Replacement Theology Refuted

Jerryhuerta

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Let me preface the beginning of this thread with an article that conveys the foundation of replacement theology (RT).

Cottrell used replacement theology (a.k.a. supersessionism)10 to explain the abortive predictions about Israel’s future glory and to argue for the concept of conditional prophecy. For instance: “The promises and predictions given through the Old Testament prophets originally applied to literal Israel and were to have been fulfilled to them on the condition that they obey God and remain loyal to Him.”11 Note Cottrell’s careful wording in his explanation of this line of reasoning: “God’s promises to Israel were all conditional.”12 Subtle but noteworthy! Here the word “promises” stands in for prophecy and predictions, and the adjective “conditional” is hiding at the end of the sentence rather than directly preceding “promises.” (https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/Adventist_Today_Online/2017/2017_04.pdf)​

There are numerous fallacious conclusions that are drawn from the presupposition that the prophecies to Israel, the biological descendants of Jacob, were conditional. One of these conclusions is that the church inherits “heaven” at Christ’s return. I will return to posit on this false conclusion but first the presupposition that the prophecies to Israel were conditional must be shown to be a falsehood.

RT’s foundation is constructed upon references such as the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy 28 and the book of Jonah, which superficially sustains the view of conditional prophecy. Jonah, in particular, is used to maintain the conditionality of prophecy but, as stated, this is only based on a superficial analysis of Jonah. The superficiality stems from the oversight that God’s influence overcame Johan’s carnal desire to disobey God, which ultimately led to Johan’s obedience. God’s influence over Johan’s volition substantiates compatibilism as opposed to libertarian free will, and the presumption of conditional prophecy is built upon libertarian free will; but God is in control of man, man does not control God’s will. The recognition of the compatibilist’s grounds in analyzing the book of Jonah substantiates the discernment that Nineveh’s repentance was also due to God’s moving against the carnal nature of the collective body of Nineveh to disobey; the NT is clear enough that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God; it is at enmity with God.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:5-7 KJV​

Due to the fall of man, the minds of the Ninevites were undoubtedly carnal, after the flesh, incapable of repentance. Any analysis of true weight must come to the conclusion that God’s influence overcame the carnal desires of the body of Ninevites and caused them to repent. Furthermore, the compatibilist rendition does not negate moral responsibility as the NT also affirms that, due to the fall of man, man’s volition fell into bondage to his carnal nature and cannot resist sinning but in being cognizant of his sinful acts he is made morally responsible.

For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Romans 7:19-23 ESV​

Paul goes on to affirm that the only deliverance from the bondage of the carnal mind is Christ or, in essence, the provision of the New Covenant where God will put His laws into the minds, and write them on their hearts of the chosen who become party to Israel’s New Covenant. The book of Jonah or the conditions of the Mosaic Covenant are of no true aid to RT’s false presupposition that the prophecies to Israel that they would inherit the land forever were conditional. The conditional blessings of the Mosaic covenant were merely a schoolmaster to teach the children of Israel the lesson Paul conveys in Romans 9.

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory---even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? Romans 9:22-24 ESV​

Many are called, but few are chosen! The conditional blessings of the Mosaic covenant were ephemeral and not the basis of the promise to Abraham that he and his descendants would inherit the land forever; the promise to Abraham and his descendants was unconditional and could not be annulled by the Mosaic covenant because it was in Christ that it would be fulfilled.

This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Galatians 3:17-19 ESV​

There was no failure of God’s chosen elect at the first advent, and as a result, it is foolish for RT to base its presupposition of conditionality of Israel’s the promise to the land on the failures of the vessels fit for destruction. As I’ve been affirming on the threads, “Dispensationalism Refuted” and the “Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of ‘Replacement Theology,’” RT is blind to the evidence that Judah’s fall and exile was prophesied in Zechariah 10 and 11, which substantiates the assessment that the ministration of the Kingdom of God was taken from Judah and given to Ephraim, the nation that bears the fruit in Matthew 21:43, with the gentiles fulfilling the fruit. The weightier analysis of Jonah and the conditions of Deuteronomy 28 maintain the clear evidence that the “Jerusalem which is above” is the Zion in Isaiah, Ephraim, that is illustrated as being raised by the Servant Christ and to whom Christ draws the gentiles.

