Reparations: Let's have a serious talk.

[iluvatar5150]

Jim Crow laws were a collection of state and local statutes that legalized racial segregation. Named after an insulting song lyric regarding African Americans, the laws—which existed for about 100 years, from the post-Civil War era until 1968—were meant to return Southern states to an antebellum class structure by marginalizing black Americans. Black communities and individuals that attempted to defy Jim Crow laws often met with violence and death.
https://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/jim-crow-laws
The federal government did have some segregation laws which were largely removed by Republican presidents in the period after the Civil War until President Wilson, a Virginia Democrat re-instituted many of them during his administration. However, they were never considered or called 'Jim Crow' laws.

Call them whatever you want. There were still federal-level segregation policies.

 

[LostMarbels]

The 1964 Civil Rights Act tells the story of who voted for what.

Really a moot point after the dems already opposed abolishing slavery, opposed citizenship rights and/or equal protection of the laws for freed slaves and opposed voting rights for all races and colors. (13th-15th Amendments US Constitution)

Were Republicans really the party of civil rights in the 1960s?

Reread what I posted. Did I state they were? Or did I state Sen. Everett Dirksen wrote "numerous pieces of legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which banned discrimination in housing?"

 

[Hank77]

Jim Crow laws were a collection of state and local statutes that legalized racial segregation. Named after an insulting song lyric regarding African Americans, the laws—which existed for about 100 years, from the post-Civil War era until 1968—were meant to return Southern states to an antebellum class structure by marginalizing black Americans. Black communities and individuals that attempted to defy Jim Crow laws often met with violence and death.
https://www.history.com/topics/early-20th-century-us/jim-crow-laws
The federal government did have some segregation laws which were largely removed by Republican presidents in the period after the Civil War until President Wilson, a Virginia Democrat re-instituted many of them during his administration. However, they were never considered or called 'Jim Crow' laws.

Wilson was a confederate state Democrat. Yes there were many Republicans, union Republicans, who supported Civil Rights.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Call them whatever you want. There were still federal-level segregation policies.

Jim Crow laws were different as they operated on the day to day living and activities of AA primarily in the south whereas the federal government primarily discriminated on where AA could work within federal offices sometimes erecting barriers between blacks and whites. Most of the policies were initiated by southern Dept. heads who were appointed and supported in this action by Wilson.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If the goal is to cause even more resentment between the races, reparations are the way to go, especially if you're going to tax one class of people for the benefit of another. People don't like taxes in general and if reparations are going to be a thing, that you are blamed for the actions of your ancestors then you are going to awaken resentment from white people who haven't held slaves or done anything. They won't care for arguments about white privilege either.

 

[Hank77]

Really a moot point after the dems already opposed abolishing slavery, opposed citizenship rights and/or equal protection of the laws for freed slaves and opposed voting rights for all races and colors. (13th-15th Amendments US Constitution)




Reread what I posted. Did I state they were? Or did I state Sen. Everett Dirksen wrote "numerous pieces of legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which banned discrimination in housing?"

"That's right, these were Republicans — not Democrats. But it is democrats that continue to race bait and use political profiling of racial issues."

I heard this argument many times, stated in many different ways. But truth is, it doesn't hold water unless one looks at the actual votes and which states those votes represent.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Edited

 

[LostMarbels]

"That's right, these were Republicans — not Democrats. But it is democrats that continue to race bait and use political profiling of racial issues."

I heard this argument many times, stated in many different ways. But truth is, it doesn't hold water unless one looks at the actual votes and which states those votes represent.

Sorry, but if it wasn't for Republicans passing Constitutional Amendments none of this would even be an issue. The Democrats overwhelmingly cast votes against every topic brought up in this conversation or they outright abstained. There would be no rights for blacks to argue about. If the Democrats had won, and the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were never ratified we wouldn't be having this conversation, because blacks would not yet be emancipated nor have any rights.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Jim Crow laws were different as they operated on the day to day living and activities of AA primarily in the south whereas the federal government primarily discriminated on where AA could work within federal offices sometimes erecting barriers between blacks and whites. Most of the policies were initiated by southern Dept. heads who were appointed and supported in this action by Wilson.

Are you familiar with early FHA guidance on real estate and mortgage practices?

 

[cow451]

You only need to look at party lines to find that answer, not the color of someone's skin.

Only 4 democrats voted for the 13th amendment passed by U.S. Senate with 100% Republican support, 63% Democrat opposition.

June 8, 1866. One hundred percent of Democrats voted against the 14th Amendment.

February 3, 1870. Not a single democrat vote for the 15th Amendment.

Republicans passed all of the Civil Rights laws of the 1860s, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 following the Civil War.

