Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Please: Learn the TRUE Greek meaning of "perfect / perfected"

Matthew 5:48 (NASB)...Jesus: Sermon on the Mount
Therefore you are to be perfect,
as your heavenly Father is perfect.

perfect...Greek 5046...teleios...(= NOT: without FAULT)
I.brought to its end, finished
II.wanting nothing necessary to completeness (mature)
III....
IV.that which is perfect
A.consummate human integrity and virtue
B.of men
i.full grown, adult, of full age, MATURE

Chances are you don't know how to translate a page of English into Greek with the people of Greece agreeing with your translation. So you are not qualified to offer a translation.

Besides, Jesus compares being perfect like the Father is perfect. This is in behavior. For to suggest otherwise doesn't make any sense. The Father is perfect because He is holy and perfect and sinless.

We are also told to perfect holiness in the fear of God. Again, this is holy living or in living righteously. If perfect did not really mean perfect here then there is no reason to fear. We can just be sort of holy. But the Bible never says we can just be sort of holy.

...
 
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disciple1

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This study goes over why it is necessary to stop sinning, which is what "repent" actually means, what the circumcision of the heart is, what the baptism of the holy spirit causes, and the purpose of the first coming of Jesus Christ to not only atone for sin, but to end it. The study can be found in English here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God or in Spanish here Arrepentimiento y No Pecar Más, Perfección y Nacido del Espíritu | Sabiduria de Dios , let us begin a discussion on this matter here.
I think your mistaken here are some verses that will show you what repent means.
to stop sinning, which is what "repent" actually means,
Matthew chapter 21
32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Luke chapter 3

7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 9 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

10 “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.

11 John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,” they asked, “what should we do?”

13 “Don’t collect any more than you are required to,” he told them.

14 Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?”

He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”
 
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Ron Gurley

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Time for those scary words: " REPENT! /REPENTANCE" ?

My views on " Repent / Repentance":

" repent / repentance" is not a pre-requisite of nor condition for the salvation
..as outlined in John 3 + Ephesians 2/
Grace and Spirit-led and given gifts of FAITH/BELIEF are the sole keys.
God spiritually calls/. Man's spirit accepts.
Man's spirit is changed: born again from above....salvation!

REPENT (all cites NASB) = spiritually "THINK AGAIN"?: = STOP + spiritually TURN AROUND toward GOD?

metamelomai - me-tä-me'-lo-mi - repent, repent (one's) self
metanoeo - me-tä-no-e'-o - repent
ametameletos - ä-me-tä-me'-la-tos -
= without repentance, not to be repented of
metanoia - me-tä'-noi-ä - repentance

DICTIONARY:...intransitive verb
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one's mind

To Me, repent simply means: RE-THINK...spiritually turning to God when He calls / draws you.

Repentance in context has TWO meanings:

1. repent UNTO salvation...God calls/draws you to Him from sinful self...turning to God to ACCEPT THE GIFT!

e.g. Jesus preached:

Mark 1 (NASB)...Jesus Preaches in Galilee
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel (good news) of God, 15 and saying,
“The time is fulfilled, and the "kingdom of God" is at hand; (Jesus the Divine Messiah had come!)
repent AND believe in the "gospel".” (Jesus the Divine Messiah had come!)

Luke 24...Jesus: AFTER The Resurrection
47 and that repentance for (because of?) forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Romans 2 (NASB)
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience,
not knowing that the kindness (GRACE!) of God (the Holy Spirit) LEADS you to repentance?

2 Cor. 7:10
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a "repentance without regret",
leading to salvation,
but the sorrow of the world produces death.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you, (unbelievers?)
not wishing for ANY to perish
but for ALL to come to repentance.(turning to God)

2 Timothy 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance (RE-THINKING) leading to the knowledge of the truth,

2. repent BACK into fellowship after sinning...e.g. The Parable of the Prodigal Son

Luke 15 (NASB)...Jesus and the Parable of "The Lost Coin"
10 In the same way, I tell you,
there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner (all of us!) who repents.”