But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me…. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. Isaiah 49:14, 20-23 KJV

Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee…. The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 60:5, 14 KJV

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified…. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves…. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed. Isaiah 61:3, 6, 9 KJV​

Zion is clearly Ephraim, who in the last days, as one of the sons of Joseph, Jacob prophecies “from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel” Christ.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV​

Since the gentiles are heirs to Abraham’s covenant in Christ (Galatians 3:29) then they inherit the land and not heaven. Again, references to the contrary are based only on a superficial analysis.
 
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Dave L

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Let me preface the beginning of this thread with an article that conveys the foundation of replacement theology (RT).

Cottrell used replacement theology (a.k.a. supersessionism)10 to explain the abortive predictions about Israel’s future glory and to argue for the concept of conditional prophecy. For instance: “The promises and predictions given through the Old Testament prophets originally applied to literal Israel and were to have been fulfilled to them on the condition that they obey God and remain loyal to Him.”11 Note Cottrell’s careful wording in his explanation of this line of reasoning: “God’s promises to Israel were all conditional.”12 Subtle but noteworthy! Here the word “promises” stands in for prophecy and predictions, and the adjective “conditional” is hiding at the end of the sentence rather than directly preceding “promises.” (https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/Adventist_Today_Online/2017/2017_04.pdf)​

There are numerous fallacious conclusions that are drawn from the presupposition that the prophecies to Israel, the biological descendants of Jacob, were conditional. One of these conclusions is that the church inherits “heaven” at Christ’s return. I will return to posit on this false conclusion but first the presupposition that the prophecies to Israel were conditional must be shown to be a falsehood.

RT’s foundation is constructed upon references such as the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy 28 and the book of Jonah, which superficially sustains the view of conditional prophecy. Jonah, in particular, is used to maintain the conditionality of prophecy but, as stated, this is only based on a superficial analysis of Jonah. The superficiality stems from the oversight that God’s influence overcame Johan’s carnal desire to disobey God, which ultimately led to Johan’s obedience. God’s influence over Johan’s volition substantiates compatibilism as opposed to libertarian free will, and the presumption of conditional prophecy is built upon libertarian free will; but God is in control of man, man does not control God’s will. The recognition of the compatibilist’s grounds in analyzing the book of Jonah substantiates the discernment that Nineveh’s repentance was also due to God’s moving against the carnal nature of the collective body of Nineveh to disobey; the NT is clear enough that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God; it is at enmity with God.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:5-7 KJV​

Due to the fall of man, the minds of the Ninevites were undoubtedly carnal, after the flesh, incapable of repentance. Any analysis of true weight must come to the conclusion that God’s influence overcame the carnal desires of the body of Ninevites and caused them to repent. Furthermore, the compatibilist rendition does not negate moral responsibility as the NT also affirms that, due to the fall of man, man’s volition fell into bondage to his carnal nature and cannot resist sinning but in being cognizant of his sinful acts he is made morally responsible.

For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Romans 7:19-23 ESV​

Paul goes on to affirm that the only deliverance from the bondage of the carnal mind is Christ or, in essence, the provision of the New Covenant where God will put His laws into the minds, and write them on their hearts of the chosen who become party to Israel’s New Covenant. The book of Jonah or the conditions of the Mosaic Covenant are of no true aid to RT’s false presupposition that the prophecies to Israel that they would inherit the land forever were conditional. The conditional blessings of the Mosaic covenant were merely a schoolmaster to teach the children of Israel the lesson Paul conveys in Romans 9.

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory---even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? Romans 9:22-24 ESV​

Many are called, but few are chosen! The conditional blessings of the Mosaic covenant were ephemeral and not the basis of the promise to Abraham that he and his descendants would inherit the land forever; the promise to Abraham and his descendants was unconditional and could not be annulled by the Mosaic covenant because it was in Christ that it would be fulfilled.

