommodating to just about any personality type, as long as you're generally kind and willing to take responsibility for yourself. If you like publicly stripping, that's cool, as long as you only do it in crowds where people are consenting to see you do it. If you need to go sit in a corner and rock back and forth for a while, in order to be comfortable out in public, that's cool too, as long as you don't blame the group for making you feel that away (unless they legitimately did). Probably, somebody will come over and sit with you, to make sure you're ok.

She has some issues. They are obvious, but she is working on them, and making huge strides. Embracing her sexuality is a big part of that. Being with her is like being with a butterfly in the moment when it looks at itself and realizes it's becoming a butterfly. The idea of being a part of that and providing a supportive environment is really appealing to a lot of people. Most do it by just being a part of that supportive environment, being her friend. A few of us are getting more..directly...involved. We know what we're getting into. And if anybody was drawn for the *wrong* reasons (mistakenly thinking that she's weak or easily manipulated) she'd be the first to realize there's a problem, and her friends and play-partners would be the first to initiate a group beat-down.

Which isn't to say that, in the moment, we're just trying to 'cure' her or anything. She's curing herself--we're tagging along for the ride, and because she's ridiculously fun to play with.

Whether I'm thinking more about the support angle or the "yay bondage!" angle depends on the moment, but both are always present.



Oh, so yeah...NSA...I use the phrase as shorthand for "we play and have sex, but we're not dating and not lovers." For real, I think the only situation where there really wouldn't be "strings" is where there's no emotion involved at all. Obviously, there are strings here--commitments-- but they are the sorts of strings that aren't unique to sex and dating. There's commitment as friends, and all sorts of commitments as a social group, to always make sure that we're acting in ways that are positive to everybody involved. But commitments specifically because some of us have been naked together? Not so much.

Cool, an enviroment of love and support and trust as you describe it is not really NSA so thanks for the detailed response.:)
 
Upvote 0
G

gattaca

Guest
There are many reasons why God put the restriction on human sexuality. I can list a few here:
1. STD's (as already mentioned)
2. An emphasis on family (having the parents of children committed enough to marry and stay together for life, at the time under penalty of death).
3. The concept of marriage being a picture for us of God's relationship with His chosen people (see the writings of Paul and Hosea).

I'll also say that it takes a lot of courage and conviction to remain a virgin until marriage in today's culture. That level of perseverance *should* be respected.

Rachel

i don't, agree with what you say.
 
Upvote 0

Robinsegg

SuperMod L's
Site Supporter
Mar 1, 2006
14,765
607
Near the Mississippi
✟85,626.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
i don't, agree with what you say.
I'm confused. You don't agree that STD's are a concern? You don't agree that Biblical culture had an emphasis on family? Or you don't agree that God created marriage to be a picture of His relationship with humanity? Maybe you don't agree that someone making a choice and then sticking to it (perseverance) in the face of difficulty is grounds for respect?
Rachel
 
Upvote 0

KarateCowboy

Classical liberal
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2004
13,390
2,109
✟140,932.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
respect and virginity
I really don’t, believe virgins are, more respected. I really don’t, feel a strong desire, to remain a virgin, for my wedding night. Because I really don’t, feel that marriage is important, in the modern world. Virginity really isn’t, important, because there really isn’t, many good reason, for a person to remain, a virgin. I really don’t, intend to remain, a virgin. A person really shouldn’t, remain a virgin, because I just don’t, feel a relationship between, respect and virginity.

Generally speaking, outside of marriage, the word for non-virgin starts with s and rhymes with 'gut' IIRC.
 
Upvote 0

Skaloop

Agnostic atheist, pro-choice anti-abortion
May 10, 2006
16,332
899
48
Burnaby
Visit site
✟36,546.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-NDP
Generally speaking, outside of marriage, the word for non-virgin starts with s and rhymes with 'gut' IIRC.

YDRC.

The term you bring up refers to someone who is promiscuous and, generally, not very discriminating in their choice of sexual partner, not just someone who engages in sex outside of marriage. If sex outside of marriage was all it took, over 90% of us would be "sguts."
 
Upvote 0

KarateCowboy

Classical liberal
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2004
13,390
2,109
✟140,932.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
YDRC.

The term you bring up refers to someone who is promiscuous and, generally, not very discriminating in their choice of sexual partner, not just someone who engages in sex outside of marriage. If sex outside of marriage was all it took, over 90% of us would be "sguts."

TYFAWM.

I think you're going by the low standard, low quality post Sexual Revolution definition. A lot of people these days do meet that definition. Definitely a case of moving the goalposts. I remember a friend telling me about racial attitudes in China. "We're not racist," they say. "It's just that people are different, so you have to treat them differently". Another example is when on campus there would be showing claiming that one in four women has been raped. Never mind that they stretched the definition of what rape is to include women who spread their legs for some stranger and then regretted it the next day.
 
Upvote 0