Republican Party on the Decline?

[technofox]

We'll see which way the wind is actually blowing in about 4 days from now. Polls are currently showing the Senate being taken over by Republicans. I think it's clear the Obama Messiah hasn't lived up to his promises and now the Dems are going to be paying the price for that.

Over promise, under deliver. Have you ever met a politician who hasn't done that?

 

[technofox]

Aww. You're just advising a party you don't care for to do what's not in its best interests. That's not the basis for a serious discussion here. And BTW, the way to grow our economy is to CUT taxes. That's rudimentary. Not only would cutting taxes produce more revenue, but it's obviously a drag on the economy to raise taxes. More government jobs do not grow the economy, and if you doubt it, just review how the past five years have gone.

Source for the cutting of taxes improves the economy.

From what I have been reading on NPR and other sources, it seems cutting taxes has not helped create new jobs. The wealthy just get to keep more of their money.

Maybe you should reanalyze your statement and think deeper about it. If the well to do are already keeping more of their money when taxes age reduced, and they are not creating new jobs, then what does that say?


Personally I am for a flat tax with a compromise. Those who are financially meet a means test that determines that an individual or family can live financially independent of a job and does not require government subsides (tax breaks) to survive pay the full flat tax. Those who need a job and government subsidies (tax breaks, etc.) get those tax breaks.

So basically that will end government welfare for those who absolutely don't need it (e.g. Large cap businesses and the wealthy elite) and yet provide for those who do need them until they reach financial independence. We should be working towards a system that by a certain age you should be financially independent by a certain age where you aren't as productive as younger workers, but also not a burden on society. Hmm.... Any thoughts?

 

[Aldebaran]

Over promise, under deliver. Have you ever met a politician who hasn't done that?

No. But I'll be happy to have the Republicans in charge again. People have different priorities. Some people care about women's rights, education, "fairness", symbolic gestures, safety, government doing more, etc., while other care about religion, gun rights, freedom, less government control, etc.

There's always going to be people not liking who's in charge at the time.

 

[technofox]

No. But I'll be happy to have the Republicans in charge again. People have different priorities. Some people care about women's rights, education, "fairness", symbolic gestures, safety, government doing more, etc., while other care about religion, gun rights, freedom, less government control, etc. There's always going to be people not liking who's in charge at the time.

LoL so we are stuck between two camps. How do we make a country work, if we can't set aside our differences and work together.

That is one of the funniest things about this forum. People will complain, blame, and argue, but at the end of the day there has been no common ground met, nor progress made. We and everyone in this country are absolute failures in both teamwork and cooperation. What happened?

How did the greatest generation succeed in cooperation and sharing a set of principles despite leaning left or right?

 

[Albion]

Source for the cutting of taxes improves the economy.

From what I have been reading on NPR and other sources, it seems cutting taxes has not helped create new jobs. The wealthy just get to keep more of their money.

First, stop listening to NPR. There is nothing neutral about its reporting. Second, there has to be serious tax-cutting--if you want the results you are after. And third, you're only fooling yourself if you think that a modest cut of a few percentage points in the Federal Income Tax will work WHILE deductions and exemptions are eliminated or reduced in order to offset the rate cut, AND state taxes, local taxes and excise taxes go up steadily. All that this does, debate-wise, is allow skeptics to say "It didn't work." Well, no, "it" won't work unless you REALLY DO IT!

 

[Aldebaran]

LoL so we are stuck between two camps. How do we make a country work, if we can't set aside our differences and work together.

That is one of the funniest things about this forum. People will complain, blame, and argue, but at the end of the day there has been no common ground met, nor progress made. We and everyone in this country are absolute failures in both teamwork and cooperation. What happened?

How did the greatest generation succeed in cooperation and sharing a set of principles despite leaning left or right?

I think it depends on what they are cooperating on. In the greatest generation, they were united because we had been attacked at Pearl Harbor. That same cooperation and unity happened after 9/11. Big things tend to unite people. But when things get personal, such as taking away one person's rights versus someone else's, then divisions happen. I think that's a good case for small government because government's role is to deal with the big issues, such as national defense. But when they get involved in whether a Christian baker can refuse to bake a cake for a SSM wedding, or how short the barrel on a shotgun can be, or how many ounces a soda pop can be served in a cup, then problems start.