This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Galatians 3:17-19 ESV​

There was no failure of God’s chosen elect at the first advent, and as a result, it is foolish for RT to base its presupposition of conditionality of Israel’s the promise to the land on the failures of the vessels fit for destruction. As I’ve been affirming on the threads, “Dispensationalism Refuted” and the “Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of ‘Replacement Theology,’” RT is blind to the evidence that Judah’s fall and exile was prophesied in Zechariah 10 and 11, which substantiates the assessment that the ministration of the Kingdom of God was taken from Judah and given to Ephraim, the nation that bears the fruit in Matthew 21:43, with the gentiles fulfilling the fruit. The weightier analysis of Jonah and the conditions of Deuteronomy 28 maintain the clear evidence that the “Jerusalem which is above” is the Zion in Isaiah, Ephraim, that is illustrated as being raised by the Servant Christ and to whom Christ draws the gentiles.

But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me…. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. Isaiah 49:14, 20-23 KJV

Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee…. The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 60:5, 14 KJV

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified…. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves…. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed. Isaiah 61:3, 6, 9 KJV​

Zion is clearly Ephraim, who in the last days, as one of the sons of Joseph, Jacob prophecies “from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel” Christ.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV​

Since the gentiles are heirs to Abraham’s covenant in Christ (Galatians 3:29) then they inherit the land and not heaven. Again, references to the contrary are based only on a superficial analysis.
If the broken off unbelieving Jews are Israel, to whom are they reattached upon believing?

“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:23–24)
 
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keras

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Christians are not the "replacement of the Jews" as the chosen people, the Bible says that Christians are added into God’s people, by reason of their faith.


It was prophesied long ago in Amos 9:11-12 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, says the LORD that doeth this.

It was prophesied that those "outside the camp" would become worthy to be part of the Lord’s people. Jesus touched on this in His parable of the wedding feast in Matthew 22:1-14…... For many are called, but few are chosen.

Romans 9:30-31 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
In other words, do we now have a problem that the unchosen Gentiles that became chosen and the chosen Israelites chose to become unchosen by blatant apostasy?

  • Romans 11:1-2 I say then: Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Paul makes a good point here. But as Paul WAS a Jew, he makes it clear in this passage, he retained his Jewishness. The only difference between him and the lost Jews is that he chose to believe Jesus. So in actuality, God never replaced them, they left Him all on their own and now every Christian has been grafted into the ‘olive tree’ of the righteous Israel of God.

Jesus came and they rejected Him:
  • Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. [Every born again Christian]
Apostles later confirmed:
  • Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
  • Acts 15:14-17, Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
The conclusion is that nobody is ‘replaced’, just that salvation is available to all who freely choose to believe in God and who accept the Atoning sacrifice of Jesus.

There is: ONLY ONE PEOPLE OF GOD.
 
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BABerean2

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Let me preface the beginning of this thread with an article that conveys the foundation of replacement theology (RT).

The charge of "Replacement Theology" usually comes from those promoting John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine.

An understanding of the New Covenant kills the Two Peoples of God doctrine.



Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Let me preface the beginning of this thread with an article that conveys the foundation of replacement theology (RT).

Cottrell used replacement theology (a.k.a. supersessionism)10 to explain the abortive predictions about Israel’s future glory and to argue for the concept of conditional prophecy. For instance: “The promises and predictions given through the Old Testament prophets originally applied to literal Israel and were to have been fulfilled to them on the condition that they obey God and remain loyal to Him.”11 Note Cottrell’s careful wording in his explanation of this line of reasoning: “God’s promises to Israel were all conditional.”12 Subtle but noteworthy! Here the word “promises” stands in for prophecy and predictions, and the adjective “conditional” is hiding at the end of the sentence rather than directly preceding “promises.” (https://www.andrews.edu/library/car/cardigital/Periodicals/Adventist_Today_Online/2017/2017_04.pdf)​

There are numerous fallacious conclusions that are drawn from the presupposition that the prophecies to Israel, the biological descendants of Jacob, were conditional. One of these conclusions is that the church inherits “heaven” at Christ’s return. I will return to posit on this false conclusion but first the presupposition that the prophecies to Israel were conditional must be shown to be a falsehood.

