Republican Party on the Decline?

[JayFern]

The US will always be lagging behind the rest of the industrial world as long as it has a Republican party that thinks more about the party than it does about the people.

When Obama won the election on the platform of Obama care what were the Republicans putting forward as an alternative? did they even put forward an alternative? millions of Americans were suffering [and still are] because they had no insurance but the Republicans did not want to change a thing, why?

 

[Albion]

The US will always be lagging behind the rest of the industrial world as long as it has a Republican party that thinks more about the party than it does about the people.

Now, wait a minute. Aside from the "always lagging behind the rest of the world" claim (and why, then, have we led the rest of the world in most categories until recently? Didn't we have a Republican Party then?), the GOP is no different from the Dems with regard to thinking of itself.

When Obama won the election on the platform of Obama care what were the Republicans putting forward as an alternative? did they even put forward an alternative?

Yes, they did. A number of them. To the extent that you are unaware of this, you can blame others and yourself.

Americans were suffering [and still are] because they had no insurance but the Republicans did not want to change a thing, why?

Show us that that's true, and we can talk. I remember a number of proposals for change. Of course, the Prez and his leaders in Congress, while claiming to be the most open administration in history, did all their work in secret, denying the opposition party any participation, and that's why they own this massive mess that has cost millions of people the insurance they had. Why you think that is so wonderful, I can't imagine.

 

[Aldebaran]

Of course, the Prez and his leaders in Congress, while claiming to be the most open administration in history, did all their work in secret, denying the opposition party any participation, and that's why they own this massive mess that has cost millions of people the insurance they had. Why you think that is so wonderful, I can't imagine.

I remember during the time Obamacare was being debated, the Republicans were putting forth several of their own proposals, but they were all blocked in the Senate by Harry Reid because the proposals weren't liked by the Dems in the Senate, or by the prez. Instead, they kept saying the Republicans were only blocking Obamacare. Naturally, that's the way the press reported it to the public, so that's what the public bought into.

 

[Albion]

I remember during the time Obamacare was being debated, the Republicans were putting forth several of their own proposals, but they were all blocked in the Senate by Harry Reid because the proposals weren't liked by the Dems in the Senate, or by the prez. Instead, they kept saying the Republicans were only blocking Obamacare. Naturally, that's the way the press reported it to the public, so that's what the public bought into.

True.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yeh, Arch. That's the issue of this thread, and even if you find it hard to believe, coming from your own perspective, there's been a lot of talk about it in recent years.

It's not a secret that the Republican Party has been failing to win in elections when it's been expected that it would win. Naturally, that points, at least in part, to the disaffection of people who normally vote Republican with the direction being taken by their own Party.

Yes, that is one possibility. Another is that the values espoused by the current crop of Republicans do not align well with the values of the majority of voters. That too is a possibility; one that has received scant attention from Republicans.

I'm tempted to snap back in kind, but in a way you are right on the money with that comment. YES, the Party is mainly made up of conservatives (the Jacob Javitses and Nelson Rockefellers are long gone now) so why does it so often give in to the Democrats in the clutch?

It was within the power of the Republicans in Congress to stop Obamacare, for example, but they delivered the votes that passed it. It was within the power of the Republicans in Congress to stop some of the profligate give-away schemes of the President...but they caved. They always seem to run scared if someone is going to accuse them of "shutting down the government" or conducting a "war on women" or some other catchy insult. Well, if they won't stand up for their principles, they are going to lose support among Republicans. Natch. At least that's the issue.

Or to put it another way, they may attract some more moderates by doing this, but it's pretty much known that they are losing support among conservatives who traditionally had voted Republican. So which way does the balance tilt? It appears that they are losing when they should be winning (as in 2012), so the "issue" here is about the wisdom of pursuing this trade-off.

