Replacement theology

[keras]

In many discussions about Bible prophecy, the subject of the replacement of Israel with the Church becomes a hot issue.
The belief of those who hold to a rapture removal to heaven of the Church and the judgement and punishment of Israel during the Great Tribulation, conflicts with the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
The Church, means all true Christians, but Israel does not mean the current inhabitants of the Jewish State of Israel. They are just another apostate and atheistic nation. The true Israel of God IS every righteous Christian, be they Jew or any other nationality.

God’s work with and the development of 'His people, Israel’ in the Old Testament is continued in the New Testament. Those who presumed that ancestry gave them privileges were chastened. John the Baptist’s strong language indicates how seriously God viewed their pride and arrogance.
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Luke 3:7-9

Jesus gives a similar warning to those who were trying to trap him: Abraham is our father, they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did”. John 8:39 Jesus goes even further in Matthew 8 when he praises the faith of a Gentile Roman Centurion: I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. Matthew 8:10

Jesus then goes on to make a prediction: I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But those who were born to the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:11-12
Here Jesus is warning his Jewish hearers that unless they recognize him as their Messiah they will be excluded from the Kingdom.

This is how we are to understand Paul when he specifically uses the expression: Israel of God in Galatians 6:16. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16 For those who hold to a rapture, Paul is referring to Jews, or at least Christian Jews, but this flies in the face of everything he has said in the first five chapters of this letter.

In Galatians 3:23-29, Paul says we are saved by God’s grace and justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Paul is emphatic - people are not saved by ethnicity , by circumcision, by offering animal sacrifices or by keeping the Law of Moses.

In Galatians 4:21-31, those who follow Jesus, are likened to the free children of Sarah. Those seeking to be justified by the Law have been alienated from Jesus and are likened to the children of Hagar. Quoting Genesis 21, they will, he warns: never share in the inheritance…. Paul speaks of our freedom in Christ and our new life in the Holy Spirit. He contrasts living by the Spirit with living by our sinful nature.
See what Paul is saying? We have a choice – grace or law, faith or works? When Paul writes: Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, [and or even] to the Israel of God, he is obviously referring to all the followers of Jesus who have repudiated the legalists who wanted to impose circumcision and keeping the Law.

John Stott provides on of the best explanations of this verse: ‘All who walk by this rule’ and ‘the Israel of God’ are not two groups, but one. The connecting particle kai should be translated ‘even’, not ‘and’, or be omitted, as in the RSV. The Christian church enjoys a direct continuity with God’s people in the Old Testament. Those who are Christians today are ‘the true circumcision’ - Phil. 3:3, ‘Abraham’s offspring’ Galatians 3:29 and ‘the Israel of God’.

And don’t worry about the phrase ‘walk by this rule’ either. The Greek word ‘rule’ is kanon and simply describes a carpenter’s or surveyor’s plumb line. John Stott says, This is the ‘canon’ of Scripture, the doctrine of the apostles, and especially in the context of Galatians 6, the cross of Christ and the new creation. Such is the rule by which the church must walk and continuously judge and reform itself.

In the closing sentences of Galatians, Paul is drawing on an ancient prayer he would have prayed all his life on the Sabbath. Known as the additional 19th benediction to the 18 benedictions, and based on the Aaronic blessing of Numbers 6:24-26, God is asked in the final prayer for ‘Peace… and mercy on us and all Israel, your people.’ Now Paul prays this blessing on the Jewish and Gentile Christian believers in Jesus for they have become the ‘Israel of God’.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Israel is like a tree rooted in Christ. The tree wasn't replaced, but the branches were (Jeremiah 11:16). So Israel has always been Israel, but most of the natural branches were broken off and replaced by wild branches. Now, all of the branches are part of the tree rooted in Christ (Romans 11:16). So Israel is entirely Christian.

To say the church replaced Israel is technically incorrect; but the spirit of the idea is correct. But technically, most of the branches of Israel were broken off because of unbelief and replaced by believing Gentiles (Romans 11:19-21). But, in the end, all of the branches are Christians rooted in Christ (Romans 11:18).

 

[thecolorsblend]

I tend to agree. One problem I've always had with Israel remaining front and center in God's plan is that it requires invalidating Our Lord's atoning sacrifice at some point or another. I can't believe that God would go to all the trouble of creating the perfect sacrifice in Our Lord and then rolling it back to the Mosaic code after the "rapture". It just doesn't add up.