RT’s foundation is constructed upon references such as the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy 28 and the book of Jonah, which superficially sustains the view of conditional prophecy. Jonah, in particular, is used to maintain the conditionality of prophecy but, as stated, this is only based on a superficial analysis of Jonah. The superficiality stems from the oversight that God’s influence overcame Johan’s carnal desire to disobey God, which ultimately led to Johan’s obedience. God’s influence over Johan’s volition substantiates compatibilism as opposed to libertarian free will, and the presumption of conditional prophecy is built upon libertarian free will; but God is in control of man, man does not control God’s will. The recognition of the compatibilist’s grounds in analyzing the book of Jonah substantiates the discernment that Nineveh’s repentance was also due to God’s moving against the carnal nature of the collective body of Nineveh to disobey; the NT is clear enough that the carnal mind is not subject to the law of God; it is at enmity with God.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:5-7 KJV​

Due to the fall of man, the minds of the Ninevites were undoubtedly carnal, after the flesh, incapable of repentance. Any analysis of true weight must come to the conclusion that God’s influence overcame the carnal desires of the body of Ninevites and caused them to repent. Furthermore, the compatibilist rendition does not negate moral responsibility as the NT also affirms that, due to the fall of man, man’s volition fell into bondage to his carnal nature and cannot resist sinning but in being cognizant of his sinful acts he is made morally responsible.

For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Romans 7:19-23 ESV​

Paul goes on to affirm that the only deliverance from the bondage of the carnal mind is Christ or, in essence, the provision of the New Covenant where God will put His laws into the minds, and write them on their hearts of the chosen who become party to Israel’s New Covenant. The book of Jonah or the conditions of the Mosaic Covenant are of no true aid to RT’s false presupposition that the prophecies to Israel that they would inherit the land forever were conditional. The conditional blessings of the Mosaic covenant were merely a schoolmaster to teach the children of Israel the lesson Paul conveys in Romans 9.

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory---even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? Romans 9:22-24 ESV​

Many are called, but few are chosen! The conditional blessings of the Mosaic covenant were ephemeral and not the basis of the promise to Abraham that he and his descendants would inherit the land forever; the promise to Abraham and his descendants was unconditional and could not be annulled by the Mosaic covenant because it was in Christ that it would be fulfilled.

This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Galatians 3:17-19 ESV​

There was no failure of God’s chosen elect at the first advent, and as a result, it is foolish for RT to base its presupposition of conditionality of Israel’s the promise to the land on the failures of the vessels fit for destruction. As I’ve been affirming on the threads, “Dispensationalism Refuted” and the “Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of ‘Replacement Theology,’” RT is blind to the evidence that Judah’s fall and exile was prophesied in Zechariah 10 and 11, which substantiates the assessment that the ministration of the Kingdom of God was taken from Judah and given to Ephraim, the nation that bears the fruit in Matthew 21:43, with the gentiles fulfilling the fruit. The weightier analysis of Jonah and the conditions of Deuteronomy 28 maintain the clear evidence that the “Jerusalem which is above” is the Zion in Isaiah, Ephraim, that is illustrated as being raised by the Servant Christ and to whom Christ draws the gentiles.

But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me…. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. Isaiah 49:14, 20-23 KJV

Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee…. The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 60:5, 14 KJV

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified…. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves…. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed. Isaiah 61:3, 6, 9 KJV​

Zion is clearly Ephraim, who in the last days, as one of the sons of Joseph, Jacob prophecies “from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel” Christ.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV​

Since the gentiles are heirs to Abraham’s covenant in Christ (Galatians 3:29) then they inherit the land and not heaven. Again, references to the contrary are based only on a superficial analysis.

Hi Jerry, thanks for the time you have put into your OP. A little long but I read most of it. If you are interested, God's WORD is very clear on who God's ISRAEL is in the NEW COVENANT.

Here is a detailed scripture response linking the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures here click me.

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S BELIEVING ISRAEL linked

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29

God bless.
 