During the later elections of Reconstruction era, beginning in the 1870s, white Democrats used violence by paramilitary groups (KKK et al.), as well as fraud, to suppress black Republican voters and turn Republicans out of office.

The Democratic Party was responsible for passing Jim Crow laws, in addition to Black Civil Codes that forced Americans to utilize separate drinking fountains, swimming pools, and other facilities in the 20th century.

Even Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil Rights Act while in the U.S. Senate. Sen. Al Gore also opposed it.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower, a Republican, appointed Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren who penned the Brown v. Board of Education decision that ended school segregation forever.

It was also a Republican, Sen. Everett Dirksen from Illinois who wrote numerous pieces of legislation including the Civil Rights Act of 1968 which banned discrimination in housing.

It was Republican President Richard M. Nixon who introduced the "Philadelphia Plan" that serves as the blueprint for affirmative action today.

That's right, these were Republicans — not Democrats. But it is democrats that continue to race bait and use political profiling of racial issues.

Republicans also strongly supported the use of carpet bombing in Sherman’s retreat to the sea.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Are you familiar with early FHA guidance on real estate and mortgage practices?

Nope, but something tells me you are about to enlighten me.....which information I will then verify for accuracy. Nothing personal, that is how I learn stuff....I don't just accept something as true because one source 'says so'......

 

[civilwarbuff]

Republicans also strongly supported the use of carpet bombing in Sherman’s retreat to the sea.

You are talking about the 50 mile wide path that he stripped on his march from Atlanta to Savannah? Hmm, I didn't know carpets could be used as bombs during that time....please elaborate.

 

[LostMarbels]

Republicans also strongly supported the use of carpet bombing in Sherman’s retreat to the sea.

Not the topic. Were discussing reparations and/or the idea that some form of compensatory payment needs to be made to the descendants of Africans who had been enslaved as part of the Atlantic Slave Trade.

My contention is that caucasians are not the sole entity responsible. Also I maintain that if we are discussing the wrongs of our descendants, and even ancestors at this point, then it is the descendants of all guilty parties that should pay. Not just me because I so happen to have been born white.

 

[cow451]

You are talking about the 50 mile wide path that he stripped on his march from Atlanta to Savannah? Hmm, I didn't know carpets could be used as bombs during that time....please elaborate.

Never heard of carpet baggers? North Georgia later became the Carpet Capital of the World.

This week in Trump Alternative History:
this week in 1864, Confederate forces were pulling out of Atlanta in order to avoid being obliterated by Sherman’s tanks.

 

[cow451]

Not the topic. Were discussing reparations and/or the idea that some form of compensatory payment needs to be made to the descendants of Africans who had been enslaved as part of the Atlantic Slave Trade.

My contention is that caucasians are not the sole entity responsible. Also I maintain that if we are discussing the wrongs of our descendants, and even ancestors at this point, then it is the descendants of all guilty parties that should pay. Not just me because I so happen to have been born white.

Sounds like alternative facts.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Never heard of carpet baggers? North Georgia later became the Carpet Capital of the World.

Carpetbaggers came after the war was over; you don't think they would risk their necks if there were still Confederate troops on the loose, do you?

 

[LostMarbels]

Sounds like alternative facts.

How so? Care to elucidate?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Sounds like alternative facts.

So are you of the persuasion that Europeans went to Africa and spent their time thrashing around in the jungle looking for black people, who had lived their entire lives there, that they could capture by the tens/hundreds of thousands drag them miles back to the coast and put them on ships to take them to ports across the world to be sold into slavery? Or is it more believable that the vast majority were taken prisoners by other Africans during wars or political disputes or even because the Europeans could provide them with trade goods they could not otherwise obtain while the Europeans sat in relative comfort on the coast waiting for their victims to be brought to them?
Hmmmmm, let me think about that......

 

[Hank77]

Sorry, but if it wasn't for Republicans passing Constitutional Amendments none of this would even be an issue. The Democrats overwhelmingly cast votes against every topic brought up in this conversation or they outright abstained. There would be no rights for blacks to argue about. If the Democrats had won, and the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments were never ratified we wouldn't be having this conversation, because blacks would not yet be emancipated nor have any rights.

That's true. There were many northern Republicans that wrote bills, co-sponsored bills, and voted yes on civil rights but the Democrats you are referring to were Southern Democrats in the Confederate states, not today's Democrats that you are trying to compare them to.
Southern Dems. were against civil rights so today's Dems. are just being disingenuous in their support for minorities.
Show me the voting records for the Acts, Amendments, bills, that you mentioned like I did for the 1964 CR Act.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I've heard of the idea of making college and continuing education fully subsidized for those AA descent. This would seem to have several positives associated with it.

To what end? At what point do we know that reparations are all paid up?