Requirements of Salvation

[FreeGrace2]

Of course the PROBLEM with your theory that God chose the elect based on knowing they would believe is the BIBLE claims God chose His elect NOT on their works (believing) but ONLY because of His Good Pleasure to show mercy.

I don't have a theory. I have biblical evidence for the fact that God, from eternity past, chose ALL believers for service. That's what Eph 1:4 says.

The PURPOSE of election is only on God that calleth:
Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

It is NOT of man that willeth or runneth.. but of GOD alone

The purpose of election is for service. God chooses who He wants to serve Him.

Rom 9:15-16
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

It is a GIFT of God (not of man's works) so none can boast

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

NO MAN can come to Christ (unless God "draws" them)

Joh 6:44
NO MAN can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The very next verse says specifically who is drawn to Jesus. Those who "listen and learn from the Father".

In fact, when Jesus' disciples realized He was teaching salvation by ELECTION many of His disciples immediately abandoned Him.[John 6:65-66]
Here are the 2 verses:
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

So, please show me the exact words that Jesus taught "salvation by ELECTION". I'm NOT seeing it.

After doing that, please study these 2 verses in the same context:

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”
71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

So, please explain how this choosing (election) is to salvation regarding Judas.

Now... why in the world would anyone abandon the Son of God?

Ask the second soil? But you don't have to ask. Jesus tells us why it did.

Of course the answer is obvious. They (like most men today)
did not want a salvation plan where God is Sovereign and saves
who HE ELECTS (with no regard to their actions).

This doesn't describe the second soil at all. Not even close.

Instead, they wanted a salvation plan where MAN is Sovereign and chooses
when/where/how he will save himself.

This would be those who never believed in Christ for salvation. They think they are able to meet God's requirement for entering heaven.

Any gospel that says MAN can save himself by saying a sinner's
prayer, or making an altar call, or receiving water baptism, or
repenting, or "accepting" Jesus or "believing in Jesus" is only
a "works gospel".

You were doing ok until you said "believing in Jesus". That is the EXACT answer Paul gave to the jailer who asked him what he MUST DO to be saved.

So your problem is with Paul, not me. You don't like Paul's response. I, however, agree with Paul's answer.

And God has made it very clear that any (real) repentance is the RESULT (not the cause) of regeneration.

Please quote any verse that says this.

Just imagine if you can save yourself by "accepting" Jesus or
by "believing" in Jesus... then all those suffering eternal torment
would be so STUPID they did not do the same "work" as you.

Why do you equate believing in Jesus as "work"? That is absurd. The Bible NEVER indicates that believing is a work that creates a debt or obligation.

You could legitimately BOAST about what a good choice you made... but the Bible says salvation is by God's election alone

No, the Bible NEVER says "salvation is by God's election alone".

1 Cor 1:22 says God is pleased to save those who believe. You figure it out.

so that NO MAN CAN BOAST.

Salvation is by grace through faith. NO mention of election.

Either the Scripture is wrong about election or YOU ARE WRONG.

No. The fact is; you are wrong.

I am sure the Scripture is not wrong.

My view is that of Scripture. But since you call my view wrong, you are calling Scripture wrong as well.

Where is the verse that says man is elected to salvation? If there was such a verse, you'd have quoted it already.

 

[5thKingdom]

I don't have a theory. I have biblical evidence for the fact that God, from eternity past, chose ALL believers for service. That's what Eph 1:4 says.
.

You said God chose the elect based on knowing they would believe.

I said:
Of course the PROBLEM with your theory that God chose the elect based on knowing they would believe

Now you move the goalposts and argue a different issue.
So much for your original statement.

.

 

[5thKingdom]

The purpose of election is for service. God chooses who He wants to serve Him..

I gave you this verse which tells us WHAT the PURPOSE
of election is:

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

If you want to disagree with the Bible... I do not care.
I will believe the Bible instead of your opinion.

.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I don't have a theory. I have biblical evidence for the fact that God, from eternity past, chose ALL believers for service. That's what Eph 1:4 says."

You said God chose the elect based on knowing they would believe.

Why bother quoting me and then ignoring what I post?

I NEVER said what you are claiming I said.

[QUOE]I said:
Of course the PROBLEM with your theory that God chose the elect based on knowing they would believe[/QUOTE]
OK, that's what YOU posted. You need to get your facts straight.

Now you move the goalposts and argue a different issue.
So much for your original statement.
.

You just showed that YOU made that claim. I didn't.

If I did, prove it with the post #.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"The purpose of election is for service. God chooses who He wants to serve Him.."

I gave you this verse which tells us WHAT the PURPOSE of election is:

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.

The purpose of election is NOT stated in this verse. What is stated is that election HAS A PURPOSE. What I have been saying is what the purpose IS; service.