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The Righterzpen

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Reality is that none of those elect from the foundations of the world have ever been "replaced" by anyone else.

All who become believers are elect. It doesn't matter what nation they come from or when they were born.

If you were a believer before Noah's flood; you were elect. If you were a believer in the days of Job; you were elect. Abraham's day, in "the church in the wilderness" (with Moses); during the end of the 1st century; after the Protestant Reformation; five minutes ago. You are still "the elect".

God promised Abraham a seed. God gave Abraham a seed. That seed ultimately was Jesus Christ. He was the vehicle by with all the nations of the world would be blessed. They are blessed because He provides atonement.

I know people (even Scripture speaks of) an "old" covenant and a "new" covenant; but isn't it actually really one covenant? The only one who ever kept "the Law" was Christ. He was the fulfillment of it.

We know the ceremonial law was shadows of what the Redeemer would accomplish.

Even the "moral law" is fulfilled in Christ, because once the Holy Ghost indwells someone, God being a moral entity compels that person to morality that is just and equitable and compassionate, as well as being obedient and exercised in wisdom. Love isn't always "nice" but it is always full of grace to the humble who are seeking God in truth.

I know that the 20/20 hindsight of looking back at history has presented all of us with the warts of all "theological systems". Some obviously are more far off base than others. We have a huge advantage in this day and age; far above any generation before us. We have more access to information than any of our ancestors could have ever dreamed. There really is no earthly reason for us to not know our Bibles better than we do. We have the tools to figure a lot of this stuff out; we just have to dig. It's not rocket science; but still God resists the proud.
 
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royal priest

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Though God, by His providence, does restrain sin, He is emphatic that righteousness is not possible through the law, but by faith in the Messiah. Jesus is therefore the only hope of salvation for not only Gentiles, but also of the Jews as it is written, there is no distinction between Jew and Greek.
Colossians 3:11
There is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
 
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BABerean2

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Even the "moral law" is fulfilled in Christ, because once the Holy Ghost indwells someone, God being a moral entity compels that person to morality that is just and equitable and compassionate, as well as being obedient and exercised in wisdom. Love isn't always "nice" but it is always full of grace to the humble who are seeking God in truth.


You are on the right track.
However, many Christians do not understand that we are under the law of Christ.


There are two different sets of commandments in the verse below.


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.



The New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.


Christ contrasts the two covenants below with the words “But I say…



Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'

Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Mat 5:25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.

Mat 5:26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.



Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'

Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.



Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'

Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.



Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'

Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.

Mat 5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.



Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.

Mat 5:41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.

Mat 5:42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.



Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

Mat 5:47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.



Confirmation of the contrast between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is found below.


2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

(Why did Paul compare the ten commandments to a ministry of death?)



Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar

Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

(Why did Paul compel the Galatian believers to “cast out” the Sinai Covenant of “bondage”?)



Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.



Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, in as much as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. (Was this written in the present tense during the first century?)

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Is that mountain Mount Sinai?)

Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.

Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."

Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Is this verse speaking of the “church” of Jesus Christ?)

Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.



In Galatians 3:16-29 the Apostle Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. Paul said the law was “added” 430 years “after” the promise made to Abraham “until” the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

.
 
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The Righterzpen

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You are on the right track.
However, many Christians do not understand that we are under the law of Christ.


There are two different sets of commandments in the verse below.


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.



The New Covenant is a higher standard than the Old Covenant, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.


Christ contrasts the two covenants below with the words “But I say…



Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'

Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Mat 5:25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.

Mat 5:26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny.



Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'

Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mat 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Mat 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.



Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'

Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.



Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'

Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Mat 5:35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

Mat 5:36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.

Mat 5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.



Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Mat 5:40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.

Mat 5:41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.

Mat 5:42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.



Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

Mat 5:47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?

Mat 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.



Confirmation of the contrast between the Old Covenant and New Covenant is found below.


2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,

2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

(Why did Paul compare the ten commandments to a ministry of death?)



Gal 4:24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar

Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written: "REJOICE, O BARREN, YOU WHO DO NOT BEAR! BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR! FOR THE DESOLATE HAS MANY MORE CHILDREN THAN SHE WHO HAS A HUSBAND."