Granted, that is an issue. What some conservatives seem to be suggesting, however, is that a strategy of alienation is the path to electoral success. "Broadly appealing to voters" is anathema to the purists who are under the impression that someone to the right of Limbaugh will somehow have broad appeal with voters. I think this is a serious misstep, but as Napoleon once said, "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

 

[A2SG]

I remember during the time Obamacare was being debated, the Republicans were putting forth several of their own proposals, but they were all blocked in the Senate by Harry Reid because the proposals weren't liked by the Dems in the Senate, or by the prez. Instead, they kept saying the Republicans were only blocking Obamacare. Naturally, that's the way the press reported it to the public, so that's what the public bought into.

Sorry, I must have missed those. What were these proposals, and who proposed them?

The only health care reform alternative I remember hearing from anyone in the GOP were along the lines of "tax cuts!" and....um, that was it. If there were alternative proposals for reforming the health care system and ensuring access to health care to more people, I would love it if you could specify those proposals and who, specifically, proposed them.

-- A2SG, cuz it's news to me....

 

[JayFern]

Sorry, I must have missed those. What were these proposals, and who proposed them?

The only health care reform alternative I remember hearing from anyone in the GOP were along the lines of "tax cuts!" and....um, that was it. If there were alternative proposals for reforming the health care system and ensuring access to health care to more people, I would love it if you could specify those proposals and who, specifically, proposed them.

-- A2SG, cuz it's news to me....

Please don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.

 

[A2SG]

Please don't hold your breath waiting for an answer.

Yeah, I brought a book.

-- A2SG, not the first time I've asked this one....

 

[Albion]

Sorry, I must have missed those. What were these proposals, and who proposed them?

The only health care reform alternative I remember hearing from anyone in the GOP were along the lines of "tax cuts!" and....um, that was it. If there were alternative proposals for reforming the health care system and ensuring access to health care to more people, I would love it if you could specify those proposals and who, specifically, proposed them.

-- A2SG, cuz it's news to me....

Or is it the case that the folks who think they're so smart here and now to talk like "Don't hold your breath for a complete rundown on all the Republican proposals!" weren't paying much attention at the time?

I well remember several complete proposals made by different Republican Senators, and while I don't think anyone is going to remember every line in a document hundreds of pages long, I do remember --in answer to the specific issue mentioned here--that it was proposed by several that to take care of the poor and uninsured we'd do better just to enlarge Medicaid to cover them. Yes, there were a bunch of counterproposals. Of course, Obama and Reid weren't interested in either transparency or reaching across any aisles because they figured that they didn't have to.

And now...back to the topic.

 

[PsychoSarah]

The US will always be lagging behind the rest of the industrial world as long as it has a Republican party that thinks more about the party than it does about the people.

When Obama won the election on the platform of Obama care what were the Republicans putting forward as an alternative? did they even put forward an alternative? millions of Americans were suffering [and still are] because they had no insurance but the Republicans did not want to change a thing, why?

Both of the top political parties are more focused on winning elections and undermining each other than actually running the country.

 

[Albion]

Both of the top political parties are more focused on winning elections and undermining each other than actually running the country.

It's hard to argue with that observation.

But as regards the Republican Party and this thread, what do we make of the fact that the party seems to be losing adherents because it so often sells out its own principles and compromises with the opposition rather than providing the alternative that most Americans want?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

It's hard to argue with that observation.

But as regards the Republican Party and this thread, what do we make of the fact that the party seems to be losing adherents because it so often sells out its own principles and compromises with the opposition rather than providing the alternative that most Americans want?

It doesn't appear to be the alternative most Americans want. Steering the ship further right isn't likely to change that when the wind is blowing in the opposite direction.

 

[Albion]

It doesn't appear to be the alternative most Americans want.

I don't see any reason for concluding that. Most Americans don't want Obamacare, so an alternative is obviously what they want.

And since the Republican proposals never got the consideration tin Congress that they deserved, the media gave them little attention, and few people have had the benefit of learning about them .

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I don't see any reason for concluding that. Most Americans don't want Obamacare, so an alternative is obviously what they want.

And since the Republican proposals never got the consideration tin Congress that they deserved, the media gave them little attention, and few people have had the benefit of learning about them .

Why is that the fault of Obama? If these alternative proposals had merit, why were Republicans not vociferously advocating for them?

so an alternative is obviously what they want.