I'm surprised that you haven't bothered asking me for evidence for my claim. So I'm going to just show you from Scripture. You are free to do with it what you want.

Paul was elected to service:

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Acts 27:23 - Last night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve stood beside me

Rom 1:9 - God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last nay God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

2 Cor 4:5 - For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2 Cor 11:8 - I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Gal 1:10 - A I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Gal 1:16 - to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man

Eph 3:7,8,9 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of His power 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— direct reference to Acts 9:15

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

Not only Paul considered his experience on the road to Damascus as an election, but Luke's account of what the Lord told Ananias proves it in Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

btw, in political elections, those who win are said to be appointed to office. And the Bible uses the same wording.

If you want to disagree with the Bible... I do not care.

Here's what I care about; truth. I hope you actually read all these verses about election, which PROVE that election is to service.

I will believe the Bible instead of your opinion.
.

I hope you are not bloviating and really read the verses and take them to heart.

 

[5thKingdom]

I said:
"The purpose of election is for service. God chooses who He wants to serve Him.."

The purpose of election is NOT stated in this verse. What is stated is that election HAS A PURPOSE. What I have been saying is what the purpose IS; service.

I'm surprised that you haven't bothered asking me for evidence for my claim. So I'm going to just show you from Scripture. You are free to do with it what you want.

Paul was elected to service:

Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

Acts 20:24 - However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me - the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

Acts 22:10 - "'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. "'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’

Acts 22:14, 15 - 14 “Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard.

Acts 26:16 - ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me.

Acts 27:23 - Last night an angel of the God whose I am and whom I serve stood beside me

Rom 1:9 - God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of His Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last nay God’s will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

Rom 15:17 - Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.

1 Cor 3:5 - What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

1 Cor 4:1 - This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

2 Cor 4:5 - For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.

2 Cor 11:8 - I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Gal 1:10 - A I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Gal 1:16 - to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man

Eph 3:7,8,9 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of His power 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Col 1:25 - I have become its (the Church) servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— direct reference to Acts 9:15

1 Tim 1:12 - I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me trustworthy, appointing me to his service.

1 Tim 2:7 - And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

2 Tim 1:11 - And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher.

Not only Paul considered his experience on the road to Damascus as an election, but Luke's account of what the Lord told Ananias proves it in Acts 9:15 - But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

btw, in political elections, those who win are said to be appointed to office. And the Bible uses the same wording.


Here's what I care about; truth. I hope you actually read all these verses about election, which PROVE that election is to service.


I hope you are not bloviating and really read the verses and take them to heart.

Yes, we all know we are commanded to preach during the
Great Commission... but that was NOT the question.

The question was simple: What is the PURPOSE of election?
Showing we are commanded to preach does NOT answer that.
But Romans 9:11 gives God's answer:

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that
the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, we all know we are commanded to preach during the
Great Commission... but that was NOT the question.

The question was simple: What is the PURPOSE of election?

I proved what the purpose of election is: it's for service. Didn't you read all the verses relating to Paul's election? I gave you 23 verses.

Showing we are commanded to preach does NOT answer that.

It doesn't "show we are commanded..". It shows we are chosen for service.

But Romans 9:11 gives God's answer:

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that
the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

.

So, what is the purpose in this verse? Specfically. And saying God is the One who elects isn't the purpose of election.

So, what is the purpose as stated in Rom 9:11.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

What this is teaching is that casting out devils, doing many wonderful works, prophesying, etc, is not enough to get you saved. You need to do even more wonderful works than those people who went to hell. You need to cast out even more devils than those people. You need to prophesy even more. So good luck with that.

 

[5thKingdom]

Matthew 7:21-23
What this is teaching is that casting out devils, doing many wonderful works, prophesying, etc, is not enough to get you saved. You need to do even more wonderful works than those people who went to hell. You need to cast out even more devils than those people. You need to prophesy even more. So good luck with that.

Not true. What Matthew 7:21-23 and Luke 13:23-30 teach
is the fundamental and essential doctrine that the church consists
of many unsaved "tares" sown by Satan and relatively few saved
"wheat" sown by God and (a) you can tell the difference by their
"fruit", as the saved "wheat/sheep" keep God's commandments
in both deeds and doctrine and (b) the many unsaved "tares" are
very sincere in thinking they are saved but they are following some
kind of "works gospel", thinking they saved themselves with an act
(saying a sinner's prayer or making a altar call or receiving water baptism or repenting of sins or asking Jesus to come into their lives
or "accepting" Jesus or deciding to "receive" or "believe" in Jesus...
or any "work" where MAN is Sovereign and initiates or contributes
to their salvation) they are told Christ "never knew you". Whereas
the saved wheat understand true election is the Sovereignty of God alone. That is the "fruit" of the saved "wheat/sheep", trusting in the
particular Atonement of Christ.