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN."

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

(Why did Paul compel the Galatian believers to “cast out” the Sinai Covenant of “bondage”?)



Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.



Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, in as much as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. (Was this written in the present tense during the first century?)

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.

Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.



Heb 12:18 For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, (Is that mountain Mount Sinai?)

Heb 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore.

Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW."

Heb 12:21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,

Heb 12:23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, (Is this verse speaking of the “church” of Jesus Christ?)

Heb 12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.



In Galatians 3:16-29 the Apostle Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. Paul said the law was “added” 430 years “after” the promise made to Abraham “until” the seed(Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

.

Many good points here!

I know Jesus frequently chided the religious leaders for failure to uphold "the spirit" of the law. Which has got me thinking that maybe they really aren't "different covenants"? Which I know sounds weird, because the Scripture uses "Old" / "New" language itself.

But maybe.... is it more like not "old" and "new" but "first" and "last"? Just like the "first Adam" and the "last Adam"? He who's of the earth "earthy" can't fulfill the law. But he who's born of the Spirit does. Because the real intent of the law, was that it be followed in Spirit. Is that what it means when it says "the law is spiritual" or "spiritually discerned"?
 
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BABerean2

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Many good points here!

I know Jesus frequently chided the religious leaders for failure to uphold "the spirit" of the law. Which has got me thinking that maybe they really aren't "different covenants"? Which I know sounds weird, because the Scripture uses "Old" / "New" language itself.

But maybe.... is it more like not "old" and "new" but "first" and "last"? Just like the "first Adam" and the "last Adam"? He who's of the earth "earthy" can't fulfill the law. But he who's born of the Spirit does. Because the real intent of the law, was that it be followed in Spirit. Is that what it means when it says "the law is spiritual" or "spiritually discerned"?


.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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If the broken off unbelieving Jews are Israel, to whom are they reattached upon believing?

“And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?” (Romans 11:23–24)

Romans 9-11 substantiates the broken off branches who remain in unbelief are not Israel.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. Romans 9:6-7 ESV​

The statement “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” clearly denotes that “some are Israel”, the children of the promise that Paul conveys as those who are “called” in verse 24, the “beloved” in verse 25, God’s “people” in 26, the “remnant” in verse 29. Conversely, the “children of the flesh” are noted as those who sought righteousness by attempting to keep the law, verses 30-33. Romans 9 also attests through which descendants of Abraham are the gentiles blessed in Genesis 22:18.

As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'" Romans 9:25-26 ESV​

Hosea prophesied of the age the descendants of the ten northern tribes, the nation of Israel/Ephraim, would be restored as God’s covenant people once more, which is precisely what the inauguration of the New Covenant accomplishes.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah… Hebrews 8:7-8 ESV​

Then I said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.'" When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:8-10 ESV​

The inauguration of the new covenant was accomplished by the body of Christ, which Romans 7 maintains also released Judah and Ephraim/Israel from the marriage contract of the Old Covenant.

Or do you not know, brothers---for I am speaking to those who know the law---that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. Romans 7:1-4 ESV​

The law Paul refers to was Deuteronomy 24:4 that established that it was unlawful for a defiled wife to return to her first husband, which inhibited Ephraim/Israel restoration as a covenant people, insomuch as both Old and New Testaments reveal it was pre-incarnate Christ to whom they were married at Sinai (Judges 2:1; 1 Corinthians 10:1-4). While Juda, for the most part, rejected Christ, Peter testifies of his ordained success with the elect exiles of the dispersion, Ephraim/Israel.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. 1 Peter 1:1-2 ESV​

Further analysis, which I’ve posted on the threads “Dispensationalism Refuted” and the “Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of ‘Replacement Theology,’” vindicate that it was ordained that it was specifically Ephraim/Israel that fulfills the “descendants of Abraham”, through which the gentiles are blessed in Genesis 22:18.

and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice." Genesis 22:18 ESV​

As I stated in the initial post, Abraham and his offspring’s inheritance of the land was based upon the Abrahamic Covenant, which the Covenant at Sinai could not annul (Galatian 3:17). And while Paul adds the progressive revelation that the offspring or “seed” in Genesis 22:18 has a “singular” meaning in Christ he also reaffirmed the “collective” or corporate meaning in Galatians 3:29. The progressive revelation is Paul’s contribution through the Holy Spirit but it cannot destroy the grammatical-historical sense or it is not truly progressive revelation. Progressive revelation can add information but it cannot take away what the original intent and that is exactly what RT as well as dispensationalism attempt. Paul reveals the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied.