That doesn't necessarily mean a Republican alternative is what they want.

 

[technofox]

I think the Republican Party as the boomers know it, is on decline. They have lost a major voting block, gen y and a good chunk of x as well.

At one point in time Republicans and Democrats were collectivists (not to be confused with socialists). They both work for the good and betterment of the nation. The only difference were social issues, circa 1940s - early 1960s. Other than that, they pretty much worked together.

Introduce the boomers who happen to be strong individualists and their anti-collectivist attitudes and we ended up with a government that reflects that. It has become US v. THEM attitudes. What once made both parties great is now lost. Teamwork was sacrificed for what is in it for me attitudes and who could get the most for themselves. It was the strong swing to individualism that has basically destroyed the social capital that their parents had built.

Now we have a new generation that has seen both generations and hybridized both traits. A medium of both the Greatest Generation and Boomers, Generation Y. This generation has access to more information than any prior generation. People who shun science instantly turn off this generation. The collectivist attitude also despises the attitude of boomers that support the rugged individualist ideals that do not work in the modern world. A primary example is medical care being a privilege of those who can either afford it or has it provided by an employer who offers it. There are employers and jobs that don't offer such healthcare or insurance that is affordable and thus leaves someone who works and tries to do the right thing in a lurch. Basically Generation Y is concerned about the welfare and common good; something that boomers have completely lost sight of as a whole.


The Republicans also lost Generation Y due to social issues that they rail against, such as homosexuals and gay marriage. This violates their belief individualism and freedom to express and be who you are.

The Republican Party has basically chosen willful ignorance and hostility towards anyone who does not fit share their views over cooperation and teamwork. Likewise the Democratic Party returned the favor, and thus up the ante to the nonproductive congress we have now. The democrats are barely holding on by a thread, because they have shown that they are willing to listen and address social issues.

 

[Albion]

I think the Republican Party as the boomers know it, is on decline. They have lost a major voting block, gen y and a good chunk of x as well.

I lose track of which gen is which, but millennials are supposed to be mainly Republican.

At one point in time Republicans and Democrats were collectivists (not to be confused with socialists). They both work for the good and betterment of the nation. The only difference were social issues, circa 1940s - early 1960s. Other than that, they pretty much worked together.

Introduce the boomers who happen to be strong individualists and their anti-collectivist attitudes and we ended up with a government that reflects that. It has become US v. THEM attitudes. What once made both parties great is now lost. Teamwork was sacrificed for what is in it for me attitudes and who could get the most for themselves. It was the strong swing to individualism that has basically destroyed the social capital that their parents had built.

If that were so, they'd be supporting the Republicans rather than the Dems, wouldn't they? To he extent that they are not, as a group, GOP-leaning, I think there has to be something wrong with your thesis.

Now we have a new generation that has seen both generations and hybridized both traits. A medium of both the Greatest Generation and Boomers, Generation Y. This generation has access to more information than any prior generation. People who shun science instantly turn off this generation. The collectivist attitude also despises the attitude of boomers that support the rugged individualist ideals that do not work in the modern world. A primary example is medical care being a privilege of those who can either afford it or has it provided by an employer who offers it. There are employers and jobs that don't offer such healthcare or insurance that is affordable and thus leaves someone who works and tries to do the right thing in a lurch. Basically Generation Y is concerned about the welfare and common good; something that boomers have completely lost sight of as a whole.

Wow. I have to say that I think you have it basically backwards. The Boomers and the generation that came afterwards are products of Depression-era parents and Vietnam-era counterculture ideas, while the people who came of age in the past decade are thinking in a more libertarian way.

Anyway, I'm not sure that this relates to the idea that the Party is losing it's punch mainly because it isn't standing up for its historic position but instead compromises (or sells out). That affects all generations of voters who normally would favor the Republicans.