 

[Albion]

I think it depends on what they are cooperating on. In the greatest generation, they were united because we had been attacked at Pearl Harbor. That same cooperation and unity happened after 9/11. Big things tend to unite people. But when things get personal, such as taking away one person's rights versus someone else's, then divisions happen. I think that's a good case for small government because government's role is to deal with the big issues, such as national defense. But when they get involved in whether a Christian baker can refuse to bake a cake for a SSM wedding, or how short the barrel on a shotgun can be, or how many ounces a soda pop can be served in a cup, then problems start.

You're probably on target with that assessment. Years ago, it was assumed that the federal and state governments dealt with the really big and basic issues of life. Now we've been infected--from the Left--by the idea that whatever the majority OR the smart people (as defined by themselves) thinks is good for everyone, and for any reason agreeable to them, is fair game for imposing on the people.

 

[JayFern]

The American people seem to the very last thing on Republicans minds, party party party, any left and it's party again.
If the Republicans get back into power all that will happen is the rich will become even richer and the poor poorer.
Will they repeal Obama care? no chance, they will throw more money at it and claim it as their own.

Anyone here think the government shutdown was a good idea, the Republican party did, who suffered? not them,
did it bother them? not in the slightest.

 

[Aldebaran]

The American people seem to the very last thing on Republicans minds, party party party, any left and it's party again.
If the Republicans get back into power all that will happen is the rich will become even richer and the poor poorer.
Will they repeal Obama care? no chance, they will throw more money at it and claim it as their own.

Anyone here think the government shutdown was a good idea, the Republican party did, who suffered? not them,
did it bother them? not in the slightest.

Part of that is because the current president and his people got to decide which departments got money and which ones didn't during the shutdown. There was a case where a national monument for veterans was closed off and barricaded. Totally unecessary. But they got to blame it on the Republicans. So, politics got played with that too. It's the same thing I was saying about big government before. They have too much power over too many things. Once they have their fingers in something, they can manipulate it, and can do so for political advantage--and we're the pawns. That's why they need to get smaller and weaker, even though the government types will then villify you with "Now you're against police and fire protection!"

 

[Albion]

The American people seem to the very last thing on Republicans minds, party party party, any left and it's party again.

Oh please. There has been a lot said in this thread that's quite thoughtful. To follow that up with something like THIS ^ is just a disappointment.

 

[HonestTruth]

Funny how Republicans or right wingers continually call President Obama the "Messiah". To this day I have yet to see any lib or Dem do that.

 

[nightflight]

Funny how Republicans or right wingers continually call President Obama the "Messiah". To this day I have yet to see any lib or Dem do that.

They did call him the "Lightworker". lololololololol!

 

[Albion]

Funny how Republicans or right wingers continually call President Obama the "Messiah". To this day I have yet to see any lib or Dem do that.

I guess that means the Rev. Louis Farrakhan has suddenly become a flaming Rightwinger.

 

[A2SG]

Or is it the case that the folks who think they're so smart here and now to talk like "Don't hold your breath for a complete rundown on all the Republican proposals!" weren't paying much attention at the time?

I was. All I heard were variations on a theme. Just "tax cuts" and.....um, "more tax cuts."

If there were any other proposals, I'd sure like to hear about them!

I well remember several complete proposals made by different Republican Senators, and while I don't think anyone is going to remember every line in a document hundreds of pages long, I do remember --in answer to the specific issue mentioned here--that it was proposed by several that to take care of the poor and uninsured we'd do better just to enlarge Medicaid to cover them. Yes, there were a bunch of counterproposals. Of course, Obama and Reid weren't interested in either transparency or reaching across any aisles because they figured that they didn't have to.

Ah. So what you're saying is there were alternate proposals, but....you can't seem to remember anything about them, or who proposed them.

Not a good way to convince someone that these things ever existed, I have to say. We're living in the Age of Google, surely you could find something if you tried!

And now...back to the topic.

See, this kinda is the topic.