 

[faroukfarouk]

In many discussions about Bible prophecy, the subject of the replacement of Israel with the Church becomes a hot issue.
The belief of those who hold to a rapture removal to heaven of the Church and the judgement and punishment of Israel during the Great Tribulation, conflicts with the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
The Church, means all true Christians, but Israel does not mean the current inhabitants of the Jewish State of Israel. They are just another apostate and atheistic nation. The true Israel of God IS every righteous Christian, be they Jew or any other nationality.

God’s work with and the development of 'His people, Israel’ in the Old Testament is continued in the New Testament. Those who presumed that ancestry gave them privileges were chastened. John the Baptist’s strong language indicates how seriously God viewed their pride and arrogance.
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Luke 3:7-9

Jesus gives a similar warning to those who were trying to trap him: Abraham is our father, they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did”. John 8:39 Jesus goes even further in Matthew 8 when he praises the faith of a Gentile Roman Centurion: I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. Matthew 8:10

Jesus then goes on to make a prediction: I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But those who were born to the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:11-12
Here Jesus is warning his Jewish hearers that unless they recognize him as their Messiah they will be excluded from the Kingdom.

This is how we are to understand Paul when he specifically uses the expression: Israel of God in Galatians 6:16. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16 For those who hold to a rapture, Paul is referring to Jews, or at least Christian Jews, but this flies in the face of everything he has said in the first five chapters of this letter.

In Galatians 3:23-29, Paul says we are saved by God’s grace and justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Paul is emphatic - people are not saved by ethnicity , by circumcision, by offering animal sacrifices or by keeping the Law of Moses.

In Galatians 4:21-31, those who follow Jesus, are likened to the free children of Sarah. Those seeking to be justified by the Law have been alienated from Jesus and are likened to the children of Hagar. Quoting Genesis 21, they will, he warns: never share in the inheritance…. Paul speaks of our freedom in Christ and our new life in the Holy Spirit. He contrasts living by the Spirit with living by our sinful nature.
See what Paul is saying? We have a choice – grace or law, faith or works? When Paul writes: Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, [and or even] to the Israel of God, he is obviously referring to all the followers of Jesus who have repudiated the legalists who wanted to impose circumcision and keeping the Law.

John Stott provides on of the best explanations of this verse: ‘All who walk by this rule’ and ‘the Israel of God’ are not two groups, but one. The connecting particle kai should be translated ‘even’, not ‘and’, or be omitted, as in the RSV. The Christian church enjoys a direct continuity with God’s people in the Old Testament. Those who are Christians today are ‘the true circumcision’ - Phil. 3:3, ‘Abraham’s offspring’ Galatians 3:29 and ‘the Israel of God’.

And don’t worry about the phrase ‘walk by this rule’ either. The Greek word ‘rule’ is kanon and simply describes a carpenter’s or surveyor’s plumb line. John Stott says, This is the ‘canon’ of Scripture, the doctrine of the apostles, and especially in the context of Galatians 6, the cross of Christ and the new creation. Such is the rule by which the church must walk and continuously judge and reform itself.

In the closing sentences of Galatians, Paul is drawing on an ancient prayer he would have prayed all his life on the Sabbath. Known as the additional 19th benediction to the 18 benedictions, and based on the Aaronic blessing of Numbers 6:24-26, God is asked in the final prayer for ‘Peace… and mercy on us and all Israel, your people.’ Now Paul prays this blessing on the Jewish and Gentile Christian believers in Jesus for they have become the ‘Israel of God’.

But according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 10.32 the Jew, the Gentile and the church of God still exist as separate entities.

I wonder also what 'He shall purify the sons of Levi', in Malachi, means, if Israel just simply becomes subsumed into the church.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

I tend to agree. One problem I've always had with Israel remaining front and center in God's plan is that it requires invalidating Our Lord's atoning sacrifice at some point or another. I can't believe that God would go to all the trouble of creating the perfect sacrifice in Our Lord and then rolling it back to the Mosaic code after the "rapture". It just doesn't add up.

Absolutely. The Father would never disgrace the blood of the Son by doing such a thing.

 

[keras]

I appreciate how members who don't usually post, have made good comments here.
Of course, the truth of Christians being the Israel of God and the ethnic Israelis no more that a bastion of democracy in the Middle East, is untenable for those who believe in a rapture removal of the church to heaven, while God works with ethnic Israel on earth.
But, when all is said and done, it will be found by everyone that belief in the truth was the best option.

I wonder also what 'He shall purify the sons of Levi', in Malachi, means, if Israel just simply becomes subsumed into the church.