And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again. Zechariah 10:7-9 KJV​

This was written after the return from the Babylonian captivity and prophecy of another diaspora, specifically for Ephraim, which is also the name in the OT for the ten northern tribes, as is Joseph, in contrast to Judah. In essence, God would hiss, or call Ephraim and gather them in Christ and then scatter them in the world to bring in the gentiles, which was not the plan for Judah. The plan for Ephraim is the source of the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Isaiah is the most informative of Ephraim/Israel’s mission to the gentiles and the fulfillment of Genesis 22:18 in his prophecy of Zion and the Servant, Christ.

And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified… And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servantto raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth…. But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me…. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. Isaiah 49:3, 5 14, 20-23 KJV​

We are the latter children of Zion, Ephraim/Israel, in Isaiah 49.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV​
 
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Dave L

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Romans 9-11 substantiates the broken off branches who remain in unbelief are not Israel.

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. Romans 9:6-7 ESV​

The statement “For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” clearly denotes that “some are Israel”, the children of the promise that Paul conveys as those who are “called” in verse 24, the “beloved” in verse 25, God’s “people” in 26, the “remnant” in verse 29. Conversely, the “children of the flesh” are noted as those who sought righteousness by attempting to keep the law, verses 30-33. Romans 9 also attests through which descendants of Abraham are the gentiles blessed in Genesis 22:18.

As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'" Romans 9:25-26 ESV​

Hosea prophesied of the age the descendants of the ten northern tribes, the nation of Israel/Ephraim, would be restored as God’s covenant people once more, which is precisely what the inauguration of the New Covenant accomplishes.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah… Hebrews 8:7-8 ESV​

Then I said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.'" When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:8-10 ESV​

The inauguration of the new covenant was accomplished by the body of Christ, which Romans 7 maintains also released Judah and Ephraim/Israel from the marriage contract of the Old Covenant.

Or do you not know, brothers---for I am speaking to those who know the law---that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. Romans 7:1-4 ESV​

The law Paul refers to was Deuteronomy 24:4 that established that it was unlawful for a defiled wife to return to her first husband, which inhibited Ephraim/Israel restoration as a covenant people, insomuch as both Old and New Testaments reveal it was pre-incarnate Christ to whom they were married at Sinai (Judges 2:1; 1 Corinthians 10:1-4). While Juda, for the most part, rejected Christ, Peter testifies of his ordained success with the elect exiles of the dispersion, Ephraim/Israel.

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. 1 Peter 1:1-2 ESV​

Further analysis, which I’ve posted on the threads “Dispensationalism Refuted” and the “Battle of Dual Covenant Theology and the Charge of ‘Replacement Theology,’” vindicate that it was ordained that it was specifically Ephraim/Israel that fulfills the “descendants of Abraham”, through which the gentiles are blessed in Genesis 22:18.

and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice." Genesis 22:18 ESV​

As I stated in the initial post, Abraham and his offspring’s inheritance of the land was based upon the Abrahamic Covenant, which the Covenant at Sinai could not annul (Galatian 3:17). And while Paul adds the progressive revelation that the offspring or “seed” in Genesis 22:18 has a “singular” meaning in Christ he also reaffirmed the “collective” or corporate meaning in Galatians 3:29. The progressive revelation is Paul’s contribution through the Holy Spirit but it cannot destroy the grammatical-historical sense or it is not truly progressive revelation. Progressive revelation can add information but it cannot take away what the original intent and that is exactly what RT as well as dispensationalism attempt. Paul reveals the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah prophesied.

