Requirements of Salvation

[5thKingdom]

iow, when a person believes in Christ for salvation, God chooses to regenerate the believer.

So you preach that MAN chooses God before the foundation
of the world. That's interesting.

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[5thKingdom]

The lake of fire is for those who aren't qualified to live with God in eternity. They didn't receive the free gift that was offered.

So you DO BELIEVE that the reason people are in eternal torment
is for the SINGLE SIN of not "accepting Jesus. I am glad that you
finally got the courage to say that.


Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry,
witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions,
heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and
such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told
you in time past, that they which do such things
shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not
inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves,
nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners,
shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Rev 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and
maketh a lie.


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[5thKingdom]

Prove your claim that the context of John 1:12 is about "the elect".

Well... let's just look at the CONTEXT of the verse:


Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.


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[5thKingdom]

The world means everyone. Heb 2:9 says everyone. 2 John 2:2 says the whole world.

Jew + Gentile = the world

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[5thKingdom]

You just keep showing how little you understand of the Scriptures. lol

I am sorry, I cannot respond to Post #173 because you
did not offer any Scripture.

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[5thKingdom]

And, again, your OPINION of what I believe is totally erroneous.

I don't have anyone sitting in a chair. How ridiculous. The better analogy is a drowning man in the ocean, and Jesus Christ throwing a life line directly to the man. He can grab hold or ignore the life line. His choice. But if he grabs it, and Jesus Christ pulls him in to ground, do you really think that man has any basis for bragging about how he "held on" to the life line and saved himself?? How stupid a thought. No one would accept that kind of thinking.


What you have is limited atonement. Calvinism is disproven from the verses I shared above. Christ died for the world. That is what paid the debt of sin.


You just have no idea.


Grace?? Are you serious? Tell that to all the ones in YOUR gospel who weren't given the gift.

I am sorry, I cannot respond to Post #172 because
you offered not Scripture.


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[5thKingdom]

There are NO verses that say that Jesus died for "His sheep". Read John 10, please. He says plainly that He would die for THE sheep, and that in the context of His noting there were "His sheep" and "those NOT of His sheep".

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Joh 10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Joh 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


.

 

[5thKingdom]

Romans 9 does NOT SAY that there are "vessels of wrath" that are created..

Rom 9:21-23
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump
to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


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[5thKingdom]

I said:
"This is what I actually said: "It's not about getting into heaven."
Of course it occurs in heaven. But the parable isn't about getting into heaven."

You are free to think whatever you want.


Do you really not remember what you had posted?

I am sorry, I cannot respond to Post #169 because
you offered no Scripture.


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[FreeGrace2]

I said this, in the context of how to be a Christian:
They must believe.

I am sorry, I cannot respond to post #177
because you offered no Scripture.

The childish repetition of this trite snipe is revealing.

You offer no Scripture for 3 categories of people, nor that there are unsaved Christians.

Your theories are far from the Bible. Talk about "no Scripture". Your posts take the cake.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I cannot imagine what you think v.27 is about, but it's real clear that Paul was referring to the whole human race."

Rom 3:10-12
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that
seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable; there is none that
doeth good, no, not one.

I wonder how any part of your response related in any way to what I posted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"iow, when a person believes in Christ for salvation, God chooses to regenerate the believer."

So you preach that MAN chooses God before the foundation
of the world. That's interesting.

What's really interesting is how one comes to the conclusions that you come to.

Eph 1:4 says that God chose US (believers) before the foundation of the world. So I KNOW the verse that you make a side reference to.

However, 1 Cor 1:21 is clear: God is pleased to save those who believe.

Doesn't this sound like a choice to you? Reasonable people would think so.

God doesn't choose to do things that don't please Him. That doesn't make sense.

Salvation is God's plan for mankind. It's His plan to save those who believe. That's His choice.

Get used to it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

So you DO BELIEVE that the reason people are in eternal torment is for the SINGLE SIN of not "accepting Jesus. I am glad that you finally got the courage to say that.

No, I NEVER said that. You are only confused about what I did say.

So I'll clarify. Not possessing eternal life is NOT sin. But you can believe whatever you want to. But you can't find any verse that says that lack of eternal life is a sin.

I don't care how you may "spin" that.

Gal 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these;
Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry,
witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions,
heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and
such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told
you in time past, that they which do such things
shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


1Co 6:9
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not
inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither
fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves,
nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners,
shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Why did you leave out Eph 5:5? All 3 are parallel passages. However Eph 5:5 is worded just a bit differently, which is instructive to those who have open eyes and ears.