Repentance for believers involves CONFESSION
and claiming the cleansing and forgiveness of sins purchased by Jesus' completed work on the Cross.


1 John 1...God Is Light...for believers ONLY!
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light,
and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
we lie and do not PRACTICE the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have FELLOWSHIP with "one another", (BELIEVERS)
and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess (AGREE WITH GOD ABOUT) our sins,
He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

MORE explantion on Repent / Repentance!

Matthew 4 (NASB)...Jesus begins His Ministry
17 From that time (start of His Ministry) Jesus began to PREACH and say,
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
(...Jesus the Messiah had come!)

Mark 1 (NASB)...Jesus Preaches in Galilee (SEE ABOVE
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel (good news)of God, 15 and saying,
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
(...Jesus the Messiah had come!)

Luke 5 (NASB)...Jesus among "sinners"
30 The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?”
31 And Jesus answered and said to them,
“It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.
32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Luke 24...Jesus: AFTER The Resurrection
44 Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, (SUPER Bible Study!)
46 and He said to them,
“Thus it is written,
that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead (on) the third day,
47 and that repentance for (because of?) forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” (Pentecost/God the Holy Spirit indwells all believers)

Hebrews 6 (NASB)
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to MATURITY,
NOT laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of FAITH toward God,
2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
 
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cgaviria

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Time for those scary words: " REPENT! /REPENTANCE" ?

My views on " Repent / Repentance":

" repent / repentance" is not a pre-requisite of nor condition for the salvation
..as outlined in John 3 + Ephesians 2/
Grace and Spirit-led and given gifts of FAITH/BELIEF are the sole keys.
God spiritually calls/. Man's spirit accepts.
Man's spirit is changed: born again from above....salvation!

REPENT (all cites NASB) = spiritually "THINK AGAIN"?: = STOP + spiritually TURN AROUND toward GOD?

metamelomai - me-tä-me'-lo-mi - repent, repent (one's) self
metanoeo - me-tä-no-e'-o - repent
ametameletos - ä-me-tä-me'-la-tos -
= without repentance, not to be repented of
metanoia - me-tä'-noi-ä - repentance

DICTIONARY:...intransitive verb
1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one's mind

To Me, repent simply means: RE-THINK...spiritually turning to God when He calls / draws you.

Repentance in context has TWO meanings:

1. repent UNTO salvation...God calls/draws you to Him from sinful self...turning to God to ACCEPT THE GIFT!

e.g. Jesus preached:

Mark 1 (NASB)...Jesus Preaches in Galilee
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel (good news) of God, 15 and saying,
“The time is fulfilled, and the "kingdom of God" is at hand; (Jesus the Divine Messiah had come!)
repent AND believe in the "gospel".” (Jesus the Divine Messiah had come!)

Luke 24...Jesus: AFTER The Resurrection
47 and that repentance for (because of?) forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

Romans 2 (NASB)
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience,
not knowing that the kindness (GRACE!) of God (the Holy Spirit) LEADS you to repentance?

2 Cor. 7:10
For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a "repentance without regret",
leading to salvation,
but the sorrow of the world produces death.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
but is patient toward you, (unbelievers?)
not wishing for ANY to perish
but for ALL to come to repentance.(turning to God)

2 Timothy 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance (RE-THINKING) leading to the knowledge of the truth,

2. repent BACK into fellowship after sinning...e.g. The Parable of the Prodigal Son

Luke 15 (NASB)...Jesus and the Parable of "The Lost Coin"
10 In the same way, I tell you,
there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner (all of us!) who repents.”

Repentance for believers involves CONFESSION
and claiming the cleansing and forgiveness of sins purchased by Jesus' completed work on the Cross.