When all the true Christians are gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:26, the Lord will assign every individual to one of the 12 tribes, proved by Isaiah 66:21

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

meeh me thinks that Rev 4 is the end of bride account, onward to 11 is the account of wife Israel, and 12 onward is a rehash.
The tribes of the 144000 will teach nations the meanings of sacrifices from A-Z that they had failed to learn; kings will reside over the nations and priests will reside in the New Jerusalem during the millenium to come

 

[Hazrus]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought the term "replacement theology" was a little misleading. To me, it should be called something like "Inclusion Theology" or similar, as us gentile branches are included into the people of God by being grafted into the root.

Keras, I totally agree with your OP in its entirety.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought the term "replacement theology" was a little misleading. To me, it should be called something like "Inclusion Theology" or similar, as us gentile branches are included into the people of God by being grafted into the root.

Keras, I totally agree with your OP in its entirety.

Yes. I agree.

It's like the term, "Limited Atonement". People misunderstand it, and because they do, strongly oppose it.

 

[parousia70]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought the term "replacement theology" was a little misleading. To me, it should be called something like "Inclusion Theology" or similar, as us gentile branches are included into the people of God by being grafted into the root.

Keras, I totally agree with your OP in its entirety.

Keras an I disagree on much regarding eschatology, but this is one area that we are in lock step agreement and I celebrate that.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed" (Gal 3:29).

At Mt. Sinai, Yahweh said Israel was the "kingly priesthood," the "holy nation," the "peculiar people of God" (Ex 19:5-7). And St. Peter claims that the Christians are this very people: "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" (1 Peter 2:9-10).

Also, Israel was known as "the circumcision" (Eph 2:11; Rom 15:8; Rom 4:9; Rom 3:30), for that was their physical mark of distinction. St. Paul explicitly says that unbelieving Jews were "false circumcision," and states that the Nazarene Christian sect was the true circumcision: "Beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus" (Phil 3:2-3).

The first members of the body of Christ were all obedient Israelites. They, and ONLY They, were obedient Israel, and they went out and taught that the followers of Jesus were the true sons of Abraham.

Those who level the charge of "Replacement Theology", In contrast, are teaching the exact opposite of the Prophets and Apostles:
They are teaching That the disobedient sons who Moses said are "cut off from the people", and who Paul said were the "false Circumcision" are neither of those things, and are True Israel.

Scripture however, teaches that The "church" is, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN, Israel and is Jewish (not gentile) in its origin:

Acts 7:38
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers

Acts 2:47
And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
[Note that this "church" exists prior to any gentile inclusion, thus is believing Israel]

Nothing has been Replaced.

Israel is Fulfilled In Christ.

There is no Israel apart from Christ.

 

[parousia70]

meeh me thinks that Rev 4 is the end of bride account, onward to 11 is the account of wife Israel, and 12 onward is a rehash.
The tribes of the 144000 will teach nations the meanings of sacrifices from A-Z that they had failed to learn; kings will reside over the nations and priests will reside in the New Jerusalem during the millenium to come

So, just so I'm clear, you believe that at some point in the Future Jesus Christ will require Human beings to render blood animal sacrifices directly to Him for Atonement of their sins?

Do I have that right?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

So, just so I'm clear, you believe that at some point in the Future Jesus Christ will require Human beings to render blood animal sacrifices directly to Him for Atonement of their sins?

Do I have that right?

Based on Ezekial future prophesies, yes.

 

[parousia70]

Based on Ezekial future prophesies, yes.

Ok, well at least you are honest about that.
So Christ's "once for all" sacrifice on the Cross really wasn't "once for all" after all?, And it loses it's efficacy for atonement of the sin of the world and becomes irrelevant at some point in the future, relegated to an interesting, perhaps even amusing little "blip on the screen" in the big picture of the reconciliation between God and Man?... Christ came to institute a temporary, partial atonement, and His shed blood is subordinate to the blood of future slaughtered bulls and goats in your view.

Wow. That's something.

Do you ever wonder why His apostles taught exactly the opposite?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Ok, well at least you are honest about that.
So Christ's "once for all" sacrifice on the Cross really wasn't "once for all" after all?, And it loses it's efficacy for atonement of the sin of the world and becomes irrelevant at some point in the future, relegated to an interesting, perhaps even amusing little "blip on the screen" in the big picture of the reconciliation between God and Man?... Christ came to institute a temporary, partial atonement, and His shed blood is subordinate to the blood of future slaughtered bulls and goats in your view.