"For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

The 2 passages you quoted have "will not inherit the kingdom". The 3rd passage has "(not) have any inheritance IN the kingdom".

While you may not appreciate the difference, it is instructive to those with open eyes and ears. To have no inheritance IN the kingdom doesn't mean such persons won't be IN the kingdom. It means they will have no inheritance IN the kingdom.

This isn't about getting into the kingdom but what one will or will NOT have in the kingdom.

I have found that many people have little to no understanding of reward in the kingdom based on behavior. To such people, bad behavior keeps one out of the kingdom. Yet the Bible NEVER teaches that heresy.

Rev 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers,
and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and
maketh a lie.

I invite you to answer the question of "without" - what, exactly".

Hint: what words IMMEDIATELY precede the word "outside" or "without". That will tell you the location of such people.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Prove your claim that the context of John 1:12 is about "the elect"."

Well... let's just look at the CONTEXT of the verse:

Joh 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.

Where do you see the word "elect" in v.13? I sure don't. Not even the principle of election is seen in v.13. You seem to have a rather wild imagination going on there.

v.12 tells us that man becomes a child of God by believing in Christ. And v.13 notes that this is a "birth", which is by God. Not by anything man can do.

Being born again isn't man's decision. It is God's alone. When man believes, God gives birth. Spiritual birth. How can anyone disagree with that?

Titus 3:5 - he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Here's the truth: being saved and being born again are BOTH actions by God towards those who believe.

Or do you have some other notion?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"The world means everyone. Heb 2:9 says everyone. 2 John 2:2 says the whole world."

Jew + Gentile = the world

Except John was contrasting believer with the "whole world" regarding whom Christ was atoning for.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The red words indicate saved believers.
The blue words indicate everyone else; unsaved unbelievers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sorry, I cannot respond to Post #172 because
you offered not Scripture.

Typical response when a poster has no answers. Some call it punting.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"There are NO verses that say that Jesus died for "His sheep". Read John 10, please. He says plainly that He would die for THE sheep, and that in the context of His noting there were "His sheep" and "those NOT of His sheep"."

Joh 10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Joh 10:14
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Joh 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

First, I'd like to thank you for supporting what I said, that "there are NO verses that say that Jesus died for "His sheep", but "that He would die for THE sheep".

Right in v.11 Jesus said "the good shepherd gives his life for THE sheep".

But let's not stop there. How many times did Jesus mention "THE sheep"?

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.
13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So, by my calculations in this passage about "sheep", Jesus says "the sheep" 6 times.

And He specifically says He will die for "the sheep". Even though He also talks about "His sheep", and "other sheep of Mine".

So you don't have a case. While noting that He had sheep, He said He would die for "the sheep".

If your theory were correct, He would have said "the good shepherd lays down his life for his own sheep".

But, hmm, He didn't say that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Romans 9 does NOT SAY that there are "vessels of wrath" that are created.."

Rom 9:21-23
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump
to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Wow. Another post agreeing with what I said. Thanks.

As I said, there is nothing about "vessels of wrath" being "created". They are "fitted to destruction", which in the Greek is a single word, katartizo. It is NEVER translated as "created".

So, thanks again.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I am sorry, I cannot respond to Post #169 because
you offered no Scripture.

Let's put away childish things.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 1 Cor 13:11

 

[5thKingdom]

I said:
"iow, when a person believes in Christ for salvation, God chooses to regenerate the believer."

What's really interesting is how one comes to the conclusions that you come to.

Eph 1:4 says that God chose US (believers) before the foundation of the world. So I KNOW the verse that you make a side reference to.

However, 1 Cor 1:21 is clear: God is pleased to save those who believe.

Doesn't this sound like a choice to you? Reasonable people would think so.

God doesn't choose to do things that don't please Him. That doesn't make sense.

Salvation is God's plan for mankind. It's His plan to save those who believe. That's His choice.

Get used to it.

If God chooses/elects us before the foundation of the world
then HOW is that election based on what we believe thousands
of years later, during our lifetime?

The question is NOT that God is pleased to have preaching
cause some to believe [1Co 1:21] the question is how ANY
are able to believe. And the Bible declares that NONE can
ever "believe" unless they are chosen (before the foundation
of the world) to believe.

Before regeneration we are DEAD men.
Dead men cannot believe.

It seems to me that you are arguing that MAN starts the
process of salvation by "believing"... while the Bible argues
that NONE can believe unless the Father FIRST "draws" them.

Do you see the difference?
In your gospel MAN initiates the salvation process.
In my gospel God initiates the salvation process.

These are two different gospels and (at best)
only ONE can be the True Gospel.

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