1 John 1...God Is Light...for believers ONLY!
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light,
and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have FELLOWSHIP with Him and yet walk in the darkness,
we lie and do not PRACTICE the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have FELLOWSHIP with "one another", (BELIEVERS)
and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess (AGREE WITH GOD ABOUT) our sins,
He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

MORE explantion on Repent / Repentance!

Matthew 4 (NASB)...Jesus begins His Ministry
17 From that time (start of His Ministry) Jesus began to PREACH and say,
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
(...Jesus the Messiah had come!)

Mark 1 (NASB)...Jesus Preaches in Galilee (SEE ABOVE
14 Now after John (the Baptizer) had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel (good news)of God, 15 and saying,
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
(...Jesus the Messiah had come!)

Luke 5 (NASB)...Jesus among "sinners"
30 The Pharisees and their scribes began grumbling at His disciples, saying, “Why do you eat and drink with the tax collectors and sinners?”
31 And Jesus answered and said to them,
“It is not those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick.
32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

Luke 24...Jesus: AFTER The Resurrection
44 Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, (SUPER Bible Study!)
46 and He said to them,
“Thus it is written,
that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead (on) the third day,
47 and that repentance for (because of?) forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 You are witnesses of these things.
49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” (Pentecost/God the Holy Spirit indwells all believers)

Hebrews 6 (NASB)
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to MATURITY,
NOT laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of FAITH toward God,
2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

"Repentance is not a pre-requisite of nor condition for the salvation"? HA. I can't with some of you people. Not even gonna argue about it, keep thinking what you're thinking and see what happens.
 
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cgaviria

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He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.”

Did this verse somehow elude you? "Don't extort means and don't accuse people falsely" means to stop committing those specific sins, hence repentance.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Post #68: ""Repentance is not a pre-requisite of nor condition for the salvation"? HA.
I can't (deal?) with some of you people. Not even gonna argue about it, keep thinking what you're thinking and see what happens."

Hey Fearless Leader! "Not even gonna argue about it" Whazza matter, CHICKEN?
 
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cgaviria

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Post #68: ""Repentance is not a pre-requisite of nor condition for the salvation"? HA.
I can't (deal?) with some of you people. Not even gonna argue about it, keep thinking what you're thinking and see what happens."

Hey Fearless Leader! "Not even gonna argue about it" Whazza matter, CHICKEN?

You can't argue with someone who thinks repentance is not necessary. It's like saying that a murderer does not need to stop murdering before coming to Jesus Christ. I'm sorry bro, but you are in great error. Learn about repentance first, then we can have an intelligent discussion on other matters. Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .
 
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Post 69: ' ...you don't know how to translate a page of English into Greek...'

Sure I do. Most serious Bible scholars know how to trace their English Bibles in any version back in Greek and Hebrew. Here is the easiest computer way:

Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

Yes, I am aware of BlueLetterBible for a long time now. The key is that you can only know what the Greek might say based off of looking at the English. Without any English, and it would be just like static on a TV for you. There is also difference in a computer translating and you translating. One involves the understanding the other does not involve any understanding (because it just involves pushing a couple of buttons). Also, if you were to do a search at BlueLetterBible, you have a wide variety of definitions that you need to choose from. How do we know James Strong and his buddies got it right? How do we know we are picking the right word to define it correctly? This is where the English is so important. A language that you are familar with and a language that God will hold us accountable to. For God is not going to hold you accountable for not knowing another language. His Word has been preserved in our world language today.

For we can know what our Bible says plainly in the English just by:

(a) Prayer.
(b) Context.
(c) Cross References.


...
 
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Ron Gurley

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You can't argue with someone who thinks repentance is not necessary. It's like saying that a murderer does not need to stop murdering before coming to Jesus Christ. I'm sorry bro, but you are in great error. Learn about repentance first, then we can have an intelligent discussion on other matters. Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .

Narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that find it.
The smooth and wide path is the easy way that everyone is on.