Php 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do
of his good pleasure.


Jim
.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 7:21-23
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

What this is teaching is that casting out devils, doing many wonderful works, prophesying, etc, is not enough to get you saved. You need to do even more wonderful works than those people who went to hell. You need to cast out even more devils than those people. You need to prophesy even more. So good luck with that.

Context: In Matthew 7:26-27 we learn that those who do not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of it. The fact that they worked miracles in his name did not mean anything if they justified sin or iniquity. Jesus Himself said to them in Matthew 7:23 to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin. They justified grievous sin. That is why they were cast out.

 

[5thKingdom]

That is why they were cast out.

No, they were cast out because they were never covered by
the particular Atonement of Christ... as evidenced by their "fruit"
of not keeping His Commandments.

Nobody covered by the particular Atonement of Christ goes to hell.
Since all their sins (past, present and future) are already PAID.
And no sin must be PAID TWICE.

Jim
.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Jesus said,

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:23).​

Obviously a person who still commits grievous sin and thinks their future sin is forgiven them is still working iniquity.

Here is what a Christian wrote that many today need to hear:

Many Born Again and Evangelical members believe that in order to be saved, the only thing which we should do is to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior by faith. And once you accepted Him through faith, you have now an assured salvation in heaven. No need of good works or following the commandments of God, but through faith alone, we will be saved according to them.

Sorry to say this, but I think this kind of belief is not just unbiblical but shameful, careless and dirty in its entire content. Imagine a person who thinks he was already saved and destined to heaven no matter what he will do, whether he do evil or not. Remember what happened in LA Fitness Gym in Pennsylvania on August 4, 2009? When a man named George Sodini fired 50 rounds into an aerobic class before turning the gun on himself. The shooting resulted four deaths (including Sodini himself) and nine injured. George Sodini was a member of the Tetelestai Church where he sat quietly for many years, listening to the deceptions of his preacher. Talking about the pastor of his Church, Sodini wrote in his blog dated Dec. 31, 2008,

“this guy” (Alan “Rick” Knapp) “teaches (and convinced me) you can commit mass murder then still go to heaven. Ask him.“

And in a post dated August 3, 2009, Sodini said;

“Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for every sin, so how can I or you be judged by GOD for a sin when the penalty was already paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.


Excerpt From Sodini's Blog

After the horrible incident in Pennsylvania, Pastor Knapp’s deacon, Jack Rickard commented on Sodini’s death and said;

“George is going to heaven, but he’s not going to get his rewards,”

Source:
O.S.A.S. – THE WATCHMAN'S CRY

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jesus said,

“And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:23).​

Obviously a person who still commits grievous sin and thinks their future sin is forgiven them is still working iniquity.

You have ignored the context. The crowd in 7:21-23 are not believers. They are religious people only. They think they will get into heaven by what they do. There is no mention of believing in Christ. In fact, Jesus said to them, "I NEVER knew you." He could not have said that to anyone who HAD believed in Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Ezekiel 18:24 may shed possible light on Jesus's words when He says, "I never knew you." in Matthew 7:23.

Ezekiel 18:24 says that if a righteous person does iniquity (sin), all their previous righteousness will not be remembered. Seeing God associates with the righteous, he will no longer remember them anymore. It will be as if He... never knew them. For there is nothing to remember because no previous righteousness exists anymore.

It is worth taking note that the reason why Jesus told them to depart from Him was not because they did many wonderful works, but it was because they worked iniquity (sin).

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23).

Even if Ezekiel 18:24 was not a proper explanation on Matthew 7:23, this does not mean that the Bible does not teach elsewhere that a believer can fall away in other instances (Please see the following list of verses).

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

In Matthew 7:23, I believe these are believers but they believed in a wrong version of Jesus in that they thought they could sin and still be saved. Whether they always believed that way is unclear.

But they cast out demons in His name. This means they believed in Jesus. It is just not the same Jesus as described in the Bible. Yes, sure, they may even say they followed the Bible, but I believe they twisted and distorted Scripture to justify sin and evil thereby creating their own version of Jesus (Whereby the real Christ did not know them).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

For what is the way we can know Jesus?

By keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3).

Yet, the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4).

Jesus is the way the truth and the life (John 14:6).
So the truth that is not in them is Jesus if they are disobeying His commandments.

Can a person be out of fellowship with Jesus and be saved?

No.

The Bible says in 1 John 5:12 that he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

To all:

Ezekiel 18:24 may shed possible light on Jesus's words when He says, "I never knew you." in Matthew 7:23.