 

[William67]

 

[technofox]

I lose track of which gen is which, but millennials are supposed to be mainly Republican. If that were so, they'd be supporting the Republicans rather than the Dems, wouldn't they? To he extent that they are not, as a group, GOP-leaning, I think there has to be something wrong with your thesis. Wow. I have to say that I think you have it basically backwards. The Boomers and the generation that came afterwards are products of Depression-era parents and Vietnam-era counterculture ideas, while the people who came of age in the past decade are thinking in a more libertarian way. Anyway, I'm not sure that this relates to the idea that the Party is losing it's punch mainly because it isn't standing up for its historic position but instead compromises (or sells out). That affects all generations of voters who normally would favor the Republicans.

Looks like my information was obsolete:
http://m.csmonitor.com/USA/Election...-poll-Why-the-youth-vote-now-leans-Republican

Yep, they are swing voters, which makes them better than their football team parents who either vote republican or democrat only. Makes me proud. I happen to be a Gen Y, well technically flux, and an independent.

I was basing my thesis off of anthropological studies that I have read and historical analysis of the culture of the Greatest Generation and Boomers.

However, before you gloat like either team cheerers do, only 25% of Gen Y thinks the republican congress is doing a good job. Quite dismal. The vote is more of a referendum against Obama's poor management, which is understandable.

Here are few other tidbits:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/25/the-gops-millennial-problem-runs-deep/

http://www.politifact.com/florida/s...illennials-dont-associate-democrat-or-republ/

http://reason.com/poll/2014/07/16/millennials-arent-more-democratictheyre

http://atr.rollcall.com/millennials-more-and-more-a-swing-group-survey-says/

Needless to say it appears both parties are in deep trouble with Gen Y. Democrats are more trusted, but the disgust with Obama has been growing. He mishandled whistle blowers, over stepped his bounds on spying, and ignored several social issues that this country is facing, like not prosecuting Wall Street execs for fraud and other financial crimes.

You may find this odd, but I would rather see a republican congress with a democratic president versus all one party system like we had with Bush, Jr. for six years. If we have a republican president, then I prefer a democratic congress. It forces both parties to work together.

Clinton worked with republicans because he had no choice to be an effective president. It seems both parties working together brings prosperity.

When we only have one party ruling the roost, we get the Great Recession or other ills. I am hoping that people realize we are better off having them work together than continue what they are doing now, which is accomplishing little to nothing.

 

[Albion]

Looks like my information was obsolete:
Millennial poll: Why the youth vote now leans Republican - CSMonitor.com

Yep, they are swing voters, which makes them better than their football team parents who either vote republican or democrat only. Makes me proud. I happen to be a Gen Y, well technically flux, and an independent.

I was basing my thesis off of anthropological studies that I have read and historical analysis of the culture of the Greatest Generation and Boomers.

However, before you gloat like either team cheerers do,

Now now. Don't wash out your laudable admission of a mistake (that any of us could have made) by incorporating a veiled insult in it.

only 25% of Gen Y thinks the republican congress is doing a good job. Quite dismal.

Well, I think we all have a low opinion of Congress's output. And by the way, it's not a "republican congress" no matter how often the Democratic National Committee likes to say that it is.

Only 8% of Americans, according to the latest survey, think Congress is doing a good job, so it's obvious that this includes many or most Republicans too.

The vote is more of a referendum against Obama's poor management, which is understandable.

What's the point there? The electorate makes its decision on a range of issues.

When we only have one party ruling the roost, we get the Great Recession or other ills. I am hoping that people realize we are better off having them work together than continue what they are doing now, which is accomplishing little to nothing.

I'm sure that if the Harry Reid logjam were ended, you'd see action and the President wouldn't be able to rule just by edict. It might not be the legislation you approve of, but there would be something hitting the President's desk for signature, unlike the way it is now with him being shielded from having to make such decisions.

 

[Aldebaran]

It doesn't appear to be the alternative most Americans want. Steering the ship further right isn't likely to change that when the wind is blowing in the opposite direction.

We'll see which way the wind is actually blowing in about 4 days from now. Polls are currently showing the Senate being taken over by Republicans. I think it's clear the Obama Messiah hasn't lived up to his promises and now the Dems are going to be paying the price for that.