Justification (Which would involve Repentance), Sanctification, and Glorification are all necessary parts or steps in salvation.

Repentance:

We know repentance is necessary for salvation.
Jesus said, "except you repent you, you shall all likewise perish." (Luke 13:3).
"Repentance" and "Forsaking Sin" is sort of like Cause and Effect.
They go to together.
Both are necessary to show true repentance.
Repentance is like the Cause (Which is calling out to God for forgiveness).
Forsaking Sin is like the Effect (i.e. Forsaking Sin is the Effect of the Cause of Repentance).

Jesus defined repentance for us.
He said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (Repentance).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (Fruits of Repentance - Which is always the natural after effects of True Repentance).​

After the Ninevites had turned from their wicked ways it was --- THEN --- that God decided to turn away from bringing wrath or Judgment upon them.

Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7 says that if we walk in the light as he [Christ] is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

Repentance is something that a believer does when they first come to the faith. They admit they are a sinner to Jesus and ask Him to be forgiven of their sins. They do this with the intention that they will turn away from sin and never do it again. Repentance can also be done on occasion (and not as a lifestyle) by a believer who has walked with God, as well. This would be 1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:9 (cf. 1 John 1:7).

The parable of the two sons (Matthew 21:28-32) is a lesson also in proper repentance (that includes the proper fruits of repentance). The son who repented and obeyed the father is the one who truly repented.

Justification:

Justification is believing in Jesus Christ as your Savior by faith. Justification is believing that Christ died for your sins and He had risen 3 days later on your behalf. It is initial faith or belief in God that He will save you when you call out to Him in prayer. Believing in Jesus as one's Savior (Justification) is an also an ongoing process for a believer, as well. For our faith and trust in Christ in that He saves us with His sacrifice and resurrection does not end. We will always believe this. It is an important part of the gospel message that saves us. It is how we get cleansed of our past sins. Christ's blood cleanses us of our sins and His resurrection and ascension helps us to have a new life in Him (with Christ being our mediator and heavenly high priest). This is essential to salvation because men are saved by hearing the gospel message (1 Corinthians 15:1-3).

Sanctification:

Sanctification is also a much neglected part of salvation that many ignore. Sanctification is the process that God puts you thru by His working in you to make you holy (According to His Word).

"Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16).
"Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father [God] who is in heaven."
(Matthew 7:21).
"God's will is for you to be holy," (1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT).
Without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
(Galatians 6:7-9).
If any speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"but if you will enter into life, keep the commandments."
(Matthew 19:17).
"If you love me, keep my commandments."
(John 14:15).
"He that loves not knows not God; for God is love."
(1 John 4:8).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"...he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).
"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).
"Ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." (1 John 2:29).
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous" (1 John 3:7).
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother" (1 John 3:10).
25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish"
(Ephesians 5:25-27).
"His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:23).

Glorification:

As for Glorification:
This is a part of salvation that God does 100%.
This is when the body of Christ (the Bride) will rise to meet the Lord in the air. Glorification would also include receiving new heavenly bodies like that of angels (Hence, why John 1:12 says that those who received Him [i.e. Jesus] gave he power to become the sons of God; Sons of God was a reference to angels in the Old Testament; For this mortal must put on immortality). Yes, it is true we will also receive a physical flesh and blood body like Jesus one day, as well. But Glorification is a special event of being with Christ (with Him being in His physical body) up in Heaven. It is the marriage of Christ to the bride (i.e. His faithful church).


...
 
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Neogaia777

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We are FUTURE PERFECT and FUTURE SINLESS only through Jesus Christ, NOT by any effort of our own...
Our efforts and progress with love will drive out sin, without us having to try to stick to some letter or written form of law that we studiously trying to keep, which always fails BTW...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Our efforts and progress with love will drive out sin, without us having to try to stick to some letter or written form of law that we studiously trying to keep, which always fails BTW...

God Bless!
Jesus clearly knew this...
 