Wow. That's something.

Do you ever wonder why His apostles taught exactly the opposite?

Do you ever wonder why there is the church age that the prophets of old could not see and why those who have the mystery unfolded to them cannot see the difference of the future prophesies to determine the difference between what is of the 1000 yrs and what is of eternity? I did and that's what seems to account for it for those who have studied prophesies. I'm not saying I'm right because it's all speculation but for me it fits. I'm a mid-tribber so that in itself leaves many fellow tribbers at odds in that respect.

 

[keras]

Based on Ezekial future prophesies, yes.

Yes, there will be offerings made in the new Temple, that will be built by the Lord's Christian people in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
Ezekiel 20:40-41 On My holy mountain in Israel, all My people shall serve Me, There I shall accept them and I will require their gifts and choicest offerings....
Zephaniah 3:10 My worshippers, now dispersed around the world, will bring offerings to Me.
Jeremiah 33:18 ....there will be priests to present the whole offerings and to burn the grain offering, every day.
Isaiah 56:6-7 ...foreigners who give their allegiance to Me.....I shall bring to My holy place....their offerings will be acceptable on My Altar.
Note that this will happen before the Return of Jesus, proved by how the Beulahites choose their own leader. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11 and in Ezekiel 46:16-18

Parousia, we can see how it is Jesus who is the true Israel and His followers comprise the Israelites of God. But this conflicts with the rapture theory, so we get opposition and often abuse from them.
As Isaiah 29:9-12 basically says: If you choose to believe false ideas and non Biblical fables, then you will become locked into them. Sadly this is the case with those locked into thinking they will be whisked outta here and there is no amount of proof that will change their minds.
This is how God wants it and when the test comes, many will renounce God for having failed them.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Do you ever wonder why there is the church age that the prophets of old could not see and why those who have the mystery unfolded to them cannot see the difference of the future prophesies to determine the difference between what is of the 1000 yrs and what is of eternity? I did and that's what seems to account for it for those who have studied prophesies. I'm not saying I'm right because it's all speculation but for me it fits. I'm a mid-tribber so that in itself leaves many fellow tribbers at odds in that respect.

I think the fact that the church is a revealed mystery (Ephesians has a lot to say about this) is overlooked by many who think that the church and Israel in Scripture are the same.

 

[keras]

So Christ's "once for all" sacrifice on the Cross really wasn't "once for all" after all?,

The prophesies about future sacrifices and offerings, are careful to not say they are for the atonement of sin. God did require thank offerings before and He will again.

 

[parousia70]

The prophesies about future sacrifices and offerings, are careful to not say they are for the atonement of sin. God did require thank offerings before and He will again.

Sorry Friend, here's where we part.
You are fooling yourself about Ezekiel 40-44's sacrifices being "thanks Offerings. They are THE propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law.:



Ezekiel 40:39

In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.


Ezekiel 42:13

the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;


Ezekiel 43:20

'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.


Ezekiel 43:21

'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering


Ezekiel 43:22

'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering


Ezekiel 43:27

'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU


Ezekiel 44:9

'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

(Whats up with that one anyway? Jesus is going to require Human beings to be physically circumcised in the future as a "memorial" and a "Thank you"?
C'mon....really?)

Ezekiel 44:10

"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people


Ezekiel 44:23

"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.


All these offerings are the propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law that Jesus came to fulfill forever. The teaching of a reinstitution of this blood sacrificial system is a rebuke against the blood of Jesus Christ, and a cause for anathema according to the apostles. A return to this system is a falling away from salvation, according to the apostles. A falling from the grace of Jesus Christ

 

[parousia70]

Do you ever wonder why there is the church age that the prophets of old could not see

Of course they saw it... they called it "The age to Come" as opposed to what they called "This age" which was the age of Mosaic Judaism.

In scripture,
Mosaic Age = "This Age"
Messianic (Church) Age = "The Age to Come"

That's it.

 

[keras]

Sorry Friend, here's where we part.
You are fooling yourself about Ezekiel 40-44's sacrifices being "thanks Offerings. They are THE propitiatory offerings of the Mosaic Law.:

Well, how do we know what God wants? The cattle on a thousand hills and everything is His.
We are NOT under the Mosaic Law, Jesus brought the New Covenant. Hebrews 9 makes that clear.

Your quotes are from a translation, where the translators thought sacrifices meant atonement for sins. Ezekiel 20:41 tells it best.