Ezekiel 18:24 says that if a righteous person does iniquity (sin), all their previous righteousness will not be remembered. Seeing God associates with the righteous, he will no longer remember them anymore. It will be as if He... never knew them. For there is nothing to remember because no previous righteousness exists anymore.

It is worth taking note that the reason why Jesus told them to depart from Him was not because they did many wonderful works, but it was because they worked iniquity (sin).

No, Ezek 18:24 didn't play a part in what Jesus told the crowd in Matt 7:21-23.

He said He never knew them because they never believed in Him for salvation.

And as to working iniquity, Jesus was telling them that unbelievers who perform miracles, who don't have the power of the Holy Spirit to do them, are doing them from Satan's power. That is the epitome of evil.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23).

Jesus would tell EVERYONE who NEVER believed in Him for salvation that He NEVER knew them.

Even if Ezekiel 18:24 was not a proper explanation on Matthew 7:23, this does not mean that the Bible does not teach elsewhere that a believer can fall away in other instances (Please see the following list of verses).

The issue is never about people falling away. Of course many have. The Bible clearly acknowledges that. Even Jesus did, with the second soil, in Luke 8:13.

But that doesn't mean they lost their salvation. And no verse says so either.

In Matthew 7:23, I believe these are believers but they believed in a wrong version of Jesus in that they thought they could sin and still be saved. Whether they always believed that way is unclear.

Believing in anything other than Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as revealed in the Bible, for salvation is NOT a "believer" in the biblical sense. They are religious, yes. But believer, NOT. And such are unsaved.

But they cast out demons in His name. This means they believed in Jesus.

No it doesn't. Satan can do miracles. Aren't you aware that the Tribulational beast (false prophet) will deceive many by performing miracles?

Rev 13-
And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people. Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived

Rev 16:14 - They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

It is just not the same Jesus as described in the Bible.

Then don't call them believers. The Bible uses the word 'believer' ONLY for those who have placed their trust in Jesus Christ for salvation, and are saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Some want to keep on arguing for how we can sin and still be saved, but search the Scriptures for yourselves. You will not see any teaching in the New Testament about how you can abide in unconfessed grievous sin and still be saved. Our Lord Jesus warned about how even just the sin of lusting after a woman can cause one's body to be cast into hellfire. Jesus did not say this as a part of some ultimate sermon or point about how you cannot obey God (See: Matthew 5:28-30).

 

[FreeGrace2]

To all:

Some want to keep on arguing for how we can sin and still be saved, but search the Scriptures for yourselves. You will not see any teaching in the New Testament about how you can abide in unconfessed grievous sin and still be saved.

Actually, there are NO verses in the Bible that warn of loss of salvation, for any reason.

Check out the thread about 1 Thess 5:10. Regardless of lifestyle, the believer will "live with the Lord"

Our Lord Jesus warned about how even just the sin of lusting after a woman can cause one's body to be cast into hellfire. Jesus did not say this as a part of some ultimate sermon or point about how you cannot obey God (See: Matthew 5:28-30).

The context for Matt 5 is the Millennium. The Lord will be judge of the "spirit of the law", rather than the "letter of the law".

If your interpretation were correct, then Jesus was teaching that He didn't die for all sins and some sins will result in the second death. Nonsense.

He died for every sin.

 

[BibleBeliever1611]

The fact that they worked miracles in his name did not mean anything if they justified sin or iniquity.

Exactly. That's what I was saying. If those people in Matthew 7 were perfect and never had committed any sin in their whole life, they would have gone to heaven. But's being perfect is not humanly possible. That's why we need to trust in Christ alone and not our own good works or lifestyle.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Exactly. That's what I was saying. If those people in Matthew 7 were perfect and never had committed any sin in their whole life, they would have gone to heaven. But's being perfect is not humanly possible. That's why we need to trust in Christ alone and not our own good works or lifestyle.

Where does the Bible teach that you have to be perfect to be saved?
I believe the Bible plainly teaches that a Christian has to meet the bare minimum level requirement of holiness to be saved (After they are first saved by God's grace through faith in Christ and the gospel mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). A Christian cannot justify sins that the Bible condemns and be saved. Paul says that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God and lists sins like murder, hate, idolatry, adultery, etc. (Galatians 5:19-21). To “inherit the Kingdom” is related to salvation (See: Matthew 25:34). So when Paul says, “that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” he is referring to how they will not be saved.

In addition, Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14-15).​

Looking at the text more closely does not make it any better. Please take note that verse 14 says to follow after peace with all men, and follow after holiness as the condition of seeing the Lord. In addition, verse 15 makes it even worse. It says that we can fail the grace of God. There are tons more verses where these came from. You cannot ignore them all, or change them all.