And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine: yea, their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the LORD. I will hiss for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them: and they shall increase as they have increased. And I will sow them among the people: and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and turn again. Zechariah 10:7-9 KJV​

This was written after the return from the Babylonian captivity and prophecy of another diaspora, specifically for Ephraim, which is also the name in the OT for the ten northern tribes, as is Joseph, in contrast to Judah. In essence, God would hiss, or call Ephraim and gather them in Christ and then scatter them in the world to bring in the gentiles, which was not the plan for Judah. The plan for Ephraim is the source of the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. Isaiah is the most informative of Ephraim/Israel’s mission to the gentiles and the fulfillment of Genesis 22:18 in his prophecy of Zion and the Servant, Christ.

And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified… And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servantto raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth…. But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me…. The children which thou shalt have, after thou hast lost the other, shall say again in thine ears, The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell. Then shalt thou say in thine heart, Who hath begotten me these, seeing I have lost my children, and am desolate, a captive, and removing to and fro? and who hath brought up these? Behold, I was left alone; these, where had they been? Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders. And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. Isaiah 49:3, 5 14, 20-23 KJV​

We are the latter children of Zion, Ephraim/Israel, in Isaiah 49.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24 KJV​
Jesus is Israel along with those who believe in him. It is into Christ the broken off Jews would be reattached in faith.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Hi Jerry, thanks for the time you have put into your OP. A little long but I read most of it. If you are interested, God's WORD is very clear on who God's ISRAEL is in the NEW COVENANT.

Here is a detailed scripture response linking the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures here click me.

1. ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE 12 TRIBES linked
2. MEANING OF THE NAME OF GOD'S ISRAEL linked
3. GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT IS GOD'S CHURCH linked
4. GENTILES ARE NOW GRAFTED IN WITH GOD'S BELIEVING ISRAEL linked

Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29

God bless.

Hello to whomever I address.

The church is the vehicle by which Christ raises the tribes of Jacob and sends the light to the Gentiles in Isaiah 49. This is the Zion in Hebrews 12. Keep reading the posts and you will find Ephraim/Israel is the nation in Matthew 21:43 and the gentiles are the fruit.
 
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Dave L

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Hello to whomever I address.

The church is the vehicle by which Christ raises the tribes of Jacob and sends the light to the Gentiles in Isaiah 49. This is the Zion in Hebrews 12. Keep reading the posts and you will find Ephraim/Israel is the nation in Matthew 21:43 and the gentiles are the fruit.
The church is Israel.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Jesus is Israel along with those who believe in him. It is into Christ the broken off Jews would be reattached in faith.

Superficial response. In Galatians 3-4 Paul reveals the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent of Genesis 22:18. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah 10:7-10 prophesied.
 
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Dave L

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Superficial response. In Galatians 3-4 Paul reveals the gentiles are fellow heirs in Christ and through the assistance of the biological descendants of Abraham, the latter being the original intent of Genesis 22:18. The offspring or seed in the “collective” sense, by which the gentiles were ordained to be blessed, was and is being fulfilled by the descendants of Ephraim/Israel of which Zechariah 10:7-10 prophesied.
Paul and the Apostle's were Israel to which believing gentiles were added.
 
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Jerryhuerta

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Paul and the Apostle's were Israel to which believing gentiles were added.

Even such superficial responses as this maintain the "seed" in Galatians 3 is fulfilled by the "collective" sense of the biological descendants of Abraham, in fulfillment of Genesis 22:28. Digging deeper reveals them as Ephraim/Israel and maintains the grammatical-historical sense, which your RT destroys.
 
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Even such superficial responses as this maintain the "seed" in Galatians 3 is fulfilled by the "collective" sense of the biological descendants of Abraham, in fulfillment of Genesis 22:28. Digging deeper reveals them as Ephraim/Israel and maintains the grammatical-historical sense, which your RT destroys.
When Jesus abolished circumcision, he abolished Physical Jewry and Physical Israel. After Paul's generation died off, all that remain are gentiles calling themselves by that name.
 
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