One of the biggest problems facing the GOP today is they've become the Party of No. Their basic platform has come down to, simply, "If Obama's for it, we're against it!" They've become the Quincy Adams Wagstaff of politics.

Their opposition to the ACA, aka "Obamacare" is probably the most blatant example, as the plan was theirs to begin with, the GOP championed it in the 90s, and the instant Obama and the democrats agreed to it, they're against it. Vehemently. No matter that it's a conservative, market-driven plan, both things that are well within their wheelhouse. Mitt Romney, the last person the GOP supported for President, knew this, he even implemented the plan here in Massachusetts before the GOP decided it wasn't good enough anymore....for some reason.

As I said, the only alternative I ever heard from the GOP was to cut taxes so that the poor can afford to pay for private health insurance...which really is the same as Obamacare, without a mandate (the thing that the Heritage Foundation said was essential to drive down health insurance costs) and without group exchanges to also create cheaper health insurance for those who can't afford it or can't get it through an employer.

If, as you claim, there were alternative suggestions, I'd surely love to hear about them. So far, you haven't done anything to convince me such things exist.

-- A2SG, because if the GOP hopes to survive, they need ideas, not just a platform of opposition and obstruction...and that seems to be all they got....

 

[AceHero]

Their opposition to the ACA, aka "Obamacare" is probably the most blatant example, as the plan was theirs to begin with, the GOP championed it in the 90s, and the instant Obama and the democrats agreed to it, they're against it. Vehemently. No matter that it's a conservative, market-driven plan, both things that are well within their wheelhouse. Mitt Romney, the last person the GOP supported for President, knew this, he even implemented the plan here in Massachusetts before the GOP decided it wasn't good enough anymore....for some reason.

Even though Obamacare was far from perfect, at least it reduced the uninsured rate and made some improvements here and there. With the Republicans, the most offensive thing about their healthcare "plan" is that it doesn't really aim to reduce the uninsured rate or serve as a starting point that could eventually lead to an even better system...it feels as if the Republicans have put forth their plan simply to say they have one.

Because, let's be realistic...do we really think that if the Republicans had taken the White House in 2008 that healthcare reform would've been on their priority list?

 

[TLK Valentine]

I guess that means the Rev. Louis Farrakhan has suddenly become a flaming Rightwinger.

We don't take him seriously; why do you?

 

[A2SG]

Even though Obamacare was far from perfect, at least it reduced the uninsured rate and made some improvements here and there. With the Republicans, the most offensive thing about their healthcare "plan" is that it doesn't really aim to reduce the uninsured rate or serve as a starting point that could eventually lead to an even better system...it feels as if the Republicans have put forth their plan simply to say they have one.

What plan is that, again?

See, here's the thing: the ACA was their plan. They believe in conservative, market-based solutions to things, and that's exactly what the ACA is. As you say, it isn't perfect (as a Massachusetts resident, I can attest to that!), but the problems can be addressed and fixed.

If health care is a concern of theirs, why don't they stand behind the idea they came up with in the first place?

Because, let's be realistic...do we really think that if the Republicans had taken the White House in 2008 that healthcare reform would've been on their priority list?

And that may very well answer my last question.

-- A2SG, and may also address the reasons behind the OP....

 

[Archaeopteryx]

We'll see which way the wind is actually blowing in about 4 days from now. Polls are currently showing the Senate being taken over by Republicans.

That's despite the direction of the wind, not because of it. In the last election Republicans were able to secure more seats despite having fewer votes in some districts.

Not suggesting that Republicans alone are guilty of this, but they do seem to be quite adept at it.

 

[Albion]

Not suggesting that Republicans alone are guilty of this, but they do seem to be quite adept at it.

You may be right about that last point. The way it works is this...

The Democrats engage in some previously unthinkable tactic in order to win elections, so the Republicans think "Two can play at that game. It worked for them, so we need to counter it. " But when they do it, the Dems scream bloody murder about how unthinkable and corrupt that very same practice is--as if it were brand new.

 

[Albion]

We don't take him seriously; why do you?

No one's competing to take him seriously. I was merely showing that "Honest Truth" was far from correct when he said this:

Republicans or right wingers continually call President Obama the "Messiah". To this day I have yet to see any lib or Dem do that.