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Our efforts and progress with love will drive out sin, without us having to try to stick to some letter or written form of law that we studiously trying to keep, which always fails BTW...

God Bless!

Actually that is not true. It is written that all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect and completely furnished unto every good work.

16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16).


...
 
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NO ONE has ever: "became perfected to never sin again."

All believers continue to sin!! 1 John 1 !!

Does not 1 John 1:8 say that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves?

Answer: Well, what is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at it's immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 moves verse 8 (which is present tense) into a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned at some point in their life (Regardless of whether they are an OSAS believer or a Conditional Salvationist). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for it all by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.


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Neogaia777

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Actually that is not true. It is written that all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect and completely furnished unto every good work.

16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16).


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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, and I not saying that scripture is worthless either, by any means, just that it is about "love" and "love" is the point of it, but, Godly Love not childish worldly love, but mature Godly Love, and this is foreign to most of us, which is why we need scripture...

Peace,

God Bless!

Oh and maturing in Love, Godly Love is what Jesus says all the commandments are all about... So, if you disagree, your disagreeing with me, mind you, but him... And it will and does clear away sin as it grows...

God Bless!
 
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, and I not saying that scripture is worthless either, by any means, just that it is about "love" and "love" is the point of it, but, Godly Love not childish worldly love, but mature Godly Love, and this is foreign to most of us, which is why we need scripture...

Peace,

God Bless!

Oh and maturing in Love, Godly Love is what Jesus says all the commandments are all about... So, if you disagree, your disagreeing with me, mind you, but him... And it will and does clear away sin as it grows...

God Bless!

No. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.
It's not about loving "your way." It's about loving "Yaweh" (or His way).
You are disagreeing with Jesus because Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
You say that it is not about keeping any literal written Word.
Yet, Jesus says abide in me and abide in my words.
Jesus says His words are spirit and they are life.
His words are found in the pages of New Testament by both Himself and His followers.
Jesus says, if one will not receive His words, those very words will judge them on the last day.
Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
For he that shall save his life shall lose it and he that shall hate his life shall save it.
We are told to deny ourselves, to pick up our cross, and to come follow Him (i.e. Jesus).

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Neogaia777

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No. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God.
It's not about loving "your way." It's about loving "Yaweh" (or His way).
You are disagreeing with Jesus because Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
You say that it is not about keeping any literal written Word.
Yet, Jesus says abide in me and abide in my words.
Jesus says His words are spirit and they are life.
His words are found in the pages of New Testament by both Himself and His followers.
Jesus says, if one will not receive His words, those very words will judge them on the last day.
Jesus says if you will enter into life, keep the commandments.
For he that shall save his life shall lose it and he that shall hate his life shall save it.
We are told to deny ourselves, to pick up our cross, and to come follow Him (i.e. Jesus).

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I wonder how many people on here just get tired of talking to you or with you on here, or perhaps just find it pointless, cause I kinda am...

I'm not going to spend and hour or two of time energy and effort trying to explain it all to you...

What I said was true...

Peace,

God Bless!
 
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I wonder how many people on here just get tired of talking to you or with you on here, or perhaps just find it pointless, cause I kinda am...

I'm not going to spend and hour or two of time energy and effort trying to explain it all to you...

What I said was true...

Peace,

God Bless!

May the Lord's love shine upon you this fine day.


...
 
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Neogaia777

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May the Lord's love shine upon you this fine day.


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Ok, this is the main impass we are at, you think it's possible to be perfect, in fact (and this is where were at an impass also), you insist that it's not only possible that people have to attain to it to be saved...?

I think it's possible (but yet highly unlikely, but anyway) I think it might be possible for an individual to become perfect, but we; I think it is only attained by a way and method and approach that you think is wrong, and yours is almost the opposite...

Neither of us are gonna change our minds, it seems, so were also at an impass there...

Peace ,

God Bless!
 
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